On 09/04/2022 08:01 pm, Mark Carver wrote:

> On 09/04/2022 17:00, JNugent wrote:

>> I sent it back because of the lack of an analogue output.

> Almost everything you buy from now onwards, you'll be sending back then !

It seems so.

But I have a little stash...

In article <uaxjaQCwfcUiFw38@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,
John Hall says...

>
> I imagine that he meant that Sky only offer a package that includes the
> dish as well as the box.
>

Exactly that. I was not even asked if I had internet access during the
ordering process.

--
Ken

Reading the web site I got the impression that the latest Sky Q could also
just use the internet as well, but like many marketing sites, its a little
bamboozling.
Brian

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"Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
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>
> Brian Gaff wrote:
>
>> If you get Sky Q now one assumes that the boxes simply use the internet,
>> or
>> is there an option for a dish as well?
>
> Sky Q uses a dish with a different type of LNB, it has numerous (12?)
> tuners to allow recording, live viewing, multi-room etc, no doubt it uses
> internet for on-demand stuff.
>
> Their dishless product is the "Sky Glass" which is a TV that's internet
> based.

Seems to me then that its not so much locking people in, its the old, now we
have sold everyone an lnb we will make a new type so they all need to buy
one again, its a bit like phones. They are trying to push 5g, when 4g is in
most places just as good.
I remember a few years ago they tried to sell everyone 3D tellies but the
fact that they needed glasses put folk off.
I am surprised that Sky did not build in a sat or freeview into their tvs,
since it would have been minimally more expensive to do so.

They could then have flogged it to people with crap internet.
grin.
Brian

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"Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
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> alan_m wrote:
>
>> Does any other company use the Sky technology, in the way they have
>> implemented it?
>
> Yes, newest FreeSat STBs support wideband (aka Sky Q) LNBs/cabling.

If this is only some control system then one might suspect that the Chinese
would by now have a translator box that can make the new lnb look like the
old one.
Brian

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"alan_m" <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
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> On 09/04/2022 16:49, Andy Burns wrote:
>> alan_m wrote:
>>
>>> Does any other company use the Sky technology, in the way they have
>>> implemented it?
>>
>> Yes, newest FreeSat STBs support wideband (aka Sky Q) LNBs/cabling.
>
> Sky Q LNB have been around some time and it's only recently that some
> Freesat box have been able to support this type of LNB.
>
> The alternative technology allows multiple boxes to have a satellite feed
> by using cheap splitters on the one cable from the LNB.
>
> --
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In article <jbekhoFca73U3@mid.individual.net>,
JNugent <jennings&co@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On 09/04/2022 08:01 pm, Mark Carver wrote:

> > On 09/04/2022 17:00, JNugent wrote:

> >> I sent it back because of the lack of an analogue output.

> > Almost everything you buy from now onwards, you'll be sending back then !

> It seems so.

> But I have a little stash...

Is this so that you can record stuff? If so, why not record digital?
There are ways around the HDMI protection if that's the problem.

Bob.

The only thing that attracts me about Sky is the voice I/O system it has.
Surely if your box does not have an analogue output, you can use the optical
output and one of those el cheapo little interfaces to make the Analogue
video and audio. I only bought an audio one in my position. and that seems
to work on any optical output. There are also hdmi to and from scart and
even onesthat convert to and from vga and analogue audio.
I guess in the end the chips are two a penny these days.
Brian

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"alan_m" <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
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> On 09/04/2022 19:58, Bob Latham wrote:
>> In article <jbdosvF763bU6@mid.individual.net>,
>> JNugent <jennings&co@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>> On 09/04/2022 04:58 pm, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> JNugent wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Technically it *does* allow more concurrent recordings/viewings at
>>>>>> once for just two downleads, doesn't it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Four at once, IIRC
>>>>
>>>> Seems some are dedicated for specific purposes, which seems a bit odd
>>>>
>>>> "The Sky 2TB box has a whooping 12 tuners, this allows four for
>>>> recordings, five for watching live TV including one for your main 2TB
>>>> box, two for your Sky Q mini-boxes, two for mobile devices, one tuner
>>>> is
>>>> used for the mini TV screen that you see within now-and-next mini TV
>>>> guide"
>>>>
>>>> the 1TB box only has 8 tuners.
>>
>>> Perhaps they've upgraded the platform since we had it (over three years
>>> ago).
>>
>>> I thought that recording four at once (so useful for those 9pm
>>> junctions) was pretty good!
>>
>>> I sent it back because of the lack of an analogue output.
>>
>> The current 2TB SkyQ main box can record 5 different things
>> simultaneously as standard. There is a setting (preferences) to
>> sacrifice the mini-screen to increase this to 6. So it is possible to
>> record 6 things at the same time.
>
> My current PVR can record more than 8 simultaneous programs with 2 tuners
> fed from two outputs from a quad universal LNB. The limitation with two
> tuners is that all the channels/programs must be on the same two
> transponders. At the same time I can watch live TV from those transponders
> or watch anything recorded
>
>
>
> --
> mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Yes it is irritating to have to find an add on to run old gear on things,
but that is the way the world makes stuff out of date to sell you more
stuff!
Brian

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"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
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> On 09/04/2022 17:00, JNugent wrote:
>>
>>
>> I sent it back because of the lack of an analogue output.
>>
> Almost everything you buy from now onwards, you'll be sending back then !

But how would the actual non tech punter know to ask in the first place?
I can imagine the language if they decide to cancel only to find none of
their existing freesat things will actually work any more without getting a
man or woman in the change the lnbs.
Brian

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"Unsteadyken" <unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote in message
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> In article <jbdocvF773oU1@mid.individual.net>,
>
> alan_m says...
>
>> You appear to have a wideband sky Q LNB with 4 legacy universal LNB
>> outputs. On a new installation this is not normal unless you ask for it.
>>
> I asked the installer for it and he was happy to comply.
>
>
> --
> Ken

Surely though as earlier in this thread it was stated that it has sockets
for wired networks, than any other comms must in effect be separate and
unseen by the user, a bit like bluetooth or like those wireless keyboards
with proprietary protocols.
Otherwise it would have to pass through your router.
Brian

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"Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
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> JNugent wrote:
>
>> I won't pretend that I know what mesh wi-fi is, but as I said, each
>> mini-box certainly does communicate with the main ("Q") box.
>
> The mesh means that a distant mini-box can "hop" via an intermediate
> mini-box on its way to the main box ...
>

Well if you only have the one main box and one other, one would imagine it
has to be using wifi then. It could I suppose have a built in power adaptor
to use merely for control signals, does anyone know?
Brian

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"Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
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> JNugent wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> The mesh means that a distant mini-box can "hop" via an intermediate
>>> mini-box on its way to the main box ...
>>
>> Ah... thanks. I have two wi-fi boosters placed at strategic points.
>
> Not sure that will help "Q" from what I gather it does its own thing
>
>> I can't remember whether we had two or three of the mini-boxes... ;-)
>

However its done, does the system talk to Sky and let them know ho watches
what, or something? Many systems do that and their excuse is the pay per
view, but I'm blowed if some of the stuff that is pay for view would entice
me at all. I must be a heathen....
Brian

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"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
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> On 09/04/2022 16:52, Andy Burns wrote:
>> JNugent wrote:
>>
>>>> How do the boxes in different rooms communicate?
>>>
>>> Yes, each communicates with the Q box (not with each other as far as I
>>> am aware).
>>
>> I thought Sky Q *did* create its own mesh wifi for the mini-boxes to talk
>> to the main box?
>>
> It does. A 5 GHz network. However, if you connect via wired LAN, they can
> be part of your wider LAN network, your router just assigns the boxes IP
> addresses, just like any other device (or you can manually assign static
> IPs for them) and they chat away to each other, and the main box streams
> its content to the minibox(es)

On 10/04/2022 09:08, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> Reading the web site I got the impression that the latest Sky Q could also
> just use the internet as well, but like many marketing sites, its a little
> bamboozling.
> Brian
>

Any box that allows catch up TV must operate over the Interweb as does
any box that supports random pay for view films etc. Sky Q boxes support
both these modes of operation.

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Brian Gaff wrote:

> does the system talk to Sky and let them know ho watches what, or something?

I would assume so.

On 10/04/2022 09:41, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> However its done, does the system talk to Sky and let them know ho watches
> what, or something?

The sky Q box interfaces to the inbuilt camera in your TV and transmits
the picture back to sky. From this information Sky knows how many people
are watching.

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On Sat, 9 Apr 2022 23:22:55 +0100, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>My current PVR can record more than 8 simultaneous programs with 2
>tuners fed from two outputs from a quad universal LNB. The limitation
>with two tuners is that all the channels/programs must be on the same
>two transponders. At the same time I can watch live TV from those
>transponders or watch anything recorded

Every time you do this you'll have 8 or more hours of recordings,
which would probably take you a day to watch even if you set aside a
day to do nothing else. What's the point of a machine that collects
more material than you can watch?

My Freeview machine can only record two things at once, but even with
that limitation the recordings were piling up faster than I could find
the time to watch them, which is why on December 31st I decided to
wipe the disk and not record any more, and literally haven't switched
it on this year. I haven't missed it at all. I have thousands of hours
of material available via the internet, but it's all handled by
somebody else's machinery so I don't have to worry about it, and
anything I don't want is much easier to ignore.

Rod.

In article <e8855h1rlo6rh24buncqc7b1iqq8j2us5e@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> Every time you do this you'll have 8 or more hours of recordings,
> which would probably take you a day to watch even if you set aside a
> day to do nothing else. What's the point of a machine that collects
> more material than you can watch?

Hang on, there is a big difference in discussing what various boxes
can do and talking about maxing them out night after night. We got
our Q box last June, I can tell you my wife records her soaps and
murder mysteries and art programmes, I record car programmes,
science, music programmes and F1. I have seen the box recording 4
things at once maybe 5 but far from every night, there's not that
much good stuff on the box. However, it does largely stop the
recording clash problems we kept running into with the previous box.

It's not that there is loads to record, it's that it's all on a the
evening peak time.

Bob.

In article <jbfjmoFhs1cU1@mid.individual.net>,
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On 10/04/2022 09:08, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

> > Reading the web site I got the impression that the latest Sky Q
> > could also just use the internet as well, but like many marketing
> > sites, its a little bamboozling. Brian
> >

> Any box that allows catch up TV must operate over the Interweb as
> does any box that supports random pay for view films etc. Sky Q
> boxes support both these modes of operation.

Sky Glass, the TV doesn't use a dish, it operates entirely from the
Internet unless there's a tv aerial socket, I've not checked that out.

Normal SkyQ still uses a dish and does downloads from the interweb.

I've heard there is another Sky Q box that like I heard thatSky Glass
doesn't have a dish but I've not seen one yet. Last I heard they were
on test in Germany. Things may have progressed further since I heard
that.

Bob.

Bob Latham wrote:

> Sky Glass, the TV doesn't use a dish, it operates entirely from the
> Internet unless there's a tv aerial socket, I've not checked that out.

Surprisingly, there is an aerial input.

> At one time you could replace a sky box with any other box to
> receive non-subcription services ... until the sky Q LNB.

The wideband Sky Q LNB works with all satellite receivers, at least mine does
since it feeds my 15 years old Humax Foxsat and the Sky Q box.

But non-Sky receivers with more than two tuners are rare, little innovation in
satellite in the last 15 years, except for Sky.

One major difference with Sky Q is that you don't own the equipment, it is
loaned for the duration of your contract and I guess that includes the dish,
Sky replaced my old one with new, think it is actually a six way, I have two
dishes.

Sky Q communicates with it's remote Mini boxes over 5GHz wifi, independently of
any other wifi you have, but they have ethernet sockets as well if you want a
more reliable connection. If you have Sky Broadband as well, all Sky Q boxes
become mesh repeaters.

Angus

On 10/04/2022 10:36, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Apr 2022 23:22:55 +0100, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> My current PVR can record more than 8 simultaneous programs with 2
>> tuners fed from two outputs from a quad universal LNB. The limitation
>> with two tuners is that all the channels/programs must be on the same
>> two transponders. At the same time I can watch live TV from those
>> transponders or watch anything recorded
>
> Every time you do this you'll have 8 or more hours of recordings,
> which would probably take you a day to watch even if you set aside a
> day to do nothing else. What's the point of a machine that collects
> more material than you can watch?
>
> My Freeview machine can only record two things at once, but even with
> that limitation the recordings were piling up faster than I could find
> the time to watch them, which is why on December 31st I decided to
> wipe the disk and not record any more, and literally haven't switched
> it on this year. I haven't missed it at all. I have thousands of hours
> of material available via the internet, but it's all handled by
> somebody else's machinery so I don't have to worry about it, and
> anything I don't want is much easier to ignore.

True, but due to Rights/Licensing issues, not everything is available on
iPlayer, etc. So if you really want to watch something, it's worth
recording it.

Also, if, for example, on BBC when a programme is about to start they
say "also available on iPlayer", then you're ok. If they don't, it won't
be clear whether or not it will be available to stream. Perhaps that
should be the next step for programme guides.

--

Jeff

On Saturday, 9 April 2022 at 13:14:26 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
> R. Mark Clayton wrote:
> > Andy Burns wrote:
> >
> >> Sky Q uses a dish with a different type of LNB,
> >
> > This is anti-competitive practice to lock customers in by $ky. There is NO technical reason for it.
> Technically it *does* allow more concurrent recordings/viewings at once for just
> two downleads, doesn't it?

Technically, so does my quad LNB and four downleads, but essentially it is a lock in - does anyone non $ky supply receivers that use this method?

>
> It's not a sky proprietary type of LNB, but certainly it's far less common on
> non-Sky equipment.

Perhaps, but the fibre type is a better solution (one fibre, one power cable), albeit expensive (or I would have upgraded to it).

Fibre probably too 'difficult' for $ky engineers to install.

On 10/04/2022 09:08 am, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

> Reading the web site I got the impression that the latest Sky Q could also
> just use the internet as well, but like many marketing sites, its a little
> bamboozling.

I'm sure it can (it gets YouTube, for instance). But even an Amazon Fire
stick has a browser built in.

On 10/04/2022 09:16 am, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <jbekhoFca73U3@mid.individual.net>,
> JNugent <jennings&co@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> On 09/04/2022 08:01 pm, Mark Carver wrote:
>
>>> On 09/04/2022 17:00, JNugent wrote:
>
>>>> I sent it back because of the lack of an analogue output.
>
>>> Almost everything you buy from now onwards, you'll be sending back then !
>
>> It seems so.
>
>> But I have a little stash...
>
> Is this so that you can record stuff? If so, why not record digital?
> There are ways around the HDMI protection if that's the problem.

I tried that with the Q box. But the HDMI out was part-scrambled. It
worked OK for a week then stopped working.

I do have a device for doing what you suggest, but haven't yet got round
to trying it.

On 10/04/2022 12:05, Angus Robertson - Magenta Systems Ltd wrote:
>> At one time you could replace a sky box with any other box to
>> receive non-subcription services ... until the sky Q LNB.
>
> The wideband Sky Q LNB works with all satellite receivers, at least mine does
> since it feeds my 15 years old Humax Foxsat and the Sky Q box.

Do you have a sky Q LNB with extra legacy universal LNB outputs or is it
just a sky Q LNB with the two wideband outputs? I suspect the former as
the designer of a 15 year old box would have required a crystal ball to
support Sky Q wideband.

>
> But non-Sky receivers with more than two tuners are rare, little innovation in
> satellite in the last 15 years, except for Sky.

No, unicable LNBs and FBC tuners have been around as long as Sky Q

I've had 4 tuners in a (non sky) box for the past 7 years.

My 7 year old box is stll in use and can be linked to slave boxes via
wi-fi so the slave boxes can use one of the tuners, EPG and anything
recorded on the hard disk. I can view live TV or recordings on my laptop
or phone etc. The same capability can be achieved on boxes from a dozen
different manufacturers.

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