According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>In message <gd3geh5k0qjbcgmduvbg08mk71arh2jl09@4ax.com>, at 10:32:19 on
>Mon, 1 Aug 2022, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:
>>On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 10:59:42 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>The longest charter trip was 350 miles each way across the USA.
>>
>>Presumed 3,500 miles... 350 is a Sunday afternoon's jaunt in NA?
>
>It felt like it took most of the day. Google Maps says 6hrs, and that's
>without lunch breaks.

If you know of a way to get across the US in under a day without flying,
I know a lot of people who would like to talk to you.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

On 01/08/2022 20:56, John Levine wrote:
> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>> In message <gd3geh5k0qjbcgmduvbg08mk71arh2jl09@4ax.com>, at 10:32:19 on
>> Mon, 1 Aug 2022, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:
>>> On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 10:59:42 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The longest charter trip was 350 miles each way across the USA.
>>>
>>> Presumed 3,500 miles... 350 is a Sunday afternoon's jaunt in NA?
>>
>> It felt like it took most of the day. Google Maps says 6hrs, and that's
>> without lunch breaks.
>
> If you know of a way to get across the US in under a day without flying,
> I know a lot of people who would like to talk to you.
>

Speak to that nice Mr Musk…

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 01/08/2022 20:56, John Levine wrote:
> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>> In message <gd3geh5k0qjbcgmduvbg08mk71arh2jl09@4ax.com>, at 10:32:19 on
>> Mon, 1 Aug 2022, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:
>>> On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 10:59:42 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The longest charter trip was 350 miles each way across the USA.
>>>
>>> Presumed 3,500 miles... 350 is a Sunday afternoon's jaunt in NA?
>>
>> It felt like it took most of the day. Google Maps says 6hrs, and that's
>> without lunch breaks.
>
> If you know of a way to get across the US in under a day without flying,
> I know a lot of people who would like to talk to you.

trippy.com claims that driving (presumably in a car) from San Diego to
Houston takes 20 hours, 44 minutes.

On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 20:06:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <gd3geh5k0qjbcgmduvbg08mk71arh2jl09@4ax.com>, at 10:32:19 on
>Mon, 1 Aug 2022, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:
>>On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 10:59:42 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>The longest charter trip was 350 miles each way across the USA.
>>
>>Presumed 3,500 miles... 350 is a Sunday afternoon's jaunt in NA?
>
>It felt like it took most of the day. Google Maps says 6hrs, and that's
>without lunch breaks.

In heavy traffic, six hours would fit Vancouver, BC to Portland, OR at
~320 miles.

But we were expected to deduce that your "350 miles each way across
the USA" was a mere local excursion within the Excited States, rather
than use of the preposition to describe the extent of approximately
coast-to-coast.

Mind you, I've travelled by rail from the Pacific to the Atlantic
(well, technically the Caribbean) in about an hour...

On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 16:17:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <tc8q4u$vv5i$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:06:10 on Mon, 1 Aug
>2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>On 01/08/2022 10:40, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <dp3feh5jsa7hqsqkjkc6u92jd7c3ep18r1@4ax.com>, at 09:39:34
>>>on Mon, 1 Aug 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>remarked:
>>>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:22:08 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <tc5mhq$9f52$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:46:20 on Sun, 31 Jul
>>>>> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On 31/07/2022 09:18, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <tc56sl$5fpu$2@dont-email.me>, at 07:19:01 on Sun, 31 Jul
>>>>>>> 2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 31/07/2022 06:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Fares are famously not "per mile", and lines such as the ECML
>>>>>>>>>are a cash
>>>>>>>>> cow used to cross-subsidise loss-making routes (of which ironically
>>>>>>>>> Scotrail has a rather large number).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And the buses and coaches in Scotland are free to many people if
>>>>>>>> they  have an 'Entitlement Card'.
>>>>>>>  The same is true of buses in England (I would have had a free trip
>>>>>>> last  weekend, rather than having to fork out for a rail ticket, had
>>>>>>> the bus  company not been on strike). Like the OP, the time was about
>>>>>>> the same,  and the bus was hourly (whereas the train much lumpier,
>>>>>>> with some 2hr  gaps during the day), and would have saved me a 40
>>>>>>> minute walk to the  railway station.
>>>>>>>  What's slightly less clear is what is included, in the way of
>>>>>>> "express  coaches". Are the Scottish entitlement cards really accepted
>>>>>>> by National  Express, for example? In England we have various "X"
>>>>>>> routes, operated by  local bus companies, and sometimes they have what
>>>>>>> looks a lot like coaches.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Your National Entitlement Card gives you free travel throughout
>>>>>> Scotland on nearly all local registered and long-distance scheduled bus
>>>>>> services. Only a few services, such as premium-fare night buses and
>>>>>> City Sightseeing buses, do not accept the card."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.transport.gov.scot/concessionary-travel/60plus-or-disabled/
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps a few commas would clarify exactly what they are saying.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is National Express any (or all, that's not clear either):
>>>>>
>>>>> Local
>>>>
>>>> https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/67/section/2
>>>> The underlying measure is that you haven't got stops within 15 miles
>>>> of each other. Other "ifs and buts" apply.
>>> I wonder if the 1985 Act is the one which brought in the Entitlement
>>>Cards. Or is the definition of "local" in this instance for the
>>>purposes of signs saying "Bus lane - local buses only"?
>>> The Megabus in Scotland that I mentioned yesterday isn't "local"
>>>most of the way, because it stops only at Aberdeen, Perth (87 miles),
>>>Stirling (34 miles); then Cumbernauld and Glasgow both around 13 miles.
>>>
>>>>> Registered
>>>>> Scheduled
>>>>> Bus
>>
>>The 1985 Act has many exceptions referring out to Scottish legislation
>>so unclear whether the "local" definitions are relevant north of the
>>border
>
>Relevant to *what* though? Signs saying "No entry except local buses",
>
From the 2002 TSRGDs :-
"local bus" means a public service vehicle used for the provision of a
local service not being an excursion or tour;

"excursion or tour" has the meaning given in section 137(1) of the
Transport Act 1985
-"excursion or tour” means a service for the carriage of passengers
by road at separate fares on which the passengers travel together
on a journey, with or without breaks, from one or more places to
one or more other places and back;
[You might have some fun with that one?]

"local service" has the meaning given in section 2 of the Transport
Act 1985;
[see previous]

>or the T&C of the Scottish Entitlement Card scheme?
>
>>- I am NOT a lawyer, and neither is Roland!
>
>Actually I do consider myself a lawyer, even if not a solicitor or
>barrister. I have for example drafted several laws (sometimes the whole
>thing, or more often just a few essential paragraphs).
>
>>250 odd references to Scotland in the Act as a whole!
>>

On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 10:40:48 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <dp3feh5jsa7hqsqkjkc6u92jd7c3ep18r1@4ax.com>, at 09:39:34 on
>Mon, 1 Aug 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:22:08 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <tc5mhq$9f52$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:46:20 on Sun, 31 Jul
>>>2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>On 31/07/2022 09:18, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <tc56sl$5fpu$2@dont-email.me>, at 07:19:01 on Sun, 31 Jul
>>>>>2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>>>> On 31/07/2022 06:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> Fares are famously not "per mile", and lines such as the ECML are a cash
>>>>>>> cow used to cross-subsidise loss-making routes (of which ironically
>>>>>>> Scotrail has a rather large number).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the buses and coaches in Scotland are free to many people if
>>>>>>they have an 'Entitlement Card'.
>>>>> The same is true of buses in England (I would have had a free trip
>>>>>last weekend, rather than having to fork out for a rail ticket, had
>>>>>the bus company not been on strike). Like the OP, the time was about
>>>>>the same, and the bus was hourly (whereas the train much lumpier,
>>>>>with some 2hr gaps during the day), and would have saved me a 40
>>>>>minute walk to the railway station.
>>>>> What's slightly less clear is what is included, in the way of
>>>>>"express coaches". Are the Scottish entitlement cards really accepted
>>>>>by National Express, for example? In England we have various "X"
>>>>>routes, operated by local bus companies, and sometimes they have what
>>>>>looks a lot like coaches.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Your National Entitlement Card gives you free travel throughout
>>>>Scotland on nearly all local registered and long-distance scheduled bus
>>>>services. Only a few services, such as premium-fare night buses and
>>>>City Sightseeing buses, do not accept the card."
>>>>
>>>>https://www.transport.gov.scot/concessionary-travel/60plus-or-disabled/
>>>
>>>Perhaps a few commas would clarify exactly what they are saying.
>>>
>>>Is National Express any (or all, that's not clear either):
>>>
>>>Local
>>
>>https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/67/section/2
>>The underlying measure is that you haven't got stops within 15 miles
>>of each other. Other "ifs and buts" apply.
>
>I wonder if the 1985 Act is the one which brought in the Entitlement
>Cards.
>
s.40 Transport (Scotland) Act 2005 according to Wonkypaedia -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Entitlement_Card

>Or is the definition of "local" in this instance for the purposes
>of signs saying "Bus lane - local buses only"?
>
>The Megabus in Scotland that I mentioned yesterday isn't "local" most of
>the way, because it stops only at Aberdeen, Perth (87 miles), Stirling
>(34 miles); then Cumbernauld and Glasgow both around 13 miles.
>
Those latter two would seem to change it to a local bus.
ISTR there used to be some Western SMT services running between
Largs(?) and Glasgow which ran non-stop between Port Glasgow or
Greenock and Glasgow (~23-25m) but stopped everywhere at the western
end.

>>>Registered
>>>Scheduled
>>>Bus

On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 19:36:36 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 01/08/2022 17:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>> Would such a taxi ever be able to use a lane marked "Local buses only"?
>
>I doubt there are many bus lanes in the areas where they operate!
>
Where there are, they would probably be also designated for taxis
anyway. Strictly buses only tends to be for against the flow bus lanes
and also private roads into stations and garages where most general
traffic legislation doesn't apply.

>Dial-a-Bus
>
>https://www.highland.gov.uk/downloads/download/141/dial-a-bus

On 02/08/2022 03:33, Charles Ellson wrote:
> Where there are, they would probably be also designated for taxis
> anyway. Strictly buses only tends to be for against the flow bus lanes
> and also private roads into stations and garages where most general
> traffic legislation doesn't apply.

I think it has come with people who have used a London taxi as a private
vehicle and claimed that being a "taxi" has given them access to some of
these places.

The most famous owner of one was Prince Philip but others have used them
as a private car.

In message <tc9b5a$3ui$2@gal.iecc.com>, at 19:56:26 on Mon, 1 Aug 2022,
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> remarked:
>According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>In message <gd3geh5k0qjbcgmduvbg08mk71arh2jl09@4ax.com>, at 10:32:19 on
>>Mon, 1 Aug 2022, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:
>>>On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 10:59:42 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>The longest charter trip was 350 miles each way across the USA.
>>>
>>>Presumed 3,500 miles... 350 is a Sunday afternoon's jaunt in NA?
>>
>>It felt like it took most of the day. Google Maps says 6hrs, and that's
>>without lunch breaks.
>
>If you know of a way to get across the US in under a day without flying,
>I know a lot of people who would like to talk to you.

I've met people in Orlando who claimed to have driven down from Chicago
in a day (if that counts as "across"). In shifts.

18hrs/1200 miles says Google. That's a fairly ambitious 67mph average.
--
Roland Perry

In message <hjsgehlth6on8ffqmq8o6egauf0bvfnn2d@4ax.com>, at 18:20:44 on
Mon, 1 Aug 2022, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:
>On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 20:06:47 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <gd3geh5k0qjbcgmduvbg08mk71arh2jl09@4ax.com>, at 10:32:19 on
>>Mon, 1 Aug 2022, Nobody <jock@soccer.com> remarked:
>>>On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 10:59:42 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>The longest charter trip was 350 miles each way across the USA.
>>>
>>>Presumed 3,500 miles... 350 is a Sunday afternoon's jaunt in NA?
>>
>>It felt like it took most of the day. Google Maps says 6hrs, and that's
>>without lunch breaks.
>
>In heavy traffic, six hours would fit Vancouver, BC to Portland, OR at
>~320 miles.
>
>But we were expected to deduce that your "350 miles each way across
>the USA" was a mere local excursion within the Excited States, rather
>than use of the preposition to describe the extent of approximately
>coast-to-coast.

Over-reading I'm afraid. "Across the USA" simply means "within the USA",
not "all the way across".
--
Roland Perry

In message <ru2heh5oqqmv4k1lfj9onssvsd3knq2e6n@4ax.com>, at 03:33:07 on
Tue, 2 Aug 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 19:36:36 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>On 01/08/2022 17:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> Would such a taxi ever be able to use a lane marked "Local buses only"?
>>
>>I doubt there are many bus lanes in the areas where they operate!
>>
>Where there are, they would probably be also designated for taxis
>anyway.

I disagree. For a lane to be restricted in such a way usually means "we
really, really, don't want anything other than local stage buses taking
this short-cut".

--
Roland Perry

In message <tcac5d$1a0cr$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:19:40 on Tue, 2 Aug
2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>On 02/08/2022 03:33, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> Where there are, they would probably be also designated for taxis
>> anyway. Strictly buses only tends to be for against the flow bus lanes
>> and also private roads into stations and garages where most general
>> traffic legislation doesn't apply.
>
>I think it has come with people who have used a London taxi as a
>private vehicle and claimed that being a "taxi" has given them access
>to some of these places.

Also tourist cities, where some of the least welcome vehicles are tour
coaches. Sometimes the sheer number, but also the way they block the
road/lane for ages while fifty OPs get on or off.
--
Roland Perry

On 02/08/2022 07:36, Roland Perry wrote:
> Also tourist cities, where some of the least welcome vehicles are tour
> coaches. Sometimes the sheer number, but also the way they block the
> road/lane for ages while fifty OPs get on or off.

Most of the places that I see, have designate areas for dropping off the
passengers though I don't know what happens if they start unloading
somewhere else.

They quite often unload in a car park because it makes it easier for the
passengers to find the coach again when time to move on.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <ru2heh5oqqmv4k1lfj9onssvsd3knq2e6n@4ax.com>, at 03:33:07 on
> Tue, 2 Aug 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>> On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 19:36:36 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/08/2022 17:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> Would such a taxi ever be able to use a lane marked "Local buses only"?
>>>
>>> I doubt there are many bus lanes in the areas where they operate!
>>>
>> Where there are, they would probably be also designated for taxis
>> anyway.
>
> I disagree. For a lane to be restricted in such a way usually means "we
> really, really, don't want anything other than local stage buses taking
> this short-cut".
>

Round here it's common for bus lane signs to be "bus cycle motorbike and
taxi only". And with-flow time restricted, and used mostly for parking
outwith the indicated times.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 02/08/2022 03:33, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> Where there are, they would probably be also designated for taxis
>> anyway. Strictly buses only tends to be for against the flow bus lanes
>> and also private roads into stations and garages where most general
>> traffic legislation doesn't apply.
>
> I think it has come with people who have used a London taxi as a private
> vehicle and claimed that being a "taxi" has given them access to some of
> these places.
>
> The most famous owner of one was Prince Philip but others have used them
> as a private car.
>

Yes, but being taxi-shaped doesn't give them taxi-privileges, unless they
are available for hire and comply with all the other taxi rules (onerous in
London).

On 1 Aug 2022 09:29:51 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I just go with the rail, when and where I can. I have travelled on
>>>>> long-distance coach, and it was not fun.
>>
>>>> Indeed; despite all the cost savings, there is a major drawback to
>>>> travelling by coach and that is that you have to travel by coach.
>>>> Lew
>>> Hear, hear.
>>
>> Back when I was a student, I didn't find it that bad. I certainly didn't
>> have the funds to travel by rail instead.
>
>We hadn’t used a coach for years till this June when we returned to
>Heathrow and had to get from there to as close as possible to home where a
>neighbour could collect us.
>Having been away for four weeks we had more luggage than we would normally
>have and I did not relish lugging onto a train.
>Train option would have been rail link to Woking and the SWR to Salisbury
>or though I did not investigate it possibly via train from Heathrow to
>access the GWR line and travel via Reading- Basingstoke or maybe Westbury
>to Salisbury , either way it would have involved faffing around with
>changes and heaving luggage.
>In contrast the National Express Bournemouth service picked us up at just
>outside the terminal and the driver placed the luggage in the compartment
>and then via a brief stops at Winchester Park and Ride and Southampton
>onto our alighting point at Ringwood where our neighbours car was legally
>parked about 30 yards away.
>Journey time was 2 hours 15 min . The journey time for the rail air link
>to Woking is 40 mins and Woking to Salisbury 57mins so one Hour 37 minutes
>of travelling time but you need to add on time changing between modes at
>Woking so overall not a great difference. and the Coach with its luggage
>hold and point to point journey was far more convenient.
>I found the experience far better than I anticipated and much more pleasant
>than when I last used a coach to get somewhere to somewhere else a few
>decades ago, we have been on coaches for days out such as Hampton Court
>flower show but such days out tend not to have the urgency of day to day
>travel.
>
>GH
I posted something similar recently. I live near Stansted and it's a
bit of pain getting to Heathrow. We normally use the train and
Picadilly Line but tried the NX last time. It was comfortable and
convenient.
OK, our coach was delayed by 40 minutes on its way to Stansted but
they put us on another one, minimising the delay. Not that it mattered
as we were staying at LHR overnight, and it's not as if the rail route
is always trouble free. On the previous trip we were booted off at
Northfields and told to take a service bus to Ealing Broadway for the
Heathrow Connect.

On 02/08/2022 09:36, Recliner wrote:
> Yes, but being taxi-shaped doesn't give them taxi-privileges, unless they
> are available for hire and comply with all the other taxi rules (onerous in
> London).

Depends what the rules, law or notice say.

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 02/08/2022 09:36, Recliner wrote:
>> Yes, but being taxi-shaped doesn't give them taxi-privileges, unless they
>> are available for hire and comply with all the other taxi rules (onerous in
>> London).
>
> Depends what the rules, law or notice say.
>

Just being taxi-shaped doesn't turn it into a taxi. Unless it's a licensed
taxi, it doesn't get any taxi privileges.

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On 1 Aug 2022 09:29:51 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just go with the rail, when and where I can. I have travelled on
>>>>>> long-distance coach, and it was not fun.
>>>
>>>>> Indeed; despite all the cost savings, there is a major drawback to
>>>>> travelling by coach and that is that you have to travel by coach.
>>>>> Lew
>>>> Hear, hear.
>>>
>>> Back when I was a student, I didn't find it that bad. I certainly didn't
>>> have the funds to travel by rail instead.
>>
>> We hadn’t used a coach for years till this June when we returned to
>> Heathrow and had to get from there to as close as possible to home where a
>> neighbour could collect us.
>> Having been away for four weeks we had more luggage than we would normally
>> have and I did not relish lugging onto a train.
>> Train option would have been rail link to Woking and the SWR to Salisbury
>> or though I did not investigate it possibly via train from Heathrow to
>> access the GWR line and travel via Reading- Basingstoke or maybe Westbury
>> to Salisbury , either way it would have involved faffing around with
>> changes and heaving luggage.
>> In contrast the National Express Bournemouth service picked us up at just
>> outside the terminal and the driver placed the luggage in the compartment
>> and then via a brief stops at Winchester Park and Ride and Southampton
>> onto our alighting point at Ringwood where our neighbours car was legally
>> parked about 30 yards away.
>> Journey time was 2 hours 15 min . The journey time for the rail air link
>> to Woking is 40 mins and Woking to Salisbury 57mins so one Hour 37 minutes
>> of travelling time but you need to add on time changing between modes at
>> Woking so overall not a great difference. and the Coach with its luggage
>> hold and point to point journey was far more convenient.
>> I found the experience far better than I anticipated and much more pleasant
>> than when I last used a coach to get somewhere to somewhere else a few
>> decades ago, we have been on coaches for days out such as Hampton Court
>> flower show but such days out tend not to have the urgency of day to day
>> travel.
>>
>> GH
> I posted something similar recently. I live near Stansted and it's a
> bit of pain getting to Heathrow. We normally use the train and
> Picadilly Line but tried the NX last time. It was comfortable and
> convenient.
> OK, our coach was delayed by 40 minutes on its way to Stansted but
> they put us on another one, minimising the delay. Not that it mattered
> as we were staying at LHR overnight, and it's not as if the rail route
> is always trouble free. On the previous trip we were booted off at
> Northfields and told to take a service bus to Ealing Broadway for the
> Heathrow Connect.
>

Next time it'll be just one change for you, onto the Elizabeth Line!
(Assuming they've fixed the lift at Liverpool Street by then)

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 02/08/2022 03:33, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>> Where there are, they would probably be also designated for taxis
>>> anyway. Strictly buses only tends to be for against the flow bus lanes
>>> and also private roads into stations and garages where most general
>>> traffic legislation doesn't apply.
>>
>> I think it has come with people who have used a London taxi as a private
>> vehicle and claimed that being a "taxi" has given them access to some of
>> these places.
>>
>> The most famous owner of one was Prince Philip but others have used them
>> as a private car.
>>
>
> Yes, but being taxi-shaped doesn't give them taxi-privileges, unless they
> are available for hire and comply with all the other taxi rules (onerous in
> London).
>
>

Just the shape was probably enough years ago to get away with it most of
the time.
Now with streets populated with cameras that can be used to check the
registration of a vehicle,its insurance status and what it is actually
registered as someone attempting to fool the authorities
risks being caught far more than in the past.

GH

In message <tcange$1cp4l$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:33:18 on Tue, 2 Aug
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <ru2heh5oqqmv4k1lfj9onssvsd3knq2e6n@4ax.com>, at 03:33:07 on
>> Tue, 2 Aug 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>> On Mon, 1 Aug 2022 19:36:36 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/08/2022 17:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> Would such a taxi ever be able to use a lane marked "Local buses only"?
>>>>
>>>> I doubt there are many bus lanes in the areas where they operate!
>>>>
>>> Where there are, they would probably be also designated for taxis
>>> anyway.
>>
>> I disagree. For a lane to be restricted in such a way usually means "we
>> really, really, don't want anything other than local stage buses taking
>> this short-cut".
>
>Round here it's common for bus lane signs to be "bus cycle motorbike and
>taxi only".

It varies a lot. In central Nottingham the lanes include taxis, and they
have unofficial plates below saying "Taxi means Hackney". Although all
the private hire vehicles ignore it, of course.

Not sure I'm familiar with any that include cycles and motorbikes.
Surely a stage bus held up behind a 10mph cyclist (mindful of recent
changes to Highway Code about the amount of space required to overtake)
isn't something to be encouraged?

>And with-flow time restricted, and used mostly for parking outwith the
>indicated times.

Not familiar with that concept either. And limited-hours bus lanes must
be one of the worst-signed aspects of driving today. I simply don't
trust them, and for a visitor they are hard to see, often being
displayed at some of the most over-street-furnitured and chaotic
locations.

Best strategy is to assume they are 24x7. In Chester last week I
encountered several bus lanes, and was surprised to see half a mile into
one a very small sign on a post saying "Bus lane suspended". How do I
know that sign is still current? There's some signage near were I live
saying the road is going to be closed for a week - back in June!
--
Roland Perry

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 02/08/2022 03:33, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>> Where there are, they would probably be also designated for taxis
>>>> anyway. Strictly buses only tends to be for against the flow bus lanes
>>>> and also private roads into stations and garages where most general
>>>> traffic legislation doesn't apply.
>>>
>>> I think it has come with people who have used a London taxi as a private
>>> vehicle and claimed that being a "taxi" has given them access to some of
>>> these places.
>>>
>>> The most famous owner of one was Prince Philip but others have used them
>>> as a private car.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, but being taxi-shaped doesn't give them taxi-privileges, unless they
>> are available for hire and comply with all the other taxi rules (onerous in
>> London).
>>
>>
>
> Just the shape was probably enough years ago to get away with it most of
> the time.
> Now with streets populated with cameras that can be used to check the
> registration of a vehicle,its insurance status and what it is actually
> registered as someone attempting to fool the authorities
> risks being caught far more than in the past.
>

I think bus lane cameras photograph every vehicle in the lane, and the ANPR
computers identify any not licensed to use the lane.

I imagine that a rich person could own a fully licensed cab, with a
licensed driver, but have it always available for their own use whenever
they might want it. It would only be available for public use at times when
the owner had no need to use it (eg, when away), or perhaps never, if that
was possible. It would be in effect their private, chauffeur-driven car,
able to use bus lanes to get through traffic.

For sure, of course, normal cabbies would report it to the taxi licensing
authorities, so the owner would have to be very careful to comply with all
the rules.

In message <tcaj4i$1bmjo$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:18:41 on Tue, 2 Aug
2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>On 02/08/2022 07:36, Roland Perry wrote:
>> Also tourist cities, where some of the least welcome vehicles are tour
>> coaches. Sometimes the sheer number, but also the way they block the
>> road/lane for ages while fifty OPs get on or off.
>
>Most of the places that I see, have designate areas for dropping off
>the passengers though I don't know what happens if they start unloading
>somewhere else.

That's because they don't want the tour coaches stopping in the bus
lanes.

>They quite often unload in a car park because it makes it easier for
>the passengers to find the coach again when time to move on.

As long as there *is* a car park within hobbling distance of the
historic city centre in question. Let alone one whose layout makes it
suitable for coaches.

This one clearly isn't: https://goo.gl/maps/iZQJCB6AUvNzSAGXA

But we do have: https://goo.gl/maps/P8jjJLEUmbm84FJv6 strange looking
coach, as is: https://goo.gl/maps/VWQoME9TgqUQJuXg6

Where do the genuine coaches go the rest of the day? (Answers on a
postcard).

--
Roland Perry

In message <tcanma$1cqku$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:36:26 on Tue, 2 Aug
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 02/08/2022 03:33, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>> Where there are, they would probably be also designated for taxis
>>> anyway. Strictly buses only tends to be for against the flow bus lanes
>>> and also private roads into stations and garages where most general
>>> traffic legislation doesn't apply.
>>
>> I think it has come with people who have used a London taxi as a private
>> vehicle and claimed that being a "taxi" has given them access to some of
>> these places.
>>
>> The most famous owner of one was Prince Philip but others have used them
>> as a private car.
>
>Yes, but being taxi-shaped doesn't give them taxi-privileges, unless they
>are available for hire and comply with all the other taxi rules (onerous in
>London).

Is it your opinion that such a taxi has to be a hackney, or does a
private hire (Uber or whatever) count, and if so does it requires a
fare paying passenger on board at the time, rather than one driving
around randomly trying to be near potential "surge pricing" customers?
--
Roland Perry

In message <tcascb$1e0ki$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:56:27 on Tue, 2 Aug
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On 1 Aug 2022 09:29:51 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just go with the rail, when and where I can. I have travelled on
>>>>>>> long-distance coach, and it was not fun.
>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed; despite all the cost savings, there is a major drawback to
>>>>>> travelling by coach and that is that you have to travel by coach.
>>>>>> Lew
>>>>> Hear, hear.
>>>>
>>>> Back when I was a student, I didn't find it that bad. I certainly didn't
>>>> have the funds to travel by rail instead.
>>>
>>> We hadn’t used a coach for years till this June when we returned to
>>> Heathrow and had to get from there to as close as possible to home where a
>>> neighbour could collect us.
>>> Having been away for four weeks we had more luggage than we would normally
>>> have and I did not relish lugging onto a train.
>>> Train option would have been rail link to Woking and the SWR to Salisbury
>>> or though I did not investigate it possibly via train from Heathrow to
>>> access the GWR line and travel via Reading- Basingstoke or maybe Westbury
>>> to Salisbury , either way it would have involved faffing around with
>>> changes and heaving luggage.
>>> In contrast the National Express Bournemouth service picked us up at just
>>> outside the terminal and the driver placed the luggage in the compartment
>>> and then via a brief stops at Winchester Park and Ride and Southampton
>>> onto our alighting point at Ringwood where our neighbours car was legally
>>> parked about 30 yards away.
>>> Journey time was 2 hours 15 min . The journey time for the rail air link
>>> to Woking is 40 mins and Woking to Salisbury 57mins so one Hour 37 minutes
>>> of travelling time but you need to add on time changing between modes at
>>> Woking so overall not a great difference. and the Coach with its luggage
>>> hold and point to point journey was far more convenient.
>>> I found the experience far better than I anticipated and much more pleasant
>>> than when I last used a coach to get somewhere to somewhere else a few
>>> decades ago, we have been on coaches for days out such as Hampton Court
>>> flower show but such days out tend not to have the urgency of day to day
>>> travel.
>>>
>>> GH
>> I posted something similar recently. I live near Stansted and it's a
>> bit of pain getting to Heathrow. We normally use the train and
>> Picadilly Line but tried the NX last time. It was comfortable and
>> convenient.
>> OK, our coach was delayed by 40 minutes on its way to Stansted but
>> they put us on another one, minimising the delay. Not that it mattered
>> as we were staying at LHR overnight, and it's not as if the rail route
>> is always trouble free. On the previous trip we were booted off at
>> Northfields and told to take a service bus to Ealing Broadway for the
>> Heathrow Connect.
>
>Next time it'll be just one change for you, onto the Elizabeth Line!
>(Assuming they've fixed the lift at Liverpool Street by then)

I must have missed the introduction of through-running at Paddington.
When did that start?
--
Roland Perry