I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
Passengers with tickets already will be able to travel on the train
before or after if their intended train is cancelled.

How is this supposed to work? I can understand not selling Savers and
the like but how do they stop someone buying a standard or off-peak
return which is in princlple available across the industry?

Also, what happens about reservations? Will they be cancelled? If
potentially three passengers are holding reservations for the same
seat [number] on different trains, will there not be obvious scope for
conflict over who should occupy the seat. I can remember when the
10:40 was cancelled and passengers took the same seat [number] on the
11:40 and were disinclined to move when the holder of the reservation
for the 11:40 service turned up.

I am looking at flights!

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.

Unofficial industrial action.

> Passengers with tickets already will be able to travel on the train
> before or after if their intended train is cancelled.
>
> How is this supposed to work? I can understand not selling Savers and
> the like but how do they stop someone buying a standard or off-peak
> return which is in princlple available across the industry?
>
> Also, what happens about reservations? Will they be cancelled? If
> potentially three passengers are holding reservations for the same
> seat [number] on different trains, will there not be obvious scope for
> conflict over who should occupy the seat. I can remember when the
> 10:40 was cancelled and passengers took the same seat [number] on the
> 11:40 and were disinclined to move when the holder of the reservation
> for the 11:40 service turned up.
>
> I am looking at flights!
>

Won't all reservations be cancelled when up to two thirds of the services
aren't running?

In message <s5t4fhha1i9ft15c1b5jvm0fmdhheq5rin@4ax.com>, at 16:01:59 on
Tue, 9 Aug 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>Passengers with tickets already will be able to travel on the train
>before or after if their intended train is cancelled.
>
>How is this supposed to work? I can understand not selling Savers and
>the like but how do they stop someone buying a standard or off-peak
>return which is in princlple available across the industry?

They must only mean that Avanti have stopped selling (aka reduced quotas
to zero) of AP tickets. As you point out, anyone can buy a walkup ticket
from a couple of dozen other sellers.

A non-exhaustive list here (Avanti at the top as a historical
/alphabetical accident):

http://perry.co.uk/avantix_for_dummies.html

--
Roland Perry

On 09/08/2022 16:16, Recliner wrote:
> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>
> Unofficial industrial action.

Refusal to work overtime or on "rest days".

A lot of problems could be solved if companies employed enough staff to
work all their trains without a need for overtime working.
----------------------------------------------------

On 09/08/2022 18:44, Bevan Price wrote:
> On 09/08/2022 16:16, Recliner wrote:
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>>> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>>> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>>
>> Unofficial industrial action.
>
> Refusal to work overtime or on "rest days".
>
> A lot of problems could be solved if companies employed enough staff to
> work all their trains without a need for overtime working.
> ----------------------------------------------------
>

Then the drivers would complain about not being able to earn overtime!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

"Bevan Price" <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tcu6e2$1eup8$1@dont-email.me...
> On 09/08/2022 16:16, Recliner wrote:
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>>> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>>> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>>
>> Unofficial industrial action.
>
> Refusal to work overtime or on "rest days".
>
> A lot of problems could be solved if companies employed enough staff to
> work all their trains without a need for overtime working.

Any company that has too few staff and requires the existing ones to work
overtime beyond their normal contracted hours (*) (unless under occasional
exceptional conditions) is trying to cut corners, and that situation should
(in an ideal world) be protected against by suitable employment legislation.

(*) Or a figure set by national "maximum working week" legislation.

On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 18:44:34 +0100, Bevan Price
<bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 09/08/2022 16:16, Recliner wrote:
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>>> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>>> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>>
>> Unofficial industrial action.
>
>Refusal to work overtime or on "rest days".
>
>A lot of problems could be solved if companies employed enough staff to
>work all their trains without a need for overtime working.

Was there an era when the Unions obstructed recruitment because it
might be detrimental to the members' overtime opportunities? Did/does
recruitment require agreement with the Union?

On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 17:41:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <s5t4fhha1i9ft15c1b5jvm0fmdhheq5rin@4ax.com>, at 16:01:59 on
>Tue, 9 Aug 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>>selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>>Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>>Passengers with tickets already will be able to travel on the train
>>before or after if their intended train is cancelled.
>>
>>How is this supposed to work? I can understand not selling Savers and
>>the like but how do they stop someone buying a standard or off-peak
>>return which is in princlple available across the industry?
>
>They must only mean that Avanti have stopped selling (aka reduced quotas
>to zero) of AP tickets. As you point out, anyone can buy a walkup ticket
>from a couple of dozen other sellers.
>
>A non-exhaustive list here (Avanti at the top as a historical
>/alphabetical accident):
>
>http://perry.co.uk/avantix_for_dummies.html

Thanks. Another scenario: can the train operator restrict access to
the train if it considers the train to be overcrowded? Could they
allow only passengers with reservations - not walkup tickets?

On 09/08/2022 19:55, Scott wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 17:41:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <s5t4fhha1i9ft15c1b5jvm0fmdhheq5rin@4ax.com>, at 16:01:59 on
>> Tue, 9 Aug 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>>> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>>> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>>> Passengers with tickets already will be able to travel on the train
>>> before or after if their intended train is cancelled.
>>>
>>> How is this supposed to work? I can understand not selling Savers and
>>> the like but how do they stop someone buying a standard or off-peak
>>> return which is in princlple available across the industry?
>>
>> They must only mean that Avanti have stopped selling (aka reduced quotas
>> to zero) of AP tickets. As you point out, anyone can buy a walkup ticket
>>from a couple of dozen other sellers.
>>
>> A non-exhaustive list here (Avanti at the top as a historical
>> /alphabetical accident):
>>
>> http://perry.co.uk/avantix_for_dummies.html
>
> Thanks. Another scenario: can the train operator restrict access to
> the train if it considers the train to be overcrowded? Could they
> allow only passengers with reservations - not walkup tickets?

The guard / conductor can refuse to let a train move if he/she considers
it to be dangerously overcrowded.

On 09/08/2022 16:01, Scott wrote:
> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
> Passengers with tickets already will be able to travel on the train
> before or after if their intended train is cancelled.
>
> How is this supposed to work? I can understand not selling Savers and
> the like but how do they stop someone buying a standard or off-peak
> return which is in princlple available across the industry?
>
> Also, what happens about reservations? Will they be cancelled? If
> potentially three passengers are holding reservations for the same
> seat [number] on different trains, will there not be obvious scope for
> conflict over who should occupy the seat. I can remember when the
> 10:40 was cancelled and passengers took the same seat [number] on the
> 11:40 and were disinclined to move when the holder of the reservation
> for the 11:40 service turned up.
>
> I am looking at flights!

Having endured two flights in June I'd take my chances on the train.
Airports are particularly tedious at the moment.

On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 20:37:43 +0100, Bevan Price
<bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 09/08/2022 19:55, Scott wrote:
>> On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 17:41:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <s5t4fhha1i9ft15c1b5jvm0fmdhheq5rin@4ax.com>, at 16:01:59 on
>>> Tue, 9 Aug 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>>>> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>>>> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>>>> Passengers with tickets already will be able to travel on the train
>>>> before or after if their intended train is cancelled.
>>>>
>>>> How is this supposed to work? I can understand not selling Savers and
>>>> the like but how do they stop someone buying a standard or off-peak
>>>> return which is in princlple available across the industry?
>>>
>>> They must only mean that Avanti have stopped selling (aka reduced quotas
>>> to zero) of AP tickets. As you point out, anyone can buy a walkup ticket
>>>from a couple of dozen other sellers.
>>>
>>> A non-exhaustive list here (Avanti at the top as a historical
>>> /alphabetical accident):
>>>
>>> http://perry.co.uk/avantix_for_dummies.html
>>
>> Thanks. Another scenario: can the train operator restrict access to
>> the train if it considers the train to be overcrowded? Could they
>> allow only passengers with reservations - not walkup tickets?
>
>The guard / conductor can refuse to let a train move if he/she considers
>it to be dangerously overcrowded.

Which may be more likely if there happens to be an industrial dispute
taking place?

In this situation, how does BTP decide who should be removed?

I'm flying ...

On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 20:41:32 +0100, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk
wrote:

>On 09/08/2022 16:01, Scott wrote:
>> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>> Passengers with tickets already will be able to travel on the train
>> before or after if their intended train is cancelled.
>>
>> How is this supposed to work? I can understand not selling Savers and
>> the like but how do they stop someone buying a standard or off-peak
>> return which is in princlple available across the industry?
>>
>> Also, what happens about reservations? Will they be cancelled? If
>> potentially three passengers are holding reservations for the same
>> seat [number] on different trains, will there not be obvious scope for
>> conflict over who should occupy the seat. I can remember when the
>> 10:40 was cancelled and passengers took the same seat [number] on the
>> 11:40 and were disinclined to move when the holder of the reservation
>> for the 11:40 service turned up.
>>
>> I am looking at flights!
>
>Having endured two flights in June I'd take my chances on the train.
>Airports are particularly tedious at the moment.

Even with reportedly only four trains per day? I am flying to London
City so hoping it will be less manic.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 09/08/2022 16:01, Scott wrote:
>> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>> Passengers with tickets already will be able to travel on the train
>> before or after if their intended train is cancelled.
>>
>> How is this supposed to work? I can understand not selling Savers and
>> the like but how do they stop someone buying a standard or off-peak
>> return which is in princlple available across the industry?
>>
>> Also, what happens about reservations? Will they be cancelled? If
>> potentially three passengers are holding reservations for the same
>> seat [number] on different trains, will there not be obvious scope for
>> conflict over who should occupy the seat. I can remember when the
>> 10:40 was cancelled and passengers took the same seat [number] on the
>> 11:40 and were disinclined to move when the holder of the reservation
>> for the 11:40 service turned up.
>>
>> I am looking at flights!
>
> Having endured two flights in June I'd take my chances on the train.
> Airports are particularly tedious at the moment.
>

Probably even worse in this heatwave. But I've flown in March, May, June
and July and none of the nine airports were nearly as bad as the Eurostar
St Pancras terminal.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52154012167/

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 20:41:32 +0100, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk
> wrote:
>
>> On 09/08/2022 16:01, Scott wrote:
>>> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>>> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>>> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>>> Passengers with tickets already will be able to travel on the train
>>> before or after if their intended train is cancelled.
>>>
>>> How is this supposed to work? I can understand not selling Savers and
>>> the like but how do they stop someone buying a standard or off-peak
>>> return which is in princlple available across the industry?
>>>
>>> Also, what happens about reservations? Will they be cancelled? If
>>> potentially three passengers are holding reservations for the same
>>> seat [number] on different trains, will there not be obvious scope for
>>> conflict over who should occupy the seat. I can remember when the
>>> 10:40 was cancelled and passengers took the same seat [number] on the
>>> 11:40 and were disinclined to move when the holder of the reservation
>>> for the 11:40 service turned up.
>>>
>>> I am looking at flights!
>>
>> Having endured two flights in June I'd take my chances on the train.
>> Airports are particularly tedious at the moment.
>
> Even with reportedly only four trains per day? I am flying to London
> City so hoping it will be less manic.
>

It should be fine.

On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 20:45:14 +0100, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 20:37:43 +0100, Bevan Price
><bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 09/08/2022 19:55, Scott wrote:
>>> On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 17:41:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <s5t4fhha1i9ft15c1b5jvm0fmdhheq5rin@4ax.com>, at 16:01:59 on
>>>> Tue, 9 Aug 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>>>>> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>>>>> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>>>>> Passengers with tickets already will be able to travel on the train
>>>>> before or after if their intended train is cancelled.
>>>>>
>>>>> How is this supposed to work? I can understand not selling Savers and
>>>>> the like but how do they stop someone buying a standard or off-peak
>>>>> return which is in princlple available across the industry?
>>>>
>>>> They must only mean that Avanti have stopped selling (aka reduced quotas
>>>> to zero) of AP tickets. As you point out, anyone can buy a walkup ticket
>>>>from a couple of dozen other sellers.
>>>>
>>>> A non-exhaustive list here (Avanti at the top as a historical
>>>> /alphabetical accident):
>>>>
>>>> http://perry.co.uk/avantix_for_dummies.html
>>>
>>> Thanks. Another scenario: can the train operator restrict access to
>>> the train if it considers the train to be overcrowded? Could they
>>> allow only passengers with reservations - not walkup tickets?
>>
>>The guard / conductor can refuse to let a train move if he/she considers
>>it to be dangerously overcrowded.
>
>Which may be more likely if there happens to be an industrial dispute
>taking place?
>
>In this situation, how does BTP decide who should be removed?
>
>I'm flying ...
>
You have roughly one practical choice to start with - those in the
doorways. I suspect that in practice you could end up with a cancelled
train by the time BTP turn up and discuss matters.

On 09/08/2022 20:54, Recliner wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 09/08/2022 16:01, Scott wrote:
>>> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>>> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>>> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>>> Passengers with tickets already will be able to travel on the train
>>> before or after if their intended train is cancelled.
>>>
>>> How is this supposed to work? I can understand not selling Savers and
>>> the like but how do they stop someone buying a standard or off-peak
>>> return which is in princlple available across the industry?
>>>
>>> Also, what happens about reservations? Will they be cancelled? If
>>> potentially three passengers are holding reservations for the same
>>> seat [number] on different trains, will there not be obvious scope for
>>> conflict over who should occupy the seat. I can remember when the
>>> 10:40 was cancelled and passengers took the same seat [number] on the
>>> 11:40 and were disinclined to move when the holder of the reservation
>>> for the 11:40 service turned up.
>>>
>>> I am looking at flights!
>>
>> Having endured two flights in June I'd take my chances on the train.
>> Airports are particularly tedious at the moment.
>>
>
> Probably even worse in this heatwave. But I've flown in March, May, June
> and July and none of the nine airports were nearly as bad as the Eurostar
> St Pancras terminal.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52154012167/

It was like that a few days earlier. Gatwick was like that a few days
later.

On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 21:20:14 +0100, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk
wrote:
[snip]
>>
>> Probably even worse in this heatwave. But I've flown in March, May, June
>> and July and none of the nine airports were nearly as bad as the Eurostar
>> St Pancras terminal.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52154012167/
>
>It was like that a few days earlier. Gatwick was like that a few days
>later.

Question - what's the busiest holiday destination in Europe? Answer -
the complaints desk at Gatwick Airport.

On 09/08/2022 20:54, Recliner wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 09/08/2022 16:01, Scott wrote:
>>> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>>> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>>> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>>> Passengers with tickets already will be able to travel on the train
>>> before or after if their intended train is cancelled.
>>>
>>> How is this supposed to work? I can understand not selling Savers and
>>> the like but how do they stop someone buying a standard or off-peak
>>> return which is in princlple available across the industry?
>>>
>>> Also, what happens about reservations? Will they be cancelled? If
>>> potentially three passengers are holding reservations for the same
>>> seat [number] on different trains, will there not be obvious scope for
>>> conflict over who should occupy the seat. I can remember when the
>>> 10:40 was cancelled and passengers took the same seat [number] on the
>>> 11:40 and were disinclined to move when the holder of the reservation
>>> for the 11:40 service turned up.
>>>
>>> I am looking at flights!
>>
>> Having endured two flights in June I'd take my chances on the train.
>> Airports are particularly tedious at the moment.
>>
>
> Probably even worse in this heatwave. But I've flown in March, May, June
> and July and none of the nine airports were nearly as bad as the Eurostar
> St Pancras terminal.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52154012167/

When exactly was that?

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Bevan Price" <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:tcu6e2$1eup8$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 09/08/2022 16:16, Recliner wrote:
>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>>>> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>>>> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>>>
>>> Unofficial industrial action.
>>
>> Refusal to work overtime or on "rest days".
>>
>> A lot of problems could be solved if companies employed enough staff to
>> work all their trains without a need for overtime working.
>
> Any company that has too few staff and requires the existing ones to work
> overtime beyond their normal contracted hours (*) (unless under occasional
> exceptional conditions) is trying to cut corners, and that situation should
> (in an ideal world) be protected against by suitable employment legislation.
>
> (*) Or a figure set by national "maximum working week" legislation.
>
>

There's a long history of this issue:
<https://twitter.com/gceccles/status/1557014629326458887?s=21&t=cJmrNC2grIqEnbdKB6Tmag>

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 09/08/2022 20:54, Recliner wrote:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 09/08/2022 16:01, Scott wrote:
>>>> I saw a report on the BBC to the effect that Avanti are stopping
>>>> selling tickets because the number of trains between Euston and
>>>> Glasgow Central is being cut to four a day due to staff shortages.
>>>> Passengers with tickets already will be able to travel on the train
>>>> before or after if their intended train is cancelled.
>>>>
>>>> How is this supposed to work? I can understand not selling Savers and
>>>> the like but how do they stop someone buying a standard or off-peak
>>>> return which is in princlple available across the industry?
>>>>
>>>> Also, what happens about reservations? Will they be cancelled? If
>>>> potentially three passengers are holding reservations for the same
>>>> seat [number] on different trains, will there not be obvious scope for
>>>> conflict over who should occupy the seat. I can remember when the
>>>> 10:40 was cancelled and passengers took the same seat [number] on the
>>>> 11:40 and were disinclined to move when the holder of the reservation
>>>> for the 11:40 service turned up.
>>>>
>>>> I am looking at flights!
>>>
>>> Having endured two flights in June I'd take my chances on the train.
>>> Airports are particularly tedious at the moment.
>>>
>>
>> Probably even worse in this heatwave. But I've flown in March, May, June
>> and July and none of the nine airports were nearly as bad as the Eurostar
>> St Pancras terminal.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52154012167/
>
> When exactly was that?

As the page says, 5 June.

And the problems causing the delays and cancellations were nothing to do
with strikes, weather, Brexit, Covid or anything in the UK. It was down to
LGV OHLE failures near Paris the previous day, causing high speed trains to
be diverted to the French classic lines. I was travelling on an Amsterdam
train, which wasn't affected, but we had to suffer the packed departure
lounge.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> Thanks. Another scenario: can the train operator restrict access to
> the train if it considers the train to be overcrowded? Could they
> allow only passengers with reservations - not walkup tickets?

Yes, some trains are reservations-compulsory. The sleepers being the
obvious example. It doesn't preclude walk-up tickets, but you need to have
a reservation (on the sleeper that gets you a seat, with a supplement for a
berth), which you can make when you buy the ticket or later through a
booking office.

Historically reservations-compulsory trains have been busy trains on peak
holiday times. This was shown in the timetable. I'm not sure if there's a
protocol to retrospectively make a train reserved, but in the worst case
they could cancel it and run another train 1 minute earlier (leaving at the
same time in the WTT).

Theo

On 09 Aug 2022 21:53:40 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> Thanks. Another scenario: can the train operator restrict access to
>> the train if it considers the train to be overcrowded? Could they
>> allow only passengers with reservations - not walkup tickets?
>
>Yes, some trains are reservations-compulsory. The sleepers being the
>obvious example. It doesn't preclude walk-up tickets, but you need to have
>a reservation (on the sleeper that gets you a seat, with a supplement for a
>berth), which you can make when you buy the ticket or later through a
>booking office.
>
>Historically reservations-compulsory trains have been busy trains on peak
>holiday times. This was shown in the timetable. I'm not sure if there's a
>protocol to retrospectively make a train reserved, but in the worst case
>they could cancel it and run another train 1 minute earlier (leaving at the
>same time in the WTT).
>
Would all the passengers on the cancelled train become eligible for
compensation or does compensation only apply where there is a
contractual link to the specific train? (Otherwise, anyone could
check the cancellations then claim they were planning to travel on
that train but it was cancelled.)

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On 09 Aug 2022 21:53:40 +0100 (BST), Theo
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> >Historically reservations-compulsory trains have been busy trains on peak
> >holiday times. This was shown in the timetable. I'm not sure if there's a
> >protocol to retrospectively make a train reserved, but in the worst case
> >they could cancel it and run another train 1 minute earlier (leaving at the
> >same time in the WTT).
> >
> Would all the passengers on the cancelled train become eligible for
> compensation or does compensation only apply where there is a
> contractual link to the specific train? (Otherwise, anyone could
> check the cancellations then claim they were planning to travel on
> that train but it was cancelled.)

I'm not sure why this is different from situations that regularly happen
where trains are cancelled due to weather, staff or mechanical issues. As
long as sufficient notice is given, people are able to move inflexible
tickets to another day or get a refund.

But here unreserved flexible tickets have no specific train allocated, so a
user has not expressed any preference as to when they will travel. Such
tickets have always been refundable anyway and, assuming the train is
cancelled sufficiently far in advance, the user can make other arrangements.
'Check times before you travel' is always advisable for someone who doesn't
have a reservation.

On the day, maybe somebody could say they turned up to catch the xx:xx and
it was cancelled, but that's different from simply changing the timetable so
the xx:xx doesn't exist and the xx:yy does instead.

Theo

On 10 Aug 2022 11:06:30 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 09 Aug 2022 21:53:40 +0100 (BST), Theo
>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> >Historically reservations-compulsory trains have been busy trains on peak
>> >holiday times. This was shown in the timetable. I'm not sure if there's a
>> >protocol to retrospectively make a train reserved, but in the worst case
>> >they could cancel it and run another train 1 minute earlier (leaving at the
>> >same time in the WTT).
>> >
>> Would all the passengers on the cancelled train become eligible for
>> compensation or does compensation only apply where there is a
>> contractual link to the specific train? (Otherwise, anyone could
>> check the cancellations then claim they were planning to travel on
>> that train but it was cancelled.)
>
>I'm not sure why this is different from situations that regularly happen
>where trains are cancelled due to weather, staff or mechanical issues. As
>long as sufficient notice is given, people are able to move inflexible
>tickets to another day or get a refund.

Are you saying that Delay Repay does not apply where notice is given?
On that basis, they should cancel each train that is running late to
avoid compensation payments..
>
>But here unreserved flexible tickets have no specific train allocated, so a
>user has not expressed any preference as to when they will travel. Such
>tickets have always been refundable anyway and, assuming the train is
>cancelled sufficiently far in advance, the user can make other arrangements.
>'Check times before you travel' is always advisable for someone who doesn't
>have a reservation.

Delay Repay goes beyond a refund. It allows you to undertake the
journey AND make a compensation claim.

Does Delay Repay only apply where a seat has been reserved? I have
never understood this to be the case. .
>
>On the day, maybe somebody could say they turned up to catch the xx:xx and
>it was cancelled, but that's different from simply changing the timetable so
>the xx:xx doesn't exist and the xx:yy does instead.
>
Scope for fraud then?

On 10/08/2022 12:29, Scott wrote:
> On 10 Aug 2022 11:06:30 +0100 (BST), Theo
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 09 Aug 2022 21:53:40 +0100 (BST), Theo
>>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> Historically reservations-compulsory trains have been busy trains on peak
>>>> holiday times. This was shown in the timetable. I'm not sure if there's a
>>>> protocol to retrospectively make a train reserved, but in the worst case
>>>> they could cancel it and run another train 1 minute earlier (leaving at the
>>>> same time in the WTT).
>>>>
>>> Would all the passengers on the cancelled train become eligible for
>>> compensation or does compensation only apply where there is a
>>> contractual link to the specific train? (Otherwise, anyone could
>>> check the cancellations then claim they were planning to travel on
>>> that train but it was cancelled.)
>>
>> I'm not sure why this is different from situations that regularly happen
>> where trains are cancelled due to weather, staff or mechanical issues. As
>> long as sufficient notice is given, people are able to move inflexible
>> tickets to another day or get a refund.
>
> Are you saying that Delay Repay does not apply where notice is given?
> On that basis, they should cancel each train that is running late to
> avoid compensation payments..
>>

Didn't one company try that (perhaps more than one)?

--
Graeme Wall
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