A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has begun
a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with Avanti
West Coast.

The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.

The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.

Could this be the future of rail travel?

In message <tdr93n$21kk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:28:04 on Sat, 20 Aug
2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has begun
>a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with Avanti
>West Coast.
>
>The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.

That £169 is about halfway down the Avanti price list for Advance Fares,
I wonder why that one has been picked?

>The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.
>
>Could this be the future of rail travel?

It's the sort of thing which might be useful for a small number of
passengers who are willing to make their travel plans significantly in
advance, and work around the gaps in the timetable of the heritage rail
firm.

There's a lot of discontent at the moment about Avanti reducing its
service to 1tph (for whatever reasons), I don't think the Heritage
railway can offer anything close to that.

ps The cheapest non-promo|sale Avanti fare is £32.00
<brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=CRE&dest=EUS&rte=516&tkt=V1Z>
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <tdr93n$21kk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:28:04 on Sat, 20 Aug
> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>> A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has begun
>> a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with Avanti
>> West Coast.
>>
>> The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.
>
> That £169 is about halfway down the Avanti price list for Advance Fares,
> I wonder why that one has been picked?
>
>> The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.
>>
>> Could this be the future of rail travel?
>
> It's the sort of thing which might be useful for a small number of
> passengers who are willing to make their travel plans significantly in
> advance, and work around the gaps in the timetable of the heritage rail
> firm.
>
> There's a lot of discontent at the moment about Avanti reducing its
> service to 1tph (for whatever reasons), I don't think the Heritage
> railway can offer anything close to that.

It doesn't: Jeremy is only offering 1 tpw, for four weeks (starting two
days ago), and it's not a return trip I posted this info a while back, but
apparently no-one noticed.

The all-First service departs Crewe on four Fridays at 14.29 and operates
non-stop to London Euston arriving at 16.12. The return leg leaves Euston
at 17.27 and calls at Birmingham International at 18.40, Birmingham New
Street at 18.54, Wolverhampton at 19.14, Stafford at 19.40, Crewe at 20.04,
Wilmslow at 20.24, terminating at Manchester Piccadilly at 20.45.

Unlike with Avanti, catering is not complimentary but the train includes
two buffet cars which serve tea, coffee, snacks as well as alcoholic
drinks.

On 21/08/2022 10:32, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tdr93n$21kk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:28:04 on Sat, 20 Aug
> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>> A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has
>> begun a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with
>> Avanti West Coast.
>>
>> The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.
>
> That £169 is about halfway down the Avanti price list for Advance Fares,
> I wonder why that one has been picked?
>
>> The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.
>>
>> Could this be the future of rail travel?
>
> It's the sort of thing which might be useful for a small number of
> passengers who are willing to make their travel plans significantly in
> advance, and work around the gaps in the timetable of the heritage rail
> firm.
>
> There's a lot of discontent at the moment about Avanti reducing its
> service to 1tph (for whatever reasons), I don't think the Heritage
> railway can offer anything close to that.
>
> ps The cheapest non-promo|sale Avanti fare is £32.00
>    <brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=CRE&dest=EUS&rte=516&tkt=V1Z>

The LSG train is one down and then shortly afterwards, one up train.
First class only. Only attractive to the railtour fraternity or someone
wanting to overnight in London.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> The LSG train is one down and then shortly afterwards, one up train.
> First class only. Only attractive to the railtour fraternity or someone
> wanting to overnight in London.

It's one up train to London from Crewe, and then a return straight back
again to Manchester.

It's timed for the peak 'Friday night getaway' from London. It doesn't help
you get back to London, but perhaps Sunday service trains will be available
for that.

It might be running because paths are available that would normally be taken
up by Avanti. Given the timings, it's competing with peak ticket pricing
and so seems a good deal. It seems like the up trip is them running ECS
anyway so they might as well sell tickets, especially given the limited WCML
Avanti service (and pax can presumably get to Crewe under their own steam).

Theo

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 21/08/2022 10:32, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <tdr93n$21kk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:28:04 on Sat, 20 Aug
>> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>> A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has
>>> begun a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with
>>> Avanti West Coast.
>>>
>>> The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.
>>
>> That £169 is about halfway down the Avanti price list for Advance Fares,
>> I wonder why that one has been picked?
>>
>>> The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.
>>>
>>> Could this be the future of rail travel?
>>
>> It's the sort of thing which might be useful for a small number of
>> passengers who are willing to make their travel plans significantly in
>> advance, and work around the gaps in the timetable of the heritage rail
>> firm.
>>
>> There's a lot of discontent at the moment about Avanti reducing its
>> service to 1tph (for whatever reasons), I don't think the Heritage
>> railway can offer anything close to that.
>>
>> ps The cheapest non-promo|sale Avanti fare is £32.00
>>    <brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=CRE&dest=EUS&rte=516&tkt=V1Z>
>
> The LSG train is one down and then shortly afterwards, one up train.
> First class only. Only attractive to the railtour fraternity or someone
> wanting to overnight in London.
>

It's a weekly service, and not even a Manchester-London return trip. It's
actually a non-stop Up train from Crewe to Euston with a stopping Down
train to Manchester.

On 21/08/2022 11:46, Theo wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> The LSG train is one down and then shortly afterwards, one up train.
>> First class only. Only attractive to the railtour fraternity or someone
>> wanting to overnight in London.
>
> It's one up train to London from Crewe, and then a return straight back
> again to Manchester.

Sorry, got my up and down mixed, was thinking geographically, not railway!

>
> It's timed for the peak 'Friday night getaway' from London. It doesn't help
> you get back to London, but perhaps Sunday service trains will be available
> for that.
>
> It might be running because paths are available that would normally be taken
> up by Avanti. Given the timings, it's competing with peak ticket pricing
> and so seems a good deal. It seems like the up trip is them running ECS
> anyway so they might as well sell tickets, especially given the limited WCML
> Avanti service (and pax can presumably get to Crewe under their own steam).
>
> Theo

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <tdt179$2ao9f$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:25:45 on Sun, 21 Aug
2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 21/08/2022 10:32, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <tdr93n$21kk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:28:04 on Sat, 20 Aug
>>2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>> A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has
>>>begun a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with
>>>Avanti West Coast.
>>>
>>> The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.
>> That £169 is about halfway down the Avanti price list for Advance
>>Fares,
>> I wonder why that one has been picked?
>>
>>> The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.
>>>
>>> Could this be the future of rail travel?

>> It's the sort of thing which might be useful for a small number of
>>passengers who are willing to make their travel plans significantly in
>>advance, and work around the gaps in the timetable of the heritage
>>rail firm.

>> There's a lot of discontent at the moment about Avanti reducing its
>>service to 1tph (for whatever reasons), I don't think the Heritage
>>railway can offer anything close to that.

>> ps The cheapest non-promo|sale Avanti fare is £32.00
>>    <brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=CRE&dest=EUS&rte=516&tkt=V1Z>
>
>The LSG train is one down and then shortly afterwards, one up train.
>First class only. Only attractive to the railtour fraternity or someone
>wanting to overnight in London.

Not very many of whom will live in Crewe. Thus will need onward
transport.

Will this outfit be participating in the "Delay Repay" scheme in the
eventuality that they get people back to Crewe late (and missed
connections etc)
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 13:13:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>In message <tdt179$2ao9f$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:25:45 on Sun, 21 Aug
>2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>On 21/08/2022 10:32, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <tdr93n$21kk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:28:04 on Sat, 20 Aug
>>>2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has
>>>>begun a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with
>>>>Avanti West Coast.
>>>>
>>>> The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.
>>> That £169 is about halfway down the Avanti price list for Advance
>>>Fares,
>>> I wonder why that one has been picked?
>>>
>>>> The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.
>>>>
>>>> Could this be the future of rail travel?
>
>>> It's the sort of thing which might be useful for a small number of
>>>passengers who are willing to make their travel plans significantly in
>>>advance, and work around the gaps in the timetable of the heritage
>>>rail firm.
>
>>> There's a lot of discontent at the moment about Avanti reducing its
>>>service to 1tph (for whatever reasons), I don't think the Heritage
>>>railway can offer anything close to that.
>
>>> ps The cheapest non-promo|sale Avanti fare is £32.00
>>>    <brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=CRE&dest=EUS&rte=516&tkt=V1Z>
>>
>>The LSG train is one down and then shortly afterwards, one up train.
>>First class only. Only attractive to the railtour fraternity or someone
>>wanting to overnight in London.
>
>Not very many of whom will live in Crewe. Thus will need onward
>transport.
>
>Will this outfit be participating in the "Delay Repay" scheme in the
>eventuality that they get people back to Crewe late (and missed
>connections etc)

No, it's a charter train. But like all Jeremy's trains, the old Mk 3 carriages are going to be very nicely turned out.

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 13:39:27 +0100, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 13:13:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <tdt179$2ao9f$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:25:45 on Sun, 21 Aug
>>2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>On 21/08/2022 10:32, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <tdr93n$21kk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:28:04 on Sat, 20 Aug
>>>>2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has
>>>>>begun a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with
>>>>>Avanti West Coast.
>>>>>
>>>>> The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.
>>>> That £169 is about halfway down the Avanti price list for Advance
>>>>Fares,
>>>> I wonder why that one has been picked?
>>>>
>>>>> The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could this be the future of rail travel?
>>
>>>> It's the sort of thing which might be useful for a small number of
>>>>passengers who are willing to make their travel plans significantly in
>>>>advance, and work around the gaps in the timetable of the heritage
>>>>rail firm.
>>
>>>> There's a lot of discontent at the moment about Avanti reducing its
>>>>service to 1tph (for whatever reasons), I don't think the Heritage
>>>>railway can offer anything close to that.
>>
>>>> ps The cheapest non-promo|sale Avanti fare is £32.00
>>>>    <brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=CRE&dest=EUS&rte=516&tkt=V1Z>
>>>
>>>The LSG train is one down and then shortly afterwards, one up train.
>>>First class only. Only attractive to the railtour fraternity or someone
>>>wanting to overnight in London.
>>
>>Not very many of whom will live in Crewe. Thus will need onward
>>transport.
>>
>>Will this outfit be participating in the "Delay Repay" scheme in the
>>eventuality that they get people back to Crewe late (and missed
>>connections etc)
>
>No, it's a charter train. But like all Jeremy's trains, the old Mk 3 carriages are going to be very nicely turned out.

There's a picture here:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/19/heritage-railway-takes-on-avanti-with-first-class-west-coast-service-london-manchester

Surprised that no-one's posted it earlier

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <tdr93n$21kk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:28:04 on Sat, 20 Aug
> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>> A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has begun
>> a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with Avanti
>> West Coast.
>>
>> The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.
>
> That £169 is about halfway down the Avanti price list for Advance Fares,
> I wonder why that one has been picked?
>
>> The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.
>>
>> Could this be the future of rail travel?
>
> It's the sort of thing which might be useful for a small number of
> passengers who are willing to make their travel plans significantly in
> advance, and work around the gaps in the timetable of the heritage rail
> firm.
>

"Gaps in the timetable of the [heritage rail] firm"?!?

Their offering is a mid-afternoon Crewe-Euston and return
Euston-Manchester, 1tpd each way, Fridays only (so actually 1tpw each
way!), the London-Manchester leg taking 3h15 (vs 2h07 for the Avanti
trains). However due to the current reduced timetable it only gets
overtaken by one Avanti train.

I'd take issue with Locomotive Services Limited (LSL) and their InterCity
brand <https://inter-city.co.uk> being described as "heritage rail", too -
they're a commercial railtour operator of older stock, but it's no more
'preserved' than, say, gWr/ScotRail/XC's HSTs (and the coaches are the same
age, the locos younger).

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <tdt179$2ao9f$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:25:45 on Sun, 21 Aug
> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 21/08/2022 10:32, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <tdr93n$21kk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:28:04 on Sat, 20 Aug
>>> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has
>>>> begun a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with
>>>> Avanti West Coast.
>>>>
>>>> The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.
>>> That £169 is about halfway down the Avanti price list for Advance
>>> Fares,
>>> I wonder why that one has been picked?
>>>
>>>> The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.
>>>>
>>>> Could this be the future of rail travel?
>
>>> It's the sort of thing which might be useful for a small number of
>>> passengers who are willing to make their travel plans significantly in
>>> advance, and work around the gaps in the timetable of the heritage
>>> rail firm.
>
>>> There's a lot of discontent at the moment about Avanti reducing its
>>> service to 1tph (for whatever reasons), I don't think the Heritage
>>> railway can offer anything close to that.
>
>>> ps The cheapest non-promo|sale Avanti fare is £32.00
>>>    <brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=CRE&dest=EUS&rte=516&tkt=V1Z>
>>
>> The LSG train is one down and then shortly afterwards, one up train.
>> First class only. Only attractive to the railtour fraternity or someone
>> wanting to overnight in London.
>
> Not very many of whom will live in Crewe. Thus will need onward
> transport.
>
> Will this outfit be participating in the "Delay Repay" scheme in the
> eventuality that they get people back to Crewe late (and missed
> connections etc)

Of course not. It's a railtour.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 13:39:27 +0100, Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 13:13:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <tdt179$2ao9f$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:25:45 on Sun, 21 Aug
>>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 21/08/2022 10:32, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <tdr93n$21kk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:28:04 on Sat, 20 Aug
>>>>> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has
>>>>>> begun a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with
>>>>>> Avanti West Coast.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.
>>>>> That £169 is about halfway down the Avanti price list for Advance
>>>>> Fares,
>>>>> I wonder why that one has been picked?
>>>>>
>>>>>> The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could this be the future of rail travel?
>>>
>>>>> It's the sort of thing which might be useful for a small number of
>>>>> passengers who are willing to make their travel plans significantly in
>>>>> advance, and work around the gaps in the timetable of the heritage
>>>>> rail firm.
>>>
>>>>> There's a lot of discontent at the moment about Avanti reducing its
>>>>> service to 1tph (for whatever reasons), I don't think the Heritage
>>>>> railway can offer anything close to that.
>>>
>>>>> ps The cheapest non-promo|sale Avanti fare is £32.00
>>>>>    <brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=CRE&dest=EUS&rte=516&tkt=V1Z>
>>>>
>>>> The LSG train is one down and then shortly afterwards, one up train.
>>>> First class only. Only attractive to the railtour fraternity or someone
>>>> wanting to overnight in London.
>>>
>>> Not very many of whom will live in Crewe. Thus will need onward
>>> transport.
>>>
>>> Will this outfit be participating in the "Delay Repay" scheme in the
>>> eventuality that they get people back to Crewe late (and missed
>>> connections etc)
>>
>> No, it's a charter train. But like all Jeremy's trains, the old Mk 3
>> carriages are going to be very nicely turned out.
>
> There's a picture here:
> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/19/heritage-railway-takes-on-avanti-with-first-class-west-coast-service-london-manchester
>
> Surprised that no-one's posted it earlier
>

Shame they can't get the operator's name right though. Or even consistently
wrong.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message <8qo4gh1dkcaja3c43idc750cu3v1ktq10c@4ax.com>, at 17:55:24 on
Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> remarked:
>On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 13:39:27 +0100, Recliner
><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 13:13:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>In message <tdt179$2ao9f$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:25:45 on Sun, 21 Aug
>>>2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>On 21/08/2022 10:32, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <tdr93n$21kk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:28:04 on Sat, 20 Aug
>>>>>2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has
>>>>>>begun a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with
>>>>>>Avanti West Coast.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.
>>>>> That £169 is about halfway down the Avanti price list for Advance
>>>>>Fares,
>>>>> I wonder why that one has been picked?
>>>>>
>>>>>> The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could this be the future of rail travel?
>>>
>>>>> It's the sort of thing which might be useful for a small number of
>>>>>passengers who are willing to make their travel plans significantly in
>>>>>advance, and work around the gaps in the timetable of the heritage
>>>>>rail firm.
>>>
>>>>> There's a lot of discontent at the moment about Avanti reducing its
>>>>>service to 1tph (for whatever reasons), I don't think the Heritage
>>>>>railway can offer anything close to that.
>>>
>>>>> ps The cheapest non-promo|sale Avanti fare is £32.00
>>>>>    <brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=CRE&dest=EUS&rte=516&tkt=V1Z>
>>>>
>>>>The LSG train is one down and then shortly afterwards, one up train.
>>>>First class only. Only attractive to the railtour fraternity or someone
>>>>wanting to overnight in London.
>>>
>>>Not very many of whom will live in Crewe. Thus will need onward
>>>transport.
>>>
>>>Will this outfit be participating in the "Delay Repay" scheme in the
>>>eventuality that they get people back to Crewe late (and missed
>>>connections etc)
>>
>>No, it's a charter train. But like all Jeremy's trains, the old Mk 3
>>carriages are going to be very nicely turned out.
>
>There's a picture here:
>https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/19/heritage-railway-takes-o
>n-avanti-with-first-class-west-coast-service-london-manchester

"The operator, Avanti, may think it has passengers over a barrel as it
has a monopoly on the line."

And there we were, only a couple of days ago, exploring all the
non-Avanti TOCs on which such trips could be achieved. Not direct
services, but does that matter?
--
Roland Perry

In message <tdtqnf$2d4cc$4@dont-email.me>, at 17:41:03 on Sun, 21 Aug
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:

>> Will this outfit be participating in the "Delay Repay" scheme in the
>> eventuality that they get people back to Crewe late (and missed
>> connections etc)
>
>Of course not. It's a railtour.

So not in any sense a true competitor.
--
Roland Perry

In message <tdtqne$2d4cc$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:41:02 on Sun, 21 Aug
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <tdr93n$21kk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:28:04 on Sat, 20 Aug
>> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>> A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has begun
>>> a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with Avanti
>>> West Coast.
>>>
>>> The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.
>>
>> That £169 is about halfway down the Avanti price list for Advance Fares,
>> I wonder why that one has been picked?
>>
>>> The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.
>>>
>>> Could this be the future of rail travel?
>>
>> It's the sort of thing which might be useful for a small number of
>> passengers who are willing to make their travel plans significantly in
>> advance, and work around the gaps in the timetable of the heritage rail
>> firm.
>>
>
>"Gaps in the timetable of the [heritage rail] firm"?!?

Apparently their "competitive" service isn't even every hour or every
day, but just once a week. It's being vastly over-sold.

>Their offering is a mid-afternoon Crewe-Euston and return
>Euston-Manchester, 1tpd each way, Fridays only (so actually 1tpw each
>way!), the London-Manchester leg taking 3h15 (vs 2h07 for the Avanti
>trains).

Crikey, 110mph vs 125mph makes that much difference?

--
Roland Perry

On 21/08/2022 19:28, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <8qo4gh1dkcaja3c43idc750cu3v1ktq10c@4ax.com>, at 17:55:24 on
> Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> remarked:
>> There's a picture here:
>> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/19/heritage-railway-takes-o
>> n-avanti-with-first-class-west-coast-service-london-manchester
>
> "The operator, Avanti, may think it has passengers over a barrel as it
> has a monopoly on the line."

I don't think the ScotRail audio file included "cancelled due to a
monopoly on the line".

In message <tdtubf$2delu$2@dont-email.me>, at 19:42:54 on Sun, 21 Aug
2022, Certes <none@nowhere.net> remarked:
>On 21/08/2022 19:28, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <8qo4gh1dkcaja3c43idc750cu3v1ktq10c@4ax.com>, at 17:55:24
>>on Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam>
>>remarked:
>>> There's a picture here:
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/19/heritage-railway-takes-o
>>> n-avanti-with-first-class-west-coast-service-london-manchester

>> "The operator, Avanti, may think it has passengers over a barrel as
>>it has a monopoly on the line."
>
>I don't think the ScotRail audio file included "cancelled due to a
>monopoly on the line".

I remember a train (whatever FGW was called that week) "delayed because
of an inflatable hamburger on the line".

Reminded of that a couple of days ago wen the ECML was brought to a
standstill for a couple of hours because of an inflatable party balloon
caught up on the OHL.
--
Roland Perry

On 21/08/2022 19:42, Certes wrote:
> On 21/08/2022 19:28, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <8qo4gh1dkcaja3c43idc750cu3v1ktq10c@4ax.com>, at 17:55:24
>> on Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> remarked:
>>> There's a picture here:
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/19/heritage-railway-takes-o
>>> n-avanti-with-first-class-west-coast-service-london-manchester
>>
>> "The operator, Avanti, may think it has passengers over a barrel as it
>> has a monopoly on the line."
>
> I don't think the ScotRail audio file included "cancelled due to a
> monopoly on the line".

They are still playing games I see…

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <tdtqne$2d4cc$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:41:02 on Sun, 21 Aug
> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tdr93n$21kk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:28:04 on Sat, 20 Aug
>>> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has begun
>>>> a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with Avanti
>>>> West Coast.
>>>>
>>>> The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.
>>>
>>> That £169 is about halfway down the Avanti price list for Advance Fares,
>>> I wonder why that one has been picked?
>>>
>>>> The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.
>>>>
>>>> Could this be the future of rail travel?
>>>
>>> It's the sort of thing which might be useful for a small number of
>>> passengers who are willing to make their travel plans significantly in
>>> advance, and work around the gaps in the timetable of the heritage rail
>>> firm.
>>>
>>
>> "Gaps in the timetable of the [heritage rail] firm"?!?
>
> Apparently their "competitive" service isn't even every hour or every
> day, but just once a week. It's being vastly over-sold.
>
>> Their offering is a mid-afternoon Crewe-Euston and return
>> Euston-Manchester, 1tpd each way, Fridays only (so actually 1tpw each
>> way!), the London-Manchester leg taking 3h15 (vs 2h07 for the Avanti
>> trains).
>
> Crikey, 110mph vs 125mph makes that much difference?
>

No, but going via Brum does.

On 21/08/2022 19:32, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tdtqne$2d4cc$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:41:02 on Sun, 21 Aug
> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tdr93n$21kk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:28:04 on Sat, 20 Aug
>>> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has begun
>>>> a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with Avanti
>>>> West Coast.
>>>>
>>>> The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.
>>>
>>> That £169 is about halfway down the Avanti price list for Advance Fares,
>>> I wonder why that one has been picked?
>>>
>>>> The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.
>>>>
>>>> Could this be the future of rail travel?
>>>
>>> It's the sort of thing which might be useful for a small number of
>>> passengers who are willing to make their travel plans significantly in
>>> advance, and work around the gaps in the timetable of the heritage rail
>>> firm.
>>>
>>
>> "Gaps in the timetable of the [heritage rail] firm"?!?
>
> Apparently their "competitive" service isn't even every hour or every
> day, but just once a week. It's being vastly over-sold.
>
>> Their offering is a mid-afternoon Crewe-Euston and return
>> Euston-Manchester, 1tpd each way, Fridays only (so actually 1tpw each
>> way!), the London-Manchester leg taking 3h15 (vs 2h07 for the Avanti
>> trains).
>
> Crikey, 110mph vs 125mph makes that much difference?
>
No. Going via Birmingham is the difference.

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> "Gaps in the timetable of the [heritage rail] firm"?!?
>
> Their offering is a mid-afternoon Crewe-Euston and return
> Euston-Manchester, 1tpd each way, Fridays only (so actually 1tpw each
> way!), the London-Manchester leg taking 3h15 (vs 2h07 for the Avanti
> trains). However due to the current reduced timetable it only gets
> overtaken by one Avanti train.

Yes, it's a one off (per week), like a football special. You book it if it
goes where you want to go. You don't pull up the timetable and be surprised
that there's only one a week - this is not like turning up at Reddish South
and looking at the timetable poster.

> I'd take issue with Locomotive Services Limited (LSL) and their InterCity
> brand <https://inter-city.co.uk> being described as "heritage rail", too -
> they're a commercial railtour operator of older stock, but it's no more
> 'preserved' than, say, gWr/ScotRail/XC's HSTs (and the coaches are the same
> age, the locos younger).

They offer quite a range of heritage locos (Deltic, 20s, 86s, etc) so
they're heritage in that sense. The coaching stock just happens to be a bit
newer than the usual rake of Mk1s. I think the 90s they have are
technically preserved too (not sure if 90001 is on the NRM preservation
list). Also, I think the coaches have a derogation from accessibility
requirements, which is another flavour of 'heritage'.

[I presume they are ex-GA Mk3s? Not sure if they have retention tiolets or
not, but is track-flushing only allowed now on a heritage basis?]

Theo

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 19:30:34 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>In message <tdtqnf$2d4cc$4@dont-email.me>, at 17:41:03 on Sun, 21 Aug
>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>
>>> Will this outfit be participating in the "Delay Repay" scheme in the
>>> eventuality that they get people back to Crewe late (and missed
>>> connections etc)
>>
>>Of course not. It's a railtour.
>
>So not in any sense a true competitor.

No, of course not. Jeremy is a smart businessman, who's simply taking advantage of a temporary business opportunity.
Equally, he decided not to run the popular Staycation Express this summer, as he felt that that opportunity had
diminished.

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> "Gaps in the timetable of the [heritage rail] firm"?!?
>>
>> Their offering is a mid-afternoon Crewe-Euston and return
>> Euston-Manchester, 1tpd each way, Fridays only (so actually 1tpw each
>> way!), the London-Manchester leg taking 3h15 (vs 2h07 for the Avanti
>> trains). However due to the current reduced timetable it only gets
>> overtaken by one Avanti train.
>
> Yes, it's a one off (per week), like a football special. You book it if it
> goes where you want to go. You don't pull up the timetable and be surprised
> that there's only one a week - this is not like turning up at Reddish South
> and looking at the timetable poster.
>
>> I'd take issue with Locomotive Services Limited (LSL) and their InterCity
>> brand <https://inter-city.co.uk> being described as "heritage rail", too -
>> they're a commercial railtour operator of older stock, but it's no more
>> 'preserved' than, say, gWr/ScotRail/XC's HSTs (and the coaches are the same
>> age, the locos younger).
>
> They offer quite a range of heritage locos (Deltic, 20s, 86s, etc) so
> they're heritage in that sense. The coaching stock just happens to be a bit
> newer than the usual rake of Mk1s. I think the 90s they have are
> technically preserved too (not sure if 90001 is on the NRM preservation
> list). Also, I think the coaches have a derogation from accessibility
> requirements, which is another flavour of 'heritage'.
>
> [I presume they are ex-GA Mk3s? Not sure if they have retention tiolets or
> not, but is track-flushing only allowed now on a heritage basis?]

I've been on Mk 1 charter stock with chemical toilets, which will have to
be done with all main line charter stock within the next couple of years.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <tdtqne$2d4cc$3@dont-email.me>, at 17:41:02 on Sun, 21 Aug
> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tdr93n$21kk6$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:28:04 on Sat, 20 Aug
>>> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> A Heritage Rail firm Locomotive Services Group based in Crewe has begun
>>>> a charter service from Crewe to London Euston to compete with Avanti
>>>> West Coast.
>>>>
>>>> The 1st class fare is £75, Avanti charge £169.
>>>
>>> That £169 is about halfway down the Avanti price list for Advance Fares,
>>> I wonder why that one has been picked?
>>>
>>>> The service uses BR Mk3 stock and an electric loco.
>>>>
>>>> Could this be the future of rail travel?
>>>
>>> It's the sort of thing which might be useful for a small number of
>>> passengers who are willing to make their travel plans significantly in
>>> advance, and work around the gaps in the timetable of the heritage rail
>>> firm.
>>>
>>
>> "Gaps in the timetable of the [heritage rail] firm"?!?
>
> Apparently their "competitive" service isn't even every hour or every
> day, but just once a week. It's being vastly over-sold.
>
>> Their offering is a mid-afternoon Crewe-Euston and return
>> Euston-Manchester, 1tpd each way, Fridays only (so actually 1tpw each
>> way!), the London-Manchester leg taking 3h15 (vs 2h07 for the Avanti
>> trains).
>
> Crikey, 110mph vs 125mph makes that much difference?
>

Mostly down to the stopping pattern, and the route via Birmingham and
Crewe, I'd guess.

Friday's train arrived 17 minutes late
<https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U66444/2022-08-19/detailed#allox_id=0>

Anna Noyd-Dryver