On 23/01/2023 17:57, JNugent wrote:
> I expect the STV / Grampian produce as much local news and news
> magazine-type programming as any English former franchise area (eg,
> Anglia, Meridian, Tyne-Tees) does, plus in the case of STV from time to
> time, a bit of stuff for the network ("Taggart" is the most obvious of
> those over the years).

I am always surprised that STV don't appear to make any use of ITV's
extra channels. But perhaps they are 'owned' by ITV and they either
have no access or would have to pay to use them.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 18:58:05 +0000
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>On 23/01/2023 17:57, JNugent wrote:
>> I expect the STV / Grampian produce as much local news and news
>> magazine-type programming as any English former franchise area (eg,
>> Anglia, Meridian, Tyne-Tees) does, plus in the case of STV from time to
>> time, a bit of stuff for the network ("Taggart" is the most obvious of
>> those over the years).
>
>
>I am always surprised that STV don't appear to make any use of ITV's
>extra channels. But perhaps they are 'owned' by ITV and they either
>have no access or would have to pay to use them.

Probably not enough potential viewers to make it worth them forking out
for the extra channels. I frequently wonder how a large proportion of the
Freeview channels survive as their viewing figures must be below 6 (or even 5)
digits most of the time. Apparently TalkTV had a measured zero for one of
their programs - Tom Newton Dunns show - at some point last year.

On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 11:24:40 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 18:58:05 +0000
>MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>On 23/01/2023 17:57, JNugent wrote:
>>> I expect the STV / Grampian produce as much local news and news
>>> magazine-type programming as any English former franchise area (eg,
>>> Anglia, Meridian, Tyne-Tees) does, plus in the case of STV from time to
>>> time, a bit of stuff for the network ("Taggart" is the most obvious of
>>> those over the years).
>>
>>
>>I am always surprised that STV don't appear to make any use of ITV's
>>extra channels. But perhaps they are 'owned' by ITV and they either
>>have no access or would have to pay to use them.
>
>Probably not enough potential viewers to make it worth them forking out
>for the extra channels. I frequently wonder how a large proportion of the
>Freeview channels survive as their viewing figures must be below 6 (or even 5)
>digits most of the time. Apparently TalkTV had a measured zero for one of
>their programs - Tom Newton Dunns show - at some point last year.

AIUI these extra channels are available in Scotland, just branded
ITV2, ITV3 etc. I wonder if STV gets a share of the advertising
revenue.

On 24/01/2023 06:58 pm, MB wrote:

> On 23/01/2023 17:57, JNugent wrote:

>> I expect the STV / Grampian produce as much local news and news
>> magazine-type programming as any English former franchise area (eg,
>> Anglia, Meridian, Tyne-Tees) does, plus in the case of STV from time to
>> time, a bit of stuff for the network ("Taggart" is the most obvious of
>> those over the years).

> I am always surprised that STV don't appear to make any use of ITV's
> extra channels.  But perhaps they are 'owned' by ITV and they either
> have no access or would have to pay to use them.

Does STV/Grampian not sell "Taggart" to the ITV re-run channels (not
that ITV2 is exclusively re-run, of course) and the UKTV/Gold conglomerate?

How about "Take The High Road", etc?

After all, STV, Border and Grampian were never main network providers
like A-R, ATV, ABC, Granada, YTV, Thames, Central or Carlton.

They were always regional-only with minimal input to the ITV* network
(like TTTV, Anglis, Southern, etc).

[*ITV meaning just "commercial TV" and not the Granada/Carlton combine.]

On 24/01/2023 06:22 pm, Scott wrote:

> JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:
>> On 24/01/2023 04:20 pm, Scott wrote:
>>> JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 21/01/2023 11:18 pm, MB wrote:
>>>>> On 21/01/2023 16:44, Scott wrote:
>
>>>>>> An added factor you appear to be overlooking is the effect of
>>>>>> devolution in Scotland and Wales.
>
>>>>> What effect?  Both have their own channels opting out from network. They
>>>>> do not make as many programmes as the national networks but that is to
>>>>> be expected with their smaller size and so smaller licence income.
>
>>>> They don't have ANY income direct from "licence income".
>>>> That all goes to the BBC's head office and is doled out to its regional
>>>> and local outposts (including local radio) by that head office. It is
>>>> possible that HQ might allocate "the licence fee collected in respect of
>>>> postcodes XXXXX to ZZZZZ", but that would still be a HQ decision and
>>>> allocation.
>
>>>>> The Scottish commercial TV channel seem to produce even fewer programmes
>>>>> for local viewing.
>
>>>> I expect the STV / Grampian produce as much local news and news
>>>> magazine-type programming as any English former franchise area (eg,
>>>> Anglia, Meridian, Tyne-Tees) does, plus in the case of STV from time to
>>>> time, a bit of stuff for the network ("Taggart" is the most obvious of
>>>> those over the years).
>
>>> My impression is that STV (North and Central) produce more local news
>>> than ITV when you take into account the STV late news and Scotland
>>> Tonight. .
>
>> There is late night local news on ITV. And a half-hour local news
>> magazine 18:00 - 18:30, Mon - Friday.
>
> As far as I can see, ITV London has late night news from 10:30-10:45
> (15 minutes). STV has STV News at 10:30-10:40 then Scotland Tonight
> at 10:40-11:05 (total 35 minutes).

I bet that's popular with the viewer. :-)

But... STV does not have a remit to produce programmes for "the whole of
Scotland". If it did, Border Television (ie, ITV) would have had its
large cross-border transmission area reduced. And the separate Grampian
region would have ceased to exist.

STV's bailiwick is the Central Belt, not Scotland.

On 25/01/2023 11:53 am, Scott wrote:

> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 23/01/2023 17:57, JNugent wrote:

>>>> I expect the STV / Grampian produce as much local news and news
>>>> magazine-type programming as any English former franchise area (eg,
>>>> Anglia, Meridian, Tyne-Tees) does, plus in the case of STV from time to
>>>> time, a bit of stuff for the network ("Taggart" is the most obvious of
>>>> those over the years).
>
>>> I am always surprised that STV don't appear to make any use of ITV's
>>> extra channels. But perhaps they are 'owned' by ITV and they either
>>> have no access or would have to pay to use them.
>
>> Probably not enough potential viewers to make it worth them forking out
>> for the extra channels. I frequently wonder how a large proportion of the
>> Freeview channels survive as their viewing figures must be below 6 (or even 5)
>> digits most of the time. Apparently TalkTV had a measured zero for one of
>> their programs - Tom Newton Dunns show - at some point last year.
>
> AIUI these extra channels are available in Scotland, just branded
> ITV2, ITV3 etc.

That's how they are branded nationwide.

> I wonder if STV gets a share of the advertising revenue.

Does it have a share of their ownership?

Casting one's mind back, those channels had their origins on Sky
(analogue) and Ondigital as "Granada+", "Carlton Kids", "Granada Men And
Motors", etc. Only ITV2 was branded that way from its beginning.

On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 13:28:50 +0000, JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com>
wrote:

>On 24/01/2023 06:22 pm, Scott wrote:
>
>> JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:
>>> On 24/01/2023 04:20 pm, Scott wrote:
>>>> JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 21/01/2023 11:18 pm, MB wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/01/2023 16:44, Scott wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> An added factor you appear to be overlooking is the effect of
>>>>>>> devolution in Scotland and Wales.
>>
>>>>>> What effect?  Both have their own channels opting out from network. They
>>>>>> do not make as many programmes as the national networks but that is to
>>>>>> be expected with their smaller size and so smaller licence income.
>>
>>>>> They don't have ANY income direct from "licence income".
>>>>> That all goes to the BBC's head office and is doled out to its regional
>>>>> and local outposts (including local radio) by that head office. It is
>>>>> possible that HQ might allocate "the licence fee collected in respect of
>>>>> postcodes XXXXX to ZZZZZ", but that would still be a HQ decision and
>>>>> allocation.
>>
>>>>>> The Scottish commercial TV channel seem to produce even fewer programmes
>>>>>> for local viewing.
>>
>>>>> I expect the STV / Grampian produce as much local news and news
>>>>> magazine-type programming as any English former franchise area (eg,
>>>>> Anglia, Meridian, Tyne-Tees) does, plus in the case of STV from time to
>>>>> time, a bit of stuff for the network ("Taggart" is the most obvious of
>>>>> those over the years).
>>
>>>> My impression is that STV (North and Central) produce more local news
>>>> than ITV when you take into account the STV late news and Scotland
>>>> Tonight. .
>>
>>> There is late night local news on ITV. And a half-hour local news
>>> magazine 18:00 - 18:30, Mon - Friday.
>>
>> As far as I can see, ITV London has late night news from 10:30-10:45
>> (15 minutes). STV has STV News at 10:30-10:40 then Scotland Tonight
>> at 10:40-11:05 (total 35 minutes).
>
>I bet that's popular with the viewer. :-)

I assume it is or as a commercial organisation STV would not air it. I
believe that historically STV news has been more popular then the BBC.
>
>But... STV does not have a remit to produce programmes for "the whole of
>Scotland". If it did, Border Television (ie, ITV) would have had its
>large cross-border transmission area reduced. And the separate Grampian
>region would have ceased to exist.

Grampian has ceased to exist.
>
>STV's bailiwick is the Central Belt, not Scotland.

No, you are mistaken. There are two franchises: STV Central and STV
North. The latter replaced Grampian and covers the whole of the north
of Scotland.

On 25/01/2023 13:53, Scott wrote:
> I assume it is or as a commercial organisation STV would not air it. I
> believe that historically STV news has been more popular then the BBC.

STV has a public service obligation, which almost certainly includes
news.
<https://www.gov.uk/government/news/broadcasting-reforms-to-create-new-golden-age-of-british-tv-and-help-nations-public-service-broadcasters-thrive>.

It isn't operating in an unregulated market.

On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 14:41:38 +0000, David Woolley
<david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:

>On 25/01/2023 13:53, Scott wrote:
>> I assume it is or as a commercial organisation STV would not air it. I
>> believe that historically STV news has been more popular then the BBC.
>
>STV has a public service obligation, which almost certainly includes
>news.
><https://www.gov.uk/government/news/broadcasting-reforms-to-create-new-golden-age-of-british-tv-and-help-nations-public-service-broadcasters-thrive>.
>
>It isn't operating in an unregulated market.

I was not suggesting that. I was suggesting that on the basis that
STV broadcasts more local news than ITV, it appears that STV is
exceeding its obligations (which I believe it is). Or are you saying
STV has more onerous conditions than ITV?

On 25/01/2023 01:53 pm, Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 13:28:50 +0000, JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 24/01/2023 06:22 pm, Scott wrote:
>>
>>> JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 24/01/2023 04:20 pm, Scott wrote:
>>>>> JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/01/2023 11:18 pm, MB wrote:
>>>>>>> On 21/01/2023 16:44, Scott wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> An added factor you appear to be overlooking is the effect of
>>>>>>>> devolution in Scotland and Wales.
>>>
>>>>>>> What effect?  Both have their own channels opting out from network. They
>>>>>>> do not make as many programmes as the national networks but that is to
>>>>>>> be expected with their smaller size and so smaller licence income.
>>>
>>>>>> They don't have ANY income direct from "licence income".
>>>>>> That all goes to the BBC's head office and is doled out to its regional
>>>>>> and local outposts (including local radio) by that head office. It is
>>>>>> possible that HQ might allocate "the licence fee collected in respect of
>>>>>> postcodes XXXXX to ZZZZZ", but that would still be a HQ decision and
>>>>>> allocation.
>>>
>>>>>>> The Scottish commercial TV channel seem to produce even fewer programmes
>>>>>>> for local viewing.
>>>
>>>>>> I expect the STV / Grampian produce as much local news and news
>>>>>> magazine-type programming as any English former franchise area (eg,
>>>>>> Anglia, Meridian, Tyne-Tees) does, plus in the case of STV from time to
>>>>>> time, a bit of stuff for the network ("Taggart" is the most obvious of
>>>>>> those over the years).
>>>
>>>>> My impression is that STV (North and Central) produce more local news
>>>>> than ITV when you take into account the STV late news and Scotland
>>>>> Tonight. .
>>>
>>>> There is late night local news on ITV. And a half-hour local news
>>>> magazine 18:00 - 18:30, Mon - Friday.
>>>
>>> As far as I can see, ITV London has late night news from 10:30-10:45
>>> (15 minutes). STV has STV News at 10:30-10:40 then Scotland Tonight
>>> at 10:40-11:05 (total 35 minutes).
>>
>> I bet that's popular with the viewer. :-)
>
> I assume it is or as a commercial organisation STV would not air it. I
> believe that historically STV news has been more popular then the BBC.
>>
>> But... STV does not have a remit to produce programmes for "the whole of
>> Scotland". If it did, Border Television (ie, ITV) would have had its
>> large cross-border transmission area reduced. And the separate Grampian
>> region would have ceased to exist.
>
> Grampian has ceased to exist.
>>
>> STV's bailiwick is the Central Belt, not Scotland.
>
> No, you are mistaken. There are two franchises: STV Central and STV
> North. The latter replaced Grampian and covers the whole of the north
> of Scotland.

That's just STV and Grampian with name changes.

Did Grampian, under either of its names, ever produce anything other
than local news?

How about the large swathe of lowland Scotland within the transmission
area of Border TV (as it once was) in Carlisle?

I expect its local news now comes from Manchester.

On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 16:39:03 +0000, JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com>
wrote:

>On 25/01/2023 01:53 pm, Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 13:28:50 +0000, JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 24/01/2023 06:22 pm, Scott wrote:
>>>
>>>> JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 24/01/2023 04:20 pm, Scott wrote:
>>>>>> JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 21/01/2023 11:18 pm, MB wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 21/01/2023 16:44, Scott wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> An added factor you appear to be overlooking is the effect of
>>>>>>>>> devolution in Scotland and Wales.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> What effect?  Both have their own channels opting out from network. They
>>>>>>>> do not make as many programmes as the national networks but that is to
>>>>>>>> be expected with their smaller size and so smaller licence income.
>>>>
>>>>>>> They don't have ANY income direct from "licence income".
>>>>>>> That all goes to the BBC's head office and is doled out to its regional
>>>>>>> and local outposts (including local radio) by that head office. It is
>>>>>>> possible that HQ might allocate "the licence fee collected in respect of
>>>>>>> postcodes XXXXX to ZZZZZ", but that would still be a HQ decision and
>>>>>>> allocation.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Scottish commercial TV channel seem to produce even fewer programmes
>>>>>>>> for local viewing.
>>>>
>>>>>>> I expect the STV / Grampian produce as much local news and news
>>>>>>> magazine-type programming as any English former franchise area (eg,
>>>>>>> Anglia, Meridian, Tyne-Tees) does, plus in the case of STV from time to
>>>>>>> time, a bit of stuff for the network ("Taggart" is the most obvious of
>>>>>>> those over the years).
>>>>
>>>>>> My impression is that STV (North and Central) produce more local news
>>>>>> than ITV when you take into account the STV late news and Scotland
>>>>>> Tonight. .
>>>>
>>>>> There is late night local news on ITV. And a half-hour local news
>>>>> magazine 18:00 - 18:30, Mon - Friday.
>>>>
>>>> As far as I can see, ITV London has late night news from 10:30-10:45
>>>> (15 minutes). STV has STV News at 10:30-10:40 then Scotland Tonight
>>>> at 10:40-11:05 (total 35 minutes).
>>>
>>> I bet that's popular with the viewer. :-)
>>
>> I assume it is or as a commercial organisation STV would not air it. I
>> believe that historically STV news has been more popular then the BBC.
>>>
>>> But... STV does not have a remit to produce programmes for "the whole of
>>> Scotland". If it did, Border Television (ie, ITV) would have had its
>>> large cross-border transmission area reduced. And the separate Grampian
>>> region would have ceased to exist.
>>
>> Grampian has ceased to exist.
>>>
>>> STV's bailiwick is the Central Belt, not Scotland.
>>
>> No, you are mistaken. There are two franchises: STV Central and STV
>> North. The latter replaced Grampian and covers the whole of the north
>> of Scotland.
>
>That's just STV and Grampian with name changes.

No, it's clear evidence that you were talking nonsense when you
claimed STV's remit was central Scotland only.
>
>Did Grampian, under either of its names, ever produce anything other
>than local news?

I think there were variations in the Grampian schedule. If this has
any relevance to the argument (which I cannot see) you could always
try Google.
>
>How about the large swathe of lowland Scotland within the transmission
>area of Border TV (as it once was) in Carlisle?
>
>I expect its local news now comes from Manchester.

Try Carlisle: https://www.itv.com/news/border/2012-03-04/contact-us

On 25/01/2023 16:39, JNugent wrote:
> That's just STV and Grampian with name changes.
>
> Did Grampian, under either of its names, ever produce anything other
> than local news?
>
> How about the large swathe of lowland Scotland within the transmission
> area of Border TV (as it once was) in Carlisle?
>
> I expect its local news now comes from Manchester.

Yes they did used to do some non-news programmes. I remember a medical
programme on new discoveried which I think was Grampian rather than STV.
I think they have also done some programmes about the oil industry.

They did do quite a number of local programmes in the past, even some
Gaelic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grampian_Television

At one time a local politician wanted Fort William area to get Grampian!

In article <tqrp8f$oiam$3@dont-email.me>,
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 25/01/2023 16:39, JNugent wrote:
> > That's just STV and Grampian with name changes.
> >
> > Did Grampian, under either of its names, ever produce anything other
> > than local news?
> >
> > How about the large swathe of lowland Scotland within the transmission
> > area of Border TV (as it once was) in Carlisle?
> >
> > I expect its local news now comes from Manchester.

> Yes they did used to do some non-news programmes. I remember a medical
> programme on new discoveried which I think was Grampian rather than STV.
> I think they have also done some programmes about the oil industry.

> They did do quite a number of local programmes in the past, even some
> Gaelic.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grampian_Television

> At one time a local politician wanted Fort William area to get Grampian!

Well, the distribution for 405 gave them BBC Aberdeen

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 25/01/2023 05:04 pm, Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 16:39:03 +0000, JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 25/01/2023 01:53 pm, Scott wrote:
>>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 13:28:50 +0000, JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 24/01/2023 06:22 pm, Scott wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 24/01/2023 04:20 pm, Scott wrote:
>>>>>>> JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 21/01/2023 11:18 pm, MB wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 21/01/2023 16:44, Scott wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> An added factor you appear to be overlooking is the effect of
>>>>>>>>>> devolution in Scotland and Wales.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What effect?  Both have their own channels opting out from network. They
>>>>>>>>> do not make as many programmes as the national networks but that is to
>>>>>>>>> be expected with their smaller size and so smaller licence income.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They don't have ANY income direct from "licence income".
>>>>>>>> That all goes to the BBC's head office and is doled out to its regional
>>>>>>>> and local outposts (including local radio) by that head office. It is
>>>>>>>> possible that HQ might allocate "the licence fee collected in respect of
>>>>>>>> postcodes XXXXX to ZZZZZ", but that would still be a HQ decision and
>>>>>>>> allocation.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Scottish commercial TV channel seem to produce even fewer programmes
>>>>>>>>> for local viewing.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I expect the STV / Grampian produce as much local news and news
>>>>>>>> magazine-type programming as any English former franchise area (eg,
>>>>>>>> Anglia, Meridian, Tyne-Tees) does, plus in the case of STV from time to
>>>>>>>> time, a bit of stuff for the network ("Taggart" is the most obvious of
>>>>>>>> those over the years).
>>>>>
>>>>>>> My impression is that STV (North and Central) produce more local news
>>>>>>> than ITV when you take into account the STV late news and Scotland
>>>>>>> Tonight. .
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is late night local news on ITV. And a half-hour local news
>>>>>> magazine 18:00 - 18:30, Mon - Friday.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as I can see, ITV London has late night news from 10:30-10:45
>>>>> (15 minutes). STV has STV News at 10:30-10:40 then Scotland Tonight
>>>>> at 10:40-11:05 (total 35 minutes).
>>>>
>>>> I bet that's popular with the viewer. :-)
>>>
>>> I assume it is or as a commercial organisation STV would not air it. I
>>> believe that historically STV news has been more popular then the BBC.
>>>>
>>>> But... STV does not have a remit to produce programmes for "the whole of
>>>> Scotland". If it did, Border Television (ie, ITV) would have had its
>>>> large cross-border transmission area reduced. And the separate Grampian
>>>> region would have ceased to exist.
>>>
>>> Grampian has ceased to exist.
>>>>
>>>> STV's bailiwick is the Central Belt, not Scotland.
>>>
>>> No, you are mistaken. There are two franchises: STV Central and STV
>>> North. The latter replaced Grampian and covers the whole of the north
>>> of Scotland.
>>
>> That's just STV and Grampian with name changes.
>
> No, it's clear evidence that you were talking nonsense when you
> claimed STV's remit was central Scotland only.

Have the regional transmission areas been changed since the franchises
were last renewed?

They haven't in England. STV was not the ITV contractor for the whole of
Scotland. And still isn't. Just for the Central Belt (as I understand
the region is known). There were and are two other contractors for Scotland.
>
>> Did Grampian, under either of its names, ever produce anything other
>> than local news?
>
> I think there were variations in the Grampian schedule.

That isn't the same thing, as you are aware. Regional contractors have
always jealously guarded their independence and sometimes transmitted
network programmes at idiosyncratic times, even days of the week.

> If this has
> any relevance to the argument (which I cannot see) you could always
> try Google.
>
>> How about the large swathe of lowland Scotland within the transmission
>> area of Border TV (as it once was) in Carlisle?
>
>> I expect its local news now comes from Manchester.
>
> Try Carlisle: https://www.itv.com/news/border/2012-03-04/contact-us

Whew... an ITV contractor keeping its promises. If only the rest of them
had done the same.

On 25/01/2023 05:35 pm, MB wrote:

> On 25/01/2023 16:39, JNugent wrote:

>> That's just STV and Grampian with name changes.
>> Did Grampian, under either of its names, ever produce anything other
>> than local news?
>
>> How about the large swathe of lowland Scotland within the transmission
>> area of Border TV (as it once was) in Carlisle?
>
>> I expect its local news now comes from Manchester.
>
> Yes they did used to do some non-news programmes.  I remember a medical
> programme on new discoveried which I think was Grampian rather than STV.
> I think they have also done some programmes about the oil industry.

Yes, that's understandable. Offhand, though, I don't recall ever seeing
a Grampian-made programme on the network (ie, in England).

> They did do quite a number of local programmes in the past, even some
> Gaelic.

You're reminding me now of "Naked Video".

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grampian_Television

> At one time a local politician wanted Fort William area to get Grampian!

I can't pretend that I'm totally familiar with the line of the border
between STV and Grampian, but I would have assumed that Fort William was
on the Grampian side of it. But having already checked the wiki page for
Grampian, perhaps I was thinking of some other "Fort" town.

On 25/01/2023 17:53, charles wrote:
> Well, the distribution for 405 gave them BBC Aberdeen

He seemed to think it was a simple matter of switching Cow Hill or
Torosay to carry Grampian and BBC from that direction!

Sure people in Oban would have just loved it!

On 25/01/2023 21:51, JNugent wrote:
> Yes, that's understandable. Offhand, though, I don't recall ever seeing
> a Grampian-made programme on the network (ie, in England).

I think there was a locally made programme about Piper Alpha that got
some awards that was show nationally but can't remember if it was BBC or
ITV.

On 21/01/2023 13:21, Max Demian wrote:
> On 21/01/2023 12:27, MB wrote:
>> On 21/01/2023 10:00, Scott wrote:
>>> Actually, a lot of it probably is written - just not all in one place.
>
>> I am no expert on the Consitution but I think the diifference is that
>> our one is more flexible and relying on precedent but ones like the US
>> one are inflexible and almost worshipped like the muslims with their
>> book.
>
> If the US constitution had been any good it wouldn't have needed so many
> amendments.
>

One of the worst bits is an amendment.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 25/01/2023 09:54 pm, MB wrote:

> On 25/01/2023 21:51, JNugent wrote:

>> Yes, that's understandable. Offhand, though, I don't recall ever seeing
>> a Grampian-made programme on the network (ie, in England).
>
> I think there was a locally made programme about Piper Alpha that got
> some awards that was show nationally but can't remember if it was BBC or
> ITV.

According to imdb.com, the programme - "Fire In The Night" - was made by
Scottish Television (was that before or after the name change for
Grampian? Grampian) but was shown on BBC2 in 2013 rather than on the ITV
network.

I expect a network slot on BBC2 was available, whereas Granada / Carlton
couldn't fit it in between their roster of chav-feed and the overnight
gambling.

See:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_in_the_Night_(2013_film)#:~:text=Fire%20in%20the%20Night%20is,the%20events%20of%20the%20disaster.>
>

and:

<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2620290/>

On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 21:42:47 +0000, JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com>
wrote:

>On 25/01/2023 05:04 pm, Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 16:39:03 +0000, JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/01/2023 01:53 pm, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 13:28:50 +0000, JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 24/01/2023 06:22 pm, Scott wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 24/01/2023 04:20 pm, Scott wrote:
>>>>>>>> JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 21/01/2023 11:18 pm, MB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 21/01/2023 16:44, Scott wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> An added factor you appear to be overlooking is the effect of
>>>>>>>>>>> devolution in Scotland and Wales.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What effect?  Both have their own channels opting out from network. They
>>>>>>>>>> do not make as many programmes as the national networks but that is to
>>>>>>>>>> be expected with their smaller size and so smaller licence income.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They don't have ANY income direct from "licence income".
>>>>>>>>> That all goes to the BBC's head office and is doled out to its regional
>>>>>>>>> and local outposts (including local radio) by that head office. It is
>>>>>>>>> possible that HQ might allocate "the licence fee collected in respect of
>>>>>>>>> postcodes XXXXX to ZZZZZ", but that would still be a HQ decision and
>>>>>>>>> allocation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Scottish commercial TV channel seem to produce even fewer programmes
>>>>>>>>>> for local viewing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I expect the STV / Grampian produce as much local news and news
>>>>>>>>> magazine-type programming as any English former franchise area (eg,
>>>>>>>>> Anglia, Meridian, Tyne-Tees) does, plus in the case of STV from time to
>>>>>>>>> time, a bit of stuff for the network ("Taggart" is the most obvious of
>>>>>>>>> those over the years).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My impression is that STV (North and Central) produce more local news
>>>>>>>> than ITV when you take into account the STV late news and Scotland
>>>>>>>> Tonight. .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is late night local news on ITV. And a half-hour local news
>>>>>>> magazine 18:00 - 18:30, Mon - Friday.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I can see, ITV London has late night news from 10:30-10:45
>>>>>> (15 minutes). STV has STV News at 10:30-10:40 then Scotland Tonight
>>>>>> at 10:40-11:05 (total 35 minutes).
>>>>>
>>>>> I bet that's popular with the viewer. :-)
>>>>
>>>> I assume it is or as a commercial organisation STV would not air it. I
>>>> believe that historically STV news has been more popular then the BBC.
>>>>>
>>>>> But... STV does not have a remit to produce programmes for "the whole of
>>>>> Scotland". If it did, Border Television (ie, ITV) would have had its
>>>>> large cross-border transmission area reduced. And the separate Grampian
>>>>> region would have ceased to exist.
>>>>
>>>> Grampian has ceased to exist.
>>>>>
>>>>> STV's bailiwick is the Central Belt, not Scotland.
>>>>
>>>> No, you are mistaken. There are two franchises: STV Central and STV
>>>> North. The latter replaced Grampian and covers the whole of the north
>>>> of Scotland.
>>>
>>> That's just STV and Grampian with name changes.
>>
>> No, it's clear evidence that you were talking nonsense when you
>> claimed STV's remit was central Scotland only.
>
>Have the regional transmission areas been changed since the franchises
>were last renewed?

I suspect not. I believe the digital footprint is the same. However,
for those on satellite or cable, who knows? It probably depends on
the postcode you enter.
>
>They haven't in England. STV was not the ITV contractor for the whole of
>Scotland. And still isn't. Just for the Central Belt (as I understand
>the region is known). There were and are two other contractors for Scotland.

Agreed. But STV then took over Grampian and formed two franchises -
STV (Central) and STV (North) that are integrated in much the same way
as the ITV regions. Whether this constitutes two 'contractors'
(technicaly now franchisees, not contractors) is debatable. I suppose
every legacy ITV company is the franchisee in law but for all
practical purposes ITV is the network, as is STV (excluding Border of
course).
>>
>>> Did Grampian, under either of its names, ever produce anything other
>>> than local news?
>>
>> I think there were variations in the Grampian schedule.
>
>That isn't the same thing, as you are aware. Regional contractors have
>always jealously guarded their independence and sometimes transmitted
>network programmes at idiosyncratic times, even days of the week.

I cannot answer this question.

>> If this has
>> any relevance to the argument (which I cannot see) you could always
>> try Google.
>>
>>> How about the large swathe of lowland Scotland within the transmission
>>> area of Border TV (as it once was) in Carlisle?
>>
>>> I expect its local news now comes from Manchester.
>>
>> Try Carlisle: https://www.itv.com/news/border/2012-03-04/contact-us
>
>Whew... an ITV contractor keeping its promises. If only the rest of them
>had done the same.

On that note, I still maintain STV is exceeding its news obligation.

Nobody noticed I mistyped the percentage...

Andy