My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
miles.

I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
on that if you will.

Then there are these oil sucker-outer machines which make DIY change
easier, opinions on these seem to differ....

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 15:29:19 +0100, R D S wrote:

> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
> the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
> miles.
>
> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
> on that if you will.
>
> Then there are these oil sucker-outer machines which make DIY change
> easier, opinions on these seem to differ....

They used to be on many petrol station forecourts in the sixties and you
could do an oil change on the spot. In those days we also used an
intermediate flushing oil.

On 25/04/2022 15:29, R D S wrote:
> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
> the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
> miles.
>
> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
> on that if you will.
>
> Then there are these oil sucker-outer machines which make DIY change
> easier, opinions on these seem to differ....

The main argument for the formula "12k or 12 months, whichever is
sooner" is about the fact that oil oxidation leads to the formation of
acids which, in the presence of traces of moisture in the oil can
corrode ferrous and other surfaces. Given that modern oils have pretty
good anti-corrosion and anti-oxidation additives (also semi-synth or
fully synth oils will oxidise less), I think you will get away with
this. My cars do less than 12k a year, I tend to get an oil change and
service with the MOT because I'm not particularly cost-sensitive. But I
only "maintained on failure" with my old tractor, now replaced by an ATV
so they were both running on five to 10 year old oil. Similarly for my
assorted mowers, strimmers, trimmers, and chain saws.

I remember the days where you did an annual oil change on gearboxes and
back axles.

I did see an oil sucker in Lidl a few weeks ago, I just managed to
resist it on the grounds that I've left this to my mechanic mate for ten
years or so.

R D S <rsandr@yahoo.com> wrote:
> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
> the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
> miles.
>
> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
> on that if you will.
>
> Then there are these oil sucker-outer machines which make DIY change
> easier, opinions on these seem to differ....
>

I’ve always changed my oil every year ( or 6 mths in the days it was 6 mths
etc) or, in the days I did a lot of miles, at the recommended mileage if
earlier. For the cost of oil and filter, plus a minimal amount of time, I
regard it was money well spent.

Our Ducato has a specified 24 mth / 24 k ( I think that is the mileage)
interval. I follow it but it seems a long time. That said, I suspect most
do 24k miles in a year or less while motorhomes - even well used ones- tend
to do a few thousand per year. The recommended oil is £80 a fill !

As for the pumps which suck out the oil, I wouldn’t use them. Some Smart
cars don’t have a sump plug ( I think the 450s or early 451s.). A standard
modification is to replace the sump with a modified one. When we bought
our Smart Car, the first thing I checked while looking for one is they had
a sump plug. Ours was a 451- we replaced it last summer.

On 25/04/2022 15:58, jon wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 15:29:19 +0100, R D S wrote:
>
>> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
>> the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
>> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
>> miles.
>>
>> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
>> on that if you will.
>>
>> Then there are these oil sucker-outer machines which make DIY change
>> easier, opinions on these seem to differ....
>
> They used to be on many petrol station forecourts in the sixties and you
> could do an oil change on the spot. In those days we also used an
> intermediate flushing oil.

Cheapskates used 50:50 oil and paraffin for that!

On 25/04/2022 15:29, R D S wrote:
> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
> the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
> miles.
>
> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
> on that if you will.

If you leave it in for long enough then the oil filter casing will rust
away from the outside! If you are hardly using the vehicle then it
strikes me that the oil is fairly safe from accumulating debris. Just
check from time to time that there is still enough oil in the sump.

I'd be more worried about hydraulic brake fluid absorbing moisture than
the oil becoming too old. Provided there is still enough of it I would
be inclined to leave it for up to 3-5 years between services. Modern
synthetic oils are now fairly resistant to forming acidic compounds.

I do fairly high mileage so the problem hardly ever arises. Lockdown
years have been unusual but it still had one oil service last summer.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

R D S wrote:

> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since the one
> 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further miles.
>
> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions on that
> if you will.
>
> Then there are these oil sucker-outer machines which make DIY change easier,
> opinions on these seem to differ....

My car was in similar position last year, garage was not doing collect/deliver
as they'd furloughed all their drivers, not doing loan cars, so then it involves
two buses or a bus and a 3 mile walk each way.

So I bought one of the oil suckers and did it myself.

On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 00:29:19 +1000, R D S <rsandr@yahoo.com> wrote:

> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
> the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
> miles.
>
> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
> on that if you will.

I can't see any good reason not to do that chemistry or physics wise.

The main reason for changing the oil is combustion products
ending up in the oil, mostly acids and that isn't going to happen
as much if the car isn't used much. Tho I spose you can claim
that if say the few miles a year are due to lots of very short trips
say just to do the weekly food shopping, the engine is less likely
to get hot enough for long enough to boil off the acids as much.

But otoh, how many actually keep a car for long enough to see
enough corrosion in the engine to need the car being replaced
even with those who never bother to change the oil at all.

> Then there are these oil sucker-outer machines which make DIY change
> easier, opinions on these seem to differ....

Can't see how they can get most of the old oil out. But again,
does it really matter ?

On 25/04/2022 16:58, Andy Burns wrote:
> R D S wrote:
>
>> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
>> the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
>> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
>> miles.
>>
>> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
>> on that if you will.
>>
>> Then there are these oil sucker-outer machines which make DIY change
>> easier, opinions on these seem to differ....
>
> My car was in similar position last year, garage was not doing
> collect/deliver as they'd furloughed all their drivers, not doing loan
> cars, so then it involves two buses or a bus and a 3 mile walk each way.
>
> So I bought one of the oil suckers and did it myself.

I had no oil change during lockdown years but only did about 7K miles in
the two years. I did however when visiting the supermarkets do a long
round trip to ensure that the engine was up to temperature and I also
exercised the AC every time to ensure that the seals were lubricated.
The 7k miles did however include 8 off 4/5hour motorway journeys.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 25/04/2022 15:29, R D S wrote:
> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
> the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
> miles.
>
> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
> on that if you will.
>
> Then there are these oil sucker-outer machines which make DIY change
> easier, opinions on these seem to differ....
I don't have expert knowledge, but would be dubious about using a sucker
because it may not get any sludge out and you wouldn't be able to check
for metallic particles. My days of DIY car repairs (including
engine/gearbox rebuilds and two kit cars) are behind me but it's not
difficult to cut-open the side of an oil can and undo the sump plug (or
wasn't when I last did it).
One concern with piston aero engines is that the moist air enters as the
engine cools and leads to corrosion of the cam (in particular) and
contamination of the oil - hence the need to regularly run the engine
and to make sure it is held at temperature ... even if not flown. I
can't see why a car engine would be different (?)

On 25/04/2022 16:53, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 25/04/2022 15:29, R D S wrote:
>> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
>> the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
>> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
>> miles.
>>
>> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
>> on that if you will.
>
> If you leave it in for long enough then the oil filter casing will rust
> away from the outside!

Why? Pressed steel sumps never did, even though much of the paint flaked
off in fifteen years or so. I have never seen significant corrosion on
an oil filter.

> If you are hardly using the vehicle then it
> strikes me that the oil is fairly safe from accumulating debris. Just
> check from time to time that there is still enough oil in the sump.
>
> I'd be more worried about hydraulic brake fluid absorbing moisture than
> the oil becoming too old. Provided there is still enough of it I would
> be inclined to leave it for up to 3-5 years between services. Modern
> synthetic oils are now fairly resistant to forming acidic compounds.
>
> I do fairly high mileage so the problem hardly ever arises. Lockdown
> years have been unusual but it still had one oil service last summer.
>

On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 06:25:09 +1000, newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 25/04/2022 16:53, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 25/04/2022 15:29, R D S wrote:
>>> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
>>> the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
>>> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
>>> miles.
>>>
>>> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
>>> on that if you will.
>> If you leave it in for long enough then the oil filter casing will
>> rust away from the outside!
>
> Why? Pressed steel sumps never did, even though much of the paint flaked
> off in fifteen years or so. I have never seen significant corrosion on
> an oil filter.

Me neither and with the 73 Golf, didn't do any oil changes at all
in the last 40 years with daily use of the car because it used enough
so that topping up was all it needed. Never failed the emission test.

Doesn't work with the Getz, after about 5 years you can hear the
engine sounding a bit different, so do an oil and filter change then.
I haven't bothered to see if its the oil or the filter that matters.

>> If you are hardly using the vehicle then it strikes me that the oil is
>> fairly safe from accumulating debris. Just check from time to time that
>> there is still enough oil in the sump.
>> I'd be more worried about hydraulic brake fluid absorbing moisture
>> than the oil becoming too old. Provided there is still enough of it I
>> would be inclined to leave it for up to 3-5 years between services.
>> Modern synthetic oils are now fairly resistant to forming acidic
>> compounds.
>> I do fairly high mileage so the problem hardly ever arises. Lockdown
>> years have been unusual but it still had one oil service last summer.
>>

On Monday, 25 April 2022 at 16:09:33 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
> On 25/04/2022 15:58, jon wrote:
> > On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 15:29:19 +0100, R D S wrote:
> >
> >> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
> >> the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
> >> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
> >> miles.
> >>
> >> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
> >> on that if you will.
> >>
> >> Then there are these oil sucker-outer machines which make DIY change
> >> easier, opinions on these seem to differ....
> >
> > They used to be on many petrol station forecourts in the sixties and you
> > could do an oil change on the spot. In those days we also used an
> > intermediate flushing oil.
> Cheapskates used 50:50 oil and paraffin for that!

Paraffin's perfectly effective. AFAIK there's no need to use an intermediate mix, just add a little paraffin to the existing oil, warm up & drain out. Only if you've got a horrid situation in there would flushes be worthwhile.

nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:

> I don't have expert knowledge, but would be dubious about using a sucker because
> it may not get any sludge out

Main dealers use them, don't they?

On 26/04/2022 03:15, Animal wrote:
> On Monday, 25 April 2022 at 16:09:33 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
>> On 25/04/2022 15:58, jon wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 15:29:19 +0100, R D S wrote:
>>>
>>>> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
>>>> the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
>>>> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
>>>> miles.
>>>>
>>>> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
>>>> on that if you will.
>>>>
>>>> Then there are these oil sucker-outer machines which make DIY change
>>>> easier, opinions on these seem to differ....
>>>
>>> They used to be on many petrol station forecourts in the sixties and you
>>> could do an oil change on the spot. In those days we also used an
>>> intermediate flushing oil.
>> Cheapskates used 50:50 oil and paraffin for that!
>
> Paraffin's perfectly effective. AFAIK there's no need to use an intermediate mix, just add a little paraffin to the existing oil, warm up & drain out. Only if you've got a horrid situation in there would flushes be worthwhile.

Wasn't this just another garage scam? Charge for an engine flush but in
reality just drain the old and put in the new.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 26/04/2022 06:47, Andy Burns wrote:
> nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
>
>> I don't have expert knowledge, but would be dubious about using a
>> sucker because it may not get any sludge out
>
> Main dealers use them, don't they?
>
That would surprise me, but I've been surprised before. Time to switch
to an independent.

On 25/04/2022 21:25, newshound wrote:
> On 25/04/2022 16:53, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 25/04/2022 15:29, R D S wrote:
>>> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles
>>> since the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
>>> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k
>>> further miles.
>>>
>>> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year,
>>> opinions on that if you will.
>>
>> If you leave it in for long enough then the oil filter casing will
>> rust away from the outside!
>
> Why? Pressed steel sumps never did, even though much of the paint flaked
> off in fifteen years or so. I have never seen significant corrosion on
> an oil filter.

I have at about the 5 year mark. A combination of our damp UK winters
and salty grit impacts (and a not very friendly location of the filter).
Low mileage vehicle too but often used in bad weather and quite likely
put away in a nice warm garage whilst still wet with salt.

It didn't quite leak but it was definitely well on its way.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 14:58:08 +0000, jon wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 15:29:19 +0100, R D S wrote:
>
>> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
>> the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
>> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
>> miles.
>>
>> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
>> on that if you will.
>>
>> Then there are these oil sucker-outer machines which make DIY change
>> easier, opinions on these seem to differ....
>
> They used to be on many petrol station forecourts in the sixties and you
> could do an oil change on the spot. In those days we also used an
> intermediate flushing oil.

My car uses a synthetic oil...

Is synthetic oil better for your car's engine than conventional oil?
Yes. Although conventional oil provides adequate lubrication, it doesn't
compete with synthetic oil's overall engine protection and performance.

Synthetic oils are created with base oils which are of a higher quality
than conventional, less-refined base oils. These higher quality base oils
make synthetics:

Less likely to acidify and oxidise
More chemically stable
Harder to break down and lose desired qualities
Consumer Reports says that fully synthetic oils provide superior engine
protection and performance over any synthetic blend or conventional motor
oil.

On 26/04/2022 16:23, jon wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 14:58:08 +0000, jon wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 15:29:19 +0100, R D S wrote:
>>
>>> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
>>> the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
>>> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
>>> miles.
>>>
>>> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
>>> on that if you will.
>>>
>>> Then there are these oil sucker-outer machines which make DIY change
>>> easier, opinions on these seem to differ....
>>
>> They used to be on many petrol station forecourts in the sixties and you
>> could do an oil change on the spot. In those days we also used an
>> intermediate flushing oil.
>
> My car uses a synthetic oil...
>
> Is synthetic oil better for your car's engine than conventional oil?
> Yes. Although conventional oil provides adequate lubrication, it doesn't
> compete with synthetic oil's overall engine protection and performance.
>
> Synthetic oils are created with base oils which are of a higher quality
> than conventional, less-refined base oils. These higher quality base oils
> make synthetics:
>
> Less likely to acidify and oxidise
> More chemically stable
> Harder to break down and lose desired qualities
> Consumer Reports says that fully synthetic oils provide superior engine
> protection and performance over any synthetic blend or conventional motor
> oil.

This might only be for the US market, but be aware of what fully
synthetic means:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil
Which says, "Full synthetic" is a marketing term and is not a measurable
quality.

On 26/04/2022 03:15, Animal wrote:
> On Monday, 25 April 2022 at 16:09:33 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
>> On 25/04/2022 15:58, jon wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 15:29:19 +0100, R D S wrote:
>>>
>>>> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles since
>>>> the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
>>>> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k further
>>>> miles.
>>>>
>>>> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year, opinions
>>>> on that if you will.
>>>>
>>>> Then there are these oil sucker-outer machines which make DIY change
>>>> easier, opinions on these seem to differ....
>>>
>>> They used to be on many petrol station forecourts in the sixties and you
>>> could do an oil change on the spot. In those days we also used an
>>> intermediate flushing oil.
>> Cheapskates used 50:50 oil and paraffin for that!
>
> Paraffin's perfectly effective. AFAIK there's no need to use an intermediate mix, just add a little paraffin to the existing oil, warm up & drain out. Only if you've got a horrid situation in there would flushes be worthwhile.

Most non-franchised garages scam the punter with the line
"Oil flush treatment £NN.NNN" on the invoice, when in fact
they have nothing whatsoever.

On 25/04/2022 21:25, newshound wrote:
> On 25/04/2022 16:53, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 25/04/2022 15:29, R D S wrote:
>>> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles
>>> since the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
>>> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k
>>> further miles.
>>>
>>> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year,
>>> opinions on that if you will.
>>
>> If you leave it in for long enough then the oil filter casing will
>> rust away from the outside!
>
> Why? Pressed steel sumps never did, even though much of the paint flaked
> off in fifteen years or so. I have never seen significant corrosion on
> an oil filter.
>
+1000

Oil contains a variety of anti-corrosive additives and modern
engines rely on them. The days when a garage could buy 200 gallons
of 20/50 and use it in every car are long gone. Visit any
garage and you will see a collection of oil containers with maybe
a litre or 1/2 a litre left over, and each will have a different
specification for different vehicles.

On 26/04/2022 11:47, nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
> On 26/04/2022 06:47, Andy Burns wrote:
>> nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
>>
>>> I don't have expert knowledge, but would be dubious about using a
>>> sucker because it may not get any sludge out
>>
>> Main dealers use them, don't they?
>>
> That would surprise me, but I've been surprised before. Time to switch
> to an independent.

And then you will be hit with the "Oil Flush Treatment" scam.

On 26/04/2022 16:23, jon wrote:

<snipped>
>
> Is synthetic oil better for your car's engine than conventional oil?
> Yes. Although conventional oil provides adequate lubrication, it doesn't
> compete with synthetic oil's overall engine protection and performance.

Plagiarism abounds...

https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a32879214/synthetic-oil/

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/auto-care/all-about-oil/learn-about-motor-oil/synthetic-oil-vs-conventional-oil

--
Cheers
Clive

On 29/04/2022 14:00, Clive Arthur wrote:
> On 26/04/2022 16:23, jon wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>>
>> Is synthetic oil better for your car's engine than conventional oil?
>> Yes. Although conventional oil provides adequate lubrication, it doesn't
>> compete with synthetic oil's overall engine protection and performance.
>
> Plagiarism abounds...
>
> https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a32879214/synthetic-oil/
>
> https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/auto-care/all-about-oil/learn-about-motor-oil/synthetic-oil-vs-conventional-oil
>
>

Modern cars are designed to run much hotter than those made 30+ years
ago. Such high temperatures cannot be withstood by mineral oil and
hence the need for synthetic or semi-synthetic oils.

If your car needs synthetic oil then you must use it. If your
doesn't need synthetic oil don't waste money (twice as expensive)
on it.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 22:41:59 +1000, Andrew
<Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:

> On 25/04/2022 21:25, newshound wrote:
>> On 25/04/2022 16:53, Martin Brown wrote:
>>> On 25/04/2022 15:29, R D S wrote:
>>>> My car was due a service last year but it had only done 4k miles
>>>> since the one 12 months prior so I didn't bother.
>>>> It's coming up to another 12 months and has done fewer than 1k
>>>> further miles.
>>>>
>>>> I read that oil shouldn't be left in the car year after year,
>>>> opinions on that if you will.
>>>
>>> If you leave it in for long enough then the oil filter casing will
>>> rust away from the outside!
>> Why? Pressed steel sumps never did, even though much of the paint
>> flaked off in fifteen years or so. I have never seen significant
>> corrosion on an oil filter.
>>
> +1000
>
> Oil contains a variety of anti-corrosive additives and modern
> engines rely on them. The days when a garage could buy 200 gallons
> of 20/50 and use it in every car are long gone. Visit any
> garage and you will see a collection of oil containers with maybe
> a litre or 1/2 a litre left over, and each will have a different
> specification for different vehicles.

That isn't what happened when I managed to forget to check
the oil level in mine for the MOT and agreed to have it topped
up in front of me. It came out of a 20l drum and there weren't
a lot of those drums of engine oil.

And when you do it yourself, the operations selling the oil
don't have 4 or 5l containers by car brand and model, just
have about 10 different types, everythng from dinosaur oil
to partly synthetic to fully synthetic and a variety of thickness
grades and a few specialist oils like for diesel engines.