Comments please, from anyone who has had panels on the roof for a number
of years. Pros and cons? Pitfalls? Economics?

Bill

On Sun, 01 May 2022 16:20:31 +0100, williamwright wrote:

> Comments please, from anyone who has had panels on the roof for a number
> of years. Pros and cons? Pitfalls? Economics?
>
> Bill

I've had them since late 2011. They were more expensive then than now, my
installation cost £11,500, but the F.I.T. was higher than now and remains
higher than for later installations. To date I've received £20k+ in
F.I.T. and before the usual moaners complain don't forget I pay 'green
taxes' too, so I'm getting my own back and a bit more. The only expense
I've had was when pidgeons started nesting between the panels and the
tiles and the soggy nest material caused one panel to develop a low
resistance which stopped the inverter starting up at sunrise. I got the
installer in and after checking the system he said the duff panel needed
replacing and that needed £600 worth of scaffolding. When they replaced
the panel I had them install wire mesh round the outside of the array to
stop birds getting in. The total bill was £2k+, so I'm still in profit.
Another plus is that I import less leccy in daylight so there's a saving
there as well.

--
TOJ.

On 01/05/2022 16:20, williamwright wrote:

> Comments please, from anyone who has had panels on the roof for a number
> of years. Pros and cons? Pitfalls? Economics?

From the point of view of energy saving or revenue generation? Also
with or without storage?

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 01/05/2022 19:26, John Rumm wrote:
> On 01/05/2022 16:20, williamwright wrote:
>
>> Comments please, from anyone who has had panels on the roof for a
>> number of years. Pros and cons? Pitfalls? Economics?
>
> From the point of view of energy saving or revenue generation? Also
> with or without storage?
>
>

FITs payments are around 5p/kWh for new installations so cannot be
compared with those paid (and still paid) to those with older
installations.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 01/05/2022 19:26, John Rumm wrote:
> On 01/05/2022 16:20, williamwright wrote:
>
>> Comments please, from anyone who has had panels on the roof for a
>> number of years. Pros and cons? Pitfalls? Economics?
>
> From the point of view of energy saving or revenue generation? Also
> with or without storage?
>
>

Just to save money. Batteries a possibility.

Bill

On 1 May 2022 at 19:26:44 BST, "John Rumm" <see.my.signature@nowhere.null>
wrote:

> On 01/05/2022 16:20, williamwright wrote:
>
>> Comments please, from anyone who has had panels on the roof for a number
>> of years. Pros and cons? Pitfalls? Economics?
>
> From the point of view of energy saving or revenue generation? Also
> with or without storage?

Environmental impact, practicality (planning, aspect etc.), value of home,
aesthetics, reliability and maintenance . . .

--
Cheers, Rob

On 01/05/2022 16:20, williamwright wrote:
> Comments please, from anyone who has had panels on the roof for a number of years. Pros and cons? Pitfalls? Economics?

We've had ~4kW of panels on our roof from just before the FIT payments were reduced, maybe 8 years ago. It has generated slightly more than the predicted amount of power averaged over the year every year, despite slight shading by a tree during winter months, and has been completely trouble-free so far. It paid for the installation a year or two back. FIT payments much lower now, but so are the costs of solar panels. Whether it's still economical: you have to do the calculations.

The only downside is getting junk mail and phone calls from time to time from dodgy firms who have got our address from somewhere and want to sell us maintenance/cleaning/new inverter etc.

--
Clive Page

On 02/05/2022 16:41, Clive Page wrote:
> The only downside is getting junk mail and phone calls from time to time
> from dodgy firms who have got our address from somewhere and want to
> sell us maintenance/cleaning/new inverter etc.

They look on Google maps for solar panels.

Bill

williamwright wrote:

>On 02/05/2022 16:41, Clive Page wrote:
>> The only downside is getting junk mail and phone calls from time to time
>> from dodgy firms who have got our address from somewhere and want to
>> sell us maintenance/cleaning/new inverter etc.
>
>They look on Google maps for solar panels.

I think it is easier than that, they simply (mis)use the national
database of installations.

My 2010 installation is 3.64 kWp, performs slightly better than
the predictions, and has generated over 40 MWh. The original cost
was around £14.5k, and currently I am over £9k in profit.

No problems to date.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 02/05/2022 03:17, williamwright wrote:
> On 01/05/2022 19:26, John Rumm wrote:
>> On 01/05/2022 16:20, williamwright wrote:
>>
>>> Comments please, from anyone who has had panels on the roof for a
>>> number of years. Pros and cons? Pitfalls? Economics?
>>
>>  From the point of view of energy saving or revenue generation? Also
>> with or without storage?
>>
>>
>
> Just to save money. Batteries a possibility.
>
> Bill

From my limited experience since last October I would say the battery
is what makes PV worthwhile in the absence of subsidies.

I have not imported electricity since March 5th ( not quite true as
there is always a 1/3 unit imported because of the way the PV and
battery are not quick enough to compare currents) and my consumption is
about 7-8kWh/day so the battery is a major contributor to a £2.4/day
saving and I expect that to be true for 8 or 9 months of the year.

Most days I can enjoy a hot bath heated by the immersion so have saved a
further amount on gas too.

Prices and demand have increased since my battery was installed but the
PV and battery could be had then for £8k, so a payback of around 13
years currently but is likely to get better, the panels should be good
for 20 and the battery is warranted for 10 IIRC.

On 02/05/2022 20:25, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> williamwright wrote:
>
>> On 02/05/2022 16:41, Clive Page wrote:
>>> The only downside is getting junk mail and phone calls from time to time
>>> from dodgy firms who have got our address from somewhere and want to
>>> sell us maintenance/cleaning/new inverter etc.
>>
>> They look on Google maps for solar panels.
>
> I think it is easier than that, they simply (mis)use the national
> database of installations.
>
> My 2010 installation is 3.64 kWp, performs slightly better than
> the predictions, and has generated over 40 MWh. The original cost
> was around £14.5k, and currently I am over £9k in profit.

I assume that you got high FITs payments for all the electricity you
generated (and used yourself). This type and amount of FITs payment
cannot be factored into a new installation in the same way.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 5/2/2022 6:14 PM, ajh wrote:
> On 02/05/2022 03:17, williamwright wrote:
>> On 01/05/2022 19:26, John Rumm wrote:
>>> On 01/05/2022 16:20, williamwright wrote:
>>>
>>>> Comments please, from anyone who has had panels on the roof for a number of years. Pros and cons? Pitfalls? Economics?
>>>
>>>  From the point of view of energy saving or revenue generation? Also with or without storage?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Just to save money. Batteries a possibility.
>>
>> Bill
>
>
>  From my limited experience since last October I would say the battery is what makes PV worthwhile in the absence of subsidies.
>
> I have not imported electricity since March 5th ( not quite true as there is always a 1/3 unit imported because of the way the PV and battery are not quick enough to compare currents) and my consumption is about 7-8kWh/day so the battery is a major contributor to a £2.4/day saving and I expect that to be true for 8 or 9 months of the year.
>
> Most days I can enjoy a hot bath heated by the immersion so have saved a  further amount on gas too.
>
> Prices and demand have increased since  my battery was installed but the PV and battery could be had then for £8k, so a payback of around 13 years currently but is likely to get better, the panels should be good for 20 and the battery is warranted for 10 IIRC.

What kind of battery capacity is that ?

I'm curious as to what ratio of panels to battery you set up.

Paul

alan_m wrote:

>On 02/05/2022 20:25, Chris J Dixon wrote:

>> My 2010 installation is 3.64 kWp, performs slightly better than
>> the predictions, and has generated over 40 MWh. The original cost
>> was around £14.5k, and currently I am over £9k in profit.
>
>I assume that you got high FITs payments for all the electricity you
>generated (and used yourself). This type and amount of FITs payment
>cannot be factored into a new installation in the same way.

You are correct. I was simply responding to the OP's question:

>Comments please, from anyone who has had panels on the roof for a number
>of years. Pros and cons? Pitfalls? Economics?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 01/05/2022 16:20, williamwright wrote:
> Comments please, from anyone who has had panels on the roof for a number
> of years. Pros and cons? Pitfalls? Economics?
>
> Bill

Don't bother if there's any chance you will move in the next 20 - 25
years. We found they added very little to the value of the property
(even with a reasonably generous, transferrable 2013 FIT).

--
Reentrant

On 03/05/2022 04:12, Paul wrote:
> What kind of battery capacity is that ?
>
> I'm curious as to what ratio of panels to battery you set up.
>
>    Paul
It's a Growatt 6kWh and after a minor teething problem is working well.
Programming doesn't seem that straightforward but as I do not have a
cheap offpeak tariff to charge it by yet, I'll have to cross that bridge...

In the mean time it just works and even on a cloudy day like now I am
receiving 0.5kW and the battery sits at 60% by mid morning, it only
discharges to 10% then would draw from the grid but started today at 40%.

In mid December I am lucky to even get 1kWh from the panels but even so
most days the battery contributes into the early evening.

I had wanted to replace my Potterton Suprima 50 with a Baxi Ecogen but
they are no longer available, may have had problems, and at over £10k
installed possibly not a sensible investment for the 3-4 months it would
be needed even when last available in 2016, I'd like to know how people
got on with them.

Doubling the battery capacity (and price) simply does not make sense in
my case but it may if you have an EV.

I agree that this is for the long haul and not likely to add value to a
house sale plus I shall probably not live long enough to see a payback.

It's a gamble that has done well for me so far.

On 03/05/2022 10:50, ajh wrote:
> On 03/05/2022 04:12, Paul wrote:
>> What kind of battery capacity is that ?
>>
>> I'm curious as to what ratio of panels to battery you set up.
>>
>>     Paul
> It's a Growatt 6kWh and after a minor teething problem is working well.
> Programming doesn't seem that straightforward but as I do not have a
> cheap offpeak tariff to charge it by yet, I'll have to cross that bridge...
>
> In the mean time it just works and even on a cloudy day like now I am
> receiving 0.5kW and the battery sits at 60% by mid morning, it only
> discharges to 10% then would draw from the grid but started today at 40%.
>
> In mid December I am lucky to even get 1kWh from the panels  but even so
> most days the battery contributes into the early evening.
>
> I had wanted to replace my Potterton Suprima 50 with a Baxi Ecogen but
> they are no longer available, may have had problems, and at over £10k
> installed possibly not a sensible investment for the 3-4 months it would
> be needed even when last available in 2016, I'd like to know how people
> got on with them.
>
> Doubling the battery capacity (and price) simply does not make sense in
> my case but it may if you have an EV.
>
> I agree that this is for the long haul and not likely to add value to a
> house sale plus I shall probably not live long enough to see a payback.
>
> It's a gamble that has done well for me so far.
>
>
I forgot to say it is a 4kW peak array and I cannot remember seeing more
than 3kW produced. It is far from ideally oriented as WSW and averages
3MWh annually.

On 02/05/2022 23:14, ajh wrote:
> On 02/05/2022 03:17, williamwright wrote:
>> On 01/05/2022 19:26, John Rumm wrote:
>>> On 01/05/2022 16:20, williamwright wrote:
>>>
>>>> Comments please, from anyone who has had panels on the roof for a
>>>> number of years. Pros and cons? Pitfalls? Economics?
>>>
>>>  From the point of view of energy saving or revenue generation? Also
>>> with or without storage?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Just to save money. Batteries a possibility.
>>
>> Bill
>
>
>  From my limited experience since last October I would say the battery
> is what makes PV worthwhile in the absence of subsidies.
>
> I have not imported electricity since March 5th ( not quite true as
> there is always a 1/3 unit imported because of the way the PV and
> battery are not quick enough to compare currents) and my consumption is
> about 7-8kWh/day so the battery is a major contributor to a £2.4/day
> saving and I expect that to be true for 8 or 9 months of the year.
>
> Most days I can enjoy a hot bath heated by the immersion so have saved a
>  further amount on gas too.
>
Do you have a private well, or are you on a water meter ?

On 02/05/2022 20:25, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> williamwright wrote:
>
>> On 02/05/2022 16:41, Clive Page wrote:
>>> The only downside is getting junk mail and phone calls from time to time
>>> from dodgy firms who have got our address from somewhere and want to
>>> sell us maintenance/cleaning/new inverter etc.
>>
>> They look on Google maps for solar panels.
>
> I think it is easier than that, they simply (mis)use the national
> database of installations.
>
> My 2010 installation is 3.64 kWp, performs slightly better than
> the predictions, and has generated over 40 MWh. The original cost
> was around £14.5k, and currently I am over £9k in profit.
>
> No problems to date.
>
> Chris

If you had bought £14.5K of shares in Scottish Mortgage IT then
you would now have about £94K in investments even at todays
much-corrected nasdaq valuations.

If you had sold them last October you would have about £160K
in the bank :-(

On 03/05/2022 14:48, Andrew wrote:

> If you had bought £14.5K of shares in Scottish Mortgage IT then
> you would now have about £94K in investments even at todays
> much-corrected nasdaq valuations.
>
> If you had sold them last October you would have about £160K
> in the bank :-(

So how much did you make on these shares :)

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Andrew <Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
> If you had bought £14.5K of shares in Scottish Mortgage IT then
> you would now have about £94K in investments even at todays
> much-corrected nasdaq valuations.
>
> If you had sold them last October you would have about £160K
> in the bank :-(

Or you could have roughly £0, had they tanked (hello Equitable Life, Arch
Cru and Woodford Equity Income). Meanwhile the FIT deal was guaranteed by
the government. Different risks, different rewards.

Theo

On 02/05/2022 23:14, ajh wrote:
> a payback of around 13 years currently but is likely to get better, the
> panels should be good for 20 and the battery is warranted for 10 IIRC.

If I cant get better than 10% on money invested I shouldn't even be trying.

--
Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get.
Mark Twain

On Mon, 02 May 2022 20:25:27 +0100, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk>
wrote:

>>
>>They look on Google maps for solar panels.
>
>I think it is easier than that, they simply (mis)use the national
>database of installations.
>

+1 I got quite cross with them a few years ago, because they don't
allow for people like me who leased the roof and don't own the panels.
(I get use of the generated electricity and there's enough on bright
days to heat the immersion tank. The first year I had the immersion
diverter installed I used no gas for hot water from May until
September but there haven't been any summers as good as that since.)

On 04/05/2022 15:31, Peter Johnson wrote:
> On Mon, 02 May 2022 20:25:27 +0100, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>> They look on Google maps for solar panels.
>>
>> I think it is easier than that, they simply (mis)use the national
>> database of installations.
>>
>
> +1 I got quite cross with them a few years ago, because they don't
> allow for people like me who leased the roof and don't own the panels.
> (I get use of the generated electricity and there's enough on bright
> days to heat the immersion tank. The first year I had the immersion
> diverter installed I used no gas for hot water from May until
> September but there haven't been any summers as good as that since.)

The panels also degrade over time.

On 03/05/2022 16:52, Theo wrote:
> Andrew <Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
>> If you had bought £14.5K of shares in Scottish Mortgage IT then
>> you would now have about £94K in investments even at todays
>> much-corrected nasdaq valuations.
>>
>> If you had sold them last October you would have about £160K
>> in the bank :-(
>
> Or you could have roughly £0, had they tanked (hello Equitable Life, Arch
> Cru and Woodford Equity Income). Meanwhile the FIT deal was guaranteed by
> the government. Different risks, different rewards.
>
> Theo

Nope. Almost impossible for a 5-star IT to do that. Even Woodford Equity
income 'only' lost about 30% (but not for people who invested at
the beginning). Equitable Life also never completely failed and
the people who think they have been 'hard done by' actually signed
up for *Guaranteed* annuity rates (with a capital G) which they
will and are getting. And unless you had also reinvested the SMT
dividends then you still have the money from those.

When those panels are end-of-life the nasty stuff used to make them
may well have been deemed 'toxic waste' by the government of the day
and cost £thousands to be removed by a 'licensed' contractor.
No-one knows what is in store after 2024 when Starmer is PM.

On 04/05/2022 15:49, Fredxx wrote:
> On 04/05/2022 15:31, Peter Johnson wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 May 2022 20:25:27 +0100, Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> They look on Google maps for solar panels.
>>>
>>> I think it is easier than that, they simply (mis)use the national
>>> database of installations.
>>>
>>
>> +1 I got quite cross with them a few years ago, because they don't
>> allow for people like me who leased the roof and don't own the panels.
>> (I get use of the generated electricity and there's enough on bright
>> days to heat the immersion tank. The first year I had the immersion
>> diverter installed I used no gas for hot water from May until
>> September but there haven't been any summers as good as that since.)
>
> The panels also degrade over time.
>

And have fun selling the house too.