In message <t5tfbf$n3n$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Richard
<smithski@btinternet.com.invalid> writes
>On 16/05/2022 12:26, Theo wrote:
>> Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Hmm. Booked today, a 1 hour slot is quoted at £74.00! Their advertised
>>> prices refer to booked on the day!
>> That appears to be because you can only prebook per whole day. If
>>you turn
>> up you can get it the hour (or first 30 / 45 mins).
>> I assume it's pay-on-exit of some form, so you know how long you've
>>stayed
>> at the time of payment.
>> Short stay is priced so that you don't stay there for weeks,
>>although they
>> will happily take cash off you if you have money to burn.
>> Theo
>
>I don't have money to burn and they are still happy to take my cash.
>Did a pick-up from Heathrow recently. Arrived 10 minutes after the
>flight landed and was still screwed by delayed
>baggage/immigration/whatever. £14.50 for parking :(

Right. Been there, done that!

Route /short stay signage could be better but it worked. Ticket on way
in, pay on return to car and wave near reader on way out.

Major complaint! For a busy airport, why are toilets few and hard to
find?

--
Tim Lamb

On 16/05/2022 20:03, John Rumm wrote:

> All mobile phone operators know where you are - its kind of part of the
> bargain you have to go with if you want the thing to work as a phone
> "everywhere" :-)
>
Well it is fundamental to the GSM phone system that phones that are on,
are in near constant dialogue with available masts and adjusting their
output power to the minimum required to prolong battery life - hence
the issue with using mobiles on planes.

> (you can turn off location history if you want, and don't have to upload
> contacts)
>
>
>

On 17/05/2022 10:50, wasbit wrote:
> "John Rumm" <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote in message
> news:t5u6tr$e1e$1@dont-email.me...
>
>> Indeed... although with a giffgaff PAYG SIM, if you load it with £10
>> of credit, then so long as you interact with it in some way once every
>> six months, then it will stay active and in credit.
>>
>> (they suggest send a text or make a call, I have found that just
>> logging into the account on the web is usually enough)
>>
>>
>
> That's handy to know.
> If only I had an online account.

ISTR you need to register for the account to order the SIM generally...

(although they did at one time like to send them out willy nilly in the
hope that someone would give them away!)

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 17/05/2022 15:36, Tim Lamb wrote:

>
> Major complaint! For a busy airport, why are toilets few and hard to find?
>

Possibly the fact that toilets yield no income when they get £500 to
£1,000 per sq M for space rented landside.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In message <zk935IU1bjgiFwnm@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk>, at 12:35:17 on
Mon, 16 May 2022, Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>In message <c24040ab-7620-2899-7c67-773aa24cddf9@outlook.com>, Robin
><rbw@outlook.com> writes
>>On 16/05/2022 11:27, John Rumm wrote:
>>> On 16/05/2022 10:45, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>> In message <4cx*iwiOy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo
>>>><theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes
>>>>> Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Moderately OT but may interest others here..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Collecting two elderly American visitors, one with a replacement leg,
>>>>>> from Heathrow T3 tomorrow morning and struggling to get my head around
>>>>>> the short term *meet and greet* parking set up!

>Word is that T3 short term parking is *take a ticket and pay on exit*.
>Now why wasn't that mentioned on their glossy website?

Having been there fairly recently (since the Dartford_Tunnel|Congestion
_Charge-alike payment scheme for drop-off started), the only way to do
pick-up is by parking in the short-stay.) You get a standard paper
ticket, which is paid at a kiosk just before re-entering the carpark
proper on foot.

I agree that it's a hostage to fortune regarding delays and baggage
claim etc, and I would always check a site like Flightstats to see when
it was predicted to land (which for a USA flight will be pretty accurate
as soon as it took off), then add perhaps 45 minutes.

Don't know of any obvious places to "lurk" outside the airport perimeter
- I suspect if they existed they'd be packed.
--
Roland Perry

In message <995b2ded-1c97-936c-08cc-d0f7d2cf7bd3@outlook.com>, at
16:32:38 on Tue, 17 May 2022, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> remarked:

>> Major complaint! For a busy airport, why are toilets few and hard to
>>find?
>
>Possibly the fact that toilets yield no income when they get £500 to
>£1,000 per sq M for space rented landside.

A T3 the toilets are where they've been for years, about as far from the
car-park as it's possible to go. When I was there a few months ago
virtually all the landside retail was still closed.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:IcqnxsO$aLhiFA7i@perry.uk...
> Don't know of any obvious places to "lurk" outside the airport perimeter -
> I suspect if they existed they'd be packed.

Ideally they should run a cheap-as-chips park-and-ride service so people
dropping off and picking up can leave their passengers somewhere that avoids
congestion by the terminal, and the passengers then get a bus to/from.

"Lurking" outside the perimeter is only any good (assuming there are free
spaces) if passengers are allowed to walk from there to the terminal, but I
believe (I may be wrong) that Heathrow does not allow pedestrians through
the access tunnels, so the only way to get in is by a car (pay even to drop
off and set off within a few seconds), bus (pay to park long-term, and get
shuttle bus included for free), taxi, or public transport (HEx, Picc or bus
from Reading/Feltham). So whichever way you do it, you have to pay to get
there.

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:IcqnxsO$aLhiFA7i@perry.uk...
> > Don't know of any obvious places to "lurk" outside the airport perimeter -
> > I suspect if they existed they'd be packed.
>
> Ideally they should run a cheap-as-chips park-and-ride service so people
> dropping off and picking up can leave their passengers somewhere that avoids
> congestion by the terminal, and the passengers then get a bus to/from.
>
> "Lurking" outside the perimeter is only any good (assuming there are free
> spaces) if passengers are allowed to walk from there to the terminal, but I
> believe (I may be wrong) that Heathrow does not allow pedestrians through
> the access tunnels, so the only way to get in is by a car (pay even to drop
> off and set off within a few seconds), bus (pay to park long-term, and get
> shuttle bus included for free), taxi, or public transport (HEx, Picc or bus
> from Reading/Feltham). So whichever way you do it, you have to pay to get
> there.

By 'lurking', I was suggesting somewhere for the driver to wait until the
passengers were confirmed to have (say) passed immigration. They would
still have to pay for short stay parking, but only for a half-hour, not for
more if things were slow.

For example, there's a Tesco in Feltham, just across the A30, which has a
cafe. There are some pubs in Sipson and Harlington, there's a Tesco Extra
near Stanwell, another in West Drayton, etc etc. Basically anywhere to park
and wait, perhaps with coffee or other facilities available.

Your 'park and ride' service exists and is called the 'tube' - for example
Hounslow West has a big car park. But I think Heathrow is under planning
constraints to limit car journeys to the airport, so they would prefer it if
people took public transport from a lot further away.

Theo

In message <trxeMqQQeLhiFA8z@perry.uk>, Roland Perry
<roland@perry.co.uk> writes
>In message <995b2ded-1c97-936c-08cc-d0f7d2cf7bd3@outlook.com>, at
>16:32:38 on Tue, 17 May 2022, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> remarked:
>
>>> Major complaint! For a busy airport, why are toilets few and hard
>>>to find?
>>
>>Possibly the fact that toilets yield no income when they get £500 to
>>£1,000 per sq M for space rented landside.
>
>A T3 the toilets are where they've been for years, about as far from
>the car-park as it's possible to go. When I was there a few months ago
>virtually all the landside retail was still closed.

Serious problem for elderly prostate issue drivers!

For the late joiners.. the job is done! T3 short stay car park is
moderately well signed although changing lanes might be a problem at
busy times and you can't follow the road surface sign because of queuing
cars! There is off airport parking with first 2 hours free so if the
passenger can phone a few minutes before leaving arrivals, the short
stay charge can be minimised.

--
Tim Lamb

On 17/05/2022 03:36 pm, Tim Lamb wrote:

> Richard <smithski@btinternet.com.invalid> writes
>> On 16/05/2022 12:26, Theo wrote:
>>> Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>>>> Hmm. Booked today, a 1 hour slot is quoted at £74.00!  Their advertised
>>>> prices refer to booked on the day!

>>> That appears to be because you can only prebook per whole day. If
>>> you turn up you can get it the hour (or first 30 / 45 mins).
>>>  I assume it's pay-on-exit of some form, so you know how long you've
>>> stayed at the time of payment.
>>> Short stay is priced so that you don't stay there for weeks,
>>> although they will happily take cash off you if you have money to burn.
>
>> I don't have money to burn and they are still happy to take my cash.
>> Did a pick-up from Heathrow recently. Arrived 10 minutes after the
>> flight landed and was still screwed by delayed
>> baggage/immigration/whatever. £14.50 for parking :(

> Right. Been there, done that!
> Route /short stay signage could be better but it worked. Ticket on way
> in, pay on return to car and wave near reader on way out.

Some USA airports have free-to-use "cellphone lots" where drivers
meeting arrival passengers can wait until summoned to the terminal by
the air-passenger, who has now cleared the carousels and immigration (if
appropriate). I've picked up relatives a few times by that means.

> Major complaint! For a busy airport, why are toilets few and hard to find?

On 18/05/2022 02:05 pm, Theo wrote:
> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:IcqnxsO$aLhiFA7i@perry.uk...
>>> Don't know of any obvious places to "lurk" outside the airport perimeter -
>>> I suspect if they existed they'd be packed.
>>
>> Ideally they should run a cheap-as-chips park-and-ride service so people
>> dropping off and picking up can leave their passengers somewhere that avoids
>> congestion by the terminal, and the passengers then get a bus to/from.
>>
>> "Lurking" outside the perimeter is only any good (assuming there are free
>> spaces) if passengers are allowed to walk from there to the terminal, but I
>> believe (I may be wrong) that Heathrow does not allow pedestrians through
>> the access tunnels, so the only way to get in is by a car (pay even to drop
>> off and set off within a few seconds), bus (pay to park long-term, and get
>> shuttle bus included for free), taxi, or public transport (HEx, Picc or bus
>> from Reading/Feltham). So whichever way you do it, you have to pay to get
>> there.
>
> By 'lurking', I was suggesting somewhere for the driver to wait until the
> passengers were confirmed to have (say) passed immigration. They would
> still have to pay for short stay parking, but only for a half-hour, not for
> more if things were slow.
>
> For example, there's a Tesco in Feltham, just across the A30, which has a
> cafe. There are some pubs in Sipson and Harlington, there's a Tesco Extra
> near Stanwell, another in West Drayton, etc etc. Basically anywhere to park
> and wait, perhaps with coffee or other facilities available.
>
> Your 'park and ride' service exists and is called the 'tube' - for example
> Hounslow West has a big car park. But I think Heathrow is under planning
> constraints to limit car journeys to the airport, so they would prefer it if
> people took public transport from a lot further away...

....and anyway, muggers and knife-wielding robbers are as entitled to
follow their trade as anyone else is.

On 18/05/2022 05:48 pm, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <trxeMqQQeLhiFA8z@perry.uk>, Roland Perry
> <roland@perry.co.uk> writes
>> In message <995b2ded-1c97-936c-08cc-d0f7d2cf7bd3@outlook.com>, at
>> 16:32:38 on Tue, 17 May 2022, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> remarked:
>>
>>>>  Major complaint! For a busy airport, why are toilets few and hard
>>>> to find?
>>>
>>> Possibly the fact that toilets yield no income when they get £500 to
>>> £1,000 per sq M for space rented landside.
>>
>> A T3 the toilets are where they've been for years, about as far from
>> the car-park as it's possible to go. When I was there a few months ago
>> virtually all the landside retail was still closed.
>
> Serious problem for elderly prostate issue drivers!
>
> For the late joiners.. the job is done! T3 short stay car park is
> moderately well signed although changing lanes might be a problem at
> busy times and you can't follow the road surface sign because of queuing
> cars!  There is off airport parking with first 2 hours free so if the
> passenger can phone a few minutes before leaving arrivals, the short
> stay charge can be minimised.

ooh! Where is that free parking for two hours, please?

In message <jemudaFchcfU3@mid.individual.net>, JNugent
<jennings&co@fastmail.fm> writes
>On 18/05/2022 05:48 pm, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message <trxeMqQQeLhiFA8z@perry.uk>, Roland Perry
>><roland@perry.co.uk> writes
>>> In message <995b2ded-1c97-936c-08cc-d0f7d2cf7bd3@outlook.com>, at
>>>16:32:38 on Tue, 17 May 2022, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>  Major complaint! For a busy airport, why are toilets few and hard
>>>>>to find?
>>>>
>>>> Possibly the fact that toilets yield no income when they get £500
>>>>to £1,000 per sq M for space rented landside.
>>>
>>> A T3 the toilets are where they've been for years, about as far from
>>>the car-park as it's possible to go. When I was there a few months
>>>ago virtually all the landside retail was still closed.
>> Serious problem for elderly prostate issue drivers!
>> For the late joiners.. the job is done! T3 short stay car park is
>>moderately well signed although changing lanes might be a problem at
>>busy times and you can't follow the road surface sign because of
>>queuing cars!  There is off airport parking with first 2 hours free
>>so if the passenger can phone a few minutes before leaving arrivals,
>>the short stay charge can be minimised.
>
>ooh! Where is that free parking for two hours, please?

Wherever this takes you:-)

https://www.airparks.co.uk/heathrow-parking/drop-off-pick-up.html

--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <jemudaFchcfU3@mid.individual.net>, JNugent
> <jennings&co@fastmail.fm> writes
> >ooh! Where is that free parking for two hours, please?
>
> Wherever this takes you:-)
>
> https://www.airparks.co.uk/heathrow-parking/drop-off-pick-up.html

That seems to be very out of date. Currently long stay is free for the
first half hour:
https://www.heathrow.com/transport-and-directions/heathrow-parking/heathrow-long-stay-parking

but that's barely enough to get the bus to the terminal and back again.
I suppose it might work as a cheaper way to pick people up if your
passengers are prepared to catch the car park bus, but not for hanging
around.

Theo

In message <7cx*HBAOy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes
>Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <jemudaFchcfU3@mid.individual.net>, JNugent
>> <jennings&co@fastmail.fm> writes
>> >ooh! Where is that free parking for two hours, please?
>>
>> Wherever this takes you:-)
>>
>> https://www.airparks.co.uk/heathrow-parking/drop-off-pick-up.html
>
>That seems to be very out of date. Currently long stay is free for the
>first half hour:
>https://www.heathrow.com/transport-and-directions/heathrow-parking/heath
>row-long-stay-parking
>
>but that's barely enough to get the bus to the terminal and back again.
>I suppose it might work as a cheaper way to pick people up if your
>passengers are prepared to catch the car park bus, but not for hanging
>around.
I think the idea is you park there while you wait for your passenger to
clear arrivals and then drive to the short stay park to do the actual
pickup.

--
Tim Lamb

On 19/05/2022 05:22 pm, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <jemudaFchcfU3@mid.individual.net>, JNugent
> <jennings&co@fastmail.fm> writes
>> On 18/05/2022 05:48 pm, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> In message <trxeMqQQeLhiFA8z@perry.uk>, Roland Perry
>>> <roland@perry.co.uk> writes
>>>> In message <995b2ded-1c97-936c-08cc-d0f7d2cf7bd3@outlook.com>, at
>>>> 16:32:38 on Tue, 17 May 2022, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>>  Major complaint! For a busy airport, why are toilets few and hard
>>>>>> to find?
>>>>>
>>>>> Possibly the fact that toilets yield no income when they get £500
>>>>> to  £1,000 per sq M for space rented landside.
>>>>
>>>> A T3 the toilets are where they've been for years, about as far from
>>>> the car-park as it's possible to go. When I was there a few months
>>>> ago  virtually all the landside retail was still closed.
>>>  Serious problem for elderly prostate issue drivers!
>>>  For the late joiners.. the job is done! T3 short stay car park is
>>> moderately well signed although changing lanes might be a problem at
>>> busy times and you can't follow the road surface sign because of
>>> queuing  cars!  There is off airport parking with first 2 hours free
>>> so if the  passenger can phone a few minutes before leaving arrivals,
>>> the short  stay charge can be minimised.
>>
>> ooh! Where is that free parking for two hours, please?
>
> Wherever this takes you:-)
>
> https://www.airparks.co.uk/heathrow-parking/drop-off-pick-up.html

Thank you. it's interesting.

On 19/05/2022 09:47 pm, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <7cx*HBAOy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes
>> Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <jemudaFchcfU3@mid.individual.net>, JNugent
>>> <jennings&co@fastmail.fm> writes
>>> >ooh! Where is that free parking for two hours, please?
>>>
>>> Wherever this takes you:-)
>>>
>>> https://www.airparks.co.uk/heathrow-parking/drop-off-pick-up.html
>>
>> That seems to be very out of date.  Currently long stay is free for the
>> first half hour:
>> https://www.heathrow.com/transport-and-directions/heathrow-parking/heath
>> row-long-stay-parking
>>
>> but that's barely enough to get the bus to the terminal and back again.
>> I suppose it might work as a cheaper way to pick people up if your
>> passengers are prepared to catch the car park bus, but not for hanging
>> around.
> I think the idea is you park there while you wait for your passenger to
> clear arrivals and then drive to the short stay park to do the actual
> pickup.

That was my impression too. It might be even easier to park on-street in
Sipson.

In message <7cx*HBAOy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 20:33:27 on Thu,
19 May 2022, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>Tim Lamb <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <jemudaFchcfU3@mid.individual.net>, JNugent
>> <jennings&co@fastmail.fm> writes
>> >ooh! Where is that free parking for two hours, please?
>>
>> Wherever this takes you:-)
>>
>> https://www.airparks.co.uk/heathrow-parking/drop-off-pick-up.html
>
>That seems to be very out of date. Currently long stay is free for the
>first half hour:
>https://www.heathrow.com/transport-and-directions/heathrow-parking/heath
>row-long-stay-parking
>
>but that's barely enough to get the bus to the terminal and back again.
>I suppose it might work as a cheaper way to pick people up if your
>passengers are prepared to catch the car park bus, but not for hanging
>around.

You could hang around, there and then it's 18 minutes drive to T3 where
you have to pay the minimum fee (£5.30) in the short term car park.
--
Roland Perry

In message <t62o0u$3k5$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:15:16 on Wed, 18 May
2022, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:IcqnxsO$aLhiFA7i@perry.uk...
>> Don't know of any obvious places to "lurk" outside the airport
>>perimeter - I suspect if they existed they'd be packed.
>
>Ideally they should run a cheap-as-chips park-and-ride service so
>people dropping off and picking up can leave their passengers somewhere
>that avoids congestion by the terminal, and the passengers then get a
>bus to/from.

Buses in the vicinity ofthe airport used to be free, but I have an idea
that pandemic financial crises has meant their demise.

>"Lurking" outside the perimeter is only any good (assuming there are
>free spaces) if passengers are allowed to walk from there to the
>terminal, but I believe (I may be wrong) that Heathrow does not allow
>pedestrians through the access tunnels,

It's a very long walk too, and yes it's not permitted. However T4 is
accessible (and probably T5) and trains between Heathrow station are
still free (as far as I know). There's also a driverless-pod shuttle
between one of the business car parks, and T5. There was supposed to be
a much more extensive pod network (including to the central terminals
via the old taxi tunnel) but turned out to be a pipedream.

> so the only way to get in is by a car (pay even to drop off and set
>off within a few seconds), bus (pay to park long-term, and get shuttle
>bus included for free), taxi, or public transport (HEx, Picc or bus
>from Reading/Feltham).

Notwithtanding my comments above, I've dropped people off at Hayes but
you have to pay for the train.

>So whichever way you do it, you have to pay to get there.

Looks like the Premier Inn near T4 has a drop-off point (and is
definitely walkable from the outside world; plus a walkway to the main
terminal building.
--
Roland Perry

On 21/05/2022 06:01, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <t62o0u$3k5$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:15:16 on Wed, 18 May
> 2022, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>> "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:IcqnxsO$aLhiFA7i@perry.uk...
>>> Don't know of any obvious places to "lurk" outside the airport
>>> perimeter -  I suspect if they existed they'd be packed.
>>
>> Ideally they should run a cheap-as-chips park-and-ride service so
>> people dropping off and picking up can leave their passengers
>> somewhere that avoids congestion by the terminal, and the passengers
>> then get a bus to/from.
>
> Buses in the vicinity ofthe airport used to be free, but I have an idea
> that pandemic financial crises has meant their demise.
>
>> "Lurking" outside the perimeter is only any good (assuming there are
>> free spaces) if passengers are allowed to walk from there to the
>> terminal, but I believe (I may be wrong) that Heathrow does not allow
>> pedestrians through the access tunnels,
>
> It's a very long walk too, and yes it's not permitted. However T4 is
> accessible (and probably T5) and trains between Heathrow station are
> still free (as far as I know). There's also a driverless-pod shuttle
> between one of the business car parks, and T5. There was supposed to be
> a much more extensive pod network (including to the central terminals
> via the old taxi tunnel) but turned out to be a pipedream.
>
>> so the only way to get in is by a car (pay even to drop off and set
>> off within a few seconds), bus (pay to park long-term, and get shuttle
>> bus included for free), taxi, or public transport (HEx, Picc or bus
>> from Reading/Feltham).
>
> Notwithtanding my comments above, I've dropped people off at Hayes but
> you have to pay for the train.
>
>> So whichever way you do it, you have to pay to get there.
>
> Looks like the Premier Inn near T4 has a drop-off point (and is
> definitely walkable from the outside world; plus a walkway to the main
> terminal building.
Other airports never seem keen on passengers walking between hotels,
car-parks and terminals. Often possible but difficult. Just geared up
for using shuttle buses.

In message <jesd12Fdq1dU1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:58:42 on Sat, 21
May 2022, Robert <robert@invalid.invalid> remarked:

>> Looks like the Premier Inn near T4 has a drop-off point (and is
>>definitely walkable from the outside world; plus a walkway to the main
>>terminal building.

>Other airports never seem keen on passengers walking between hotels,
>car-parks and terminals. Often possible but difficult. Just geared up
>for using shuttle buses.

Not sure what "other airports" you have in mind. Birmingham, Gatwick and
Stansted for example all have hotels adjacent to the terminals, and you
walk. Heathrow has three such hotels next to T4 (used to be just the
Hilton, but two additional ones now).

Obviously, if the hotels are "off campus" then you'll probably need a
shuttle bus (the rot set in at Heathrow when they started charging
hotel-owned minibuses a toll for each trip to the central area).
--
Roland Perry