Pete Fisher wrote:

> That's pretty much the case for obscure 30's motorcycles too.
>
> The sought after models, but still around in significant numbers,
> have surprising availability of parts that wear out. Anything else
> needs deep pockets, unless you are a time served apprentice machinist
> with your own lathe and access to a small scale foundry.

I was at Chimay some years ago talking to some chaps racing some JAP
engined outfit whose crank endfloat had become such it had taken out
the side case.

I commented that finding the parts must be difficult for such an old
engine - their response was the cases are almost a service item and
they have them sandcast in batches.

They had a spare they were going to fit once they'd finish their tea...

--
Simon

On 5 Nov 2021 06:37:39 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>I was at Chimay some years ago talking to some chaps racing some JAP
>engined outfit whose crank endfloat had become such it had taken out
>the side case.
>
>I commented that finding the parts must be difficult for such an old
>engine - their response was the cases are almost a service item and
>they have them sandcast in batches.
>
>They had a spare they were going to fit once they'd finish their tea...

Are these the same engines they use in Speedway? If so I'm not at all
surpised.

In the car world there's a very few models that continue to have
pretty much full availability of spares. My 2002 LR Defender is not
exactly vintage, but many parts are still the same as the older Series
models and most were unchanged up until the stopped makeing them a
couple of years ago.

It's a bit of a PITA getting stuff from the UK now, post Brexit, but
still means most bits can be got for a fraction of what a dealer in
France or Switzerland would pay, especially when people like Britpart
are still making pattern parts and selling them alongside the OEM
ones.
--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

sweller <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> Mark Olson wrote:
>
>> I think that singular honor belongs to the (deservedly) much maligned
>> Renault Dauphine.
>
> I thought they were quite pretty things.
>
> Shame the UK weather did for them quite quickly - which, to be fair,
> was the same fate most cars succumbed to but Renaults and Fiats (and
> Lancias!) seem to suffer from more.

I was slightly surprised to see that there are collectors of the
Dauphine and websites catering to same, detailing areas to look out
for when purchasing one, and noticed that the subject of rust popped
up frequently.

I think youngsters of today might be surprised to know how much cars
have improved in this respect compared to what we had to endure in
the 50s-80s. I remember well seeing even Hondas with rust holes in
the front wings in predictable places after only a couple of years
of exposure to winter salt.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On Friday, 5 November 2021 at 13:05:42 UTC, Mark Olson wrote:
> I think youngsters of today might be surprised to know how much cars
> have improved in this respect compared to what we had to endure in
> the 50s-80s. I remember well seeing even Hondas with rust holes in
> the front wings in predictable places after only a couple of years
> of exposure to winter salt.

Cars are almost boringly reliable and 'old bangers' just don't have the
character of shite like the Hilman Imp I had in 1981.

It was 11 years old and *utterly* fucked. Rust in the arches and the sills..
Head gasket went. Heater never worked (think these are connected).
Had only done about 30 thousand miles. Then again... it only cost me
something like £40, or £160 in today's money it seems.

My 2006 Subaru's[1] half as old again as the Imp was and it's only really
got a slightly sticky catch on the boot.

That's why today's kids will find it harder to gain the problem solving skills
with mechanical stuff because things don't really fail like they used to.

[1] Forester.

On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 1:05:42 PM UTC, Mark Olson wrote:

> I think youngsters of today might be surprised to know how much cars
> have improved in this respect compared to what we had to endure in
> the 50s-80s. I remember well seeing even Hondas with rust holes in
> the front wings in predictable places after only a couple of years
> of exposure to winter salt.

My Shite Old Dad worked in the press shop at Vauxhall in Luton in the sixties.
Whenever the press shop got ahead of the production line, they used to
get sent down to the cellar where they used wire brushes to get the
worst of the rust off the steel stock before it went up for pressing.

They were actually rusting before they were built. It was apparently quite
common to see a Cresta with rust bubbling through the paintwork on
the dealer's forecourt.

--
WUN

On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 9:40:05 AM UTC-4, stephen...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, 5 November 2021 at 13:05:42 UTC, Mark Olson wrote:
>
> > I think youngsters of today might be surprised to know how much cars
> > have improved in this respect compared to what we had to endure in
> > the 50s-80s. I remember well seeing even Hondas with rust holes in
> > the front wings in predictable places after only a couple of years
> > of exposure to winter salt.
> Cars are almost boringly reliable and 'old bangers' just don't have the
> character of shite like the Hilman Imp I had in 1981.
<snip>

I remember being a kid in the early 80s, and our family cars were first a 1972 mini clubman, and then a 1976 Audi 100 [0]. When we went on "long" journeys [1] we all knew it was a 50/50 thing if we would get there or break down on the way.

Now, both of my modern cars are 5 years old, and they are perfectly reliable and I would hop in either [2] to drive from here to Seattle [3] without so much as checking the washer fluid.

[0] Interestingly, one of my classic car friends here has the US version of that, which provokes nostalgia in me
[1] from Essex, Norfolk (to visit grandparent) and Devon and Yorkshire (holidays).
[2] But I would choose the Tesla
[3] 2,600 miles.

On 5 Nov 2021 06:30:16 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>Turby wrote:
>
>> > If you want unusual, the Indian behind it has a left hand throttle,
>> > foot clutch and hand gear change. Apparently it's ok once you get
>> > used to it!

>> Jeezus! Talk about mind fuck. Imagine switching back and forth a
>> couple of times a day. In traffic situations.

>Not quite the same league but I had a BSA (right hand side gear
>change), my Guzzi and a brace of MZs (left hand side gear change) and
>very quickly I learnt to be able to swap from one to another and quite
>happily operate them.
>
>To begin with it was a bit messy...

I've only ridden a couple of bikes with RHS gear changes, but found it
pretty quick to adapt. It's the whole other foot doing the work.

Swapping between road (up for up) and race (down for up) pattern on
the LHS, however, is much harder (for me)
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 2:21:25 PM UTC, Champ wrote:
> On 5 Nov 2021 06:30:16 GMT, "sweller" <swe...@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >Turby wrote:
> >
> >> > If you want unusual, the Indian behind it has a left hand throttle,
> >> > foot clutch and hand gear change. Apparently it's ok once you get
> >> > used to it!
>
> >> Jeezus! Talk about mind fuck. Imagine switching back and forth a
> >> couple of times a day. In traffic situations.
>
> >Not quite the same league but I had a BSA (right hand side gear
> >change), my Guzzi and a brace of MZs (left hand side gear change) and
> >very quickly I learnt to be able to swap from one to another and quite
> >happily operate them.
> >
> >To begin with it was a bit messy...
> I've only ridden a couple of bikes with RHS gear changes, but found it
> pretty quick to adapt. It's the whole other foot doing the work.
>
> Swapping between road (up for up) and race (down for up) pattern on
> the LHS, however, is much harder (for me)
> --

In a similar vein I'm always putting the windscreen wiper on to indicate and vice versa when swapping between my Bogno and Ma's Mini.
The amount of other Bongo Owners you see sqirting their washers at you instead of a cheery headlight flash always amuses me.

On Friday, 5 November 2021 at 14:31:43 UTC, browni...@googlemail.com wrote:

> In a similar vein I'm always putting the windscreen wiper on to indicate and vice versa when swapping between my Bogno and Ma's Mini.
> The amount of other Bongo Owners you see sqirting their washers at you instead of a cheery headlight flash always amuses me.

I was fine with indicators and windscreen wipers.

Then I got a Hilux which had them on the opposite side to everything I'd ever driven before.

And now, ten years later (and three or so years since I've driven a hilux) it's 50/50 if I get it right first time.

Fucking things.

On 05/11/2021 14:21, Champ wrote:
> On 5 Nov 2021 06:30:16 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Turby wrote:
>>
>>>> If you want unusual, the Indian behind it has a left hand throttle,
>>>> foot clutch and hand gear change. Apparently it's ok once you get
>>>> used to it!
>
>>> Jeezus! Talk about mind fuck. Imagine switching back and forth a
>>> couple of times a day. In traffic situations.
>
>> Not quite the same league but I had a BSA (right hand side gear
>> change), my Guzzi and a brace of MZs (left hand side gear change) and
>> very quickly I learnt to be able to swap from one to another and quite
>> happily operate them.
>>
>> To begin with it was a bit messy...
>
> I've only ridden a couple of bikes with RHS gear changes, but found it
> pretty quick to adapt. It's the whole other foot doing the work.
>
> Swapping between road (up for up) and race (down for up) pattern on
> the LHS, however, is much harder (for me)
>

I've just been for a bimble on the 'Beam. RH change and down for up.
Like the 57 Gilera TBF, but with a much slower action. The morini is LH
up for up and the Husky RH up for up.

Then there are only 4 ratios (it has a snazzy for the time Burman four
speed foot change box). Girder forks with friction damping and friction
steering damper. Frequently adjusting the manual advance retard lever to
keep it in the zone.

The whole experience is a learning curve and 'physical' in a way no
modern machine can be (at 40 mph at least).

--
Moto Morini 2C/375, Moto Morini 2C/350
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

On 05/11/2021 15:16, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Friday, 5 November 2021 at 14:31:43 UTC, browni...@googlemail.com wrote:
>
>> In a similar vein I'm always putting the windscreen wiper on to indicate and vice versa when swapping between my Bogno and Ma's Mini.
>> The amount of other Bongo Owners you see sqirting their washers at you instead of a cheery headlight flash always amuses me.
>
> I was fine with indicators and windscreen wipers.
>
> Then I got a Hilux which had them on the opposite side to everything I'd ever driven before.
>
> And now, ten years later (and three or so years since I've driven a hilux) it's 50/50 if I get it right first time.
>
> Fucking things.
>

I often indicate with the wipers at the first junction on jumping back
in to the MX5 or Granvia after not driving them for a while.

--
Moto Morini 2C/375, Moto Morini 2C/350
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

On Fri, 5 Nov 2021 08:16:09 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, 5 November 2021 at 14:31:43 UTC, browni...@googlemail.com wrote:
>
>> In a similar vein I'm always putting the windscreen wiper on to indicate and vice versa when swapping between my Bogno and Ma's Mini.
>> The amount of other Bongo Owners you see sqirting their washers at you instead of a cheery headlight flash always amuses me.
>
>I was fine with indicators and windscreen wipers.
>
>Then I got a Hilux which had them on the opposite side to everything I'd ever driven before.

When my daughter was small I vented my spleen at a transgressor by
washing the windscreen of my hire car. Collapse of small party, barely
able to splutter "That showed him, Dad!".

--
Colin Irvine
FJR1300A

On Fri, 05 Nov 2021 16:16:40 +0000, Colin Irvine
<look@colinandpat.co.uk> wrote:

>On Fri, 5 Nov 2021 08:16:09 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
><stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, 5 November 2021 at 14:31:43 UTC, browni...@googlemail.com wrote:
>>
>>> In a similar vein I'm always putting the windscreen wiper on to indicate and vice versa when swapping between my Bogno and Ma's Mini.
>>> The amount of other Bongo Owners you see sqirting their washers at you instead of a cheery headlight flash always amuses me.
>>
>>I was fine with indicators and windscreen wipers.
>>
>>Then I got a Hilux which had them on the opposite side to everything I'd ever driven before.
>
>When my daughter was small I vented my spleen at a transgressor by
>washing the windscreen of my hire car. Collapse of small party, barely
>able to splutter "That showed him, Dad!".

On two wheels, I once gave someone a damn' good indicating when I went
for the horn on my K100RS.

--

-Pip

On 05/11/2021 14:07, WUN wrote:
> On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 1:05:42 PM UTC, Mark Olson wrote:
>
>> I think youngsters of today might be surprised to know how much cars
>> have improved in this respect compared to what we had to endure in
>> the 50s-80s. I remember well seeing even Hondas with rust holes in
>> the front wings in predictable places after only a couple of years
>> of exposure to winter salt.
>
> My Shite Old Dad worked in the press shop at Vauxhall in Luton in the sixties.
> Whenever the press shop got ahead of the production line, they used to
> get sent down to the cellar where they used wire brushes to get the
> worst of the rust off the steel stock before it went up for pressing.
>
> They were actually rusting before they were built. It was apparently quite
> common to see a Cresta with rust bubbling through the paintwork on
> the dealer's forecourt.

My dad bought a Vauxhall Victor 101 estate new in 1963 I think (C reg).
I think it took two years for the front wings to pretty much rust through.

Modren Vauxhalls are better for rust, and my former Vectra estate didn't
have much rust on it. It made up for that in other ways.

On 06/11/2021 09:42 Mike Fleming penned these words:
> a Vauxhall Victor 101 estate new in 1963 I think (C reg).

We had one, albeit SH, sometime in the late 60s with the hand shift and bench
front seat. Fell apart from tin worm and was replaced with a MK1 PI another
unreliable piece of junk.

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

Stephen Packer wrote:

> It was 11 years old and utterly fucked. Rust in the arches and the
> sills. Head gasket went. Heater never worked (think these are
> connected).

It was usually running them without ati-freeze that killed them - both
the heaters and gaskets. The aluminium blocks would corrode and silt
everything up and the radiator stopped working (as did the heater) and
it overheated.

They were also buggers to get the air out of the cooling system
(another cause of heaters not working and overheating (and killing the
head gasket). You had to get their arse end high up in the air.

I've had three of them.

> My 2006 Subaru's[1] half as old again as the Imp was and it's only
> really got a slightly sticky catch on the boot.

My 2006 150k mile diesel SAAB 95 has just passed its third consecutive
MOT without work - it cost me £480 in 2018.

> That's why today's kids will find it harder to gain the problem
> solving skills with mechanical stuff because things don't really fail
> like they used to.

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or bad.

--
Simon

On 06/11/2021 06:02, sweller wrote:

> My 2006 150k mile diesel SAAB 95 has just passed its third consecutive
> MOT without work - it cost me £480 in 2018.
>

Tin worm is what will eventually see off my Mk1 MX5. Had to have some
work done on the inner sills this year (no other issues). The last 'MoT
welding' job kept things at bay for 5 years and I had a feeling
corrosion would raise its ugly head again this year on its 13th MoT test
in my ownership. Not too bad. £250 including also 'descaling' some of
the suspension parts (wishbones etc.) and spraying them with poor man's
waxoyl. Quite happy to spend that for another 12 months enjoyment of the
SOC devil I know. I even treated it to an oil change. I did the cam belt
myself (10 years since the last change) during lockdown #1.

If only 90's Mazdas were built like 90's Toyotas. The 1996 Granvia body
is like the proverbial fired clay blocks outside loo. Failure of some
Granvia specific essential part like the ECU or the instrument cluster
is most likely to get that in to uneconomical repair territory. It
shares a lot of running gear with the 3.0TD Landcruiser of the same era
or Hiace/Grand Hiace, but some parts are unobtainium even from Japan
now. A case of hoping to find someone breaking one.

>
>> That's why today's kids will find it harder to gain the problem
>> solving skills with mechanical stuff because things don't really fail
>> like they used to.
>
> I'm not sure if this is a good thing or bad.
>

Quite.

Also, however, harder to gain the bodging skills to cannibalise and make
things from other machines fit. A sort of Apollo 13 approach to keeping
SOBs and SOCs functioning - for a while at least.

--
Moto Morini 2C/375, Moto Morini 2C/350
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
1937 Sunbeam Model 14 250 Sports
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

sweller <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>
> My 2006 150k mile diesel SAAB 95 has just passed its third consecutive
> MOT without work - it cost me £480 in 2018.
>
>
I still somewhat regret selling my 95 Aero but, given that it was needing
significant spend each year, I’d probably regret it even more if I’d kept
it.

On 11/5/2021 6:40 AM, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Friday, 5 November 2021 at 13:05:42 UTC, Mark Olson wrote:
>
>> I think youngsters of today might be surprised to know how much cars
>> have improved in this respect compared to what we had to endure in
>> the 50s-80s. I remember well seeing even Hondas with rust holes in
>> the front wings in predictable places after only a couple of years
>> of exposure to winter salt.
>
> Cars are almost boringly reliable and 'old bangers' just don't have the
> character of shite like the Hilman Imp I had in 1981.
>
And the drive for fuel efficiency has meant the shapes are standardizing
to the point they all look so similar, whereas in the old days you could
tell the make and model from 100 metres away.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 05/11/2021 14:31, Dave Brown wrote:
> On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 2:21:25 PM UTC, Champ wrote:
>> On 5 Nov 2021 06:30:16 GMT, "sweller" <swe...@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>> Turby wrote:
>>>
>>>>> If you want unusual, the Indian behind it has a left hand throttle,
>>>>> foot clutch and hand gear change. Apparently it's ok once you get
>>>>> used to it!
>>
>>>> Jeezus! Talk about mind fuck. Imagine switching back and forth a
>>>> couple of times a day. In traffic situations.
>>
>>> Not quite the same league but I had a BSA (right hand side gear
>>> change), my Guzzi and a brace of MZs (left hand side gear change) and
>>> very quickly I learnt to be able to swap from one to another and quite
>>> happily operate them.
>>>
>>> To begin with it was a bit messy...
>> I've only ridden a couple of bikes with RHS gear changes, but found it
>> pretty quick to adapt. It's the whole other foot doing the work.
>>
>> Swapping between road (up for up) and race (down for up) pattern on
>> the LHS, however, is much harder (for me)
>> --
>
> In a similar vein I'm always putting the windscreen wiper on to indicate and vice versa when swapping between my Bogno and Ma's Mini.
> The amount of other Bongo Owners you see sqirting their washers at you instead of a cheery headlight flash always amuses me.
>
Similarly with my Suzuki Jimny.
It has everything swapped over compared with every other vehicle I have
ever driven - and that includes hundreds of trucks when I was on agency
work for my last 11 years before retiring.
Both laughable and frustrating when someone needs a damn good bipping!
C

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 6 Nov 2021 06:02:47 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>Stephen Packer wrote:
>
>> It was 11 years old and utterly fucked. Rust in the arches and the
>> sills. Head gasket went. Heater never worked (think these are
>> connected).
>
>It was usually running them without ati-freeze that killed them - both
>the heaters and gaskets. The aluminium blocks would corrode and silt
>everything up and the radiator stopped working (as did the heater) and
>it overheated.
>
>They were also buggers to get the air out of the cooling system
>(another cause of heaters not working and overheating (and killing the
>head gasket). You had to get their arse end high up in the air.
>
>I've had three of them.
>
>
>> My 2006 Subaru's[1] half as old again as the Imp was and it's only
>> really got a slightly sticky catch on the boot.
>
>My 2006 150k mile diesel SAAB 95 has just passed its third consecutive
>MOT without work - it cost me £480 in 2018.
>
>
>> That's why today's kids will find it harder to gain the problem
>> solving skills with mechanical stuff because things don't really fail
>> like they used to.
>
>I'm not sure if this is a good thing or bad.

Hmmm.
I've inherited my Dads Allroad and there are things wrong with it that
I really can't be arsed to try and fix.
It's only done 50k and not a spot of rust on it.
But.
The airbag light is permanently on (unless I pull the fuse); not a
biggy for motorcyclist but fixing it means dismantling the entire
dashboard and heater matrix box to access the defective control
module.
The self levelling/height adjustable (8" of ground clearance on the
top position!) suspension is working but does it's own thing when
stationary because there is an 'issue' with the signal from one of the
rear levelling sensors (the same Hella sensors VAG is still using for
headlight and suspension levelling to this day). But the sensors
themselves seem to be give out the correct signal when tweaked so it
has to be wiring 'somewhere'.
The 2.5tdi v6 engine is a nightmare to mess with as lots of stuff is
behind the cambelt. Just to access the cambelt the whole front of the
car has to come off.

Car is 20 years old and worth about £700.
Good job it's fun to drive.

--
Mark Roberts

On Sat, 6 Nov 2021 07:01:06 +0000, Pete Fisher
<peter@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>
>If only 90's Mazdas were built like 90's Toyotas. The 1996 Granvia body
>is like the proverbial fired clay blocks outside loo. Failure of some
>Granvia specific essential part like the ECU or the instrument cluster
>is most likely to get that in to uneconomical repair territory. It
>shares a lot of running gear with the 3.0TD Landcruiser of the same era
>or Hiace/Grand Hiace, but some parts are unobtainium even from Japan
>now. A case of hoping to find someone breaking one.

I have replaced the Series 3 with a 1996 Prado.
It has the same lump as the Granvia.
I hope I have it for ever :)

--
Mark Roberts

On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 7:44:35 AM UTC-5, Mark Roberts wrote:

> I've inherited my Dads Allroad and there are things wrong with it that
> I really can't be arsed to try and fix.
> It's only done 50k and not a spot of rust on it.
> But.
<snip list>

We had a 2002 Allroad - the 2.7 twin turbo. Loved it. But issues with the suspension, plus something to do with engine management (would die for a moment at 70mph for no discernable reason), and then there was the day the cabin filled with smoke and we thought it was actually on fire. That's when we decided to dump it.

> Car is 20 years old and worth about £700.
> Good job it's fun to drive.

That was what I liked about it too.

On 05/11/2021 14:31, Dave Brown wrote:

Wotcha.

> In a similar vein I'm always putting the windscreen wiper on to indicate and vice versa when swapping between my Bogno and Ma's Mini.
> The amount of other Bongo Owners you see sqirting their washers at you instead of a cheery headlight flash always amuses me.

Yep - as a Bongo owner, I've also done that.

--
L.W.