The government is set to announce that construction of certain sections of
HS2 will be delayed to save money, the BBC understands.

It is thought the delay will primarily affect sections from Manchester to
Crewe and Birmingham to Crewe.

But sources have also indicated that some of the design teams working on
the Euston end of the line may be affected.

Contractors are looking at whether they need to redeploy staff working on
that site.

The high-speed railway will link London, the Midlands and North of England.
However, it has been beset by delays and cost increases. In 2010, it was
estimated to cost around £33bn but that has since swollen to at least
£71bn.

Mark Thurston, chief executive of HS2 Ltd, recently told the BBC that he
and the government were examining the phasing of the build and the timing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64901985

On 09/03/2023 10:52, Recliner wrote:
> The government is set to announce that construction of certain sections of
> HS2 will be delayed to save money, the BBC understands.
>
> It is thought the delay will primarily affect sections from Manchester to
> Crewe and Birmingham to Crewe.
>
> But sources have also indicated that some of the design teams working on
> the Euston end of the line may be affected.
>
> Contractors are looking at whether they need to redeploy staff working on
> that site.
>
> The high-speed railway will link London, the Midlands and North of England.
> However, it has been beset by delays and cost increases. In 2010, it was
> estimated to cost around £33bn but that has since swollen to at least
> £71bn.
>
> Mark Thurston, chief executive of HS2 Ltd, recently told the BBC that he
> and the government were examining the phasing of the build and the timing.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64901985

I don't suppose anyone on here will be surprised. I'm not.

Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 09/03/2023 10:52, Recliner wrote:
>> The government is set to announce that construction of certain sections of
>> HS2 will be delayed to save money, the BBC understands.
>>
>> It is thought the delay will primarily affect sections from Manchester to
>> Crewe and Birmingham to Crewe.
>>
>> But sources have also indicated that some of the design teams working on
>> the Euston end of the line may be affected.
>>
>> Contractors are looking at whether they need to redeploy staff working on
>> that site.
>>
>> The high-speed railway will link London, the Midlands and North of England.
>> However, it has been beset by delays and cost increases. In 2010, it was
>> estimated to cost around £33bn but that has since swollen to at least
>> £71bn.
>>
>> Mark Thurston, chief executive of HS2 Ltd, recently told the BBC that he
>> and the government were examining the phasing of the build and the timing.
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64901985
>
> I don't suppose anyone on here will be surprised. I'm not.

Yes, it was either that or further cuts to the route.

On 09/03/2023 10:59, Coffee wrote:
> On 09/03/2023 10:52, Recliner wrote:
>> The government is set to announce that construction of certain
>> sections of
>> HS2 will be delayed to save money, the BBC understands.
>>
>> It is thought the delay will primarily affect sections from Manchester to
>> Crewe and Birmingham to Crewe.
>>
>> But sources have also indicated that some of the design teams working on
>> the Euston end of the line may be affected.
>>
>> Contractors are looking at whether they need to redeploy staff working on
>> that site.
>>
>> The high-speed railway will link London, the Midlands and North of
>> England.
>> However, it has been beset by delays and cost increases. In 2010, it was
>> estimated to cost around £33bn but that has since swollen to at least
>> £71bn.
>>
>> Mark Thurston, chief executive of HS2 Ltd, recently told the BBC that he
>> and the government were examining the phasing of the build and the
>> timing.
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64901985
>
> I don't suppose anyone on here will be surprised.  I'm not.

I would have been surprised if it had *not* happened ;-) I've been
waiting for an announcement along these lines for a while.

On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 11:27:38 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 09/03/2023 10:59, Coffee wrote:
>> On 09/03/2023 10:52, Recliner wrote:
>>> The government is set to announce that construction of certain
>>> sections of
>>> HS2 will be delayed to save money, the BBC understands.
>>>
>>> It is thought the delay will primarily affect sections from Manchester to
>>> Crewe and Birmingham to Crewe.
>>>
>>> But sources have also indicated that some of the design teams working on
>>> the Euston end of the line may be affected.
>>>
>>> Contractors are looking at whether they need to redeploy staff working on
>>> that site.
>>>
>>> The high-speed railway will link London, the Midlands and North of
>>> England.
>>> However, it has been beset by delays and cost increases. In 2010, it was
>>> estimated to cost around £33bn but that has since swollen to at least
>>> £71bn.
>>>
>>> Mark Thurston, chief executive of HS2 Ltd, recently told the BBC that he
>>> and the government were examining the phasing of the build and the
>>> timing.
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64901985
>>
>> I don't suppose anyone on here will be surprised.  I'm not.
>
>I would have been surprised if it had *not* happened ;-) I've been
>waiting for an announcement along these lines for a while.

Yes, we've often discussed it here. I think the trigger for this announcement is next week's Budget. The Tory right wing
has been demanding tax cuts, but Hunt hasn't much headroom, so he probably can't give them much on that front. As they
hate HS2 nearly as much as they hate taxes, cutting the spending on that project may go some small way towards placating
them.

On 09/03/2023 12:16, Recliner wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 11:27:38 +0000, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On 09/03/2023 10:59, Coffee wrote:
>>> On 09/03/2023 10:52, Recliner wrote:
>>>> The government is set to announce that construction of certain
>>>> sections of
>>>> HS2 will be delayed to save money, the BBC understands.
>>>>
>>>> It is thought the delay will primarily affect sections from Manchester to
>>>> Crewe and Birmingham to Crewe.
>>>>
>>>> But sources have also indicated that some of the design teams working on
>>>> the Euston end of the line may be affected.
>>>>
>>>> Contractors are looking at whether they need to redeploy staff working on
>>>> that site.
>>>>
>>>> The high-speed railway will link London, the Midlands and North of
>>>> England.
>>>> However, it has been beset by delays and cost increases. In 2010, it was
>>>> estimated to cost around £33bn but that has since swollen to at least
>>>> £71bn.
>>>>
>>>> Mark Thurston, chief executive of HS2 Ltd, recently told the BBC that he
>>>> and the government were examining the phasing of the build and the
>>>> timing.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64901985
>>>
>>> I don't suppose anyone on here will be surprised.  I'm not.
>>
>> I would have been surprised if it had *not* happened ;-) I've been
>> waiting for an announcement along these lines for a while.
>
> Yes, we've often discussed it here. I think the trigger for this announcement is next week's Budget. The Tory right wing
> has been demanding tax cuts, but Hunt hasn't much headroom, so he probably can't give them much on that front. As they
> hate HS2 nearly as much as they hate taxes, cutting the spending on that project may go some small way towards placating
> them.

They don't hate taxes - only income tax and business taxes. They have
increased VAT, and they are quite happy to effectively force increases
in Council Tax.

On 09/03/2023 10:52, Recliner wrote:
> The government is set to announce that construction of certain sections of
> HS2 will be delayed to save money, the BBC understands.

Another Tory lie.
It will reduce short term spending - but in the only term, it will cost
more, due to inflation over the period of time for which the project is
postponed...
----------------------------------------------------

>
> It is thought the delay will primarily affect sections from Manchester to
> Crewe and Birmingham to Crewe.
>
> But sources have also indicated that some of the design teams working on
> the Euston end of the line may be affected.
>
> Contractors are looking at whether they need to redeploy staff working on
> that site.
>
> The high-speed railway will link London, the Midlands and North of England.
> However, it has been beset by delays and cost increases. In 2010, it was
> estimated to cost around £33bn but that has since swollen to at least
> £71bn.
>
> Mark Thurston, chief executive of HS2 Ltd, recently told the BBC that he
> and the government were examining the phasing of the build and the timing.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64901985

In message <tuce6b$1doqs$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:59:23 on Thu, 9 Mar
2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>On 09/03/2023 10:52, Recliner wrote:
>> The government is set to announce that construction of certain
>>sections of HS2 will be delayed to save money, the BBC understands.
>>It is thought the delay will primarily affect sections from Manchester
>>to Crewe and Birmingham to Crewe.

>> But sources have also indicated that some of the design teams
>>working on the Euston end of the line may be affected. Contractors
>>are looking at whether they need to redeploy staff working on that site.

>> The high-speed railway will link London, the Midlands and North of
>>England.

>> However, it has been beset by delays and cost increases. In 2010, it was
>> estimated to cost around £33bn but that has since swollen to at least
>> £71bn.

>> Mark Thurston, chief executive of HS2 Ltd, recently told the BBC
>>that he and the government were examining the phasing of the build
>>and the timing. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64901985
>
>I don't suppose anyone on here will be surprised. I'm not.

I'd only be surprised if the £33bn included an allowance for inflation
during the build process. I know some of the cost increases have been
mission creep, but the over-run currently predicted includes a lot of
supply cost inflation.
--
Roland Perry

Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 09/03/2023 10:52, Recliner wrote:
>> The government is set to announce that construction of certain sections of
>> HS2 will be delayed to save money, the BBC understands.
>
> Another Tory lie.
> It will reduce short term spending - but in the only term, it will cost
> more, due to inflation over the period of time for which the project is
> postponed...

Yes, plus taking a longer time might make the build less efficient. For
example, all the expensive management overheads of a major construction
project will be needed for several additional years. And it delays the date
when the investment starts to make a return.

In message <tudb1t$1ies9$2@dont-email.me>, at 19:11:57 on Thu, 9 Mar
2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>On 09/03/2023 10:52, Recliner wrote:
>> The government is set to announce that construction of certain sections of
>> HS2 will be delayed to save money, the BBC understands.
>
>Another Tory lie.
>It will reduce short term spending - but in the only term, it will cost
>more, due to inflation over the period of time for which the project is
>postponed...

Only if you don't inflation adjust the cost, because the later the
spending happens, the less of a percentage of GDP it is.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <tudb1t$1ies9$2@dont-email.me>, at 19:11:57 on Thu, 9 Mar
> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On 09/03/2023 10:52, Recliner wrote:
>>> The government is set to announce that construction of certain sections of
>>> HS2 will be delayed to save money, the BBC understands.
>>
>> Another Tory lie.
>> It will reduce short term spending - but in the only term, it will cost
>> more, due to inflation over the period of time for which the project is
>> postponed...
>
> Only if you don't inflation adjust the cost, because the later the
> spending happens, the less of a percentage of GDP it is.

HS2 seems to be afflicted with a higher inflation rate than the rest of the
economy. Also, delaying completion also delays the benefits, whose NPV is
accordingly reduced.

In message <tufque$22ecp$5@dont-email.me>, at 17:55:26 on Fri, 10 Mar
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <tudb1t$1ies9$2@dont-email.me>, at 19:11:57 on Thu, 9 Mar
>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On 09/03/2023 10:52, Recliner wrote:
>>>> The government is set to announce that construction of certain sections of
>>>> HS2 will be delayed to save money, the BBC understands.
>>>
>>> Another Tory lie.
>>> It will reduce short term spending - but in the only term, it will cost
>>> more, due to inflation over the period of time for which the project is
>>> postponed...
>>
>> Only if you don't inflation adjust the cost, because the later the
>> spending happens, the less of a percentage of GDP it is.
>
>HS2 seems to be afflicted with a higher inflation rate than the rest of the
>economy.

They have the same inflation rates for things like wages and building
materials. Hopefully they've already bought most of the land they need
for the part currently under construction, so no inflation there.

The cost over-run (which is a completely different concept) is typical
of large engineering projects and is certainly something which should be
looked at more closely. Lessons don't seem to have be learnt from GWML
electrification, Crossrail or the WCML upgrade.

>Also, delaying completion also delays the benefits,

Timescale over-runs are regrettably commonplace (see Crossrail etc
again, including staging delays like through-running). I won't even
mention Thameslink "2000".

>whose NPV is accordingly reduced.

As does cutting the scope of the project, which risks whatever they do
finish off, being below a critical mass.
--
Roland Perry

On 11/03/2023 05:55, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tufque$22ecp$5@dont-email.me>, at 17:55:26 on Fri, 10 Mar
> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tudb1t$1ies9$2@dont-email.me>, at 19:11:57 on Thu, 9 Mar
>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On 09/03/2023 10:52, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> The government is set to announce that construction of certain
>>>>> sections of
>>>>> HS2 will be delayed to save money, the BBC understands.
>>>>
>>>> Another Tory lie.
>>>> It will reduce short term spending - but in the only term, it will cost
>>>> more, due to inflation over the period of time for which the project is
>>>> postponed...
>>>
>>> Only if you don't inflation adjust the cost, because the later the
>>> spending happens, the less of a percentage of GDP it is.
>>
>> HS2 seems to be afflicted with a higher inflation rate than the rest
>> of the
>> economy.
>
> They have the same inflation rates for things like wages and building
> materials. Hopefully they've already bought most of the land they need
> for the part currently under construction, so no inflation there.
>
> The cost over-run (which is a completely different concept) is typical
> of large engineering projects and is certainly something which should be
> looked at more closely. Lessons don't seem to have be learnt from GWML
> electrification, Crossrail or the WCML upgrade.
>
>> Also, delaying completion also delays the benefits,
>
> Timescale over-runs are regrettably commonplace (see Crossrail etc
> again, including staging delays like through-running). I won't even
> mention Thameslink "2000".
> S
>> whose NPV is accordingly reduced.
>
> As does cutting the scope of the project, which risks whatever they do
> finish off, being below a critical mass.

HS2 would have been required by the treasury to plan for 2% inflation.
We all know that inflation is much higher than this and building cost
inflation is even higher.

It's not in the least surprising that costs are escalating above forecast.

On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 12:31:54 +0000, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:

>On 11/03/2023 05:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <tufque$22ecp$5@dont-email.me>, at 17:55:26 on Fri, 10 Mar
>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <tudb1t$1ies9$2@dont-email.me>, at 19:11:57 on Thu, 9 Mar
>>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On 09/03/2023 10:52, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> The government is set to announce that construction of certain
>>>>>> sections of
>>>>>> HS2 will be delayed to save money, the BBC understands.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another Tory lie.
>>>>> It will reduce short term spending - but in the only term, it will cost
>>>>> more, due to inflation over the period of time for which the project is
>>>>> postponed...
>>>>
>>>> Only if you don't inflation adjust the cost, because the later the
>>>> spending happens, the less of a percentage of GDP it is.
>>>
>>> HS2 seems to be afflicted with a higher inflation rate than the rest
>>> of the
>>> economy.
>>
>> They have the same inflation rates for things like wages and building
>> materials. Hopefully they've already bought most of the land they need
>> for the part currently under construction, so no inflation there.
>>
>> The cost over-run (which is a completely different concept) is typical
>> of large engineering projects and is certainly something which should be
>> looked at more closely. Lessons don't seem to have be learnt from GWML
>> electrification, Crossrail or the WCML upgrade.
>>
>>> Also, delaying completion also delays the benefits,
>>
>> Timescale over-runs are regrettably commonplace (see Crossrail etc
>> again, including staging delays like through-running). I won't even
>> mention Thameslink "2000".
>> S
>>> whose NPV is accordingly reduced.
>>
>> As does cutting the scope of the project, which risks whatever they do
>> finish off, being below a critical mass.
>
>HS2 would have been required by the treasury to plan for 2% inflation.
>We all know that inflation is much higher than this and building cost
>inflation is even higher.
>
>It's not in the least surprising that costs are escalating above forecast.

Yes, that sounds right.

Also, as recent reports have shown, the original HS2 planning and cost estimation was more of a desktop exercise, with
no contact with reality. When they actually got stuck in, they discovered that ground conditions were more difficult
than expected, and NIMBY pressure forced more of it to be built in tunnel. Both of those forced the costs up.

Another factor is that the delays have triggered changes in plans that have themselves increased costs. For example, the
DfT decided that the delayed Euston HS2 could manage with one fewer platform than originally planned. This simplifies
the construction, which can be done in one rather than two stages. But it actually increased costs, because the revised
station needed to be redesigned.

On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 13:34:25 +0000
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>Another factor is that the delays have triggered changes in plans that have
>themselves increased costs. For example, the
>DfT decided that the delayed Euston HS2 could manage with one fewer platform
>than originally planned. This simplifies
>the construction, which can be done in one rather than two stages. But it
>actually increased costs, because the revised
>station needed to be redesigned.

I wonder how long until the entire project is abandoned. Rishi is turning out
to be rather sensible so I imagine this is on his radar.

They could do an M6 Toll and use whatever is built as some kind of bypass
for the WCML then join it up wherever feasible without going to the expense
of building a new station at brum.

In message <tui7d2$2ik58$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:40:18 on Sat, 11 Mar
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 13:34:25 +0000
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Another factor is that the delays have triggered changes in plans that have
>>themselves increased costs. For example, the
>>DfT decided that the delayed Euston HS2 could manage with one fewer platform
>>than originally planned. This simplifies
>>the construction, which can be done in one rather than two stages. But it
>>actually increased costs, because the revised
>>station needed to be redesigned.
>
>I wonder how long until the entire project is abandoned. Rishi is turning out
>to be rather sensible so I imagine this is on his radar.
>
>They could do an M6 Toll and use whatever is built as some kind of bypass
>for the WCML then join it up wherever feasible without going to the expense
>of building a new station at brum.

I've long said I seriously doubt Birmingham Interchange will be built
(with the cuts to the overall scope of the network, it's a bit of a lame
duck, unless reduced to a couple of platforms to serve the airport).
Curzon St, on the other hand, is probably the most completed station, to
date.
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 06:14:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>In message <tui7d2$2ik58$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:40:18 on Sat, 11 Mar
>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 13:34:25 +0000
>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>Another factor is that the delays have triggered changes in plans that have
>>>themselves increased costs. For example, the
>>>DfT decided that the delayed Euston HS2 could manage with one fewer platform
>>>than originally planned. This simplifies
>>>the construction, which can be done in one rather than two stages. But it
>>>actually increased costs, because the revised
>>>station needed to be redesigned.
>>
>>I wonder how long until the entire project is abandoned. Rishi is turning out
>>to be rather sensible so I imagine this is on his radar.
>>
>>They could do an M6 Toll and use whatever is built as some kind of bypass
>>for the WCML then join it up wherever feasible without going to the expense
>>of building a new station at brum.
>
>I've long said I seriously doubt Birmingham Interchange will be built
>(with the cuts to the overall scope of the network, it's a bit of a lame
>duck, unless reduced to a couple of platforms to serve the airport).
>Curzon St, on the other hand, is probably the most completed station, to
>date.

It looks like the line is now set to open in about a decade between OOC and Curzon St, via Interchange. Crewe and Euston
will be at least two years behind, and Manchester won't be reached (if at all ) till the 2040s. There will be a lot more
governments trying to cut costs before then...

The current pressure seems to be to cut the short-term spending rate over the next five years (ie, the costs that have
to be paid during the five year spending plan), even if that causes the ultimate cost to rise (even ignoring inflation).

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> It looks like the line is now set to open in about a decade between OOC and Curzon St, via Interchange. Crewe and Euston
> will be at least two years behind, and Manchester won't be reached (if at all ) till the 2040s. There will be a lot more
> governments trying to cut costs before then...

Will there be any connection between HS2 at OOC and the GWML? Or is it
entirely in tunnel at that point? I could see a tempting short term option
might be to run (some) HS2 trains into Paddington.

Now, if there happened to be paths on the fast lines freed up from a certain
airport...

Theo

On 12 Mar 2023 14:45:22 +0000 (GMT), Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It looks like the line is now set to open in about a decade between OOC and Curzon St, via Interchange. Crewe and Euston
>> will be at least two years behind, and Manchester won't be reached (if at all ) till the 2040s. There will be a lot more
>> governments trying to cut costs before then...
>
>Will there be any connection between HS2 at OOC and the GWML? Or is it
>entirely in tunnel at that point? I could see a tempting short term option
>might be to run (some) HS2 trains into Paddington.

No, no rail connection. The 450m long HS2 platforms will be 13.5m lower than the ground level GWML platforms. The HS2
tracks will be in deep bored tunnels at both ends of the station.

In message <MTq*GL3az@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It looks like the line is now set to open in about a decade between
>>OOC and Curzon St, via Interchange. Crewe and Euston
>> will be at least two years behind, and Manchester won't be reached
>>(if at all ) till the 2040s. There will be a lot more
>> governments trying to cut costs before then...
>
>Will there be any connection between HS2 at OOC and the GWML? Or is it
>entirely in tunnel at that point? I could see a tempting short term option
>might be to run (some) HS2 trains into Paddington.
>

As I understand it, HS2 will be underground from Ruislip to Euston, so
there would be no connection. So far as I can tell, the first
connection to outside world (so to speak) would be at Claydon where it
crosses East West Rail, and there will be the infrastructure maintenance
depot.

However, that did leave me to wonder where stock would be stabled /
serviced at the London end.

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "bulleid" with "adrian" - all mail to bulleid is rejected
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

On 12/03/2023 13:32, Recliner wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 06:14:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <tui7d2$2ik58$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:40:18 on Sat, 11 Mar
>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 13:34:25 +0000
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Another factor is that the delays have triggered changes in plans that have
>>>> themselves increased costs. For example, the
>>>> DfT decided that the delayed Euston HS2 could manage with one fewer platform
>>>> than originally planned. This simplifies
>>>> the construction, which can be done in one rather than two stages. But it
>>>> actually increased costs, because the revised
>>>> station needed to be redesigned.
>>>
>>> I wonder how long until the entire project is abandoned. Rishi is turning out
>>> to be rather sensible so I imagine this is on his radar.
>>>
>>> They could do an M6 Toll and use whatever is built as some kind of bypass
>>> for the WCML then join it up wherever feasible without going to the expense
>>> of building a new station at brum.
>>
>> I've long said I seriously doubt Birmingham Interchange will be built
>> (with the cuts to the overall scope of the network, it's a bit of a lame
>> duck, unless reduced to a couple of platforms to serve the airport).
>> Curzon St, on the other hand, is probably the most completed station, to
>> date.
>
> It looks like the line is now set to open in about a decade between OOC and Curzon St, via Interchange. Crewe and Euston
> will be at least two years behind, and Manchester won't be reached (if at all ) till the 2040s. There will be a lot more
> governments trying to cut costs before then...
>
> The current pressure seems to be to cut the short-term spending rate over the next five years (ie, the costs that have
> to be paid during the five year spending plan), even if that causes the ultimate cost to rise (even ignoring inflation).

That will be after the next general election so the politicians don't
care about that.

Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> wrote:
> In message <MTq*GL3az@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> It looks like the line is now set to open in about a decade between
>>> OOC and Curzon St, via Interchange. Crewe and Euston
>>> will be at least two years behind, and Manchester won't be reached
>>> (if at all ) till the 2040s. There will be a lot more
>>> governments trying to cut costs before then...
>>
>> Will there be any connection between HS2 at OOC and the GWML? Or is it
>> entirely in tunnel at that point? I could see a tempting short term option
>> might be to run (some) HS2 trains into Paddington.
>>
>
> As I understand it, HS2 will be underground from Ruislip to Euston, so
> there would be no connection.

Yes

I think there may be one or two shared platforms at Euston, accessible from
both HS2 and the WCML. That might make it possible for HS2 trains to get
to Wembley for minor repairs.

> So far as I can tell, the first
> connection to outside world (so to speak) would be at Claydon where it
> crosses East West Rail, and there will be the infrastructure maintenance
> depot.

Yes, that depot will be connected to both EWR and HS2.

>
> However, that did leave me to wonder where stock would be stabled /
> serviced at the London end.

Might there be a small servicing facility just outside Euston, to the west
of the running tracks?

I don't think there will be anything at or near OOC.

Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 12/03/2023 13:32, Recliner wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 06:14:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <tui7d2$2ik58$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:40:18 on Sat, 11 Mar
>>> 2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 13:34:25 +0000
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Another factor is that the delays have triggered changes in plans that have
>>>>> themselves increased costs. For example, the
>>>>> DfT decided that the delayed Euston HS2 could manage with one fewer platform
>>>>> than originally planned. This simplifies
>>>>> the construction, which can be done in one rather than two stages. But it
>>>>> actually increased costs, because the revised
>>>>> station needed to be redesigned.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how long until the entire project is abandoned. Rishi is turning out
>>>> to be rather sensible so I imagine this is on his radar.
>>>>
>>>> They could do an M6 Toll and use whatever is built as some kind of bypass
>>>> for the WCML then join it up wherever feasible without going to the expense
>>>> of building a new station at brum.
>>>
>>> I've long said I seriously doubt Birmingham Interchange will be built
>>> (with the cuts to the overall scope of the network, it's a bit of a lame
>>> duck, unless reduced to a couple of platforms to serve the airport).
>>> Curzon St, on the other hand, is probably the most completed station, to
>>> date.
>>
>> It looks like the line is now set to open in about a decade between OOC
>> and Curzon St, via Interchange. Crewe and Euston
>> will be at least two years behind, and Manchester won't be reached (if
>> at all ) till the 2040s. There will be a lot more
>> governments trying to cut costs before then...
>>
>> The current pressure seems to be to cut the short-term spending rate
>> over the next five years (ie, the costs that have
>> to be paid during the five year spending plan), even if that causes the
>> ultimate cost to rise (even ignoring inflation).
>
> That will be after the next general election so the politicians don't
> care about that.

Exactly.

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 13:32:36 +0000
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 06:14:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>I've long said I seriously doubt Birmingham Interchange will be built
>>(with the cuts to the overall scope of the network, it's a bit of a lame
>>duck, unless reduced to a couple of platforms to serve the airport).
>>Curzon St, on the other hand, is probably the most completed station, to
>>date.
>
>It looks like the line is now set to open in about a decade between OOC and
>Curzon St, via Interchange. Crewe and Euston
>will be at least two years behind, and Manchester won't be reached (if at all
>) till the 2040s. There will be a lot more
>governments trying to cut costs before then...

I'd lay money on it never going past brum. They'll probably sort-of complete
the section there with more savings made, then the rest of the project will be
kicked into the long grass by the next government and over the years
institutionally forgotten about then quietly buried as more productive uses are
found for the money with the occasional "Whatever happened to HS2" article
in the papers once every few years.

On 12/03/2023 16:17, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 13:32:36 +0000
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 06:14:10 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> I've long said I seriously doubt Birmingham Interchange will be built
>>> (with the cuts to the overall scope of the network, it's a bit of a lame
>>> duck, unless reduced to a couple of platforms to serve the airport).
>>> Curzon St, on the other hand, is probably the most completed station, to
>>> date.
>>
>> It looks like the line is now set to open in about a decade between OOC and
>> Curzon St, via Interchange. Crewe and Euston
>> will be at least two years behind, and Manchester won't be reached (if at all
>> ) till the 2040s. There will be a lot more
>> governments trying to cut costs before then...
>
> I'd lay money on it never going past brum. They'll probably sort-of complete
> the section there with more savings made, then the rest of the project will be
> kicked into the long grass by the next government and over the years
> institutionally forgotten about then quietly buried as more productive uses are
> found for the money with the occasional "Whatever happened to HS2" article
> in the papers once every few years.

It's was originally conceived to relieve the southern part of the WCML
so it'll be back to it's original purpose.