Eddie <eddie@deguello.org> wrote:

> On 11/11/2021 08:26, Champ wrote:
> >
> > Re camchain rattle: In that era Kawasaki had an "automatice camchain
> > tensioner", that wasn't that automatic (perenial problem at the time
> > that all the jap manufacturers suffered with to some extent). But the
> > fix is easy enough...
>
> You forgot to mention needing hands with the size and dexterity of a
> Japanese gynaecologist.

I think even more so with Allen key headed screws . . . at least I've
got some benefit from my training in obstetrics :-)

With an assortment of bits & spanners I managed to loosen one of the
screws holding the CCT to the engine. Then I noticed one protruding
screw on the left side of the unit that didn't look like what I
remembered from a googled image of the original unit.

Hard to tell what this modification is supposed to do before I get off
the whole unit.

But what is the intended function of the original screw at that
location?

Original Kawa CCT: <https://i.postimg.cc/fyfNqTcX/CCT-for-z650-750.png>

My modified CCT: <https://i.postimg.cc/pLg68M8t/Modified-CCT.jpg>

--
ts // scrap vehicle to send e-mail
Finally four Boxers!

ts <exbn-ppin@deavolvo.spamcon.org> wrote:
> Eddie <eddie@deguello.org> wrote:
>
>> On 11/11/2021 08:26, Champ wrote:
>> >
>> > Re camchain rattle: In that era Kawasaki had an "automatice camchain
>> > tensioner", that wasn't that automatic (perenial problem at the time
>> > that all the jap manufacturers suffered with to some extent). But the
>> > fix is easy enough...
>>
>> You forgot to mention needing hands with the size and dexterity of a
>> Japanese gynaecologist.
>
> I think even more so with Allen key headed screws . . . at least I've
> got some benefit from my training in obstetrics :-)
>
> With an assortment of bits & spanners I managed to loosen one of the
> screws holding the CCT to the engine. Then I noticed one protruding
> screw on the left side of the unit that didn't look like what I
> remembered from a googled image of the original unit.
>
> Hard to tell what this modification is supposed to do before I get off
> the whole unit.
>
> But what is the intended function of the original screw at that
> location?
>
> Original Kawa CCT: <https://i.postimg.cc/fyfNqTcX/CCT-for-z650-750.png>
>
> My modified CCT: <https://i.postimg.cc/pLg68M8t/Modified-CCT.jpg>

From memory, the original screw at that location is a retainer that
keeps the spring loaded plunger from escaping the CCT mechanism. It
appears the bodger responsible may have re-purposed it as a grub screw.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 20/11/2021 16:17, Mark Olson wrote:
> ts <exbn-ppin@deavolvo.spamcon.org> wrote:
>> Eddie <eddie@deguello.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/11/2021 08:26, Champ wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Re camchain rattle: In that era Kawasaki had an "automatice camchain
>>>> tensioner", that wasn't that automatic (perenial problem at the time
>>>> that all the jap manufacturers suffered with to some extent). But the
>>>> fix is easy enough...
>>>
>>> You forgot to mention needing hands with the size and dexterity of a
>>> Japanese gynaecologist.
>>
>> I think even more so with Allen key headed screws . . . at least I've
>> got some benefit from my training in obstetrics :-)
>>
>> With an assortment of bits & spanners I managed to loosen one of the
>> screws holding the CCT to the engine. Then I noticed one protruding
>> screw on the left side of the unit that didn't look like what I
>> remembered from a googled image of the original unit.
>>
>> Hard to tell what this modification is supposed to do before I get off
>> the whole unit.
>>
>> But what is the intended function of the original screw at that
>> location?
>>
>> Original Kawa CCT: <https://i.postimg.cc/fyfNqTcX/CCT-for-z650-750.png>
>>
>> My modified CCT: <https://i.postimg.cc/pLg68M8t/Modified-CCT.jpg>
>
> From memory, the original screw at that location is a retainer that
> keeps the spring loaded plunger from escaping the CCT mechanism. It
> appears the bodger responsible may have re-purposed it as a grub screw.

Your memory is correct. There's a video here that shows the innards.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHzI80Mv4oY>

Slightly annoyingly the bloke doesn't show the two plungers working
against each other but it's clear that the screw that has been modified
is just a retaining screw.

Which then begs the question of why go to the trouble of tapping it out
and threading in another? If you wanted a grub screw then it would be a
lot simpler to get a longer replacement, file it down a bit to the right
length and then screw that in tight to lock the tensioner plunger.

The bodged screw appears to have some slots cut into the thread. If
these go right through then they would allow a tiny amount of air in or
out and so could act as a crankcase pressure release. Screwing in or out
would allow the amount to be adjusted.

It's a cunning idea if it works but I would have thought it would spew
(or at least ooze) oil sooner or later?

--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

On 25/10/2021 20:02, ts wrote:
> In the BHP/wheel thread, different Kawa GPz's were discussed, as bikes
> worth having / owning again.
>
> I've only once ridden a Kawasaki, a green Z650 demo bike back in 1978,
> so I know little about what goes wrong with them. Just saw an ad for an
> '84 GPz750, which doesn't look molested, but it has 42 kMiles on the
> clock, and is a recent used import, so presumably without service
> history. The seller mentions the engine stumbles when cold, and has
> suggested carbs /valves as possible repair jobs.
>
> He seller posted a video of it running in the ad:
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9fpNPf9-uU>
>
> Are any of you able to tell anything about the engine from hearing it
> run? The seller also mentioned the flashing red warning light, and said
> he didn't know what it meant.
>
> I have enough bikes as it is, so won't be offended of the verdict is
> that it's about to self destruct.
>

I've just been down to look for something from my lockup, and lifted up
a cover to find a Kawasaki engine. And nearby there's a frame, and a
complete front end. I think it's another GPz 550 (I sold the running one
to Champ). I have no recollection of where it came from. Weird.

I also appear to have three 400/4 frames, and can only remember where
two of them came from. I think they're breeding.

--
/Simon

On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 4:36:49 PM UTC-6, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> On 20/11/2021 16:17, Mark Olson wrote:

> > From memory, the original screw at that location is a retainer that
> > keeps the spring loaded plunger from escaping the CCT mechanism. It
> > appears the bodger responsible may have re-purposed it as a grub screw.
> Your memory is correct. There's a video here that shows the innards.
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHzI80Mv4oY>

> The bodged screw appears to have some slots cut into the thread. If
> these go right through then they would allow a tiny amount of air in or
> out and so could act as a crankcase pressure release. Screwing in or out
> would allow the amount to be adjusted.
>
> It's a cunning idea if it works but I would have thought it would spew
> (or at least ooze) oil sooner or later?

I wouldn't credit the bodger with that much cunning. Most of this sort of thing
that I encounter on SOBs isn't indicative of much ingenuity.

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 16:36:41 +0100, exbn-ppin@deaVOLVO.spamcon.org
(ts) wrote:

>With an assortment of bits & spanners I managed to loosen one of the
>screws holding the CCT to the engine. Then I noticed one protruding
>screw on the left side of the unit that didn't look like what I
>remembered from a googled image of the original unit.
>
>Hard to tell what this modification is supposed to do before I get off
>the whole unit.
>
>But what is the intended function of the original screw at that
>location?
>
>Original Kawa CCT: <https://i.postimg.cc/fyfNqTcX/CCT-for-z650-750.png>
>
>My modified CCT: <https://i.postimg.cc/pLg68M8t/Modified-CCT.jpg>

Hmmm x 2

First of all, I'm pretty sure that CCT hsa been fitted upside down.
The cross-plunger definitely should exit on the RHS, over the clutch
cover.

Secondly, and more significantly, it has been converted/bodged to be
manual, not automatic, The tapped bolt with the locknut is there to
hold the tensioner plunger in place. As the camchain wears, if that
is not released and then retightened, then it will just rattle.

So.... I would suggest the following:
- replace the cross-plunger, spring and cover.
- loosen the modified/bodged tapped bolt (locknut first, obvs)
- tap the whole assembly with a hammer (or maybe place a screwdriver
against the CCT and hit that with a hammer)
- retighten the cross bolt and then its locknut
- run the engine and see if the rattle has gone/improved
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:10:06 +0000, siwilson
<siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:

>I've just been down to look for something from my lockup, and lifted up
>a cover to find a Kawasaki engine. And nearby there's a frame, and a
>complete front end. I think it's another GPz 550 (I sold the running one
>to Champ). I have no recollection of where it came from. Weird.

Wow!

I'll have that off you, fellah....for a consideration :-) If you want
rid, of course
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 21/11/2021 13:00, M. Olson from Google Groups wrote:
> I wouldn't credit the bodger with that much cunning. Most of this sort of thing
> that I encounter on SOBs isn't indicative of much ingenuity.

True - I'm not going to argue too much on this one.

At least the bodge has the saving grace that it is reversible for the
cost of a small screw.
--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

On 21/11/2021 23:47, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> On 21/11/2021 13:00, M. Olson from Google Groups wrote:
>> I wouldn't credit the bodger with that much cunning. Most of this sort
>> of thing
>> that I encounter on SOBs isn't indicative of much ingenuity.
>
> True - I'm not going to argue too much on this one.
>
> At least the bodge has the saving grace that it is reversible for the
> cost of a small screw.

That's hundreds of thousands of pounds, if the small screw is Jennifer
Arcuri.

Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:

> So.... I would suggest the following:
> - replace the cross-plunger, spring and cover.
> - loosen the modified/bodged tapped bolt (locknut first, obvs)
> - tap the whole assembly with a hammer (or maybe place a screwdriver
> against the CCT and hit that with a hammer)
> - retighten the cross bolt and then its locknut
> - run the engine and see if the rattle has gone/improved

The GPz being tucked away in a full garage[1] hasn't improved my chances
to get any further with this bike until recently, when all the other
bikes were taken out. Part of the challenge was that when I had
re-assembled the CCT in "automatic mode", as Champ suggested, the
starter engine engaged by itself when the battery was reconnected,
neccessitating a going over of the electrical system.

This was how the previous owner had had the battery installed:
<https://i.postimg.cc/zfQjN0Mg/GPz-battery-3058.jpg>

Nearly a full inch wider than the tray, the battery was left to rattle
against the assorted wires next to it . . . Result: one wire crimped
into the ground battery "clamp" had been ripped of, and several other
wires had been pushed hard aside - I have no idea of the cumulative
effect of the latter, but after reconnecting the ground pole wire,
loosening up and wiggling the other wires and block connectiors,
reconnecting the stray lead on top of the neg. pole to the pos pole,
wiggling the starter relay(s?), it looks like the elctrical system now
works as intended :-)

The engine started up without drama, and settled into a very lumpy and
erratic idle as it warmed up. As if it ran on 3.7 cylinders. A close
look at the carbs revealed that the rubber bung on one of the vacuum
take offs was missing. With a makeshift plug attached it ran pretty
smooth.

So, out for a test run. Hesitating at low revs first, to the extent that
the engine died instead of picking up revs (and power). A half full tank
of fresh 95 unleaded at the nearest petrol station seemed to help (the
fuel in the tank may have been close to two years old), and after
circling for a while around the block, the engine ran considerably
better. So, off on my first real ride on the bike, a couple of miles
down the valley at the main unrestricted[2] road.

Verdict: very nice :-)

The CC rattle is down to normal (from how I can judge it) levels, so the
CCT "service" seems to have helped. Possibly the lumpy running due to
one missing vacuum plug exacerbated the rattle initially.

The electrics seem to behave; no flashing warning light, unless the side
stand is down (which is nice), even the fuel guague and the (almost
invisible) side stand warning flasher in the tank display window works.

Unless other issues show up, I'm going to check out the suspension; the
forks bottoms out when compressing hard (thicker fork oil?)

[1] winter storage facility at my local MC clubs house
[2] in Noway, that's a 50 MPH limit unless the cops aren't looking

--
ts // scrap vehicle to send e-mail
Finally four Boxers!

On Fri, 13 May 2022 21:07:00 +0200, exbn-ppin@deaVOLVO.spamcon.org
(ts) wrote:

>Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> So.... I would suggest the following:
>> - replace the cross-plunger, spring and cover.
>> - loosen the modified/bodged tapped bolt (locknut first, obvs)
>> - tap the whole assembly with a hammer (or maybe place a screwdriver
>> against the CCT and hit that with a hammer)
>> - retighten the cross bolt and then its locknut
>> - run the engine and see if the rattle has gone/improved

Blimey, this was a while ago!

<snip tales of fixing electrical bodgery etc>

>The CC rattle is down to normal (from how I can judge it) levels, so the
>CCT "service" seems to have helped. Possibly the lumpy running due to
>one missing vacuum plug exacerbated the rattle initially.

These are good points. All engines of that era had some camchain
noise, and as it's an old engine, it will rattle more. Also,
four-cylinder engines are very prone to being mechanically noisy if
badly carburetted, ime. I knew of one engine that had appalling
primary chain noise which was fixed by sorting the carbs out!

--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 13/05/2022 20:07, ts wrote:
>
> This was how the previous owner had had the battery installed:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/zfQjN0Mg/GPz-battery-3058.jpg>

fx: Wilhelm scream

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On 14/05/2022 15:55, Eddie wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 20:07, ts wrote:
>>
>> This was how the previous owner had had the battery installed:
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/zfQjN0Mg/GPz-battery-3058.jpg>
>
> fx: Wilhelm scream
>
Absolutely - not a sign of any gaffer tape at all!

Chris

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 16/05/2022 10:03, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
> On 14/05/2022 15:55, Eddie wrote:
>> On 13/05/2022 20:07, ts wrote:
>>>
>>> This was how the previous owner had had the battery installed:
>>> <https://i.postimg.cc/zfQjN0Mg/GPz-battery-3058.jpg>
>>
>> fx: Wilhelm scream
>>
> Absolutely - not a sign of any gaffer tape at all!

Looks like gaffer tape on those extra cables to the battery. At least, I
hope they're extra cables, and not the main starter circuit.

Definite lack of cable ties, though.

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org