Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <u11uhv$2ao3j$6@dont-email.me>, at 21:19:59 on Mon, 10 Apr
> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 08:13:01 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 9 Apr 2023 16:31:51 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> But our government won’t even countenance the trading block
>>>>>>>>> idea, thus
>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> remain outside of the EEA.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The EEA is essentially paying to be in the EU but without a vote
>>>>>>>> on any of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> rules. Its the worst of both worlds.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the brexiteers wanted out of the rule making process….
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, we wanted out of the rules and out of any political control by
>>>>>> brussels.
>>>>>> And if a few million east europeans could bugger off too so much
>>>>>> the better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Weirdly the sense of much of the rhetoric about being rule makers rather
>>>>> than rule takers (did anyone ever use that rather lame term before the
>>>>> Brexiteers invented it?) seemed to be that the UK wouldn’t be subject to
>>>>> the EU’s rules **even when dealing with the EU**. What kind of
>>>>> exceptionalist British Empire universe did those people think we live in?
>>>>
>>>> We trade with the USA, are we bound by their rules?
>>>
>>> Yes, of course we are. Whatever trade deals we can make with them are
>>> negotiated with them (and if you hadn’t noticed they’re much bigger and
>>> richer than we are so who do you think has the advantage?) and whatever we
>>> sell to them has to match their regulatory frameworks, not ours.
>>
>> Do we actually have a US trade deal? You don't need one to trade.
>
> Without one (and especially not a *free-trade* deal), things are much
> more complicated on multiple levels.
>
> Back in the day my friend and I (and several usefully employed locals)
> made a business out of, amongst other things, being willing to export
> hi-tech electronic components mainly to ex-pat radio amateurs living in
> the Commonwealth. Where none of the other suppliers would be prepared to
> get involved in either the export paperwork (or tangentially the inbound
> currency conversions).
>
> Fast forward to today, and two acquaintances (one in UK and one in
> Germany) have both decided to cease their cross-channel mail-order
> operations [exporting UK-EU and DE-UK respectively] because of the
> burden of the post-Brexit paperwork.

Yes, lots of small businesses (on both sides) have given up on EU-UK trade.
The paperwork is simply too much for small orders.

But we don't have a trade agreement with the US, do we?

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <u11dvo$286fa$5@dont-email.me>, at 16:37:12 on Mon, 10 Apr
> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>>> Let's suppose a UK pension/investment fund is constrained to invest
>>>> only in listed companies, and wants to have a proportion of its
>>>> long-term investments in new industries. It defines these as:
>>>>
>>>> AI Software
>>>> Autonomous vehicle technology
>>>> Batteries for electric vehicles
>>>> Biotechnology
>>>> Computer hardware
>>>> Electric vehicle manufacture
>>>> Games software
>>>> Light rail vehicle manufacture
>>>> Microchip design
>>>> Microchip manufacture
>>>> Mobile phones and smart watches
>>>> Robotics
>>>> Satellite launching
>>>> Satellite manufacturing
>>>> Smart hardware for home use
>>>> Social media
>>>> Virtual reality
>>>> Wind turbine manufacturers
>>>>
>>>> Which listed UK companies do you suggest they invest in to get this
>>>> exposure? I don't think there are many.
>>>>
>>>> [I'm not asking for your view on whether these are good sectors to invest in.]
>>>
>>> Games software is apparently something the UK excels in, at least in
>>> terms of getting the work done. I haven't looked to see if those
>>> companies are listed, or where.
>>
>> I suggest you check.
>
> Usenet etiquette is that if you have a point to make, you produce the
> data.

So produce the data to support your contention that games software is
something the UK excels in - that seems to be the point you’re trying to
make.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 08:13:01 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 9 Apr 2023 16:31:51 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> But our government won’t even countenance the trading block idea, thus
>>>> we
>>>>>>>> remain outside of the EEA.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The EEA is essentially paying to be in the EU but without a vote on any of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> rules. Its the worst of both worlds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the brexiteers wanted out of the rule making process….
>>>>>
>>>>> No, we wanted out of the rules and out of any political control by brussels.
>>>>> And if a few million east europeans could bugger off too so much the better.
>>>>
>>>> Weirdly the sense of much of the rhetoric about being rule makers rather
>>>> than rule takers (did anyone ever use that rather lame term before the
>>>> Brexiteers invented it?) seemed to be that the UK wouldn’t be subject to
>>>> the EU’s rules **even when dealing with the EU**. What kind of
>>>> exceptionalist British Empire universe did those people think we live in?
>>>
>>> We trade with the USA, are we bound by their rules?
>>
>> Yes, of course we are. Whatever trade deals we can make with them are
>> negotiated with them (and if you hadn’t noticed they’re much bigger and
>> richer than we are so who do you think has the advantage?) and whatever we
>> sell to them has to match their regulatory frameworks, not ours.
>>
>
> Do we actually have a US trade deal? You don't need one to trade.

Good point - UK-US trade deals are somewhat hypothetical at the moment
(though I did find this which surprised me - I hadn’t realised we’d got
that desperate <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61604784>; it also
may be relevant to the parallel discussion about differences between US
states).

The point about selling things into any regulated US market still stands.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 21:29:45 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:25:12 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>wrote:
>>All speaking english in an american accent.
>>
>Which "American accent" ?

Doesn't matter. To my ears there's only 3 accents in the US anyway , new york,
southern and everywhere else.

>>There has been constant immigration into the US but it started off mainly
>>northern european.
>>
>Nothing to do with the French and the Spanish?

The spanish went south and last time I looked france was in northern europe.

On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 21:27:26 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:22:30 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>wrote:
>>In the whole of the UK?
>>
>"They come here, they take our jobs." Rinse and repeat.

Huh?

>>Thatcher getting kicked out had nothing to do with duffing up the miners.
>>People were grateful for that (except the miners obviously).
>>
>People weren't grateful for a politician manufacturing the
>circumstances for trouble as was done by encouraging miners to build
>up larger than usual reserves.

The miners had been trouble since the early 70s and like the RMT now had
got used to being able to throw their weight around and get their own way
with some useless labour government just gibbering and giving in each time.

They had set themselves up for a kicking and they got one. Meanwhile
Scargill paid himself a fortune and had a nice flat in the Barbican which
is probably worth 7 figures now.

On 11/04/2023 12:59, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 21:29:45 +0100
> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:25:12 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>> wrote:
>>> All speaking english in an american accent.
>>>
>> Which "American accent" ?
>
> Doesn't matter. To my ears there's only 3 accents in the US anyway , new york,
> southern and everywhere else.
>
>>> There has been constant immigration into the US but it started off mainly
>>> northern european.
>>>
>> Nothing to do with the French and the Spanish?
>
> The spanish went south and last time I looked france was in northern europe.
>

You've never heard of New Orleans then?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 11:53:40 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 08:13:01 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 9 Apr 2023 16:31:51 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> But our government won’t even countenance the trading block idea, thus
>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> remain outside of the EEA.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The EEA is essentially paying to be in the EU but without a vote on any of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> rules. Its the worst of both worlds.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the brexiteers wanted out of the rule making process….
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, we wanted out of the rules and out of any political control by brussels.
>>>>>> And if a few million east europeans could bugger off too so much the better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Weirdly the sense of much of the rhetoric about being rule makers rather
>>>>> than rule takers (did anyone ever use that rather lame term before the
>>>>> Brexiteers invented it?) seemed to be that the UK wouldn’t be subject to
>>>>> the EU’s rules **even when dealing with the EU**. What kind of
>>>>> exceptionalist British Empire universe did those people think we live in?
>>>>
>>>> We trade with the USA, are we bound by their rules?
>>>
>>> Yes, of course we are. Whatever trade deals we can make with them are
>>> negotiated with them (and if you hadn’t noticed they’re much bigger and
>>> richer than we are so who do you think has the advantage?) and whatever we
>>> sell to them has to match their regulatory frameworks, not ours.
>>>
>>
>> Do we actually have a US trade deal? You don't need one to trade.
>
>Good point - UK-US trade deals are somewhat hypothetical at the moment
>(though I did find this which surprised me - I hadn’t realised we’d got
>that desperate <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61604784>; it also
>may be relevant to the parallel discussion about differences between US
>states).
>
>The point about selling things into any regulated US market still stands.

I think there's very little chance of any UK-US trade deal. The US is very protectionist, and will have little to offer
our exporters, and we won't particularly welcome large volumes of any potential US export to us. Biden certainly won't
be doing one, and a Democratic Congress would probably block one struck by a future Republican president.

That's one reason we're joining the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP). The
US was behind its creation, but then Trump pulled out. The agreement went ahead anyway, and we think it much more likely
that the US will one day join the CPTPP than strike a bespoke UK-US trade deal. So, the CPTPP is seen a backdoor way of
our getting some level of free trade with the US, without either side having to make painful concessions on things like
food standards.

In message <u13gg1$2kjc3$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:32:17 on Tue, 11 Apr
2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <u11dvo$286fa$5@dont-email.me>, at 16:37:12 on Mon, 10 Apr
>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>>> Let's suppose a UK pension/investment fund is constrained to invest
>>>>> only in listed companies, and wants to have a proportion of its
>>>>> long-term investments in new industries. It defines these as:
>>>>>
>>>>> AI Software
>>>>> Autonomous vehicle technology
>>>>> Batteries for electric vehicles
>>>>> Biotechnology
>>>>> Computer hardware
>>>>> Electric vehicle manufacture
>>>>> Games software
>>>>> Light rail vehicle manufacture
>>>>> Microchip design
>>>>> Microchip manufacture
>>>>> Mobile phones and smart watches
>>>>> Robotics
>>>>> Satellite launching
>>>>> Satellite manufacturing
>>>>> Smart hardware for home use
>>>>> Social media
>>>>> Virtual reality
>>>>> Wind turbine manufacturers
>>>>>
>>>>> Which listed UK companies do you suggest they invest in to get this
>>>>> exposure? I don't think there are many.
>>>>>
>>>>> [I'm not asking for your view on whether these are good sectors to
>>>>>invest in.]
>>>>
>>>> Games software is apparently something the UK excels in, at least in
>>>> terms of getting the work done. I haven't looked to see if those
>>>> companies are listed, or where.
>>>
>>> I suggest you check.
>>
>> Usenet etiquette is that if you have a point to make, you produce the
>> data.
>
>So produce the data to support your contention that games software is
>something the UK excels in - that seems to be the point you’re trying to
>make.

First Google hit, and it's been in the news again the last couple of
weeks:

<https://www.thecreativeindustries.co.uk/facts-figures/industries-
games-games-facts-and-figures-economic-contribution>

Or if it was investments we were interested in:

<https://moneyweek.com/investments/stocks-and-shares/share-
tips/605265/how-to-invest-in-videogames-industry>

Including:

"Today there are four listed videogame companies on Aim, the
London Stock exchange's junior market, collectively worth
just under £4bn: Devolver Digital, Frontier Developments,
Keywords Studios and Team17"
--
Roland Perry

In message <u13ejd$2kdd2$5@dont-email.me>, at 10:59:57 on Tue, 11 Apr
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <u11uhv$2ao3j$6@dont-email.me>, at 21:19:59 on Mon, 10 Apr
>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 08:13:01 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 9 Apr 2023 16:31:51 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> But our government won’t even countenance the trading block
>>>>>>>>>> idea, thus
>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> remain outside of the EEA.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The EEA is essentially paying to be in the EU but without a vote
>>>>>>>>> on any of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> rules. Its the worst of both worlds.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But the brexiteers wanted out of the rule making process….
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, we wanted out of the rules and out of any political control by
>>>>>>> brussels.
>>>>>>> And if a few million east europeans could bugger off too so much
>>>>>>> the better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Weirdly the sense of much of the rhetoric about being rule makers rather
>>>>>> than rule takers (did anyone ever use that rather lame term before the
>>>>>> Brexiteers invented it?) seemed to be that the UK wouldn’t be
>>>>>>subject to
>>>>>> the EU’s rules **even when dealing with the EU**. What kind of
>>>>>> exceptionalist British Empire universe did those people think we live in?
>>>>>
>>>>> We trade with the USA, are we bound by their rules?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, of course we are. Whatever trade deals we can make with them are
>>>> negotiated with them (and if you hadn’t noticed they’re much bigger and
>>>> richer than we are so who do you think has the advantage?) and whatever we
>>>> sell to them has to match their regulatory frameworks, not ours.
>>>
>>> Do we actually have a US trade deal? You don't need one to trade.
>>
>> Without one (and especially not a *free-trade* deal), things are much
>> more complicated on multiple levels.
>>
>> Back in the day my friend and I (and several usefully employed locals)
>> made a business out of, amongst other things, being willing to export
>> hi-tech electronic components mainly to ex-pat radio amateurs living in
>> the Commonwealth. Where none of the other suppliers would be prepared to
>> get involved in either the export paperwork (or tangentially the inbound
>> currency conversions).
>>
>> Fast forward to today, and two acquaintances (one in UK and one in
>> Germany) have both decided to cease their cross-channel mail-order
>> operations [exporting UK-EU and DE-UK respectively] because of the
>> burden of the post-Brexit paperwork.
>
>Yes, lots of small businesses (on both sides) have given up on EU-UK trade.
>The paperwork is simply too much for small orders.
>
>But we don't have a trade agreement with the US, do we?

Indeed not, but neither of my two acquaintances had or have ambitions
export to there.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 13:12:51 +0100
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 11/04/2023 12:59, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 21:29:45 +0100
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:25:12 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>> wrote:
>>>> All speaking english in an american accent.
>>>>
>>> Which "American accent" ?
>>
>> Doesn't matter. To my ears there's only 3 accents in the US anyway , new
>york,
>> southern and everywhere else.
>>
>>>> There has been constant immigration into the US but it started off mainly
>>>> northern european.
>>>>
>>> Nothing to do with the French and the Spanish?
>>
>> The spanish went south and last time I looked france was in northern europe.
>>
>
>You've never heard of New Orleans then?

Um, french, yes? Not spanish.

On 11/04/2023 18:49, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 13:12:51 +0100
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 11/04/2023 12:59, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 21:29:45 +0100
>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:25:12 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> All speaking english in an american accent.
>>>>>
>>>> Which "American accent" ?
>>>
>>> Doesn't matter. To my ears there's only 3 accents in the US anyway , new
>> york,
>>> southern and everywhere else.
>>>
>>>>> There has been constant immigration into the US but it started off mainly
>>>>> northern european.
>>>>>
>>>> Nothing to do with the French and the Spanish?
>>>
>>> The spanish went south and last time I looked france was in northern europe.
>>>
>>
>> You've never heard of New Orleans then?
>
> Um, french, yes? Not spanish.
>
>

See Texas and California. The former was part of Greater Mexico before
Davy Crocket and his pals stayed at the Alamo B&B.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 11:59:55 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 21:27:26 +0100
>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:22:30 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>wrote:
>>>In the whole of the UK?
>>>
>>"They come here, they take our jobs." Rinse and repeat.
>
>Huh?
>
If you send miners cycling around the country where the spare
workforce exceeds the number of vacancies then they are likely to stop
someone else getting a job in the place that they go to.

>>>Thatcher getting kicked out had nothing to do with duffing up the miners.
>>>People were grateful for that (except the miners obviously).
>>>
>>People weren't grateful for a politician manufacturing the
>>circumstances for trouble as was done by encouraging miners to build
>>up larger than usual reserves.
>
>The miners had been trouble since the early 70s and like the RMT now had
>got used to being able to throw their weight around and get their own way
>with some useless labour government just gibbering and giving in each time.
>
>They had set themselves up for a kicking and they got one. Meanwhile
>Scargill paid himself a fortune and had a nice flat in the Barbican which
>is probably worth 7 figures now.
>
The people doing the kicking didn't care about the collateral damage
to families and communities because that wasn't where they were going
to get their votes from.

On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 11:53:40 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 08:13:01 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 9 Apr 2023 16:31:51 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> But our government won’t even countenance the trading block idea, thus
>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> remain outside of the EEA.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The EEA is essentially paying to be in the EU but without a vote on any of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> rules. Its the worst of both worlds.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the brexiteers wanted out of the rule making process….
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, we wanted out of the rules and out of any political control by brussels.
>>>>>> And if a few million east europeans could bugger off too so much the better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Weirdly the sense of much of the rhetoric about being rule makers rather
>>>>> than rule takers (did anyone ever use that rather lame term before the
>>>>> Brexiteers invented it?) seemed to be that the UK wouldn’t be subject to
>>>>> the EU’s rules **even when dealing with the EU**. What kind of
>>>>> exceptionalist British Empire universe did those people think we live in?
>>>>
>>>> We trade with the USA, are we bound by their rules?
>>>
>>> Yes, of course we are. Whatever trade deals we can make with them are
>>> negotiated with them (and if you hadn’t noticed they’re much bigger and
>>> richer than we are so who do you think has the advantage?) and whatever we
>>> sell to them has to match their regulatory frameworks, not ours.
>>>
>>
>> Do we actually have a US trade deal? You don't need one to trade.
>
>Good point - UK-US trade deals are somewhat hypothetical at the moment
>(though I did find this which surprised me - I hadn’t realised we’d got
>that desperate <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61604784>; it also
>may be relevant to the parallel discussion about differences between US
>states).
>
>The point about selling things into any regulated US market still stands.
>
A lot of people who think or have been convinced it is all very simple
have maybe never done an international transaction above the personal
import levels so have missed out on the paperwork and extra
transactions involved.

On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 15:56:33 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 11/04/2023 12:59, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 21:29:45 +0100
>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:25:12 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> All speaking english in an american accent.
>>>>>
>>>> Which "American accent" ?
>>>
>>> Doesn't matter. To my ears there's only 3 accents in the US anyway , new york,
>>> southern and everywhere else.
>>>
>>>>> There has been constant immigration into the US but it started off mainly
>>>>> northern european.
>>>>>
>>>> Nothing to do with the French and the Spanish?
>>>
>>> The spanish went south and last time I looked france was in northern europe.
>>>
And in North America and the Caribbean.

>>
>> You've never heard of New Orleans then?
>
>Or <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Purchase>?
>
There are around two million people in New England with French
ancestry whose ancestors moved from Canada in the 19th and early 20th
centuries.

On 11 Apr 2023 16:04:01 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
wrote:

>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 10/04/2023 21:50, Marland wrote:
>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 19:55:38 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:12:21 +0100
>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 07:34:50 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> You're deliberatly or otherwise conflating culture and economics. England
>>>>>>> shares far more culturally with scotland and wales than it does with the EU
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> There isn't as much shared as you might like to think. There are long
>>>>>
>>>>> There's a lot.
>>>>>
>>>> But still not as much as you imply.
>>> A look at some Scottish TV productions especially sit coms that may have
>>> some humorous element in them shows some of the differences. Whatever the
>>> audience is laughing at can appear really strange
>>> south of the border.
>>>
>>
>> If your really want a classic example of cultural differences, Irn Bru!
>> apparently north of the border it is considered drinkable.
>
It is presumably also considered drinkable in the many places south of
the border where it occupies not-insignificant areas of supermarket
shelf. As with many other drinks, don't drink it warm.

>(See also Buckfast)
>>
No thanks. Apparently it is best drunk after already getting p1ssed on
something else.

>
>Actually I quite like Irn Bru, Back when alchopops were all the rage there
>was an alcoholic version
>which could be a bit naughty.
>IIRC Scotland is one the few places where the local drink still outsells
>the well known Cola drinks
>
>GH

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 10/04/2023 21:50, Marland wrote:
>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 19:55:38 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:12:21 +0100
>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 07:34:50 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> You're deliberatly or otherwise conflating culture and economics. England
>>>>>>> shares far more culturally with scotland and wales than it does with the EU
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> There isn't as much shared as you might like to think. There are long
>>>>>
>>>>> There's a lot.
>>>>>
>>>> But still not as much as you imply.
>>> A look at some Scottish TV productions especially sit coms that may have
>>> some humorous element in them shows some of the differences. Whatever the
>>> audience is laughing at can appear really strange
>>> south of the border.
>>>
>>
>> If your really want a classic example of cultural differences, Irn Bru!
>> apparently north of the border it is considered drinkable. (See also
>> Buckfast)
>>
>
> Actually I quite like Irn Bru, Back when alchopops were all the rage there
> was an alcoholic version
> which could be a bit naughty.
> IIRC Scotland is one the few places where the local drink still outsells
> the well known Cola drinks

I recommend S.Luca of Musselburgh’s Irn Bru Sorbet. They deliver, but only
to EH postcodes. I don’t think they do a Buckfast variety.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11/04/2023 12:59, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 21:29:45 +0100
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:25:12 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>> wrote:
>>>> All speaking english in an american accent.
>>>>
>>> Which "American accent" ?
>>
>> Doesn't matter. To my ears there's only 3 accents in the US anyway , new york,
>> southern and everywhere else.
>>
>>>> There has been constant immigration into the US but it started off mainly
>>>> northern european.
>>>>
>>> Nothing to do with the French and the Spanish?
>>
>> The spanish went south and last time I looked france was in northern europe.
>>
>
> You've never heard of New Orleans then?

Or <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Purchase>?

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 10/04/2023 21:50, Marland wrote:
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 19:55:38 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:12:21 +0100
>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 07:34:50 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> You're deliberatly or otherwise conflating culture and economics. England
>>>>>> shares far more culturally with scotland and wales than it does with the EU
>>>>>>
>>>>> There isn't as much shared as you might like to think. There are long
>>>>
>>>> There's a lot.
>>>>
>>> But still not as much as you imply.
>> A look at some Scottish TV productions especially sit coms that may have
>> some humorous element in them shows some of the differences. Whatever the
>> audience is laughing at can appear really strange
>> south of the border.
>>
>
> If your really want a classic example of cultural differences, Irn Bru!
> apparently north of the border it is considered drinkable. (See also
> Buckfast)
>

Actually I quite like Irn Bru, Back when alchopops were all the rage there
was an alcoholic version
which could be a bit naughty.
IIRC Scotland is one the few places where the local drink still outsells
the well known Cola drinks

GH

On 11/04/2023 16:19, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <u13ejd$2kdd2$5@dont-email.me>, at 10:59:57 on Tue, 11 Apr
> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <u11uhv$2ao3j$6@dont-email.me>, at 21:19:59 on Mon, 10 Apr
>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 08:13:01 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 9 Apr 2023 16:31:51 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> But our government won’t even countenance the trading block
>>>>>>>>>>> idea, thus
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> remain outside of the EEA.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The EEA is essentially paying to be in the EU but without a vote
>>>>>>>>>> on any of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> rules. Its the worst of both worlds.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But the brexiteers wanted out of the rule making process….
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, we wanted out of the rules and out of any political control by
>>>>>>>> brussels.
>>>>>>>> And if a few million east europeans could bugger off too so much
>>>>>>>> the better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Weirdly the sense of much of the rhetoric about being rule makers
>>>>>>> rather
>>>>>>> than rule takers (did anyone ever use that rather lame term
>>>>>>> before the
>>>>>>> Brexiteers invented it?) seemed to be that the UK wouldn’t be
>>>>>>> subject to
>>>>>>> the EU’s rules **even when dealing with the EU**.  What kind of
>>>>>>> exceptionalist British Empire universe did those people think we
>>>>>>> live in?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We trade with the USA, are we bound by their rules?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, of course we are.  Whatever trade deals we can make with them are
>>>>> negotiated with them (and if you hadn’t noticed they’re much bigger
>>>>> and
>>>>> richer than we are so who do you think has the advantage?) and
>>>>> whatever we
>>>>> sell to them has to match their regulatory frameworks, not ours.
>>>>
>>>> Do we actually have a US trade deal?  You don't need one to trade.
>>>
>>> Without one (and especially not a *free-trade* deal), things are much
>>> more complicated on multiple levels.
>>>
>>> Back in the day my friend and I (and several usefully employed locals)
>>> made a business out of, amongst other things, being willing to export
>>> hi-tech electronic components mainly to ex-pat radio amateurs living in
>>> the Commonwealth. Where none of the other suppliers would be prepared to
>>> get involved in either the export paperwork (or tangentially the inbound
>>> currency conversions).
>>>
>>> Fast forward to today, and two acquaintances (one in UK and one in
>>> Germany) have both decided to cease their cross-channel mail-order
>>> operations [exporting UK-EU and DE-UK respectively] because of the
>>> burden of the post-Brexit paperwork.
>>
>> Yes, lots of small businesses (on both sides) have given up on EU-UK
>> trade.
>> The paperwork is simply too much for small orders.
>>
>> But we don't have a trade agreement with the US, do we?
>
> Indeed not, but neither of my two acquaintances had or have ambitions
> export to there.

It's become extremely difficult to obtain high quality RF connectors in
the UK at sensible prices and some companies are having to import the
more specialist ones themselves.

I saw the writing on the wall and have enough for my own purposes. For now.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 10/04/2023 21:50, Marland wrote:
>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 19:55:38 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:12:21 +0100
>>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 07:34:50 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> You're deliberatly or otherwise conflating culture and economics. England
>>>>>>>>> shares far more culturally with scotland and wales than it does with the EU
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There isn't as much shared as you might like to think. There are long
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's a lot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> But still not as much as you imply.
>>>>> A look at some Scottish TV productions especially sit coms that may have
>>>>> some humorous element in them shows some of the differences. Whatever the
>>>>> audience is laughing at can appear really strange
>>>>> south of the border.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If your really want a classic example of cultural differences, Irn Bru!
>>>> apparently north of the border it is considered drinkable. (See also
>>>> Buckfast)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Actually I quite like Irn Bru, Back when alchopops were all the rage there
>>> was an alcoholic version
>>> which could be a bit naughty.
>>> IIRC Scotland is one the few places where the local drink still outsells
>>> the well known Cola drinks
>>
>> I recommend S.Luca of Musselburgh’s Irn Bru Sorbet. They deliver, but only
>> to EH postcodes. I don’t think they do a Buckfast variety.

Must put on that on the list of things to do when we next visit the missus
cousin in Leith, I’m delaying that till the trams enter service though he
tells me that they have done a couple of test moves.
>>
>> Sam
>>
>
> You can even dress to drink Irn Bru
>
> https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails?ref=1856
>
> (I’m slightly surprised to find this on a gov.uk domain)
>
> Mind you, it’s a serious business. I was I the Edinburgh IKEA yesterday and
> one of the bedroom displays was done out with kilts and jackets in the
> wardrobe and a dummy in full kilt/sporran/jacket.
>

But have they replaced the Meatballs with Haggis for the full cultural
expericiance?

I’m getting a bit worried as I like Whisky,Irn Bru and Haggis , should I
get a DNA test.

GH

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 10/04/2023 21:50, Marland wrote:
>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 19:55:38 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:12:21 +0100
>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 07:34:50 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> You're deliberatly or otherwise conflating culture and economics. England
>>>>>>>> shares far more culturally with scotland and wales than it does with the EU
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There isn't as much shared as you might like to think. There are long
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's a lot.
>>>>>>
>>>>> But still not as much as you imply.
>>>> A look at some Scottish TV productions especially sit coms that may have
>>>> some humorous element in them shows some of the differences. Whatever the
>>>> audience is laughing at can appear really strange
>>>> south of the border.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If your really want a classic example of cultural differences, Irn Bru!
>>> apparently north of the border it is considered drinkable. (See also
>>> Buckfast)
>>>
>>
>> Actually I quite like Irn Bru, Back when alchopops were all the rage there
>> was an alcoholic version
>> which could be a bit naughty.
>> IIRC Scotland is one the few places where the local drink still outsells
>> the well known Cola drinks
>
> I recommend S.Luca of Musselburgh’s Irn Bru Sorbet. They deliver, but only
> to EH postcodes. I don’t think they do a Buckfast variety.
>
> Sam
>

You can even dress to drink Irn Bru

https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails?ref=1856

(I’m slightly surprised to find this on a gov.uk domain)

Mind you, it’s a serious business. I was I the Edinburgh IKEA yesterday and
one of the bedroom displays was done out with kilts and jackets in the
wardrobe and a dummy in full kilt/sporran/jacket.

In message <t8db3ip3iknkjl9rsebg5d96hdthv6dhja@4ax.com>, at 20:32:11 on
Tue, 11 Apr 2023, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
>On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 11:53:40 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
><ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 08:13:01 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 9 Apr 2023 16:31:51 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>> But our government won’t even countenance the trading block
>>>>>>>>>>idea, thus we remain outside of the EEA.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The EEA is essentially paying to be in the EU but without a
>>>>>>>>>vote on any of the rules. Its the worst of both worlds.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But the brexiteers wanted out of the rule making process….
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, we wanted out of the rules and out of any political control
>>>>>>>by brussels.

>>>>>>> And if a few million east europeans could bugger off too so much
>>>>>>>the better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Weirdly the sense of much of the rhetoric about being rule makers rather
>>>>>> than rule takers (did anyone ever use that rather lame term before the
>>>>>> Brexiteers invented it?) seemed to be that the UK wouldn’t be subject to
>>>>>> the EU’s rules **even when dealing with the EU**. What kind of
>>>>>> exceptionalist British Empire universe did those people think we live in?
>>>>>
>>>>> We trade with the USA, are we bound by their rules?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, of course we are. Whatever trade deals we can make with them are
>>>> negotiated with them (and if you hadn’t noticed they’re much bigger and
>>>> richer than we are so who do you think has the advantage?) and whatever we
>>>> sell to them has to match their regulatory frameworks, not ours.
>>>
>>> Do we actually have a US trade deal? You don't need one to trade.
>>
>>Good point - UK-US trade deals are somewhat hypothetical at the moment
>>(though I did find this which surprised me - I hadn’t realised we’d got
>>that desperate <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61604784>; it also
>>may be relevant to the parallel discussion about differences between US
>>states).
>>
>>The point about selling things into any regulated US market still stands.
>>
>A lot of people who think or have been convinced it is all very simple
>have maybe never done an international transaction above the personal
>import levels

With customs labels either ticked "Gift"/"Sample" or with serious
undervaluations stated.

You can't get away with that kind of thing as a business (unless
apparently you are Chinese company shipping eBay stuff to consumers
in the UK).

>so have missed out on the paperwork and extra transactions involved.

--
Roland Perry

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 10/04/2023 21:50, Marland wrote:
>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 19:55:38 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:12:21 +0100
>>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 07:34:50 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> You're deliberatly or otherwise conflating culture and economics. England
>>>>>>>>> shares far more culturally with scotland and wales than it does with the EU
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There isn't as much shared as you might like to think. There are long
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's a lot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> But still not as much as you imply.
>>>>> A look at some Scottish TV productions especially sit coms that may have
>>>>> some humorous element in them shows some of the differences. Whatever the
>>>>> audience is laughing at can appear really strange
>>>>> south of the border.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If your really want a classic example of cultural differences, Irn Bru!
>>>> apparently north of the border it is considered drinkable. (See also
>>>> Buckfast)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Actually I quite like Irn Bru, Back when alchopops were all the rage there
>>> was an alcoholic version
>>> which could be a bit naughty.
>>> IIRC Scotland is one the few places where the local drink still outsells
>>> the well known Cola drinks
>>
>> I recommend S.Luca of Musselburgh’s Irn Bru Sorbet. They deliver, but only
>> to EH postcodes. I don’t think they do a Buckfast variety.
>>
>> Sam
>>
>
> You can even dress to drink Irn Bru
>
> https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails?ref=1856
>
> (I’m slightly surprised to find this on a gov.uk domain)

Important regulatory function, ken? Should be in a gov.scot domain, of
course…

> Mind you, it’s a serious business. I was I the Edinburgh IKEA yesterday and
> one of the bedroom displays was done out with kilts and jackets in the
> wardrobe and a dummy in full kilt/sporran/jacket.

I haven’t been to IKEA in a while. I’m not sure whether this might attract
me or not…

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 12:37:29 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/04/2023 21:50, Marland wrote:
>>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 19:55:38 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:12:21 +0100
>>>>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 07:34:50 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> You're deliberatly or otherwise conflating culture and economics. England
>>>>>>>>>>> shares far more culturally with scotland and wales than it does with the EU
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There isn't as much shared as you might like to think. There are long
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There's a lot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But still not as much as you imply.
>>>>>>> A look at some Scottish TV productions especially sit coms that may have
>>>>>>> some humorous element in them shows some of the differences. Whatever the
>>>>>>> audience is laughing at can appear really strange
>>>>>>> south of the border.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If your really want a classic example of cultural differences, Irn Bru!
>>>>>> apparently north of the border it is considered drinkable. (See also
>>>>>> Buckfast)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually I quite like Irn Bru, Back when alchopops were all the rage there
>>>>> was an alcoholic version
>>>>> which could be a bit naughty.
>>>>> IIRC Scotland is one the few places where the local drink still outsells
>>>>> the well known Cola drinks
>>>>
>>>> I recommend S.Luca of Musselburgh’s Irn Bru Sorbet. They deliver, but only
>>>> to EH postcodes. I don’t think they do a Buckfast variety.
>>
>> Must put on that on the list of things to do when we next visit the missus
>> cousin in Leith, I’m delaying that till the trams enter service though he
>> tells me that they have done a couple of test moves.
>
>Trams to Musselburgh! (“Trams to Newhaven” is the current slogan.) Yes,
>the sorbet is well worth sampling, and yes there have been trams on Leith
>Walk, but very low key so far, I think.

Yes, I've read that there have been test runs over the full new route, initially with no passengers.

On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 20:22:59 +0100
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 11/04/2023 18:49, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 13:12:51 +0100
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> The spanish went south and last time I looked france was in northern
>europe.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You've never heard of New Orleans then?
>>
>> Um, french, yes? Not spanish.
>>
>>
>
>See Texas and California. The former was part of Greater Mexico before
>Davy Crocket and his pals stayed at the Alamo B&B.

New Orleans is in Louisiana. And as you say, Texas didn't stay spanish for
long.