In message <u9m7is$nf2d$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:06:47 on Mon, 24 Jul
2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>On 24/07/2023 16:10, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <mbrsbihspnenggbdtkm4ll2kqtu0cqdagq@4ax.com>, at 13:25:45
>>on Mon, 24 Jul 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:08:09 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
>>><noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-o
>>>> n-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321
>>>> 741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>
>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>
>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>
>>> I'd have thought they got priv tickets?
>> Whether they do not, I'm pretty sure Network Rail is paying, not the
>>Execs.
>>
>>> Maybe they use the plane because it's much faster and more reliable?
>> One of the most egregious wastes of money would be to pay an exec to
>>twiddle their thumbs on a long distance train, when flying would take
>>half the time, and even allow a day trip rather than two days out of
>>their diary.
>
>We are back to the old argument as to whether it is quicker to travel
>between fixed points by rail or air.

Gatwick to Glasgow, about half the time.

>You need to take into account the additional time getting to and from
>airports from and city centres,

Or the additional time getting to and from Euston.

>these days 'executives' need not be'twiddling their fingers' most now
>can make pnone calls and use the internet on the train which is not
>always possible in a plane.

Not every job is conducive to being done over the phone, and there are
confidentiality matters. "Internet on the train" is one of those ongoing
myths. Wifi is broken, and GSM has sufficient not-spots, that
extrapolating from armchair observers who only catch trains in big
cities can lead one astray.

>This is before considering that using the rail method they may actually
>learn something about what passengers experience on a daily basis

Perhaps they can experience that sufficiently on a commute to work, or
maybe 50 trips a year (that's one a week).

>plus the train is 'greener, we are told.

If you don't take everything into account. If going by train means you
need to employ twice as many people, because of all the non-productive
time, the answer would be different.
--
Roland Perry

In message <u9ovgc$15npg$3@dont-email.me>, at 19:07:24 on Tue, 25 Jul
2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>On 25.07.23 07:07, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <u9mfj6$omu5$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:23:31 on Mon, 24 Jul
>>2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-wee
>>>>>>> k-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435
>>>>>>> 715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to
>>>>>>>Glasgow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page
>>>>>>full of scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a
>>>>>>comment on drinking habits?  I though most means of transport
>>>>>>were considerably less generous in that area these days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sm
>>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>>
>>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>>
>>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>>
>>>>  Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped
>>>>seating and  a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some
>>>>anti social  specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive
>>>>unless you are very  lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham
>>>>Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40  minutes in the air and the seats are comfortable.
>>>>
>>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring
>>>to travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!

>> This is the "must use your own product" fallacy. Assembly line
>>workers at Rolls Royce would be a bit embarrassed it that was all
>>they were allowed to drive to work
>
>I doubt many assembly line workers at Rolls Royce own their own jet
>aircraft, nuclear submarines, or fast ferries.

I didn't think Rolls Royce made any of those finished products.
--
Roland Perry

In message <u9ovcj$15sd4$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:05:23 on Tue, 25 Jul
2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <u9o65p$1369u$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:55:05 on Tue, 25 Jul
>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-wee
>>>>>>> k-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435
>>>>>>> 715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page full of
>>>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>>>> drinking habits? I though most means of transport were considerably less
>>>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sm
>>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>>
>>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>>
>>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>>
>>>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped
>>>> seating and a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some
>>>> anti social specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive
>>>> unless you are very lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham
>>>> Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40 minutes in the air and the seats are
>>>> comfortable.
>>>>
>>> It might be 40 minutes in the air but it's much longer when you have to
>>> include early checkin and travel to and from the airport.
>>
>> <Yawn> Domestic flights don't require you to be at regional airports
>> more than 45 minutes ahead - and obviously you'd have no checked
>> baggage.
>>
>> An airport like Edinburgh or Glasgow isn't necessarily any more
>> lengthy to get to from a typical client site than the railway
>> stations, especially by taxi.
>
>And despite all the comments about airports, I find waiting in them more
>pleasant than waiting around in railway stations.

Depends a bit on the station. Kings Cross and Paddington are OK places
to wait. Soham and Wakefield Kirkgate, not so much.
--
Roland Perry

On 26.07.23 08:52, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <u9ovgc$15npg$3@dont-email.me>, at 19:07:24 on Tue, 25 Jul
> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>> On 25.07.23 07:07, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <u9mfj6$omu5$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:23:31 on Mon, 24 Jul
>>> 2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-wee
>>>>>>>> k-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435
>>>>>>>> 715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel
>>>>>>>> mainly on
>>>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to
>>>>>>>> Glasgow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page
>>>>>>> full of  scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a
>>>>>>> comment on  drinking habits?  I though most means of transport
>>>>>>> were  considerably less  generous in that area these days.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related
>>>>>> but you
>>>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>  Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped
>>>>> seating and  a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some
>>>>> anti social  specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive
>>>>> unless you are very  lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham
>>>>> Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40  minutes in the air and the seats are
>>>>> comfortable.
>>>>>
>>>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring
>>>> to travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!
>
>>>  This is the "must use your own product" fallacy. Assembly line
>>> workers  at Rolls Royce would be a bit embarrassed it that was all
>>> they were  allowed to drive to work
>>
>> I doubt many assembly line workers at Rolls Royce own their own jet
>> aircraft, nuclear submarines, or fast ferries.
>
> I didn't think Rolls Royce made any of those finished products.

These are the uses to which Rolls Royce products are put. If you are
goign to make use of a Rolls Royce product, it will be as the propulsion
system in one of these types of vehcile.

Robin

In message <u9qhcv$1e7mp$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:18:55 on Wed, 26 Jul
2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>On 26.07.23 08:52, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <u9ovgc$15npg$3@dont-email.me>, at 19:07:24 on Tue, 25 Jul
>>2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>> On 25.07.23 07:07, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <u9mfj6$omu5$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:23:31 on Mon, 24
>>>>Jul 2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>remarked:
>>>>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-wee
>>>>>>>>> k-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435
>>>>>>>>> 715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel
>>>>>>>>>mainly on routes where they could have taken the train, e.g
>>>>>>>>>Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page
>>>>>>>>full of  scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a
>>>>>>>>comment on  drinking habits?  I though most means of transport
>>>>>>>>were  considerably less  generous in that area these days.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related
>>>>>>>but you
>>>>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped
>>>>>>seating and  a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with
>>>>>>some anti social  specimens. First class travel is extremely
>>>>>>expensive unless you are very  lucky with Advance tickets. The
>>>>>>Birmingham Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40  minutes in the air and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs
>>>>>preferring to travel by air rather than the product of the
>>>>>industry they run!
>>
>>>>  This is the "must use your own product" fallacy. Assembly line
>>>>workers  at Rolls Royce would be a bit embarrassed it that was all
>>>>they were  allowed to drive to work
>>>
>>> I doubt many assembly line workers at Rolls Royce own their own jet
>>>aircraft, nuclear submarines, or fast ferries.

>> I didn't think Rolls Royce made any of those finished products.
>
>These are the uses to which Rolls Royce products are put. If you are
>goign to make use of a Rolls Royce product, it will be as the
>propulsion system in one of these types of vehcile.

People can't commute to work on a propulsion component, rather than a
finished product.
--
Roland Perry

On 26.07.23 09:30, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <u9qhcv$1e7mp$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:18:55 on Wed, 26 Jul
> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>> On 26.07.23 08:52, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <u9ovgc$15npg$3@dont-email.me>, at 19:07:24 on Tue, 25 Jul
>>> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>> On 25.07.23 07:07, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <u9mfj6$omu5$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:23:31 on Mon, 24
>>>>> Jul  2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-wee
>>>>>>>>>> k-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435
>>>>>>>>>> 715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel
>>>>>>>>>> mainly on  routes where they could have taken the train, e.g
>>>>>>>>>> Birmingham to  Glasgow.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page
>>>>>>>>> full of  scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a
>>>>>>>>> comment on  drinking habits?  I though most means of transport
>>>>>>>>> were  considerably less  generous in that area these days.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related
>>>>>>>> but you
>>>>>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped
>>>>>>> seating and  a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with
>>>>>>> some  anti social  specimens. First class travel is extremely
>>>>>>> expensive  unless you are very  lucky with Advance tickets. The
>>>>>>> Birmingham  Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40  minutes in the air and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs
>>>>>> preferring  to travel by air rather than the product of the
>>>>>> industry they run!
>>>
>>>>>  This is the "must use your own product" fallacy. Assembly line
>>>>> workers  at Rolls Royce would be a bit embarrassed it that was all
>>>>> they were  allowed to drive to work
>>>>
>>>> I doubt many assembly line workers at Rolls Royce own their own jet
>>>> aircraft, nuclear submarines, or fast ferries.
>
>>>  I didn't think Rolls Royce made any of those finished products.
>>
>> These are the uses to which Rolls Royce products are put. If you are
>> goign to make use of a Rolls Royce product, it will be as the
>> propulsion system in one of these types of vehcile.
>
> People can't commute to work on a propulsion component, rather than a
> finished product.

The statement was "must use your own product" not "must use only your
own product". Ford doesn't make car tyres. I can't drive a Ford car
without also using tyres made by someone else in order for it to work.

Robin

On 26/07/2023 09:01, Bob wrote:
> On 26.07.23 09:30, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <u9qhcv$1e7mp$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:18:55 on Wed, 26 Jul
>> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>> On 26.07.23 08:52, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <u9ovgc$15npg$3@dont-email.me>, at 19:07:24 on Tue, 25
>>>> Jul 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>> On 25.07.23 07:07, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <u9mfj6$omu5$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:23:31 on Mon, 24
>>>>>> Jul  2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-wee
>>>>>>>>>>> k-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435
>>>>>>>>>>> 715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel
>>>>>>>>>>> mainly on  routes where they could have taken the train, e.g
>>>>>>>>>>> Birmingham to  Glasgow.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free
>>>>>>>>>> page full of  scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a
>>>>>>>>>> comment on  drinking habits?  I though most means of transport
>>>>>>>>>> were  considerably less  generous in that area these days.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related
>>>>>>>>> but you
>>>>>>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped
>>>>>>>> seating and  a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with
>>>>>>>> some  anti social  specimens. First class travel is extremely
>>>>>>>> expensive  unless you are very  lucky with Advance tickets. The
>>>>>>>> Birmingham  Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40  minutes in the air and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs
>>>>>>> preferring  to travel by air rather than the product of the
>>>>>>> industry they run!
>>>>
>>>>>>  This is the "must use your own product" fallacy. Assembly line
>>>>>> workers  at Rolls Royce would be a bit embarrassed it that was all
>>>>>> they were  allowed to drive to work
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt many assembly line workers at Rolls Royce own their own jet
>>>>> aircraft, nuclear submarines, or fast ferries.
>>
>>>>  I didn't think Rolls Royce made any of those finished products.
>>>
>>> These are the uses to which Rolls Royce products are put. If you are
>>> goign to make use of a Rolls Royce product, it will be as the
>>> propulsion system in one of these types of vehcile.
>>
>> People can't commute to work on a propulsion component, rather than a
>> finished product.
>
> The statement was "must use your own product" not "must use only your
> own product". Ford doesn't make car tyres. I can't drive a Ford car
> without also using tyres made by someone else in order for it to work.
>

This whole thread is based on a standard piece of knocking copy, short
on facts, long on innuendo, misuse of statistics and appeals to the
politics of envy.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 18:05:27 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
> <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 24/07/2023 18:04, Scott wrote:
>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 17:57:05 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
>>> <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:44, Scott wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 17:23:16 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
>>>>> <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:19, Scott wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 16:12:41 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 17:06:47 +0100
>>>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 16:10, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <mbrsbihspnenggbdtkm4ll2kqtu0cqdagq@4ax.com>, at 13:25:45 on
>>>>>>>>>> Mon, 24 Jul 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:08:09 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
>>>>>>>>>>> <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-o
>>>>>>>>>>>> n-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321
>>>>>>>>>>>> 741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>>>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd have thought they got priv tickets?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whether they do not, I'm pretty sure Network Rail is paying, not the Execs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe they use the plane because it's much faster and more reliable?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One of the most egregious wastes of money would be to pay an exec to
>>>>>>>>>> twiddle their thumbs on a long distance train, when flying would take
>>>>>>>>>> half the time, and even allow a day trip rather than two days out of
>>>>>>>>>> their diary.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We are back to the old argument as to whether it is quicker to travel
>>>>>>>>> between fixed points by rail or air. You need to take into account the
>>>>>>>>> additional time getting to and from airports from and city centres,
>>>>>>>>> these days 'executives' need not be'twiddling their fingers' most now
>>>>>>>>> can make pnone calls and use the internet on the train which is not
>>>>>>>>> always possible in a plane.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These days the enviromental cost matters too and the plane fails miserably
>>>>>>>> on that count.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What about reputational risk if the BBC decides to make a documentary
>>>>>>> about Network Rail's air miles?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do Notwork Rail have much reputation left to protect?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I am quite impressed with them.
>>>>
>>>> You must be easily impressed, most rail users think they are pants!
>>>
>>> I remember BR the 1960s when everything was run down and half the
>>> network was either closed or about to close.
>>
>> Much like today then LOL
>
> My recollection is of 'Withdrawal of Railway Passenger Services'
> notices all over the place, moratorium on maintenance and a general
> run down feel.
>

And if something got repainted, you knew it was going to close soon! 🤣
ROTFL

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 25/07/2023 10:52, Coffee wrote:
> They could do one about our UK Prime Minister's air miles at part two.

Perhaps just trying to catch up with the Edinburgh Assembly's Angus
Robertson who seems to knock up a huge amount of air miles even though
no foreign responsibilities.

On 26/07/2023 09:39, MB wrote:
> On 25/07/2023 10:52, Coffee wrote:
>> They could do one about our UK Prime Minister's air miles at part two.
>
> Perhaps just trying to catch up with the Edinburgh Assembly's Angus
> Robertson who seems to knock up a huge amount of air miles even though
> no foreign responsibilities.

Many parts of Scotland are so remote that a plane is the only feasible
way to get home for the weekend, though much of Robertson's Edinburgh
Central constituency is within walking distance of Holyrood.

BTW, they prefer to think of themselves as a parliament rather than a
mere assembly.

On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 09:04:58 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 26/07/2023 09:01, Bob wrote:
>> On 26.07.23 09:30, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <u9qhcv$1e7mp$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:18:55 on Wed, 26 Jul
>>> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>> On 26.07.23 08:52, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <u9ovgc$15npg$3@dont-email.me>, at 19:07:24 on Tue, 25
>>>>> Jul 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On 25.07.23 07:07, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <u9mfj6$omu5$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:23:31 on Mon, 24
>>>>>>> Jul  2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-wee
>>>>>>>>>>>> k-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435
>>>>>>>>>>>> 715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel
>>>>>>>>>>>> mainly on  routes where they could have taken the train, e.g
>>>>>>>>>>>> Birmingham to  Glasgow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free
>>>>>>>>>>> page full of  scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a
>>>>>>>>>>> comment on  drinking habits?  I though most means of transport
>>>>>>>>>>> were  considerably less  generous in that area these days.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sm
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related
>>>>>>>>>> but you
>>>>>>>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped
>>>>>>>>> seating and  a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with
>>>>>>>>> some  anti social  specimens. First class travel is extremely
>>>>>>>>> expensive  unless you are very  lucky with Advance tickets. The
>>>>>>>>> Birmingham  Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40  minutes in the air and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs
>>>>>>>> preferring  to travel by air rather than the product of the
>>>>>>>> industry they run!
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  This is the "must use your own product" fallacy. Assembly line
>>>>>>> workers  at Rolls Royce would be a bit embarrassed it that was all
>>>>>>> they were  allowed to drive to work
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I doubt many assembly line workers at Rolls Royce own their own jet
>>>>>> aircraft, nuclear submarines, or fast ferries.
>>>
>>>>>  I didn't think Rolls Royce made any of those finished products.
>>>>
>>>> These are the uses to which Rolls Royce products are put. If you are
>>>> goign to make use of a Rolls Royce product, it will be as the
>>>> propulsion system in one of these types of vehcile.
>>>
>>> People can't commute to work on a propulsion component, rather than a
>>> finished product.
>>
>> The statement was "must use your own product" not "must use only your
>> own product". Ford doesn't make car tyres. I can't drive a Ford car
>> without also using tyres made by someone else in order for it to work.
>>
>
>This whole thread is based on a standard piece of knocking copy, short
>on facts, long on innuendo, misuse of statistics and appeals to the
>politics of envy.

Very true!

In message <u9qjtm$1efnr$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:01:58 on Wed, 26 Jul
2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>On 26.07.23 09:30, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <u9qhcv$1e7mp$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:18:55 on Wed, 26 Jul
>>2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>> On 26.07.23 08:52, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <u9ovgc$15npg$3@dont-email.me>, at 19:07:24 on Tue, 25
>>>>Jul 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>>>>> On 25.07.23 07:07, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <u9mfj6$omu5$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:23:31 on Mon, 24
>>>>>>Jul  2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-wee
>>>>>>>>>>> k-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435
>>>>>>>>>>> 715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel
>>>>>>>>>>>mainly on  routes where they could have taken the train, e.g
>>>>>>>>>>>Birmingham to  Glasgow.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free
>>>>>>>>>>page full of  scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a
>>>>>>>>>>comment on  drinking habits?  I though most means of transport
>>>>>>>>>>were  considerably less  generous in that area these days.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail
>>>>>>>>>related but you can't please 'em all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped
>>>>>>>>seating and  a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with
>>>>>>>>some  anti social  specimens. First class travel is extremely
>>>>>>>>expensive  unless you are very  lucky with Advance tickets. The
>>>>>>>>Birmingham  Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40  minutes in the air and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs
>>>>>>>preferring  to travel by air rather than the product of the
>>>>>>>industry they run!
>>>>
>>>>>>  This is the "must use your own product" fallacy. Assembly line
>>>>>>workers  at Rolls Royce would be a bit embarrassed it that was all
>>>>>>they were  allowed to drive to work
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt many assembly line workers at Rolls Royce own their own
>>>>>jet aircraft, nuclear submarines, or fast ferries.
>>
>>>>  I didn't think Rolls Royce made any of those finished products.
>>>
>>> These are the uses to which Rolls Royce products are put. If you are
>>>goign to make use of a Rolls Royce product, it will be as the
>>>propulsion system in one of these types of vehcile.

>> People can't commute to work on a propulsion component, rather than
>>a finished product.
>
>The statement was "must use your own product" not "must use only your
>own product".

The statement is clearly not an indication that consumption of one's own
product is compulsory, otherwise what would someone working for Ford who
didn't have a driving licence do?

>Ford doesn't make car tyres. I can't drive a Ford car without also
>using tyres made by someone else in order for it to work.

Irrelevant. And in any event the context is the reputational damage of
using something other than one's own product, when ones own product is
perceived by outsiders to be suitable.

What I've been arguing is that rail travel is *not* always suitable for
Network Rail execs, just as banning train drivers from using buses or
taxis is absurd.
--
Roland Perry

In message <u9qq3p$1f2fg$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:47:37 on Wed, 26 Jul
2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>On 26/07/2023 09:39, MB wrote:
>> On 25/07/2023 10:52, Coffee wrote:
>>> They could do one about our UK Prime Minister's air miles at part two.
>> Perhaps just trying to catch up with the Edinburgh Assembly's Angus
>>Robertson who seems to knock up a huge amount of air miles even though
>>no foreign responsibilities.
>
>Many parts of Scotland are so remote that a plane is the only feasible
>way to get home for the weekend, though much of Robertson's Edinburgh
>Central constituency is within walking distance of Holyrood.

After the 2015 general election I spoke to some newly elected SNP MPs,
partly because I was genuinely interested in whether they'd consider
using the train, but also because they had been reported as flying to
London in a group to take up their seats.

Which most commercial organisations would regard as reckless from a
business continuity point of view.

<https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/all-
56-newly-elected-snp-politicians-to-fly-together-to-westminster-to-show-
cameron-they-are-principle-opposition-10239984.html>

They confided they'd subsequently tried taking the train, but given up,
partly because they were so unreliable, but also as weekly commuters it
was simply taking up too much of their time.

>BTW, they prefer to think of themselves as a parliament rather than a
>mere assembly.
>

--
Roland Perry

Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>
>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>
>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>
>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page full of
>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>
>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>> drinking habits? I though most means of transport were considerably less
>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>
>>>> Sm
>>>>
>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>
>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>
>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>
>>
>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped seating and
>> a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some anti social
>> specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive unless you are very
>> lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40
>> minutes in the air and the seats are comfortable.
>>
> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring to
> travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!

Some might say that they’re choosing the most appropriate form of transport
for the task in hand. No one pretends that rail is the right transport for
any conceivable trip. I’d prefer it if it was, but there you go (or
don’t).

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 26/07/2023 11:33, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>
>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page full of
>>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>>> drinking habits? I though most means of transport were considerably less
>>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sm
>>>>>
>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>
>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>
>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped seating and
>>> a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some anti social
>>> specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive unless you are very
>>> lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40
>>> minutes in the air and the seats are comfortable.
>>>
>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring to
>> travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!
>
> Some might say that they’re choosing the most appropriate form of transport
> for the task in hand. No one pretends that rail is the right transport for
> any conceivable trip. I’d prefer it if it was, but there you go (or
> don’t).
>
> Sam

The article does not say NR execs should never go by air, the story
highlighted the fact they are spending over £10,000 a week on air travel
on internal flights.

On 26/07/2023 10:47, Certes wrote:
> On 26/07/2023 09:39, MB wrote:
>> On 25/07/2023 10:52, Coffee wrote:
>>> They could do one about our UK Prime Minister's air miles at part two.
>>
>> Perhaps just trying to catch up with the Edinburgh Assembly's Angus
>> Robertson who seems to knock up a huge amount of air miles even though
>> no foreign responsibilities.
>
> Many parts of Scotland are so remote that a plane is the only feasible
> way to get home for the weekend, though much of Robertson's Edinburgh
> Central constituency is within walking distance of Holyrood.
>

True! My local MSP does some 23,000 air miles per year (assumes 40 weeks
of sessions, 40 x 290miles x return) just to attend Holyrood, plus car
and a ferry (plus whatever is used in Edinburgh, taxi, tram, bus etc)
each way.

--
Colin

On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 12:33:48 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On 26/07/2023 11:33, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page full of
>>>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>>>> drinking habits? I though most means of transport were considerably less
>>>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sm
>>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>>
>>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>>
>>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped seating and
>>>> a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some anti social
>>>> specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive unless you are very
>>>> lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40
>>>> minutes in the air and the seats are comfortable.
>>>>
>>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring to
>>> travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!
>>
>> Some might say that they’re choosing the most appropriate form of transport
>> for the task in hand. No one pretends that rail is the right transport for
>> any conceivable trip. I’d prefer it if it was, but there you go (or
>> don’t).
>>
>> Sam
>
>The article does not say NR execs should never go by air, the story
>highlighted the fact they are spending over £10,000 a week on air travel
>on internal flights.
>

The article mentions Michelle Handforth, without explaining why she flies so much: she became NR's Regional Managing
Director Wales & Western in July 2021, but was previously CEO at Aberdeen Harbour Board, and before that, MD Babcock UK
Offshore Helicopters, Aberdeen.

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/network-rail-michelle-handforth-appointed-managing-director-of-wales-western

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/transport/2940931/aberdeen-harbour-board-boss-michelle-handforth-quitting-for-new-role-with-network-rail/

As such she remained Aberdeen-based, while working in Wales. No doubt this arrangement was agreed as part of her
recruitment package. She accounted for 35 of the 985 internal flight tickets, costing almost £8k (so, about £220 each).

The original article was in the Sun, which submitted the FoI request; all the other press reports are just quoting from
that Sun article, in some cases, incorrectly:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/23143869/network-rail-bosses-rack-up-thousands-flight-costs-trips/

[Needless to say, that's an inappropriate stock photo of a BA B777, which doesn't do any UK internal flights.]

The original article say, "NETWORK Rail staff spent £10,000 a week on flight tickets last year — including many trips
within the UK." In other words, that headline £10k figure included the 1,622 (more expensive) international flights as
well as 985 air tickets for domestic journeys.

So, when you seek out the original article, and do a bit more research, the story isn't nearly as shocking as the press
reports suggest. Who'd have thunk it?

In message <u9qsqe$1fgv4$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:50 on Wed, 26 Jul
2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-we
>>>>>>ek-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af4
>>>>>>35715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>
>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page full of
>>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>>> drinking habits? I though most means of transport were considerably less
>>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sm
>>>>>
>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>
>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>
>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped seating and
>>> a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some anti social
>>> specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive unless you are very
>>> lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40
>>> minutes in the air and the seats are comfortable.
>>>
>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring to
>> travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!
>
>Some might say that they’re choosing the most appropriate form of transport
>for the task in hand. No one pretends that rail is the right transport for
>any conceivable trip.

I've used the example of fettling ticket machines on a line with 1tph.

So the guy catches a train to the first station (with a trolley full of
all the gear he needs), does the work, then sits there 50 minutes
waiting for a train to take him to the next station (I'm also assuming
all trains are all-shacks). And towards the end of his shift he has to
get a train back to the depot he set off from.

Presumably, for lunch and PNBs he has to bring sandwiches and use the
facilities (assuming the train has any working ones) on the short trip
between stations.

At a push, he might do six stations a day. Give him a van, and he'd be
able to do three times as many. But there would be the ignominy of
driving round in a van with <TOC name> painted on the side.

>I’d prefer it if it was, but there you go (or don’t).

--
Roland Perry

In message <u9r0av$1fqd8$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:33:48 on Wed, 26 Jul
2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:

>The article does not say NR execs should never go by air, the story
>highlighted the fact they are spending over £10,000 a week on air
>travel on internal flights.

And how much would the extra salaries be (for hiring twice as many of
them) if they spent half their working day sat on trains instead, unable
to do their site inspections or whatever over the broken wifi on the
train.

NB: Broken wifi is a TOC problem, not Network Rail.
--
Roland Perry

On 26/07/2023 14:18, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <u9r0av$1fqd8$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:33:48 on Wed, 26 Jul
> 2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>
>> The article does not say NR execs should never go by air, the story
>> highlighted the fact they are spending over £10,000 a week on air
>> travel on internal flights.
>
> And how much would the extra salaries be (for hiring twice as many of
> them) if they spent half their working day sat on trains instead, unable
> to do their site inspections or whatever over the broken wifi on the train.
>
Twice as many staff? That's a far fetched assumption, Notwork Rail are
responsible for the track network and they could be collecting
information on track conditions as they travel, they won't be able to do
that on an aircraft.

> NB: Broken wifi is a TOC problem, not Network Rail.

On 26/07/2023 14:30, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
> On 26/07/2023 14:18, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <u9r0av$1fqd8$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:33:48 on Wed, 26 Jul
>> 2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>> The article does not say NR execs should never go by air, the story
>>> highlighted the fact they are spending over £10,000 a week on air
>>> travel on internal flights.
>>
>> And how much would the extra salaries be (for hiring twice as many of
>> them) if they spent half their working day sat on trains instead,
>> unable to do their site inspections or whatever over the broken wifi
>> on the train.
>>
> Twice as many staff? That's a far fetched assumption, Notwork Rail are
> responsible for the track network and they could be collecting
> information on track conditions as they travel, they won't be able to do
> that on an aircraft.

What information on track conditions are they likely to get that is not
better and more accurately gathered by specialist recording equipment
already in use?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 26/07/2023 14:34, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 26/07/2023 14:30, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
>> On 26/07/2023 14:18, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <u9r0av$1fqd8$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:33:48 on Wed, 26 Jul
>>> 2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>> The article does not say NR execs should never go by air, the story
>>>> highlighted the fact they are spending over £10,000 a week on air
>>>> travel on internal flights.
>>>
>>> And how much would the extra salaries be (for hiring twice as many of
>>> them) if they spent half their working day sat on trains instead,
>>> unable to do their site inspections or whatever over the broken wifi
>>> on the train.
>>>
>> Twice as many staff? That's a far fetched assumption, Notwork Rail are
>> responsible for the track network and they could be collecting
>> information on track conditions as they travel, they won't be able to
>> do that on an aircraft.
>
> What information on track conditions are they likely to get that is not
> better and more accurately gathered by specialist recording equipment
> already in use?
>
They would at least get the same (sometimes very poor) general ride
experience that passengers get whilst at the same time being able to
prepare for whatever meeting they are going to.

I doubt if the economic argument of cheaper flights works out in reality
as they may well have a rail pass anyway.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <u9qsqe$1fgv4$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:50 on Wed, 26 Jul
> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-we
>>>>>>> ek-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af4
>>>>>>> 35715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page full of
>>>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>>>> drinking habits? I though most means of transport were considerably less
>>>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sm
>>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>>
>>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>>
>>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped seating and
>>>> a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some anti social
>>>> specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive unless you are very
>>>> lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40
>>>> minutes in the air and the seats are comfortable.
>>>>
>>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring to
>>> travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!
>>
>> Some might say that they’re choosing the most appropriate form of transport
>> for the task in hand. No one pretends that rail is the right transport for
>> any conceivable trip.
>
> I've used the example of fettling ticket machines on a line with 1tph.
>
> So the guy catches a train to the first station (with a trolley full of
> all the gear he needs), does the work, then sits there 50 minutes
> waiting for a train to take him to the next station (I'm also assuming
> all trains are all-shacks). And towards the end of his shift he has to
> get a train back to the depot he set off from.
>
> Presumably, for lunch and PNBs he has to bring sandwiches and use the
> facilities (assuming the train has any working ones) on the short trip
> between stations.
>
> At a push, he might do six stations a day. Give him a van, and he'd be
> able to do three times as many. But there would be the ignominy of
> driving round in a van with <TOC name> painted on the side.

Conceivably there might be a pattern where shuttling backwards and forwards
might make his journey more efficient, but I agree with your point
completely. Similarly one wouldn’t expect CRT[1] maintenance staff to do
all their work from a single narrow boat.

Sam

[1] The wet kind, not the sparky kind.

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 26/07/2023 11:33, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 24/07/2023 19:05, Tweed wrote:
>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 24/07/2023 17:48, Sam Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/rail-bosses-spend-10-000-a-week-on-flights-because-it-s-cheaper-than-trains/ar-AA1eguGE?cvid=af435715321741b0c7c5fc006593d853&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=28
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Network rail executives spend £10000 a week on plane travel mainly on
>>>>>>> routes where they could have taken the train, e.g Birmingham to Glasgow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You couldn't make it up!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That link takes me to a completely (relevant) content free page full of
>>>>>> scream headlines and adverts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW is there a C missing from the subject line or is this a comment on
>>>>>> drinking habits? I though most means of transport were considerably less
>>>>>> generous in that area these days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sm
>>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate the humour Sam.
>>>>>
>>>>> The link works as intended just now.
>>>>>
>>>>> The SOT was to acknowledge the post was indirectly rail related but you
>>>>> can't please 'em all.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Standard class travel on a long journey is miserable - cramped seating and
>>>> a fairly high chance of sharing your journey with some anti social
>>>> specimens. First class travel is extremely expensive unless you are very
>>>> lucky with Advance tickets. The Birmingham Glasgow EasyJet flight is 40
>>>> minutes in the air and the seats are comfortable.
>>>>
>>> Agreed, but most will see the irony in Notwork Rail execs preferring to
>>> travel by air rather than the product of the industry they run!
>>
>> Some might say that they’re choosing the most appropriate form of transport
>> for the task in hand. No one pretends that rail is the right transport for
>> any conceivable trip. I’d prefer it if it was, but there you go (or
>> don’t).
>>
>> Sam
>
> The article does not say NR execs should never go by air, the story
> highlighted the fact they are spending over £10,000 a week on air travel
> on internal flights.

Except that that's not what it says. The £10k figure covered 985 domestic
journeys and 1,622 international trips. So probably most of the cost was
for the (more expensive) foreign trips. And many of those would have been
NR Consultanting meeting clients, or NR meeting suppliers.

So that headline '£10k for internal flights' is bunkum. It's probably
closer to £1k pw spent on internal flights.

On 26/07/2023 14:44, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
> On 26/07/2023 14:34, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 26/07/2023 14:30, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
>>> On 26/07/2023 14:18, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <u9r0av$1fqd8$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:33:48 on Wed, 26
>>>> Jul 2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> The article does not say NR execs should never go by air, the story
>>>>> highlighted the fact they are spending over £10,000 a week on air
>>>>> travel on internal flights.
>>>>
>>>> And how much would the extra salaries be (for hiring twice as many
>>>> of them) if they spent half their working day sat on trains instead,
>>>> unable to do their site inspections or whatever over the broken wifi
>>>> on the train.
>>>>
>>> Twice as many staff? That's a far fetched assumption, Notwork Rail
>>> are responsible for the track network and they could be collecting
>>> information on track conditions as they travel, they won't be able to
>>> do that on an aircraft.
>>
>> What information on track conditions are they likely to get that is
>> not better and more accurately gathered by specialist recording
>> equipment already in use?
>>
> They would at least get the same (sometimes very poor) general ride
> experience that passengers get whilst at the same time being able to
> prepare for whatever meeting they are going to.

And that helps how?

>
> I doubt if the economic argument of cheaper flights works out in reality
> as they may well have a rail pass anyway.

Supposition based on prejusdice.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.