On 07-Dec-21 23:31, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> In article <QqPrJ.555827$XOa8.129386@fx08.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
> <not@home.com> on Tue, 7 Dec 2021 at 20:25:19 awoke Nicholas from his
> slumbers and wrote
>>
>>> Wood pellets are more efficient than most wood burners which may
>>> help and they might come down the Shannon by boat (I don't know), but yeah
>>> they're probably not carbon neutral overall. The bottom line as far as I'm
>>> concerned is that they're the cheapest form of heating available and a big
>>> improvement over burning fossil fuels in every respect.
>>
>> Wood pellets _are_ fossil fuels, just very very unripe.
>>
>>
> On Sunday my brother sent me a URL that gave me a certain nostalgic
> feeling and a certain frisson. Reminded me of why my father always said
> he did not want his sons down the mine. I needed no encouragement to
> look elsewhere for a career. OTH my brother was quite intent on becoming
> an engineer. He made a good living out of, latterly as a consultant.
>
> https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-the-cumberland-story-
> 1947-online?play-film
>
> It is good to be reminded just how dangerous, dirty and degrading coal
> mining was. Particularly when working in unmechanised two foot seams.

My father spent his career moving & maintaining those conveyor belts.
>
> Wood pellets might be preferable.
>
> One night my father came home very late, somewhat tired and emotional,
> with an emphasis on emotional. He said that a piece of dirt had fallen
> on a man. I, in my ignorance said, 'Oh well it was only a piece of
> dirt'. His response 'This piece of dirt, weighed about 10 tons'.
>
> Wood pellets might be preferable.
>

At our village, it was 90-odd men who didn't get to go home. Fire
underground.

--
Sam Plusnet

Sam Plusnet said:
> On 07-Dec-21 12:44, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
>> Wood pellets are more efficient than most wood burners which may
>> help and they might come down the Shannon by boat (I don't know), but yeah
>> they're probably not carbon neutral overall. The bottom line as far as I'm
>> concerned is that they're the cheapest form of heating available and a big
>> improvement over burning fossil fuels in every respect.
>
> Wood pellets _are_ fossil fuels, just very very unripe.

*grin*

I've burnt peat from time to time. Once in a while I get told off for
disturbing The Environment. To which I reply "True, but it'll grow back
a lot faster than the coal I'd burn otherwise".

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

Sam Plusnet said:
> On 06-Dec-21 13:19, Mike Fleming wrote:
>>
>> I'm not quite sure how much more clearly I can make this point - this is
>> not a frequent event. To make a significant decision based on a single
>> atypical event is stupid. I also wonder how she proposes to replace
>> electricity for other things it may be used for, like the central
>> heating pump.

Other things ? I thought the point was that her central heating doesn't
work in a power cut, isn't that what we're talking about ?

> Not a frequent event, but if _you_ are the one without power for several
> days that is not much comfort.

I agree. It's like telling people they shouldn't be using their own
fossilfuelled transport - only going to happen if people feel they can
rely on public infrastructure to do a good-enough job; which last is
pretty subjective.

>>> When I was young I used to enjoy a cold snap, a few layers of woollies
>>> and I was in clover. As a young man I, at times, lived in Wales and Skye
>>> in winter without gas, electricity and an open fire burning driftwood
>>> off the beach. 60 million of us cannot live like that.
>>
>> Electricity is far too important a part of our lives for more than a
>> very small number to do without it for a small amount of time.

I agree. We need reliable electricity. At the moment, it seems your
chances of that reduce with local population density.

> Maybe, but if everything in your life depends on a single source of
> energy, it makes sense to find ways to limit your vulnerability.

I agree with this, too.

> A couple of candles and a torch can be part of the answer, but that
> doesn't get you very far.

My jbexvat life started with the 3day week. I've had power cuts once in
a while all my life. Less frequent now, but more stuff depends on it,
most of which I can do without for a few days if I have to. Candles is
okay, and if I didn't have mains/bottled gas there's always a Trangia
methsburner for hot food/kettle, but I wouldn't want to be cold on top
of all that. I've seen all-electric households in a several-day
powercut. Miserable. And they happen in bad weather, of course.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote in
news:DfWdnVWMhebwNi38nZ2dnUU78SvNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk:

>
> My jbexvat life started with the 3day week. I've had power cuts once
> in a while all my life. Less frequent now, but more stuff depends on
> it, most of which I can do without for a few days if I have to.
> Candles is okay, and if I didn't have mains/bottled gas there's always
> a Trangia methsburner for hot food/kettle, but I wouldn't want to be
> cold on top of all that. I've seen all-electric households in a
> several-day powercut. Miserable. And they happen in bad weather, of
> course.

We're all-electric to the extent that the gas central heating needs
electricity to control it. We have a GBFO battery in the loft but that
need sunshine to charge it, which is in short supply at the mo. OTOH,
whenever we've had a power cut of any length recently National Grid have
parked a ginourmous generator at the end of the road and life continues
as normal. But then, it's unusual for NE Hants to get cut off by snow
(famous last words).

--
Peter
-----

On 08-Dec-21 16:52, Peter wrote:
>
> We're all-electric to the extent that the gas central heating needs
> electricity to control it.

I wonder if there's a market for a CH pump which can have a girt big
clockwork mechanism attached - as a back up to the mains?

Winding the spring every couple of hours might get to be a bit of a faf,
but it's still better than freezing.

--
Sam Plusnet

On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 19:33:07 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

>On 08-Dec-21 16:52, Peter wrote:
>>
>> We're all-electric to the extent that the gas central heating needs
>> electricity to control it.
>
>I wonder if there's a market for a CH pump which can have a girt big
>clockwork mechanism attached - as a back up to the mains?
>
>Winding the spring every couple of hours might get to be a bit of a faf,
>but it's still better than freezing.

Perhaps you could use a flexible coupling to connect it to that
wind-up radio you thoiught was a good idea at the time? As the radio
runs down, it could wind up the pump.

Nick

On 08-Dec-21 19:46, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 19:33:07 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On 08-Dec-21 16:52, Peter wrote:
>>>
>>> We're all-electric to the extent that the gas central heating needs
>>> electricity to control it.
>>
>> I wonder if there's a market for a CH pump which can have a girt big
>> clockwork mechanism attached - as a back up to the mains?
>>
>> Winding the spring every couple of hours might get to be a bit of a faf,
>> but it's still better than freezing.
>
> Perhaps you could use a flexible coupling to connect it to that
> wind-up radio you thoiught was a good idea at the time? As the radio
> runs down, it could wind up the pump.

No need. Just attach a copy of your post, & that's as much of a wind up
as you could ever want.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 08/12/2021 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
> I wonder if there's a market for a CH pump which can have a girt big
> clockwork mechanism attached - as a back up to the mains?
>
> Winding the spring every couple of hours might get to be a bit of a faf,
> but it's still better than freezing.
>
> --
> Sam Plusnet

Not a bad idea.

Either that or a 12v battery-powered option.

Tone

Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
> On 08/12/2021 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>
>> I wonder if there's a market for a CH pump which can have a girt big
>> clockwork mechanism attached - as a back up to the mains?
>>
>> Winding the spring every couple of hours might get to be a bit of a faf,
>> but it's still better than freezing.
>>
>> --
>> Sam Plusnet
>
> Not a bad idea.
>
> Either that or a 12v battery-powered option.
>
> Tone
>

Given that the boiler won’t run without mains power I can’t see to point of
a clockwork pump. A small genny or battery+inverter seems like a better
bet (assuming you have a *big* battery).

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 09/12/2021 09:53, Tim+ wrote:
> Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>> On 08/12/2021 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>
>>> I wonder if there's a market for a CH pump which can have a girt big
>>> clockwork mechanism attached - as a back up to the mains?
>>>
>>> Winding the spring every couple of hours might get to be a bit of a faf,
>>> but it's still better than freezing.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sam Plusnet
>>
>> Not a bad idea.
>>
>> Either that or a 12v battery-powered option.
>>
>> Tone
>>
>
> Given that the boiler won’t run without mains power I can’t see to point of
> a clockwork pump. A small genny or battery+inverter seems like a better
> bet (assuming you have a *big* battery).
>
> Tim
>

Deep ends on the boiler.

Fit a solid fire back boiler, like in t'old days.

Tone

Tone said:
> On 08/12/2021 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>
>> I wonder if there's a market for a CH pump which can have a girt big
>> clockwork mechanism attached - as a back up to the mains?
>>
>> Winding the spring every couple of hours might get to be a bit of a faf,
>> but it's still better than freezing.
>>
>> --
>> Sam Plusnet
>
> Not a bad idea.
>
> Either that or a 12v battery-powered option.

Wood-pellet-burners would be a natural for clockwork.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 11:53:20 +0000
Tone <email@address.com> wrote:

> Deep ends on the boiler.
>
> Fit a solid fire back boiler, like in t'old days.

That's pretty much what I have - it's just the fireplace has been
updated a bit and becoming much more efficient, clean and convenient but
also fussy about what it burns in the process.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 09/12/2021 11:53, Tone wrote:
> On 09/12/2021 09:53, Tim+ wrote:
>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>>> On 08/12/2021 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if there's a market for a CH pump which can have a girt big
>>>> clockwork mechanism attached - as a back up to the mains?
>>>>
>>>> Winding the spring every couple of hours might get to be a bit of a
>>>> faf,
>>>> but it's still better than freezing.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sam Plusnet
>>>
>>> Not a bad idea.
>>>
>>> Either that or a 12v battery-powered option.
>>>
>>> Tone
>>>
>>
>> Given that the boiler won’t run without mains power I can’t see to
>> point of
>> a clockwork pump.  A small genny or battery+inverter seems like a better
>> bet (assuming you have a *big* battery).
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
> Deep ends on the boiler.
>
> Fit a solid fire back boiler, like in t'old days.

Anyone want to ohl a back-boiler?

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
> On 09/12/2021 09:53, Tim+ wrote:
>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>>> On 08/12/2021 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if there's a market for a CH pump which can have a girt big
>>>> clockwork mechanism attached - as a back up to the mains?
>>>>
>>>> Winding the spring every couple of hours might get to be a bit of a faf,
>>>> but it's still better than freezing.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sam Plusnet
>>>
>>> Not a bad idea.
>>>
>>> Either that or a 12v battery-powered option.
>>>
>>> Tone
>>>
>>
>> Given that the boiler won’t run without mains power I can’t see to point of
>> a clockwork pump. A small genny or battery+inverter seems like a better
>> bet (assuming you have a *big* battery).
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
> Deep ends on the boiler.
>
> Fit a solid fire back boiler, like in t'old days.

Go the whole hog and have a thermosyphon system. No pump needed.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 09/12/2021 13:46, Tim+ wrote:
> Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>> On 09/12/2021 09:53, Tim+ wrote:
>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>>>> On 08/12/2021 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if there's a market for a CH pump which can have a girt big
>>>>> clockwork mechanism attached - as a back up to the mains?
>>>>>
>>>>> Winding the spring every couple of hours might get to be a bit of a faf,
>>>>> but it's still better than freezing.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sam Plusnet
>>>>
>>>> Not a bad idea.
>>>>
>>>> Either that or a 12v battery-powered option.
>>>>
>>>> Tone
>>>>
>>>
>>> Given that the boiler won’t run without mains power I can’t see to point of
>>> a clockwork pump. A small genny or battery+inverter seems like a better
>>> bet (assuming you have a *big* battery).
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>
>> Deep ends on the boiler.
>>
>> Fit a solid fire back boiler, like in t'old days.
>
> Go the whole hog and have a thermosyphon system. No pump needed.

Very good, but you need a long riser, as well as larger bore pipes to do
it properly.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 09-Dec-21 17:28, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 09/12/2021 13:46, Tim+ wrote:
>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>>> On 09/12/2021 09:53, Tim+ wrote:
>>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 08/12/2021 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if there's a market for a CH pump which can have a girt big
>>>>>> clockwork mechanism attached - as a back up to the mains?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Winding the spring every couple of hours might get to be a bit of
>>>>>> a faf,
>>>>>> but it's still better than freezing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Sam Plusnet
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a bad idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> Either that or a 12v battery-powered option.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tone
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Given that the boiler won’t run without mains power I can’t see to
>>>> point of
>>>> a clockwork pump.  A small genny or battery+inverter seems like a
>>>> better
>>>> bet (assuming you have a *big* battery).
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>
>>> Deep ends on the boiler.
>>>
>>> Fit a solid fire back boiler, like in t'old days.
>>
>> Go the whole hog and have a thermosyphon system. No pump needed.
>
> Very good, but you need a long riser, as well as larger bore pipes to do
> it properly.
>
Thermosyphon is just another worm for the gravity feed that does our hot
water tank, pretty sure we couldn't run the radiators that way.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 09/12/2021 07:53 pm, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 09-Dec-21 17:28, RustyHinge wrote:
>> On 09/12/2021 13:46, Tim+ wrote:
>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>>>> On 09/12/2021 09:53, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 08/12/2021 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder if there's a market for a CH pump which can have a girt big
>>>>>>> clockwork mechanism attached - as a back up to the mains?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Winding the spring every couple of hours might get to be a bit of
>>>>>>> a faf,
>>>>>>> but it's still better than freezing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Sam Plusnet
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not a bad idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Either that or a 12v battery-powered option.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tone
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that the boiler won’t run without mains power I can’t see to
>>>>> point of
>>>>> a clockwork pump. A small genny or battery+inverter seems like a
>>>>> better
>>>>> bet (assuming you have a *big* battery).
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Deep ends on the boiler.
>>>>
>>>> Fit a solid fire back boiler, like in t'old days.
>>>
>>> Go the whole hog and have a thermosyphon system. No pump needed.
>>
>> Very good, but you need a long riser, as well as larger bore pipes to
>> do it properly.
>>
> Thermosyphon is just another worm for the gravity feed that does our hot
> water tank, pretty sure we couldn't run the radiators that way.
>

When we moved to a new house in 1957, the central heating system was
solid-fuel (coke) fired with gravity fed radiators; but it was a large
bore (~ 1½") system.

--
Chris Elvidge
England

Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
> On 09-Dec-21 17:28, RustyHinge wrote:
>> On 09/12/2021 13:46, Tim+ wrote:
>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>>>> On 09/12/2021 09:53, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 08/12/2021 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder if there's a market for a CH pump which can have a girt big
>>>>>>> clockwork mechanism attached - as a back up to the mains?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Winding the spring every couple of hours might get to be a bit of
>>>>>>> a faf,
>>>>>>> but it's still better than freezing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Sam Plusnet
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not a bad idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Either that or a 12v battery-powered option.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tone
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that the boiler won’t run without mains power I can’t see to
>>>>> point of
>>>>> a clockwork pump.  A small genny or battery+inverter seems like a
>>>>> better
>>>>> bet (assuming you have a *big* battery).
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Deep ends on the boiler.
>>>>
>>>> Fit a solid fire back boiler, like in t'old days.
>>>
>>> Go the whole hog and have a thermosyphon system. No pump needed.
>>
>> Very good, but you need a long riser, as well as larger bore pipes to do
>> it properly.
>>
> Thermosyphon is just another worm for the gravity feed that does our hot
> water tank, pretty sure we couldn't run the radiators that way.
>

Well no, you would need a system designed for it. They used to be, but
circulation is so slow that efficiency is terrible.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 09/12/2021 19:53, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 09-Dec-21 17:28, RustyHinge wrote:
>> On 09/12/2021 13:46, Tim+ wrote:
>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>>>> On 09/12/2021 09:53, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 08/12/2021 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder if there's a market for a CH pump which can have a girt big
>>>>>>> clockwork mechanism attached - as a back up to the mains?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Winding the spring every couple of hours might get to be a bit of
>>>>>>> a faf,
>>>>>>> but it's still better than freezing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Sam Plusnet
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not a bad idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Either that or a 12v battery-powered option.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tone
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that the boiler won’t run without mains power I can’t see to
>>>>> point of
>>>>> a clockwork pump.  A small genny or battery+inverter seems like a
>>>>> better
>>>>> bet (assuming you have a *big* battery).
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Deep ends on the boiler.
>>>>
>>>> Fit a solid fire back boiler, like in t'old days.
>>>
>>> Go the whole hog and have a thermosyphon system. No pump needed.
>>
>> Very good, but you need a long riser, as well as larger bore pipes to
>> do it properly.
>>
> Thermosyphon is just another worm for the gravity feed that does our hot
> water tank, pretty sure we couldn't run the radiators that way.

You could. Search on 'American riser'.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 08/12/2021 12:56, Richard Robinson wrote:
> Sam Plusnet said:
>> On 06-Dec-21 13:19, Mike Fleming wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not quite sure how much more clearly I can make this point - this is
>>> not a frequent event. To make a significant decision based on a single
>>> atypical event is stupid. I also wonder how she proposes to replace
>>> electricity for other things it may be used for, like the central
>>> heating pump.
>
> Other things ? I thought the point was that her central heating doesn't
> work in a power cut, isn't that what we're talking about ?

No, it was that she was going to tear out her electric heating and
replace it with a wood burner because she'd lost electric power for a
few days.

>> Not a frequent event, but if _you_ are the one without power for several
>> days that is not much comfort.
>
> I agree. It's like telling people they shouldn't be using their own
> fossilfuelled transport - only going to happen if people feel they can
> rely on public infrastructure to do a good-enough job; which last is
> pretty subjective.

It's like cutting off your nose because you've had a cold that blocked it.

>>>> When I was young I used to enjoy a cold snap, a few layers of woollies
>>>> and I was in clover. As a young man I, at times, lived in Wales and Skye
>>>> in winter without gas, electricity and an open fire burning driftwood
>>>> off the beach. 60 million of us cannot live like that.
>>>
>>> Electricity is far too important a part of our lives for more than a
>>> very small number to do without it for a small amount of time.
>
> I agree. We need reliable electricity. At the moment, it seems your
> chances of that reduce with local population density.

Possibly, but that also means that fewer people get affected.

>> Maybe, but if everything in your life depends on a single source of
>> energy, it makes sense to find ways to limit your vulnerability.
>
> I agree with this, too.

So switch from one single source of energy to another?

>> A couple of candles and a torch can be part of the answer, but that
>> doesn't get you very far.
>
> My jbexvat life started with the 3day week. I've had power cuts once in
> a while all my life. Less frequent now, but more stuff depends on it,
> most of which I can do without for a few days if I have to. Candles is
> okay, and if I didn't have mains/bottled gas there's always a Trangia
> methsburner for hot food/kettle, but I wouldn't want to be cold on top
> of all that. I've seen all-electric households in a several-day
> powercut. Miserable. And they happen in bad weather, of course.

We had a 45 minute power cut here a few days ago, after sundown so it
was dark. No panic, we have candles knocking around anyway, but it was a
reminder of how much of a role electricity plays in our lives.

Back in the days of the 3-day week or so, I remember my dad going out
one Saturday morning and returning with a medium-sized cardboard box.
"I'm not going to miss Doctor Who for anything" he said and unveiled a
Sony black-and-white TV which could be powered by a 12V battery, which
he later retrieved from the car. I think that telly lasted about 30
years, which wasn't bad.

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 11:53:20 +0000, Tone <email@address.com> wrote:

>Deep ends on the boiler.
>
>Fit a solid fire back boiler, like in t'old days.
>
>Tone

Bypass on the pump for gravity feed, with a valve?

Thomas Prufer

Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 11:53:20 +0000, Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>
>> Deep ends on the boiler.
>>
>> Fit a solid fire back boiler, like in t'old days.
>>
>> Tone
>
> Bypass on the pump for gravity feed, with a valve?
>

That would only work if all the rest of the system is designed around
gravity feed (which it won’t be). There’s a good reason gravity feed
systems died out, they were rubbish.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 03:21:52 +0000, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 08/12/2021 12:56, Richard Robinson wrote:
>> Sam Plusnet said:
>>> On 06-Dec-21 13:19, Mike Fleming wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm not quite sure how much more clearly I can make this point - this is
>>>> not a frequent event. To make a significant decision based on a single
>>>> atypical event is stupid. I also wonder how she proposes to replace
>>>> electricity for other things it may be used for, like the central
>>>> heating pump.
>>
>> Other things ? I thought the point was that her central heating doesn't
>> work in a power cut, isn't that what we're talking about ?
>
>No, it was that she was going to tear out her electric heating and
>replace it with a wood burner because she'd lost electric power for a
>few days.
>
>>> Not a frequent event, but if _you_ are the one without power for several
>>> days that is not much comfort.
>>
>> I agree. It's like telling people they shouldn't be using their own
>> fossilfuelled transport - only going to happen if people feel they can
>> rely on public infrastructure to do a good-enough job; which last is
>> pretty subjective.
>
>It's like cutting off your nose because you've had a cold that blocked it.
>
>>>>> When I was young I used to enjoy a cold snap, a few layers of woollies
>>>>> and I was in clover. As a young man I, at times, lived in Wales and Skye
>>>>> in winter without gas, electricity and an open fire burning driftwood
>>>>> off the beach. 60 million of us cannot live like that.
>>>>
>>>> Electricity is far too important a part of our lives for more than a
>>>> very small number to do without it for a small amount of time.
>>
>> I agree. We need reliable electricity. At the moment, it seems your
>> chances of that reduce with local population density.
>
>Possibly, but that also means that fewer people get affected.
>
>>> Maybe, but if everything in your life depends on a single source of
>>> energy, it makes sense to find ways to limit your vulnerability.
>>
>> I agree with this, too.
>
>So switch from one single source of energy to another?
>
>>> A couple of candles and a torch can be part of the answer, but that
>>> doesn't get you very far.
>>
>> My jbexvat life started with the 3day week. I've had power cuts once in
>> a while all my life. Less frequent now, but more stuff depends on it,
>> most of which I can do without for a few days if I have to. Candles is
>> okay, and if I didn't have mains/bottled gas there's always a Trangia
>> methsburner for hot food/kettle, but I wouldn't want to be cold on top
>> of all that. I've seen all-electric households in a several-day
>> powercut. Miserable. And they happen in bad weather, of course.
>
>We had a 45 minute power cut here a few days ago, after sundown so it
>was dark. No panic, we have candles knocking around anyway, but it was a
>reminder of how much of a role electricity plays in our lives.
>
>Back in the days of the 3-day week or so, I remember my dad going out
>one Saturday morning and returning with a medium-sized cardboard box.
>"I'm not going to miss Doctor Who for anything" he said and unveiled a
>Sony black-and-white TV which could be powered by a 12V battery, which
>he later retrieved from the car. I think that telly lasted about 30
>years, which wasn't bad.

I bought something like that in those days. It was made by Indesit,
dual voltage 240/12 and looked like something out of "Space 1999" But
like their washing machines, it didn't last thirty years.

Nick

On 09-Dec-21 22:37, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 09/12/2021 19:53, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 09-Dec-21 17:28, RustyHinge wrote:
>>> On 09/12/2021 13:46, Tim+ wrote:
>>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 09/12/2021 09:53, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 08/12/2021 19:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder if there's a market for a CH pump which can have a girt
>>>>>>>> big
>>>>>>>> clockwork mechanism attached - as a back up to the mains?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Winding the spring every couple of hours might get to be a bit
>>>>>>>> of a faf,
>>>>>>>> but it's still better than freezing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Sam Plusnet
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not a bad idea.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Either that or a 12v battery-powered option.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given that the boiler won’t run without mains power I can’t see to
>>>>>> point of
>>>>>> a clockwork pump.  A small genny or battery+inverter seems like a
>>>>>> better
>>>>>> bet (assuming you have a *big* battery).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Deep ends on the boiler.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fit a solid fire back boiler, like in t'old days.
>>>>
>>>> Go the whole hog and have a thermosyphon system. No pump needed.
>>>
>>> Very good, but you need a long riser, as well as larger bore pipes to
>>> do it properly.
>>>
>> Thermosyphon is just another worm for the gravity feed that does our
>> hot water tank, pretty sure we couldn't run the radiators that way.
>
> You could. Search on 'American riser'.
>
I don't do Netflix.

--
Sam Plusnet