BBC News

Two injured after Flying Scotsman crash at station

Two people have been taken to hospital after a collision involving the
Flying Scotsman locomotive and the Royal Scotsman carriages at a station
in the Highlands.

....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66967170

On 29/09/2023 22:22, JMB99 wrote:
> BBC News
>
> Two injured after Flying Scotsman crash at station
>
> Two people have been taken to hospital after a collision involving the
> Flying Scotsman locomotive and the Royal Scotsman carriages at a station
> in the Highlands.
>
> ...
>
>
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66967170

https://www.facebook.com/NorthYorkshireWeatherUpdates has photos of
broken bottles and cabinets inside the train.

Not sure why North Yorkshire Weather Updates has a story about a crash
in the Scotytish Highlands.

On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 22:41:15 +0100, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 29/09/2023 22:22, JMB99 wrote:
>> BBC News
>>
>> Two injured after Flying Scotsman crash at station
>>
>> Two people have been taken to hospital after a collision involving the
>> Flying Scotsman locomotive and the Royal Scotsman carriages at a station
>> in the Highlands.
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66967170
>
>
>https://www.facebook.com/NorthYorkshireWeatherUpdates has photos of
>broken bottles and cabinets inside the train.
>
>Not sure why North Yorkshire Weather Updates has a story about a crash
>in the Scotytish Highlands.
>
.... or off-grid electrical installations or trees being felled in
Northumberland ? Could the word "clickbait" feature?

On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 22:22:44 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

>BBC News
>
>Two injured after Flying Scotsman crash at station
>
>Two people have been taken to hospital after a collision involving the
>Flying Scotsman locomotive and the Royal Scotsman carriages at a station
>in the Highlands.
>
Can I take it the locomotive was coupling to the carriages, passengers
were on-board the carriages and the driver misjudged the speed of the
manoevre?

I thought passengers were supposed to be seated while coupling is
taking place. Is this a rule, and should an announcement be made? I
assume no damage from the description and no derailment?

Some good photographs

BBC News

Flying Scotsman crash: Safety checks to be carried out on iconic locomotive

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66970791

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 22:22:44 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> BBC News
>>
>> Two injured after Flying Scotsman crash at station
>>
>> Two people have been taken to hospital after a collision involving the
>> Flying Scotsman locomotive and the Royal Scotsman carriages at a station
>> in the Highlands.
>>
> Can I take it the locomotive was coupling to the carriages, passengers
> were on-board the carriages and the driver misjudged the speed of the
> manoevre?

Yes, it looks like it:

https://x.com/alastairdalton/status/1708260835594846209?s=61&t=hpa_q__1jHKBKNmXnN44ZQ

On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 15:31:28 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 22:22:44 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>> BBC News
>>>
>>> Two injured after Flying Scotsman crash at station
>>>
>>> Two people have been taken to hospital after a collision involving the
>>> Flying Scotsman locomotive and the Royal Scotsman carriages at a station
>>> in the Highlands.
>>>
>> Can I take it the locomotive was coupling to the carriages, passengers
>> were on-board the carriages and the driver misjudged the speed of the
>> manoevre?
>
>Yes, it looks like it:
>
>https://x.com/alastairdalton/status/1708260835594846209?s=61&t=hpa_q__1jHKBKNmXnN44ZQ
>

Those people on the carriage gangway area must've been a tad nervous.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 22:22:44 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>> BBC News
>>>
>>> Two injured after Flying Scotsman crash at station
>>>
>>> Two people have been taken to hospital after a collision involving the
>>> Flying Scotsman locomotive and the Royal Scotsman carriages at a station
>>> in the Highlands.
>>>
>> Can I take it the locomotive was coupling to the carriages, passengers
>> were on-board the carriages and the driver misjudged the speed of the
>> manoevre?
>
> Yes, it looks like it:
>
> https://x.com/alastairdalton/status/1708260835594846209?s=61&t=hpa_q__1jHKBKNmXnN44ZQ

Ouch! That will have made the water slosh around a bit in the boiler and
the tender!

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 01/10/2023 16:31, Recliner wrote:
> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 22:22:44 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>> BBC News
>>>
>>> Two injured after Flying Scotsman crash at station
>>>
>>> Two people have been taken to hospital after a collision involving the
>>> Flying Scotsman locomotive and the Royal Scotsman carriages at a station
>>> in the Highlands.
>>>
>> Can I take it the locomotive was coupling to the carriages, passengers
>> were on-board the carriages and the driver misjudged the speed of the
>> manoevre?
>
> Yes, it looks like it:
>
> https://x.com/alastairdalton/status/1708260835594846209?s=61&t=hpa_q__1jHKBKNmXnN44ZQ
>
>

Does appear to have backed down a bit fast!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 15:31:28 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 22:22:44 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>> BBC News
>>>
>>> Two injured after Flying Scotsman crash at station
>>>
>>> Two people have been taken to hospital after a collision involving the
>>> Flying Scotsman locomotive and the Royal Scotsman carriages at a station
>>> in the Highlands.
>>>
>> Can I take it the locomotive was coupling to the carriages, passengers
>> were on-board the carriages and the driver misjudged the speed of the
>> manoevre?
>
>Yes, it looks like it:
>
>https://x.com/alastairdalton/status/1708260835594846209?s=61&t=hpa_q__1jHKBKNmX
>nN44ZQ
>

Thats a hell of a misjudgement. Did he fall asleep?

One of carriages being taken away by road.

Investigators reviewing Flying Scotsman collision

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-66982388

"Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ufc7d3$1l5df$1@dont-email.me...
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> https://x.com/alastairdalton/status/1708260835594846209?s=61&t=hpa_q__1jHKBKNmXnN44ZQ
>
> Ouch! That will have made the water slosh around a bit in the boiler and
> the tender!

Interesting that the adult and child didn't turn a hair when the tender hit
the carriages, and just carried on walking towards the loco.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 15:31:28 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 22:22:44 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> BBC News
>>>>
>>>> Two injured after Flying Scotsman crash at station
>>>>
>>>> Two people have been taken to hospital after a collision involving the
>>>> Flying Scotsman locomotive and the Royal Scotsman carriages at a station
>>>> in the Highlands.
>>>>
>>> Can I take it the locomotive was coupling to the carriages, passengers
>>> were on-board the carriages and the driver misjudged the speed of the
>>> manoevre?
>>
>> Yes, it looks like it:
>>
>> https://x.com/alastairdalton/status/1708260835594846209?s=61&t=hpa_q__1jHKBKNmX
>> nN44ZQ
>>
>
> Thats a hell of a misjudgement. Did he fall asleep?

As it happened on a preserved line, I wonder if it was a driver without
much experience of powerful, high speed main line locos?

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 12:58:46 +0100
JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>One of carriages being taken away by road.
>
>
>
>
>Investigators reviewing Flying Scotsman collision
>
>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-66982388

"Police Scotland said it had concluded its inquiries, and had found there was
no criminality involved."

Why would they assume there might have been in the first place?

On 02/10/2023 16:18, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 12:58:46 +0100
> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>> One of carriages being taken away by road.
>>
>> Investigators reviewing Flying Scotsman collision
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-66982388
>
> "Police Scotland said it had concluded its inquiries, and had found there was
> no criminality involved."
>
> Why would they assume there might have been in the first place?

Because they're more used to dealing with road collisions, where one of
their first thoughts is whether they can do the driver(s) for some
offence or other. In this case, they quickly decided that they couldn't.

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 16:55:39 +0100
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>On 02/10/2023 16:18, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 12:58:46 +0100
>> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> One of carriages being taken away by road.
>>>
>>> Investigators reviewing Flying Scotsman collision
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-66982388
>>
>> "Police Scotland said it had concluded its inquiries, and had found there was
>
>> no criminality involved."
>>
>> Why would they assume there might have been in the first place?
>
>Because they're more used to dealing with road collisions, where one of
>their first thoughts is whether they can do the driver(s) for some
>offence or other. In this case, they quickly decided that they couldn't.

Don't get me started on how plod behaves with RTAs. They can't be arsed to
stop shoplifters or burglers but they have enough manpower to close a road
for half a day, fuck over god knows how many 100s or 1000s of people who are
stuck in the jams resulting from that and for what? So they can do someone
for some minor driving offence.

On the continent you'd essentially need a bomb to go off for a major road to
be closed, not some stupid shunt.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 16:55:39 +0100
> Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
>> On 02/10/2023 16:18, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 12:58:46 +0100
>>> JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> One of carriages being taken away by road.
>>>>
>>>> Investigators reviewing Flying Scotsman collision
>>>>
>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-66982388
>>>
>>> "Police Scotland said it had concluded its inquiries, and had found there was
>>
>>> no criminality involved."
>>>
>>> Why would they assume there might have been in the first place?
>>
>> Because they're more used to dealing with road collisions, where one of
>> their first thoughts is whether they can do the driver(s) for some
>> offence or other. In this case, they quickly decided that they couldn't.
>
> Don't get me started on how plod behaves with RTAs. They can't be arsed to
> stop shoplifters or burglers but they have enough manpower to close a road
> for half a day, fuck over god knows how many 100s or 1000s of people who are
> stuck in the jams resulting from that and for what? So they can do someone
> for some minor driving offence.
>
> On the continent you'd essentially need a bomb to go off for a major road to
> be closed, not some stupid shunt.
>
>

Wouldn’t the driver being under the influence constitute criminality?
Surely that has to be ruled out?

On 02/10/2023 17:39, Tweed wrote:
> On the continent you'd essentially need a bomb to go off for a major
> road to be closed, not some stupid shunt.

Not uncommon in Scotland for a road to be closed overnight after a
serious accident even when no alternative route.

It has always been my suspicion that they prefer to leave the road
closed overnight rather than pay the accident investigation team
overtime or night working payments.

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 08:37:55 -0000 (UTC), Muttley wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 15:31:28 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Yes, it looks like it:
>>
>>https://x.com/alastairdalton/status/1708260835594846209?
s=61&t=hpa_q__1jHKBKNmX
>>nN44ZQ
>>
>>
> Thats a hell of a misjudgement. Did he fall asleep?

Looking at that, I wonder if the driver was expecting to couple to the
coaches on the loop, which are much further away, and hadn't realised the
points were set for the platform line. The Royal Scotsman coaches are
barely clear of the points, so there would be very little time to realise
they had taken the wrong line if that was the case.

Mike

On 02/10/2023 16:18, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> "Police Scotland said it had concluded its inquiries, and had found
> there was no criminality involved." Why would they assume there might
> have been in the first place?

I used to stop regularly at one large roadside cafe / services. I
noticed one day when leaving the car park that it was very easy to think
the centre line of the road was actually the edge of the road and was
nearly caught out several times.

I day I stopped there at the same time as a colleague, without prompting
he said that he had been confused there several times.

It was a very busy so pulling and stopping at the centre line could lead
to a very serious accident.

There was a police car outside the nearby shop so we went and spoke to
the plod. He had no interest - no law being broken so not interested in
a possible road safety hazard i.e. could not nick someone so not interested.

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 15:18:56 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 12:58:46 +0100
>JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>One of carriages being taken away by road.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Investigators reviewing Flying Scotsman collision
>>
>>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-66982388
>
>"Police Scotland said it had concluded its inquiries, and had found there was
>no criminality involved."
>
>Why would they assume there might have been in the first place?
>
They would be acting on behalf of the Procurator Fiscal for what was
initially a potentially serious incident. As with the other emergency
services, an incident reported as a railway collision gets the full
works based on potential casualties until such time it is determined
as non-serious; roughly the same reason that a burning bin at a
hospital would get multiple vehicles attending rather than one or two
at a house.
The quoted response attributed to PS is maybe more tuned to past
experiences of level crossing collisions at Dalfaber; there doesn't
need to be criminality for the PF to be involved.

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 13:31:32 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 15:31:28 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 22:22:44 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> BBC News
>>>>>
>>>>> Two injured after Flying Scotsman crash at station
>>>>>
>>>>> Two people have been taken to hospital after a collision involving the
>>>>> Flying Scotsman locomotive and the Royal Scotsman carriages at a station
>>>>> in the Highlands.
>>>>>
>>>> Can I take it the locomotive was coupling to the carriages, passengers
>>>> were on-board the carriages and the driver misjudged the speed of the
>>>> manoevre?
>>>
>>> Yes, it looks like it:
>>>
>>> https://x.com/alastairdalton/status/1708260835594846209?s=61&t=hpa_q__1jHKBKNmX
>>> nN44ZQ
>>>
>>
>> Thats a hell of a misjudgement. Did he fall asleep?
>
>As it happened on a preserved line, I wonder if it was a driver without
>much experience of powerful, high speed main line locos?

I am wondering: should all passengers have been detrained before such
a manoevre could take place?

On 02/10/2023 20:32, Scott wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 13:31:32 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 15:31:28 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 22:22:44 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> BBC News
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Two injured after Flying Scotsman crash at station
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Two people have been taken to hospital after a collision involving the
>>>>>> Flying Scotsman locomotive and the Royal Scotsman carriages at a station
>>>>>> in the Highlands.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Can I take it the locomotive was coupling to the carriages, passengers
>>>>> were on-board the carriages and the driver misjudged the speed of the
>>>>> manoevre?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it looks like it:
>>>>
>>>> https://x.com/alastairdalton/status/1708260835594846209?s=61&t=hpa_q__1jHKBKNmX
>>>> nN44ZQ
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thats a hell of a misjudgement. Did he fall asleep?
>>
>> As it happened on a preserved line, I wonder if it was a driver without
>> much experience of powerful, high speed main line locos?
>
> I am wondering: should all passengers have been detrained before such
> a manoevre could take place?

Not done on mainline so why change the rules??

--
Colin

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 21:08:16 +0100, ColinR
<rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

>On 02/10/2023 20:32, Scott wrote:
>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 13:31:32 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 15:31:28 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 22:22:44 +0100, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BBC News
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Two injured after Flying Scotsman crash at station
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Two people have been taken to hospital after a collision involving the
>>>>>>> Flying Scotsman locomotive and the Royal Scotsman carriages at a station
>>>>>>> in the Highlands.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can I take it the locomotive was coupling to the carriages, passengers
>>>>>> were on-board the carriages and the driver misjudged the speed of the
>>>>>> manoevre?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, it looks like it:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://x.com/alastairdalton/status/1708260835594846209?s=61&t=hpa_q__1jHKBKNmX
>>>>> nN44ZQ
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thats a hell of a misjudgement. Did he fall asleep?
>>>
>>> As it happened on a preserved line, I wonder if it was a driver without
>>> much experience of powerful, high speed main line locos?
>>
>> I am wondering: should all passengers have been detrained before such
>> a manoevre could take place?
>
>Not done on mainline so why change the rules??

Because volunteer drivers may be less experienced than mainline
drivers?

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Sam Wilson" <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ufc7d3$1l5df$1@dont-email.me...
>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> https://x.com/alastairdalton/status/1708260835594846209?s=61&t=hpa_q__1jHKBKNmXnN44ZQ
>>
>> Ouch! That will have made the water slosh around a bit in the boiler and
>> the tender!
>
> Interesting that the adult and child didn't turn a hair when the tender hit
> the carriages, and just carried on walking towards the loco.

Yes, I thought that too!

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply