On 25/02/2022 10:29, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>> David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... secondly the idea was straight out of
>>>> Hitler's play book,
>>>
>>> There are many parallels with Hitler:
>>>
>>
>>
>> Don't you mean BoJo?
>
> No.
>
> I'm trying to learn what history can teach us about a serious
> internatinal situation, not make cheap party political jibes.
>

Is it not possible to analyse the current situation without reference to
previous dictators?

And if you /must/ compare with history then isn't Czechoslovakia in 1968
a closer fit than Hitler in the 30s?

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

On 25/02/2022 11:57, TimS wrote:

> Ah, so there's at least one sensible and aware person here who's not trying to
> treat the situation as a huge joke. It was suggested on Today this a.m. that
> Putin is behaving like most megalomaniacs and so it seems to me that if this
> is the case then the Baltics are the next logical target. That would mean WW3.
>

Invading the Baltics would open a second front. That's usually a
tactical mistake.

In fact if NATO were to invade anywhere, invading Russia via Latvia
would open that second front and force Russia to withdraw from Ukraine
(or go MAD).

The flaw with that plan is Moscow is a bit of a booby prize - what would
you do with it?

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

On 25/02/2022 13:54, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 25/02/2022 12:45, Alan B wrote:
>>>
>>> I fear the worse for Moldova in the short term but agree any attack on
>>> the Baltic states would mean WW3. Finland must also be concerned as
>>> the Russians invaded them at the start of WW2 and only left in 1945.
>>> It's inevitable that Ukraine will fall but if they can give the
>>> Russians a very bloody nose, Putin might just think again about
>>> further aggression.
>>>
>> According to the one o'clock news Putin wishes to liberate Ukraine and return
>> it to self governance...
>>
>> Once he's in they'll not get him out again you only have to look at Crimea.
>
> If the cost to the Russian people (in money and lives) is too great,
> they may take matters into their own hands. Remember, the majority
> didn't vote for Putin.
>
>
You're tight that they didn't vote for him but then again, not many people
voted for Hitler...
Putin is there, he's in control and he's busy arresting the protesters in his
free time. Russian state media is following the line purported by Nigel
Farrage; i.e. NATO and the EU provoked Russia.
Money isn't a problem for Putin, he has enough and he cares little how his
citizens live, and, if you think that Putin cares about lives...

On 25/02/2022 14:00, TimS wrote:
>
> There's always the post-occupation insurgency prospect.
>
How long did it take for them to get the message in Afghanistan?
And the Chechens still aren't rid of them.

On 25 Feb 2022 at 14:12:06 GMT, Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:

> On 25/02/2022 10:29, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>>> David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ... secondly the idea was straight out of
>>>>> Hitler's play book,
>>>>
>>>> There are many parallels with Hitler:
>>>
>>> Don't you mean BoJo?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> I'm trying to learn what history can teach us about a serious
>> internatinal situation, not make cheap party political jibes.
>
> Is it not possible to analyse the current situation without reference to
> previous dictators?

It helps to remember what they did and why, and what mistakes they made. Could
be that Putin will just pocket his gains and with all that oil&gas money just
ride it out. Or his anger will cause him to attack the Baltic states,
something for which the Russians have form. He may end up with a bloodier nose
then which could end him, if we don't all fry first.

> And if you /must/ compare with history then isn't Czechoslovakia in 1968
> a closer fit than Hitler in the 30s?

That was a Warsaw Pact invasion (thus giving the SU some political cover) that
was unopposed. This is very definitely opposed, as was Adolf in Sept 1939.

--
Tim

On 25 Feb 2022 at 14:16:02 GMT, David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 25/02/2022 13:54, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/02/2022 12:45, Alan B wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I fear the worse for Moldova in the short term but agree any attack on
>>>> the Baltic states would mean WW3. Finland must also be concerned as
>>>> the Russians invaded them at the start of WW2 and only left in 1945.
>>>> It's inevitable that Ukraine will fall but if they can give the
>>>> Russians a very bloody nose, Putin might just think again about
>>>> further aggression.
>>>>
>>> According to the one o'clock news Putin wishes to liberate Ukraine and return
>>> it to self governance...
>>>
>>> Once he's in they'll not get him out again you only have to look at Crimea.
>>
>> If the cost to the Russian people (in money and lives) is too great,
>> they may take matters into their own hands. Remember, the majority
>> didn't vote for Putin.
>>
> You're tight that they didn't vote for him but then again, not many people
> voted for Hitler...

After various elections the Nazis were the largest party.

--
Tim

On 25/02/2022 07:47, David Kennedy wrote:
> On 25/02/2022 07:37, David Kennedy wrote:
>> I know this is well off topic but, as the Government don't seem to
>> have a clue...
>>
>> https://chng.it/m5rQMVhrN5
>>
>> And my apologies for getting serious for a moment.
>
> For those of you who don't click on unidentified links, it's a petition
> to sanction Russia properly.
>
> I tried to petition Parliament directly but was informed that they would
> review the petition and let me know within 14 days...

Actually it's a petition to: "Ban ALL trade and commercial dealings with
Russia unil they withdraw from Ukraine" which is more specific than
"sanction Russia properly".

The problem with banning all trade is that we would run out of gas very
quickly, so it isn't going to happen.

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

On 25/02/2022 14:19, TimS wrote:
> On 25 Feb 2022 at 14:16:02 GMT, David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 25/02/2022 13:54, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>> David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 25/02/2022 12:45, Alan B wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I fear the worse for Moldova in the short term but agree any attack on
>>>>> the Baltic states would mean WW3. Finland must also be concerned as
>>>>> the Russians invaded them at the start of WW2 and only left in 1945.
>>>>> It's inevitable that Ukraine will fall but if they can give the
>>>>> Russians a very bloody nose, Putin might just think again about
>>>>> further aggression.
>>>>>
>>>> According to the one o'clock news Putin wishes to liberate Ukraine and return
>>>> it to self governance...
>>>>
>>>> Once he's in they'll not get him out again you only have to look at Crimea.
>>>
>>> If the cost to the Russian people (in money and lives) is too great,
>>> they may take matters into their own hands. Remember, the majority
>>> didn't vote for Putin.
>>>
>> You're tight that they didn't vote for him but then again, not many people
>> voted for Hitler...
>
> After various elections the Nazis were the largest party.
>
United Russia has over 70% of the seats in the Duma.

On 25/02/2022 13:54, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 25/02/2022 12:45, Alan B wrote:
>>>
>>> I fear the worse for Moldova in the short term but agree any attack on
>>> the Baltic states would mean WW3. Finland must also be concerned as
>>> the Russians invaded them at the start of WW2 and only left in 1945.
>>> It's inevitable that Ukraine will fall but if they can give the
>>> Russians a very bloody nose, Putin might just think again about
>>> further aggression.
>>>
>> According to the one o'clock news Putin wishes to liberate Ukraine and return
>> it to self governance...
>>
>> Once he's in they'll not get him out again you only have to look at Crimea.
>
> If the cost to the Russian people (in money and lives) is too great,
> they may take matters into their own hands. Remember, the majority
> didn't vote for Putin.
>
>

The majority didn't vote for Hitler either. The one hope is the
oligarchs will get fed up with losing money and have him removed from
office.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 25/02/2022 14:12, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> On 25/02/2022 10:29, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>>> David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ... secondly the idea was straight out of
>>>>> Hitler's play book,
>>>>
>>>> There are many parallels with Hitler:
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't you mean BoJo?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> I'm trying to learn what history can teach us about a serious
>> internatinal situation, not make cheap party political jibes.
>>
>
> Is it not possible to analyse the current situation without reference to
> previous dictators?
>
> And if you /must/ compare with history then isn't Czechoslovakia in 1968
>  a closer fit than Hitler in the 30s?
>
>

No, Hitler in the 1930s is the exact parallel. In 1968 Czechoslovakia
was still a Soviet colony, Ukraine, up till yesterday, was a sovereign
state.

Hitler invade Austria and got away with it, he then invaded
Czechoslovakia and got away with it. He then invade Poland…

Putin invaded Georgia and got away with it, he has invaded Ukraine and
will get away with it. He will then invade?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 25/02/2022 14:12, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> On 25/02/2022 10:29, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>>> David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ... secondly the idea was straight out of
>>>>> Hitler's play book,
>>>>
>>>> There are many parallels with Hitler:
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't you mean BoJo?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> I'm trying to learn what history can teach us about a serious
>> internatinal situation, not make cheap party political jibes.
>>
>
> Is it not possible to analyse the current situation without reference to
> previous dictators?
>
> And if you /must/ compare with history then isn't Czechoslovakia in 1968  a
> closer fit than Hitler in the 30s?
>
>
Or Hungary before that.

On 25/02/2022 14:20, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
>
> The problem with banning all trade is that we would run out of gas very
> quickly, so it isn't going to happen.
>

I think Vlad knows that and is counting on it to hold everyone back.

Also, I think he got the short straw as a test case for Taiwan. A sort of try
it and see and we'll hold the UN back.

Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:

> On 25/02/2022 07:47, David Kennedy wrote:
> > On 25/02/2022 07:37, David Kennedy wrote:
> >> I know this is well off topic but, as the Government don't seem to
> >> have a clue...
> >>
> >> https://chng.it/m5rQMVhrN5
> >>
> >> And my apologies for getting serious for a moment.
> >
> > For those of you who don't click on unidentified links, it's a petition
> > to sanction Russia properly.
> >
> > I tried to petition Parliament directly but was informed that they would
> > review the petition and let me know within 14 days...
>
> Actually it's a petition to: "Ban ALL trade and commercial dealings with
> Russia unil they withdraw from Ukraine" which is more specific than
> "sanction Russia properly".
>
> The problem with banning all trade is that we would run out of gas very
> quickly, so it isn't going to happen.

Would we? What precentage of our gas comes from Russia? (...or would
our supplies from other sources be bought up by other countries that are
more dependent on Russia?) Do we just roll over and say "You can do
anything you like as long as we can still get cheap gas from you"?

Which is less bad in the long run: all-out sanctions that will hurt us
economically but lead to Putin's downfall or all-out war, which is where
this will eventually lead because Putin will keep pushing us us further
and further until war is the only way to stop him?

Putin doesn't care about our sanctions, but his 'friends and countrymen'
will when the effect begins to bite on them. The quicker we start that
process in earnest, the fewer people will be killed.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On 25/02/2022 15:33, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
>
>> On 25/02/2022 07:47, David Kennedy wrote:
>>> On 25/02/2022 07:37, David Kennedy wrote:
>>>> I know this is well off topic but, as the Government don't seem to
>>>> have a clue...
>>>>
>>>> https://chng.it/m5rQMVhrN5
>>>>
>>>> And my apologies for getting serious for a moment.
>>>
>>> For those of you who don't click on unidentified links, it's a petition
>>> to sanction Russia properly.
>>>
>>> I tried to petition Parliament directly but was informed that they would
>>> review the petition and let me know within 14 days...
>>
>> Actually it's a petition to: "Ban ALL trade and commercial dealings with
>> Russia unil they withdraw from Ukraine" which is more specific than
>> "sanction Russia properly".
>>
>> The problem with banning all trade is that we would run out of gas very
>> quickly, so it isn't going to happen.
>
> Would we? What precentage of our gas comes from Russia? (...or would
> our supplies from other sources be bought up by other countries that are
> more dependent on Russia?) Do we just roll over and say "You can do
> anything you like as long as we can still get cheap gas from you"?
>
> Which is less bad in the long run: all-out sanctions that will hurt us
> economically but lead to Putin's downfall or all-out war, which is where
> this will eventually lead because Putin will keep pushing us us further
> and further until war is the only way to stop him?
>
I do think he sees it that way, he got away with in with Crimea so why not try
again.

> Putin doesn't care about our sanctions, but his 'friends and countrymen'
> will when the effect begins to bite on them. The quicker we start that
> process in earnest, the fewer people will be killed.
>
I'd like to think that's true but, having said no military assistance it is
the least we could do. It seems to be Germany and Italy holding things back.

Liz Tuddenham wrote:

[snip]

>>
>> Actually it's a petition to: "Ban ALL trade and commercial dealings with
>> Russia unil they withdraw from Ukraine" which is more specific than
>> "sanction Russia properly".
>>
>> The problem with banning all trade is that we would run out of gas very
>> quickly, so it isn't going to happen.
>
> Would we? What precentage of our gas comes from Russia?

We could probably make all the gas we need by anaerobic digestion of
waste. We do a little of this already in sewage treatment plants, but
we could process absolutely all biological waste - including kitchen &
garden waste, agricultural waste such as straw and manure, unwanted
animal carcasses, industrial food processing waste, building waste such
as cardboard and wood, and even human cadavers. It might also be
possible to process all plastic waste to generate a gas or liquid fuel.

It would clean up the environment, as well. And reduce our dependence
of fossil fuels.

But in terms of applying pressure to Russia, I don't see that Putin
needs our money - unless he wants to buy arms from us?

--
Graham J

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

> Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >>
> >> Actually it's a petition to: "Ban ALL trade and commercial dealings with
> >> Russia unil they withdraw from Ukraine" which is more specific than
> >> "sanction Russia properly".
> >>
> >> The problem with banning all trade is that we would run out of gas very
> >> quickly, so it isn't going to happen.
> >
> > Would we? What precentage of our gas comes from Russia?
>
> We could probably make all the gas we need by anaerobic digestion of
> waste.

....but not in the next few weeks.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 25/02/2022 14:19, TimS wrote:
> > On 25 Feb 2022 at 14:16:02 GMT, David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 25/02/2022 13:54, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> >>> David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 25/02/2022 12:45, Alan B wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I fear the worse for Moldova in the short term but agree any attack on
> >>>>> the Baltic states would mean WW3. Finland must also be concerned as
> >>>>> the Russians invaded them at the start of WW2 and only left in 1945.
> >>>>> It's inevitable that Ukraine will fall but if they can give the
> >>>>> Russians a very bloody nose, Putin might just think again about
> >>>>> further aggression.
> >>>>> According to the one o'clock news Putin wishes to liberate Ukraine
> >>>>and return it to self governance...
> >>>>
> >>>> Once he's in they'll not get him out again you only have to look at
> >>>>Crimea.
> >>>
> >>> If the cost to the Russian people (in money and lives) is too great,
> >>> they may take matters into their own hands. Remember, the majority
> >>> didn't vote for Putin.
> >>>
> >> You're tight that they didn't vote for him but then again, not many people
> >> voted for Hitler...
> >
> > After various elections the Nazis were the largest party.
> >
> United Russia has over 70% of the seats in the Duma.

How many of those are actually supporters of Putin and his policies and
how many are there purely for their own power and will turn on him when
the winds change? I've heard comments about the body language of his
'supporters' in his recent publicity video.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On 25/02/2022 16:36, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 25/02/2022 14:19, TimS wrote:
>>> On 25 Feb 2022 at 14:16:02 GMT, David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 25/02/2022 13:54, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>>>> David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25/02/2022 12:45, Alan B wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I fear the worse for Moldova in the short term but agree any attack on
>>>>>>> the Baltic states would mean WW3. Finland must also be concerned as
>>>>>>> the Russians invaded them at the start of WW2 and only left in 1945.
>>>>>>> It's inevitable that Ukraine will fall but if they can give the
>>>>>>> Russians a very bloody nose, Putin might just think again about
>>>>>>> further aggression.
>>>>>>> According to the one o'clock news Putin wishes to liberate Ukraine
>>>>>> and return it to self governance...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once he's in they'll not get him out again you only have to look at
>>>>>> Crimea.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the cost to the Russian people (in money and lives) is too great,
>>>>> they may take matters into their own hands. Remember, the majority
>>>>> didn't vote for Putin.
>>>>>
>>>> You're tight that they didn't vote for him but then again, not many people
>>>> voted for Hitler...
>>>
>>> After various elections the Nazis were the largest party.
>>>
>> United Russia has over 70% of the seats in the Duma.
>
> How many of those are actually supporters of Putin and his policies and
> how many are there purely for their own power and will turn on him when
> the winds change? I've heard comments about the body language of his
> 'supporters' in his recent publicity video.

What you say maybe true but, who, other than Putin is going to give them the
same treatment?

On 25 Feb 2022 at 10:09:15 CET, "David Kennedy" <davidkennedygm@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> Everyone is pussyfooting around Germany who are obstructing EU sanctions and
>> the longer they do the worse it will eventually be.
>
> If only someone would blow up nordstream...

The invasion of Ukraine is so senseless that apart from the purposeless horror
visited upon its citizens, it seems perfectly plausible to me that Putin might
decide to use nuclear weapons too.

Daniele

On 25 Feb 2022 at 16:16:05 GMT, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

> Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>>
>>> Actually it's a petition to: "Ban ALL trade and commercial dealings with
>>> Russia unil they withdraw from Ukraine" which is more specific than
>>> "sanction Russia properly".
>>>
>>> The problem with banning all trade is that we would run out of gas very
>>> quickly, so it isn't going to happen.
>>
>> Would we? What precentage of our gas comes from Russia?
>
> We could probably make all the gas we need by anaerobic digestion of
> waste. We do a little of this already in sewage treatment plants, but
> we could process absolutely all biological waste - including kitchen &
> garden waste, agricultural waste such as straw and manure, unwanted
> animal carcasses, industrial food processing waste, building waste such
> as cardboard and wood, and even human cadavers. It might also be
> possible to process all plastic waste to generate a gas or liquid fuel.
>
> It would clean up the environment, as well. And reduce our dependence
> of fossil fuels.
>
> But in terms of applying pressure to Russia, I don't see that Putin
> needs our money - unless he wants to buy arms from us?

Now we start to see how stupid it was to give in to the anti-fracking lobby
and the anti-nuke lobby before that.

--
Tim

On 25/02/2022 17:28, TimS wrote:
> On 25 Feb 2022 at 16:16:05 GMT, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually it's a petition to: "Ban ALL trade and commercial dealings with
>>>> Russia unil they withdraw from Ukraine" which is more specific than
>>>> "sanction Russia properly".
>>>>
>>>> The problem with banning all trade is that we would run out of gas very
>>>> quickly, so it isn't going to happen.
>>>
>>> Would we? What precentage of our gas comes from Russia?
>>
>> We could probably make all the gas we need by anaerobic digestion of
>> waste. We do a little of this already in sewage treatment plants, but
>> we could process absolutely all biological waste - including kitchen &
>> garden waste, agricultural waste such as straw and manure, unwanted
>> animal carcasses, industrial food processing waste, building waste such
>> as cardboard and wood, and even human cadavers. It might also be
>> possible to process all plastic waste to generate a gas or liquid fuel.
>>
>> It would clean up the environment, as well. And reduce our dependence
>> of fossil fuels.
>>
>> But in terms of applying pressure to Russia, I don't see that Putin
>> needs our money - unless he wants to buy arms from us?
>
> Now we start to see how stupid it was to give in to the anti-fracking lobby
> and the anti-nuke lobby before that.
>
Stop worrying, I confidently expect Russia's withdrawal at any moment now
they've been banned from Eurovision...

On 25/02/2022 17:28, D.M. Procida wrote:
> On 25 Feb 2022 at 10:09:15 CET, "David Kennedy" <davidkennedygm@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> Everyone is pussyfooting around Germany who are obstructing EU sanctions and
>>> the longer they do the worse it will eventually be.
>>
>> If only someone would blow up nordstream...
>
> The invasion of Ukraine is so senseless that apart from the purposeless horror
> visited upon its citizens, it seems perfectly plausible to me that Putin might
> decide to use nuclear weapons too.
>
> Daniele
>
It wouldn't come as a surprise.

On 25/02/2022 16:16, Graham J wrote:
> Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>>
>>> Actually it's a petition to: "Ban ALL trade and commercial dealings with
>>> Russia unil they withdraw from Ukraine" which is more specific than
>>> "sanction Russia properly".
>>>
>>> The problem with banning all trade is that we would run out of gas very
>>> quickly, so it isn't going to happen.
>>
>> Would we?  What precentage of our gas comes from Russia?
>
> We could probably make all the gas we need by anaerobic digestion of
> waste.  We do a little of this already in sewage treatment plants, but
> we could process absolutely all biological waste - including kitchen &
> garden waste, agricultural waste such as straw and manure, unwanted
> animal carcasses, industrial food processing waste, building waste such
> as cardboard and wood, and even human cadavers.  It might also be
> possible to process all plastic waste to generate a gas or liquid fuel.
>
> It would clean up the environment, as well.  And reduce our dependence
> of fossil fuels.
>
> But in terms of applying pressure to Russia, I don't see that Putin
> needs our money - unless he wants to buy arms from us?
>

We've a couple of aircraft carriers we don't need. His, apparently, is
knackered.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 25/02/2022 17:43, David Kennedy wrote:
> On 25/02/2022 17:28, TimS wrote:
>> On 25 Feb 2022 at 16:16:05 GMT, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually it's a petition to: "Ban ALL trade and commercial dealings
>>>>> with
>>>>> Russia unil they withdraw from Ukraine" which is more specific than
>>>>> "sanction Russia properly".
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem with banning all trade is that we would run out of gas
>>>>> very
>>>>> quickly, so it isn't going to happen.
>>>>
>>>> Would we?  What precentage of our gas comes from Russia?
>>>
>>> We could probably make all the gas we need by anaerobic digestion of
>>> waste.  We do a little of this already in sewage treatment plants, but
>>> we could process absolutely all biological waste - including kitchen &
>>> garden waste, agricultural waste such as straw and manure, unwanted
>>> animal carcasses, industrial food processing waste, building waste such
>>> as cardboard and wood, and even human cadavers.  It might also be
>>> possible to process all plastic waste to generate a gas or liquid fuel.
>>>
>>> It would clean up the environment, as well.  And reduce our dependence
>>> of fossil fuels.
>>>
>>> But in terms of applying pressure to Russia, I don't see that Putin
>>> needs our money - unless he wants to buy arms from us?
>>
>> Now we start to see how stupid it was to give in to the anti-fracking
>> lobby
>> and the anti-nuke lobby before that.
>>
> Stop worrying, I confidently expect Russia's withdrawal at any moment
> now they've been banned from Eurovision...

ROTFL

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 25 Feb 2022 at 09:28:57 GMT, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:

> David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ... secondly the idea was straight out of
>> Hitler's play book,
>
> There are many parallels with Hitler:
>
> A weak man pretending to be strong.
>
> A belief that physical strength is the only means of getting your own
> way.

"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent" - Hober Mallow (IIRC).

>
> Fulfilling a childhood ambition to suppress race/nationality.
>
> Such a belief in his own cleverness that he over-rules his specialist
> advisors. (Currently by waging war in the first place, but later, we
> hope, by ignoring his strategists and making bad mistakes.)
>
> A dictator who has blocked every legal way of removing him (leaving only
> illegal methods, which desperate members of his entourage may eventually
> resort to).

--
Classic computing: Computers do what you tell them to do, not what you want them to do.
Modern computing: Computers do what they want to do, no matter what you tell them to do.