This source keeps producing troubling snippets:

https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506

South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp

Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office. Couple of other friends from HO &
FCDO also there.

HS2 is still up in the air so to speak. Nobody knows what the PM
is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
in line.

Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it. Determined
to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
money is issue.

Who will pay and for exactly what. Even if it does get there
will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge. And
to only providing a minimal service. Much enthusiasm for
East-West SuperHighway.

PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
policies. Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
anticipate what PM will say next. One man band territory.

No progress on NPR or (fantasy) Network North. Total silence on
rolling stock, infrastructure, etc. Still ‘apparent’ enthusiasm
for TO closures and general staff reductions.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>
> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>
> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>
> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office. Couple of other friends from HO &
> FCDO also there.
>
> HS2 is still up in the air so to speak. Nobody knows what the PM
> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
> in line.
>
> Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it. Determined
> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
> money is issue.
>
> Who will pay and for exactly what. Even if it does get there
> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge. And
> to only providing a minimal service. Much enthusiasm for
> East-West SuperHighway.
>
> PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
> policies. Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
> anticipate what PM will say next. One man band territory.
>
> No progress on NPR or (fantasy) Network North. Total silence on
> rolling stock, infrastructure, etc. Still ‘apparent’ enthusiasm
> for TO closures and general staff reductions.
>

Sunak is truly Thatcher's child!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>
> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>
> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>
> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office. Couple of other friends from HO &
> FCDO also there.
>
> HS2 is still up in the air so to speak. Nobody knows what the PM
> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
> in line.
>
> Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it. Determined
> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
> Newsgroups: uk.railway
> Subject: Re: It gets no better
> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 +0000
> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
> Lines: 44
> Message-ID: <uhlg95$3rop3$1@dont-email.me>
> References: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Injection-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 -0000 (UTC)
> Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="8487b2de2ec2206561cf6cbb113f247b";
> logging-data="4055843"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19eGFASinqjrQyh7GtwNT2414Or8Wk+uB0="
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
> Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:PcubsMmSHHDNOSdJPRNaGj8oU5E=
> Content-Language: en-GB
> In-Reply-To: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.railway:660957
>
> On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>
>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>
>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>
>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office. Couple of other friends from HO &
>> FCDO also there.
>>
> money is issue.
>
> Who will pay and for exactly what. Even if it does get there
> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge. And
> to only providing a minimal service. Much enthusiasm for
> East-West SuperHighway.
>
> PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
> policies. Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
> anticipate what PM will say next. One man band territory.
>
> Chris

Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
water.

In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office. Couple of other friends from HO &
>> FCDO also there.
>> HS2 is still up in the air so to speak. Nobody knows what the PM
>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>> in line.
>> Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it. Determined
>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>> Newsgroups: uk.railway
>> Subject: Re: It gets no better
>> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 +0000
>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>> Lines: 44
>> Message-ID: <uhlg95$3rop3$1@dont-email.me>
>> References: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>> Injection-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 -0000 (UTC)
>> Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
>>posting-host="8487b2de2ec2206561cf6cbb113f247b";
>> logging-data="4055843";
>>mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";
>>posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19eGFASinqjrQyh7GtwNT2414Or8Wk+uB0="
>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>> Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:PcubsMmSHHDNOSdJPRNaGj8oU5E=
>> Content-Language: en-GB
>> In-Reply-To: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.railway:660957
>> On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>
>>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>
>>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office. Couple of other friends from HO &
>>> FCDO also there.
>>>
>> money is issue.
>> Who will pay and for exactly what. Even if it does get there
>> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
>> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge. And
>> to only providing a minimal service. Much enthusiasm for
>> East-West SuperHighway.
>> PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
>> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
>> policies. Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
>> anticipate what PM will say next. One man band territory.
>> Chris
>
>Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>water.

Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
above current sea level.
--
Roland Perry

On 29/10/2023 16:13, Bevan Price wrote:
> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>
>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>
>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>
>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>> FCDO also there.
>>
>> HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>> in line.
>>
>> Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>> Path:
>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>> Newsgroups: uk.railway
>> Subject: Re: It gets no better
>> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 +0000
>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>> Lines: 44
>> Message-ID: <uhlg95$3rop3$1@dont-email.me>
>> References: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>> Injection-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 -0000 (UTC)
>> Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
>> posting-host="8487b2de2ec2206561cf6cbb113f247b";
>>     logging-data="4055843";
>> mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";
>> posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19eGFASinqjrQyh7GtwNT2414Or8Wk+uB0="
>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>>   Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:PcubsMmSHHDNOSdJPRNaGj8oU5E=
>> Content-Language: en-GB
>> In-Reply-To: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.railway:660957
>>
>> On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>
>>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>
>>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>> FCDO also there.
>>>
>> money is issue.
>>
>> Who will pay and for exactly what.  Even if it does get there
>> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
>> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge.  And
>> to only providing a minimal service.  Much enthusiasm for
>> East-West SuperHighway.
>>
>> PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
>> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
>> policies.  Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
>> anticipate what PM will say next.  One man band territory.
>>
>> Chris
>
> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
> water.
>

All he cares about is his election chances.

It seems to me he's after support from climate change deniers and motor
heads as few other people are stupid enough to support him.

On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>> FCDO also there.
>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>> in line.
>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>> Path:
>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>>> Newsgroups: uk.railway
>>> Subject: Re: It gets no better
>>> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 +0000
>>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>>> Lines: 44
>>> Message-ID: <uhlg95$3rop3$1@dont-email.me>
>>> References: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>> Injection-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
>>> posting-host="8487b2de2ec2206561cf6cbb113f247b";
>>>      logging-data="4055843";
>>> mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";
>>> posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19eGFASinqjrQyh7GtwNT2414Or8Wk+uB0="
>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>>>   Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:PcubsMmSHHDNOSdJPRNaGj8oU5E=
>>> Content-Language: en-GB
>>> In-Reply-To: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.railway:660957
>>>  On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>
>>>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>
>>>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>
>>>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>
>>> money is issue.
>>>  Who will pay and for exactly what.  Even if it does get there
>>> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
>>> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge.  And
>>> to only providing a minimal service.  Much enthusiasm for
>>> East-West SuperHighway.
>>>  PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
>>> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
>>> policies.  Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
>>> anticipate what PM will say next.  One man band territory.
>>>  Chris
>>
>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>> water.
>
> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
> above current sea level.

That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
take up to 50-100 years)

Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>>> in line.
>>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>>> Path:
>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>>>> Newsgroups: uk.railway
>>>> Subject: Re: It gets no better
>>>> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 +0000
>>>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>>>> Lines: 44
>>>> Message-ID: <uhlg95$3rop3$1@dont-email.me>
>>>> References: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>> Injection-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
>>>> posting-host="8487b2de2ec2206561cf6cbb113f247b";
>>>>      logging-data="4055843";
>>>> mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";
>>>> posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19eGFASinqjrQyh7GtwNT2414Or8Wk+uB0="
>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>>>>   Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
>>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:PcubsMmSHHDNOSdJPRNaGj8oU5E=
>>>> Content-Language: en-GB
>>>> In-Reply-To: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.railway:660957
>>>>  On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>
>>>>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>
>>>>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>
>>>> money is issue.
>>>>  Who will pay and for exactly what.  Even if it does get there
>>>> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
>>>> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge.  And
>>>> to only providing a minimal service.  Much enthusiasm for
>>>> East-West SuperHighway.
>>>>  PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
>>>> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
>>>> policies.  Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
>>>> anticipate what PM will say next.  One man band territory.
>>>>  Chris
>>>
>>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>>> water.
>>
>> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
>> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
>> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
>> above current sea level.
>
> That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
> take up to 50-100 years)

Roland was right.

"In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."

https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts

On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>>>> in line.
>>>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>>>> Path:
>>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>

<Snipping out all that header gahbarge?

>>>>
>>>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>>>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>>>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>>>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>>>> water.
>>>
>>> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
>>> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
>>> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
>>> above current sea level.
>>
>> That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>> take up to 50-100 years)
>
>Roland was right.

Holy Whoever!

Truce or consequences?

Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>>>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>>>>> in line.
>>>>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>>>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>>>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>>>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>>>>> Path:
>>>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>>>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>
> <Snipping out all that header gahbarge?
>
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>>>>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>>>>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>>>>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>>>>> water.
>>>>
>>>> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
>>>> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
>>>> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
>>>> above current sea level.
>>>
>>> That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>>> take up to 50-100 years)
>>
>> Roland was right.
>
> Holy Whoever!
>
> Truce or consequences?
>

Simple fact. His statement was correct, and I'm happy to support what he
said.

Global warming is real, more than 100% man-made, and the consequences are
already visible, slightly less than the consensus climate change models.
But it does no good to cite or invent hyperbolic, ridiculously exaggerated
predictions that simply discredit the genuine, justified fears.

Unfortunately, I don't think the world will achieve net zero carbon within
the next few decades, so our descendants will need to implement some sort
of geo-engineering to maintain comfortable lifestyles. What the UK does is
essentially irrelevant and, arguably, truncating HS2 at Handsacre Junction
might actually make a tiny reduction in our future CO2 emissions.

Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>>>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>>>>> in line.
>>>>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>>>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>>>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>>>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>>>>> Path:
>>>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>>>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>
> <Snipping out all that header gahbarge?
>
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>>>>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>>>>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>>>>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>>>>> water.
>>>>
>>>> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
>>>> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
>>>> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
>>>> above current sea level.
>>>
>>> That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>>> take up to 50-100 years)
>>
>> Roland was right.
>
> Holy Whoever!
>
> Truce or consequences?
>

Simple fact. His statement was correct, and I'm happy to support what he
said.

Global warming is real, more than 100% man-made, and the consequences are
already visible, slightly less than the consensus climate change models.
But it does no good to cite or invent hyperbolic, ridiculously exaggerated
predictions that simply discredit the genuine, justified fears.

Unfortunately, I don't think the world will achieve net zero carbon within
the next few decades, so our descendants will need to implement some sort
of geo-engineering to maintain comfortable lifestyles. What the UK does is
essentially irrelevant and, arguably, truncating HS2 at Handsacre Junction
might actually make a tiny, irrelevant net reduction in the UK's future CO2
emissions.

On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Roland was right.
>
>"In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>
>https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts

This was written before the recent discovery that Antarctic sea ice is
melting far more quickly than expected. In fact 2023 has been an
eye-opener with several Holy Shit moments.

On 29/10/2023 20:30, Recliner wrote:
> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>>>> in line.
>>>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>>>> Path:
>>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>>>>> Newsgroups: uk.railway
>>>>> Subject: Re: It gets no better
>>>>> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 +0000
>>>>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>>>>> Lines: 44
>>>>> Message-ID: <uhlg95$3rop3$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>> References: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>> Injection-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
>>>>> posting-host="8487b2de2ec2206561cf6cbb113f247b";
>>>>>      logging-data="4055843";
>>>>> mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";
>>>>> posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19eGFASinqjrQyh7GtwNT2414Or8Wk+uB0="
>>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>>>>>   Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
>>>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:PcubsMmSHHDNOSdJPRNaGj8oU5E=
>>>>> Content-Language: en-GB
>>>>> In-Reply-To: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.railway:660957
>>>>>  On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>
>>>>>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>
>>>>> money is issue.
>>>>>  Who will pay and for exactly what.  Even if it does get there
>>>>> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
>>>>> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge.  And
>>>>> to only providing a minimal service.  Much enthusiasm for
>>>>> East-West SuperHighway.
>>>>>  PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
>>>>> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
>>>>> policies.  Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
>>>>> anticipate what PM will say next.  One man band territory.
>>>>>  Chris
>>>>
>>>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>>>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>>>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>>>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>>>> water.
>>>
>>> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
>>> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
>>> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
>>> above current sea level.
>>
>> That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>> take up to 50-100 years)
>
> Roland was right.
>
> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>
> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts

We both seem to be right to some extent, a 6 inch rise is predicted
under 2021 forecasts - but they might be a big underestimate if/when the
entire East Antarctic were to melt.

Also, I misheard the feasible rise, which is 5 metres (over 15 feet),
not 15 metres, and it would take until about 2500 to reach that level.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/62502270

On 29/10/2023 20:30, Recliner wrote:
> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>>>> in line.
>>>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>>>> Path:
>>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>>>>> Newsgroups: uk.railway
>>>>> Subject: Re: It gets no better

>>>>>>
>>>>>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>
>>>>> money is issue.
>>>>>  Who will pay and for exactly what.  Even if it does get there
>>>>> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
>>>>> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge.  And
>>>>> to only providing a minimal service.  Much enthusiasm for
>>>>> East-West SuperHighway.
>>>>>  PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
>>>>> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
>>>>> policies.  Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
>>>>> anticipate what PM will say next.  One man band territory.
>>>>>  Chris
>>>>
>>>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>>>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>>>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>>>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>>>> water.
>>>
>>> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
>>> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
>>> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
>>> above current sea level.
>>
>> That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>> take up to 50-100 years)
>
> Roland was right.
>
> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>
> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts

We both seem to be right to some extent, a 6 inch rise is predicted
under 2021 forecasts - but they might be a big underestimate if/when the
entire East Antarctic ice sheets were to melt.

Also, I misheard the feasible rise, which is 5 metres (over 15 feet),
not 15 metres, and it would take until about 2500 to reach that level.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/62502270

In message <uhmfdu$25t3$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:30:54 on Sun, 29 Oct
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>>>> in line.
>>>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>>>> Path:
>>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>>>>> Newsgroups: uk.railway
>>>>> Subject: Re: It gets no better
>>>>> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 +0000
>>>>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>>>>> Lines: 44
>>>>> Message-ID: <uhlg95$3rop3$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>> References: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>> Injection-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
>>>>> posting-host="8487b2de2ec2206561cf6cbb113f247b";
>>>>>      logging-data="4055843";
>>>>> mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";
>>>>> posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19eGFASinqjrQyh7GtwNT2414Or8Wk+uB0="
>>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>>>>>   Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
>>>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:PcubsMmSHHDNOSdJPRNaGj8oU5E=
>>>>> Content-Language: en-GB
>>>>> In-Reply-To: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.railway:660957
>>>>>  On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>
>>>>>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>
>>>>> money is issue.
>>>>>  Who will pay and for exactly what.  Even if it does get there
>>>>> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
>>>>> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge.  And
>>>>> to only providing a minimal service.  Much enthusiasm for
>>>>> East-West SuperHighway.
>>>>>  PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
>>>>> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
>>>>> policies.  Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
>>>>> anticipate what PM will say next.  One man band territory.
>>>>>  Chris
>>>>
>>>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>>>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>>>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>>>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>>>> water.
>>>
>>> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
>>> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
>>> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
>>> above current sea level.
>>
>> That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>> take up to 50-100 years)
>
>Roland was right.

Thank you!

>"In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>
>https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts

I remember looking at the local maps to see whether any roads would be
impassable, or more than a handful of properties flooded. Apparently
not, although the railway line was at risk.

Meanwhile, my new SUV can wade through <drumroll> 50cm, so that's OK.
--
Roland Perry

On 30/10/2023 09:24, Bevan Price wrote:
> Also, I misheard the feasible rise, which is 5 metres (over 15 feet),
> not 15 metres, and it would take until about 2500 to reach that level.

Even then, it wouldnt reach the levels of the distant past. Humans think
they are here forever, we're not, we'll be wiped out, just as has
happened times before, either a meteorite smash, global warming or a
virus (which wont kill all humans, but reduce the population
dramatically), or any other 'natural' disaster.
We can slow the warming down, but in the big scheme of things, we're all
going to die.

--
Remove the '+' and replace with 'plus' to reply by email

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Roland was right.
>>
>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>
>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>
> This was written before the recent discovery that Antarctic sea ice is
> melting far more quickly than expected. In fact 2023 has been an
> eye-opener with several Holy Shit moments.
>

This report is from April this year:

A special report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says we
can expect the oceans to rise between 10 and 30 inches (26 to 77
centimeters) by 2100 with temperatures warming 1.5 °C. That’s enough to
seriously affect many of the cities along the U.S. East Coast. Another
analysis based on NASA and European data skewed toward the higher end of
that range, predicting a rise of 26 inches (65 centimeters) by the end of
this century if the current trajectory continues.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/sea-level-rise-1

Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 29/10/2023 20:30, Recliner wrote:
>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>>>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>>>>> in line.
>>>>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>>>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>>>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>>>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>>>>> Path:
>>>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>>>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>>>>>> Newsgroups: uk.railway
>>>>>> Subject: Re: It gets no better
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 +0000
>>>>>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>>>>>> Lines: 44
>>>>>> Message-ID: <uhlg95$3rop3$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>> References: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>> Injection-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
>>>>>> posting-host="8487b2de2ec2206561cf6cbb113f247b";
>>>>>>      logging-data="4055843";
>>>>>> mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";
>>>>>> posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19eGFASinqjrQyh7GtwNT2414Or8Wk+uB0="
>>>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>>>>>>   Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
>>>>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:PcubsMmSHHDNOSdJPRNaGj8oU5E=
>>>>>> Content-Language: en-GB
>>>>>> In-Reply-To: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.railway:660957
>>>>>>  On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> money is issue.
>>>>>>  Who will pay and for exactly what.  Even if it does get there
>>>>>> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
>>>>>> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge.  And
>>>>>> to only providing a minimal service.  Much enthusiasm for
>>>>>> East-West SuperHighway.
>>>>>>  PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
>>>>>> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
>>>>>> policies.  Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
>>>>>> anticipate what PM will say next.  One man band territory.
>>>>>>  Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>>>>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>>>>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>>>>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>>>>> water.
>>>>
>>>> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
>>>> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
>>>> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
>>>> above current sea level.
>>>
>>> That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>>> take up to 50-100 years)
>>
>> Roland was right.
>>
>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>
>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>
> We both seem to be right to some extent, a 6 inch rise is predicted
> under 2021 forecasts - but they might be a big underestimate if/when the
> entire East Antarctic were to melt.

I suspect you're getting your units mixed up *again* — did you mean 6 ft?

>
> Also, I misheard the feasible rise, which is 5 metres (over 15 feet),
> not 15 metres, and it would take until about 2500 to reach that level.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/62502270
>
>

That's why Roland was right and you were wrong. You said:

>>>That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>>> take up to 50-100 years)

In fact, in the next 50-100 years, sea levels around Britain are likely to
rise between 0.4m and 1m, in the range Roland cited, not the, "most of East
Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea water,"
you were suggesting by the end of this century.

It's wolf-crying, easily-disproved alarmist predictions like that which
empower the climate change deniers to claim that all the predictions of
global warming are lies.

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Roland was right.
>>
>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>
>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>
> This was written before the recent discovery that Antarctic sea ice is
> melting far more quickly than expected. In fact 2023 has been an
> eye-opener with several Holy Shit moments.
>

This report is from April this year:

A special report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says we
can expect the oceans to rise between 10 and 30 inches (26 to 77
centimeters) by 2100 with temperatures warming 1.5 °C. That’s enough to
seriously affect many of the cities along the U.S. East Coast. Another
analysis based on NASA and European data skewed toward the higher end of
that range, predicting a rise of 26 inches (65 centimeters) by the end of
this century if the current trajectory continues.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/sea-level-rise-1

On 30/10/2023 09:24, Bevan Price wrote:
> Also, I misheard the feasible rise, which is 5 metres (over 15 feet),
> not 15 metres, and it would take until about 2500 to reach that level.

Even then, it wouldnt reach the levels of the distant past. Humans think
they are here forever, we're not, we'll be wiped out, just as has
happened times before, either a meteorite smash, global warming or a
virus (which wont kill all humans, but reduce the population
dramatically), or any other 'natural' disaster.
We can slow the warming down, but in the big scheme of things, we're all
going to die.

--
Remove the '+' and replace with 'plus' to reply by email

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Roland was right.
>>
>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>
>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>
> This was written before the recent discovery that Antarctic sea ice is
> melting far more quickly than expected. In fact 2023 has been an
> eye-opener with several Holy Shit moments.
>

This report is from April this year:

A special report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says we
can expect the oceans to rise between 10 and 30 inches (26 to 77
centimeters) by 2100 with temperatures warming 1.5 °C. That’s enough to
seriously affect many of the cities along the U.S. East Coast. Another
analysis based on NASA and European data skewed toward the higher end of
that range, predicting a rise of 26 inches (65 centimeters) by the end of
this century if the current trajectory continues.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/sea-level-rise-1

Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 29/10/2023 20:30, Recliner wrote:
>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>>>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>>>>> in line.
>>>>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>>>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>>>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>>>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>>>>> Path:
>>>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>>>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>>>>>> Newsgroups: uk.railway
>>>>>> Subject: Re: It gets no better
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 +0000
>>>>>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>>>>>> Lines: 44
>>>>>> Message-ID: <uhlg95$3rop3$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>> References: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>> Injection-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
>>>>>> posting-host="8487b2de2ec2206561cf6cbb113f247b";
>>>>>>      logging-data="4055843";
>>>>>> mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";
>>>>>> posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19eGFASinqjrQyh7GtwNT2414Or8Wk+uB0="
>>>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>>>>>>   Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
>>>>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:PcubsMmSHHDNOSdJPRNaGj8oU5E=
>>>>>> Content-Language: en-GB
>>>>>> In-Reply-To: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.railway:660957
>>>>>>  On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> money is issue.
>>>>>>  Who will pay and for exactly what.  Even if it does get there
>>>>>> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
>>>>>> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge.  And
>>>>>> to only providing a minimal service.  Much enthusiasm for
>>>>>> East-West SuperHighway.
>>>>>>  PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
>>>>>> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
>>>>>> policies.  Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
>>>>>> anticipate what PM will say next.  One man band territory.
>>>>>>  Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>>>>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>>>>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>>>>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>>>>> water.
>>>>
>>>> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
>>>> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
>>>> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
>>>> above current sea level.
>>>
>>> That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>>> take up to 50-100 years)
>>
>> Roland was right.
>>
>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>
>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>
> We both seem to be right to some extent, a 6 inch rise is predicted
> under 2021 forecasts - but they might be a big underestimate if/when the
> entire East Antarctic were to melt.

I suspect you're getting your units mixed up *again* — did you mean 6 ft?

>
> Also, I misheard the feasible rise, which is 5 metres (over 15 feet),
> not 15 metres, and it would take until about 2500 to reach that level.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/62502270
>
>

That's why Roland was right and you were wrong. You said:

>>>That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>>> take up to 50-100 years)

In fact, in the next 50-100 years, sea levels around Britain are likely to
rise between 0.4m and 1m, in the range Roland cited, not the, "most of East
Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea water,"
you were suggesting by the end of this century.

It's wolf-crying, easily-disproved alarmist predictions like that which
empower the climate change deniers to claim that all the predictions of
global warming are lies.

Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> wrote:
> On 30/10/2023 09:24, Bevan Price wrote:
>> Also, I misheard the feasible rise, which is 5 metres (over 15 feet),
>> not 15 metres, and it would take until about 2500 to reach that level.
>
> Even then, it wouldnt reach the levels of the distant past. Humans think
> they are here forever, we're not, we'll be wiped out, just as has
> happened times before, either a meteorite smash, global warming or a
> virus (which wont kill all humans, but reduce the population
> dramatically), or any other 'natural' disaster.
> We can slow the warming down, but in the big scheme of things, we're all
> going to die.
>

Yes, and a high tech civilisation like ours can make that happen so much
more quickly than nature alone. We will run out of key resources, or have
nuclear wars, or poison the atmosphere or create human-hating AI systems or
find ingenious other ways of accelerating our inevitable demise. The planet
will trundle along quite happily without us.

Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 29/10/2023 20:30, Recliner wrote:
>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>>>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>>>>> in line.
>>>>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>>>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>>>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>>>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>>>>> Path:
>>>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>>>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>>>>>> Newsgroups: uk.railway
>>>>>> Subject: Re: It gets no better
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 +0000
>>>>>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>>>>>> Lines: 44
>>>>>> Message-ID: <uhlg95$3rop3$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>> References: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>> Injection-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
>>>>>> posting-host="8487b2de2ec2206561cf6cbb113f247b";
>>>>>>      logging-data="4055843";
>>>>>> mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";
>>>>>> posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19eGFASinqjrQyh7GtwNT2414Or8Wk+uB0="
>>>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>>>>>>   Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
>>>>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:PcubsMmSHHDNOSdJPRNaGj8oU5E=
>>>>>> Content-Language: en-GB
>>>>>> In-Reply-To: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.railway:660957
>>>>>>  On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> money is issue.
>>>>>>  Who will pay and for exactly what.  Even if it does get there
>>>>>> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
>>>>>> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge.  And
>>>>>> to only providing a minimal service.  Much enthusiasm for
>>>>>> East-West SuperHighway.
>>>>>>  PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
>>>>>> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
>>>>>> policies.  Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
>>>>>> anticipate what PM will say next.  One man band territory.
>>>>>>  Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>>>>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>>>>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>>>>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>>>>> water.
>>>>
>>>> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
>>>> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
>>>> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
>>>> above current sea level.
>>>
>>> That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>>> take up to 50-100 years)
>>
>> Roland was right.
>>
>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>
>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>
> We both seem to be right to some extent, a 6 inch rise is predicted
> under 2021 forecasts - but they might be a big underestimate if/when the
> entire East Antarctic were to melt.

I suspect you're getting your units mixed up *again* — did you mean 6 ft?

>
> Also, I misheard the feasible rise, which is 5 metres (over 15 feet),
> not 15 metres, and it would take until about 2500 to reach that level.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/62502270
>
>

That's why Roland was right and you were wrong. You said:

>>>That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>>> take up to 50-100 years)

In fact, in the next 50-100 years, sea levels around Britain are likely to
rise between 0.4m and 1m, in the range Roland cited, not the, "most of East
Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea water,"
you were suggesting by the end of this century.

It's wolf-crying, easily-disproved alarmist predictions like that which
empower the climate change deniers to claim that all the predictions of
global warming are lies.

On 30/10/2023 02:52, Recliner wrote:
> Global warming is real, more than 100% man-made, and the consequences are
> already visible, slightly less than the consensus climate change models.
> But it does no good to cite or invent hyperbolic, ridiculously exaggerated
> predictions that simply discredit the genuine, justified fears.
>
> Unfortunately, I don't think the world will achieve net zero carbon within
> the next few decades, so our descendants will need to implement some sort
> of geo-engineering to maintain comfortable lifestyles. What the UK does is
> essentially irrelevant and, arguably, truncating HS2 at Handsacre Junction
> might actually make a tiny reduction in our future CO2 emissions.

Four of the 20 most vulnerable cities are in China, giving some hope:
they can't just sit back and watch their smoke devour the evil west.
<https://chinadialogue.net/en/cities/2578-the-fragile-city/>

Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
> On 30/10/2023 02:52, Recliner wrote:
>> Global warming is real, more than 100% man-made, and the consequences are
>> already visible, slightly less than the consensus climate change models.
>> But it does no good to cite or invent hyperbolic, ridiculously exaggerated
>> predictions that simply discredit the genuine, justified fears.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I don't think the world will achieve net zero carbon within
>> the next few decades, so our descendants will need to implement some sort
>> of geo-engineering to maintain comfortable lifestyles. What the UK does is
>> essentially irrelevant and, arguably, truncating HS2 at Handsacre Junction
>> might actually make a tiny reduction in our future CO2 emissions.
>
> Four of the 20 most vulnerable cities are in China, giving some hope:
> they can't just sit back and watch their smoke devour the evil west.
> <https://chinadialogue.net/en/cities/2578-the-fragile-city/>
>

Yes, China has woken up, but still keeps building new coal power stations.
And India seems relatively unconcerned. And if/when Africa gets more
affluent, the expanding new middle-classes will want aircon and nice cars,
just like their peers in the North.