Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uhmfdu$25t3$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:30:54 on Sun, 29 Oct
> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>>>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>>>>> in line.
>>>>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>>>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>>>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>>>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>>>>> Path:
>>>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>>>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>>>>>> Newsgroups: uk.railway
>>>>>> Subject: Re: It gets no better
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 +0000
>>>>>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>>>>>> Lines: 44
>>>>>> Message-ID: <uhlg95$3rop3$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>> References: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>> Injection-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
>>>>>> posting-host="8487b2de2ec2206561cf6cbb113f247b";
>>>>>>      logging-data="4055843";
>>>>>> mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";
>>>>>> posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19eGFASinqjrQyh7GtwNT2414Or8Wk+uB0="
>>>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>>>>>>   Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
>>>>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:PcubsMmSHHDNOSdJPRNaGj8oU5E=
>>>>>> Content-Language: en-GB
>>>>>> In-Reply-To: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.railway:660957
>>>>>>  On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> money is issue.
>>>>>>  Who will pay and for exactly what.  Even if it does get there
>>>>>> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
>>>>>> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge.  And
>>>>>> to only providing a minimal service.  Much enthusiasm for
>>>>>> East-West SuperHighway.
>>>>>>  PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
>>>>>> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
>>>>>> policies.  Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
>>>>>> anticipate what PM will say next.  One man band territory.
>>>>>>  Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>>>>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>>>>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>>>>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>>>>> water.
>>>>
>>>> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
>>>> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
>>>> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
>>>> above current sea level.
>>>
>>> That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>>> take up to 50-100 years)
>>
>> Roland was right.
>
> Thank you!
>
>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>
>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>
> I remember looking at the local maps to see whether any roads would be
> impassable, or more than a handful of properties flooded. Apparently
> not, although the railway line was at risk.
>
> Meanwhile, my new SUV can wade through <drumroll> 50cm, so that's OK.

I hope it can handle waves and tides!

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uhtlfd$1kt1f$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:57:01 on Wed, 1 Nov
> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>> On 01/11/2023 12:55, Certes wrote:
>>> On 01/11/2023 12:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <uhtdb1$1jgcu$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:38:09 on Wed, 1 Nov
>>>> 2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>>  But even when parliament is sitting, it's not been very active
>>>>>> lately in  terms of passing new legislation. I think this tired
>>>>>> government has simply  run out of things it wants to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a good thing.  New legislation almost invariably makes things
>>>>> worse.  If they continue to do nothing, I may even vote for them.
>>>>
>>>> Worse for criminals perhaps. Today's hot topic is whether or not it
>>>> should be illegal to scrape photos of *your* children (other people's
>>>> children presumably being irrelevant) from social media, un-clothe
>>>> them using AI photo-processing apps, add someone poking whatever into
>>>> an orifice, then sell them on the dark web for perverts to wank over.
>
>>> Today's hot topic is whether the government can increase its
>>> surveillance of our internet use by requiring ID for everyday
>>> activities such as social media use, with a "think of the children"
>>> call to action tacked on to make it more palatable.
>>
>> I'm very protective of my ID and most certainly do not trust social
>> media companies with copies of it. I would sooner terminate my use of
>> their services.
>
> "Your ID" is a complex concept. I've been doing some CHAPs transfers
> recently, and I'm absolutely 100% sure the bank would not accept my
> Twitter-handle and password as proof I was who I claimed to be.
>
>> What interests me is that so many organisations seem to be very
>> dependent on the outfit formally known as Twitter for customer
>> communication and I wonder what plans they have if the outfit is unable
>> to provide services in various markets. Or all markets come to that.
>
> Commercial organisations have been fleeing Twitter for quite some time.
> They are probably more interested in Facebook and TikTok this week.
>
> They are also probably quite relieved that aggrieved customers sounding
> off on Twitter will be listened to by fewer and fewer people.

Presumably the advertiser-flight is why every third or fourth eX-tweet I
see on eX-Twitter is the same advert.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 01/11/2023 08:25, Roland Perry wrote:

>> Other people also claiming to have inside info have said some stuff
>> doesn't reflect what is going on.
>
> I refer to such persons as "random bloggers", although people less
> diplomatic might suggest 'purveyors of fake news'. They could even be a
> deliberate sock-puppet. There's so much of it about you really can't
> trust a single thing unless fact-checked.

Exactly.

--
Arthur Figgis

On 01/11/2023 18:15, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uhtlfd$1kt1f$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:57:01 on Wed, 1 Nov
>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>> On 01/11/2023 12:55, Certes wrote:
>>>> On 01/11/2023 12:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <uhtdb1$1jgcu$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:38:09 on Wed, 1 Nov
>>>>> 2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>>>>> Someone else said this bit but the attribution fell off:
>>>>>>>  But even when parliament is sitting, it's not been very active
>>>>>>> lately in  terms of passing new legislation. I think this tired
>>>>>>> government has simply  run out of things it wants to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a good thing.  New legislation almost invariably makes things
>>>>>> worse.  If they continue to do nothing, I may even vote for them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Worse for criminals perhaps. Today's hot topic is whether or not it
>>>>> should be illegal to scrape photos of *your* children (other people's
>>>>> children presumably being irrelevant) from social media, un-clothe
>>>>> them using AI photo-processing apps, add someone poking whatever into
>>>>> an orifice, then sell them on the dark web for perverts to wank over.
>>
>>>> Today's hot topic is whether the government can increase its
>>>> surveillance of our internet use by requiring ID for everyday
>>>> activities such as social media use, with a "think of the children"
>>>> call to action tacked on to make it more palatable.
>>>
>>> I'm very protective of my ID and most certainly do not trust social
>>> media companies with copies of it. I would sooner terminate my use of
>>> their services.
>>
>> "Your ID" is a complex concept. I've been doing some CHAPs transfers
>> recently, and I'm absolutely 100% sure the bank would not accept my
>> Twitter-handle and password as proof I was who I claimed to be.
>>
>>> What interests me is that so many organisations seem to be very
>>> dependent on the outfit formally known as Twitter for customer
>>> communication and I wonder what plans they have if the outfit is unable
>>> to provide services in various markets. Or all markets come to that.
>>
>> Commercial organisations have been fleeing Twitter for quite some time.
>> They are probably more interested in Facebook and TikTok this week.
>>
>> They are also probably quite relieved that aggrieved customers sounding
>> off on Twitter will be listened to by fewer and fewer people.
>
> Presumably the advertiser-flight is why every third or fourth eX-tweet I
> see on eX-Twitter is the same advert.

Musk bought the company a year ago for $44 billion. It is now valued at
$19 billion, which still seems generous.

In message <uhu48n$1nore$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:09:27 on Wed, 1 Nov
2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uhmfdu$25t3$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:30:54 on Sun, 29 Oct
>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>>>>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>>>>>> in line.
>>>>>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>>>>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>>>>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>>>>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>>>>>> Path:
>>>>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>>>>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>>>>>>> Newsgroups: uk.railway
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: It gets no better
>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 +0000
>>>>>>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>>>>>>> Lines: 44
>>>>>>> Message-ID: <uhlg95$3rop3$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>> References: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>>> Injection-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>> Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
>>>>>>> posting-host="8487b2de2ec2206561cf6cbb113f247b";
>>>>>>>      logging-data="4055843";
>>>>>>> mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";
>>>>>>> posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19eGFASinqjrQyh7GtwNT2414Or8Wk+uB0="
>>>>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>>>>>>>   Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
>>>>>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:PcubsMmSHHDNOSdJPRNaGj8oU5E=
>>>>>>> Content-Language: en-GB
>>>>>>> In-Reply-To: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.railway:660957
>>>>>>>  On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> money is issue.
>>>>>>>  Who will pay and for exactly what.  Even if it does get there
>>>>>>> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
>>>>>>> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge.  And
>>>>>>> to only providing a minimal service.  Much enthusiasm for
>>>>>>> East-West SuperHighway.
>>>>>>>  PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
>>>>>>> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
>>>>>>> policies.  Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
>>>>>>> anticipate what PM will say next.  One man band territory.
>>>>>>>  Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>>>>>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>>>>>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>>>>>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>>>>>> water.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
>>>>> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
>>>>> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
>>>>> above current sea level.
>>>>
>>>> That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>>>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>>>> take up to 50-100 years)
>>>
>>> Roland was right.
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>>
>>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>>
>> I remember looking at the local maps to see whether any roads would be
>> impassable, or more than a handful of properties flooded. Apparently
>> not, although the railway line was at risk.
>>
>> Meanwhile, my new SUV can wade through <drumroll> 50cm, so that's OK.
>
>I hope it can handle waves and tides!

I'm not sure how many of either are going to be presenting themselves 40
miles inland.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <uhu48n$1nore$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:09:27 on Wed, 1 Nov
> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uhmfdu$25t3$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:30:54 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>>>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>>>>>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>>>>>>> in line.
>>>>>>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>>>>>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>>>>>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>>>>>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>>>>>>> Path:
>>>>>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>>>>>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: uk.railway
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: It gets no better
>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 +0000
>>>>>>>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>>>>>>>> Lines: 44
>>>>>>>> Message-ID: <uhlg95$3rop3$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>>> References: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>>>> Injection-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>>> Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
>>>>>>>> posting-host="8487b2de2ec2206561cf6cbb113f247b";
>>>>>>>>      logging-data="4055843";
>>>>>>>> mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";
>>>>>>>> posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19eGFASinqjrQyh7GtwNT2414Or8Wk+uB0="
>>>>>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>>>>>>>>   Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
>>>>>>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:PcubsMmSHHDNOSdJPRNaGj8oU5E=
>>>>>>>> Content-Language: en-GB
>>>>>>>> In-Reply-To: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.railway:660957
>>>>>>>>  On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> money is issue.
>>>>>>>>  Who will pay and for exactly what.  Even if it does get there
>>>>>>>> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
>>>>>>>> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge.  And
>>>>>>>> to only providing a minimal service.  Much enthusiasm for
>>>>>>>> East-West SuperHighway.
>>>>>>>>  PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
>>>>>>>> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
>>>>>>>> policies.  Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
>>>>>>>> anticipate what PM will say next.  One man band territory.
>>>>>>>>  Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>>>>>>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>>>>>>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>>>>>>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>>>>>>> water.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
>>>>>> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
>>>>>> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
>>>>>> above current sea level.
>>>>>
>>>>> That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>>>>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>>>>> take up to 50-100 years)
>>>>
>>>> Roland was right.
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>>>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>>>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>>>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>>>
>>>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>>>
>>> I remember looking at the local maps to see whether any roads would be
>>> impassable, or more than a handful of properties flooded. Apparently
>>> not, although the railway line was at risk.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, my new SUV can wade through <drumroll> 50cm, so that's OK.
>>
>> I hope it can handle waves and tides!
>
> I'm not sure how many of either are going to be presenting themselves 40
> miles inland.

Do you think you’ll still be 40 miles inland?

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 01/11/2023 18:24, Certes wrote:
> On 01/11/2023 18:15, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uhtlfd$1kt1f$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:57:01 on Wed, 1 Nov
>>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 01/11/2023 12:55, Certes wrote:
>>>>> On 01/11/2023 12:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uhtdb1$1jgcu$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:38:09 on Wed, 1 Nov
>>>>>> 2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>>>>>> Someone else said this bit but the attribution fell off:
>>>>>>>>   But even when parliament is sitting, it's not been very active
>>>>>>>> lately in  terms of passing new legislation. I think this tired
>>>>>>>> government has simply  run out of things it wants to do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a good thing.  New legislation almost invariably makes
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> worse.  If they continue to do nothing, I may even vote for them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Worse for criminals perhaps. Today's hot topic is whether or not it
>>>>>> should be illegal to scrape photos of *your* children (other people's
>>>>>> children presumably being irrelevant) from social media, un-clothe
>>>>>> them using AI photo-processing apps, add someone poking whatever into
>>>>>> an orifice, then sell them on the dark web for perverts to wank over.
>>>
>>>>> Today's hot topic is whether the government can increase its
>>>>> surveillance of our internet use by requiring ID for everyday
>>>>> activities such as social media use, with a "think of the children"
>>>>> call to action tacked on to make it more palatable.
>>>>
>>>> I'm very protective of my ID and most certainly do not trust social
>>>> media companies with copies of it.  I would sooner terminate my use  of
>>>> their services.
>>>
>>> "Your ID" is a complex concept. I've been doing some CHAPs transfers
>>> recently, and I'm absolutely 100% sure the bank would not accept my
>>> Twitter-handle and password as proof I was who I claimed to be.
>>>
>>>> What interests me is that so many organisations seem to be very
>>>> dependent on the outfit formally known as Twitter for customer
>>>> communication and I wonder what plans they have if the outfit is unable
>>>> to provide services in various markets.  Or all markets come to that.
>>>
>>> Commercial organisations have been fleeing Twitter for quite some time.
>>> They are probably more interested in Facebook and TikTok this week.
>>>
>>> They are also probably quite relieved that aggrieved customers sounding
>>> off on Twitter will be listened to by fewer and fewer people.
>>
>> Presumably the advertiser-flight is why every third or fourth eX-tweet I
>> see on eX-Twitter is the same advert.
>
> Musk bought the company a year ago for $44 billion.  It is now valued at
> $19 billion, which still seems generous.
Apart from that his regularity problems from a number of administrations
are increasing. Now that the UK "has taken back control" this doesn't
include here as far as I know.

On 01/11/2023 19:37, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uhu48n$1nore$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:09:27 on Wed, 1 Nov
>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <uhmfdu$25t3$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:30:54 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>>>>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>>>>>>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>>>>>>>> in line.
>>>>>>>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>>>>>>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>>>>>>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>>>>>>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>>>>>>>> Path:
>>>>>>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>>>>>>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: uk.railway
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: It gets no better
>>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 +0000
>>>>>>>>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>>>>>>>>> Lines: 44
>>>>>>>>> Message-ID: <uhlg95$3rop3$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>>>> References: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>>>>> Injection-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>>>> Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
>>>>>>>>> posting-host="8487b2de2ec2206561cf6cbb113f247b";
>>>>>>>>>      logging-data="4055843";
>>>>>>>>> mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";
>>>>>>>>> posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19eGFASinqjrQyh7GtwNT2414Or8Wk+uB0="
>>>>>>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>>>>>>>>>   Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
>>>>>>>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:PcubsMmSHHDNOSdJPRNaGj8oU5E=
>>>>>>>>> Content-Language: en-GB
>>>>>>>>> In-Reply-To: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>>>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.railway:660957
>>>>>>>>>  On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> money is issue.
>>>>>>>>>  Who will pay and for exactly what.  Even if it does get there
>>>>>>>>> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
>>>>>>>>> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge.  And
>>>>>>>>> to only providing a minimal service.  Much enthusiasm for
>>>>>>>>> East-West SuperHighway.
>>>>>>>>>  PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
>>>>>>>>> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
>>>>>>>>> policies.  Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
>>>>>>>>> anticipate what PM will say next.  One man band territory.
>>>>>>>>>  Chris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>>>>>>>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>>>>>>>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>>>>>>>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>>>>>>>> water.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
>>>>>>> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
>>>>>>> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
>>>>>>> above current sea level.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>>>>>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>>>>>> take up to 50-100 years)
>>>>>
>>>>> Roland was right.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you!
>>>>
>>>>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>>>>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>>>>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>>>>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>>>>
>>>> I remember looking at the local maps to see whether any roads would be
>>>> impassable, or more than a handful of properties flooded. Apparently
>>>> not, although the railway line was at risk.
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile, my new SUV can wade through <drumroll> 50cm, so that's OK.
>>>
>>> I hope it can handle waves and tides!
>>
>> I'm not sure how many of either are going to be presenting themselves 40
>> miles inland.
>
> Do you think you’ll still be 40 miles inland?

Depending on where he lives Roland might find his plot will be under the
North Sea. So will Ely railway station. Rail Replacement Boats anyone?

Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 01/11/2023 19:37, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uhu48n$1nore$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:09:27 on Wed, 1 Nov
>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <uhmfdu$25t3$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:30:54 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 29/10/2023 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <uhm0ae$3v702$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:13:02 on Sun, 29 Oct
>>>>>>>> 2023, Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On 29/10/2023 11:39, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>>>>>  Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>>>>>  HS2 is still up in the air so to speak.  Nobody knows what the PM
>>>>>>>>>> is going to say next and when he does Ministers scramble to fall
>>>>>>>>>> in line.
>>>>>>>>>>  Even if it’s ridiculous guff Ministers get behind it.  Determined
>>>>>>>>>> to sell land off regardless. Determined to cut down HS2 Ph1 as
>>>>>>>>>> much as possible. PM still determined that getting it to Euston
>>>>>>>>>> should not happen if at all possible. Hunt wants it there but
>>>>>>>>>> Path:
>>>>>>>>>> eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>>>>>>>>> From: Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: uk.railway
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: It gets no better
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 +0000
>>>>>>>>>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>>>>>>>>>> Lines: 44
>>>>>>>>>> Message-ID: <uhlg95$3rop3$1@dont-email.me>
>>>>>>>>>> References: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>>>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>>>>>> Injection-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 11:39:17 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>>>>> Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
>>>>>>>>>> posting-host="8487b2de2ec2206561cf6cbb113f247b";
>>>>>>>>>>      logging-data="4055843";
>>>>>>>>>> mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";
>>>>>>>>>> posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19eGFASinqjrQyh7GtwNT2414Or8Wk+uB0="
>>>>>>>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
>>>>>>>>>>   Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1
>>>>>>>>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:PcubsMmSHHDNOSdJPRNaGj8oU5E=
>>>>>>>>>> Content-Language: en-GB
>>>>>>>>>> In-Reply-To: <irdsji12hu077iq9aht19v2skkhp5ukaqq@4ax.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.railway:660957
>>>>>>>>>>  On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Feedback from Fridays lunch with friends from
>>>>>>>>>>> DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office.  Couple of other friends from HO &
>>>>>>>>>>> FCDO also there.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> money is issue.
>>>>>>>>>>  Who will pay and for exactly what.  Even if it does get there
>>>>>>>>>> will a reduced development Euston station cope. East-West Rail.
>>>>>>>>>> Ministers looking at ways to stop it getting to Cambridge.  And
>>>>>>>>>> to only providing a minimal service.  Much enthusiasm for
>>>>>>>>>> East-West SuperHighway.
>>>>>>>>>>  PM rumoured to be preparing big pro-road announcements in lead up
>>>>>>>>>> to GE as well as other anti-environmental and anti net-zero
>>>>>>>>>> policies.  Hard to assess accuracy as nobody seems able to
>>>>>>>>>> anticipate what PM will say next.  One man band territory.
>>>>>>>>>>  Chris
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Surely even he is not so stupid as to abandon nett-zero?
>>>>>>>>> Of course, anyone living now who is against nett zero will be beyond
>>>>>>>>> receiving blame when all the Antarctic ice has gone - and when most of
>>>>>>>>> East Anglia (and other coastal areas) lie beneath 15-20 metres of sea
>>>>>>>>> water.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even the most pessimistic predictions are more like some parts being
>>>>>>>> beneath 50cm of water. Not that this wouldn't be rather inconvenient for
>>>>>>>> infrastructure like the Fen Line, much of which is only about that high
>>>>>>>> above current sea level.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That 50cm was not the version I heard recently on radio (forget which
>>>>>>> programme) if/when the entire Antarctic ice shelf melts (which might
>>>>>>> take up to 50-100 years)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roland was right.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>
>>>>>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>>>>>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>>>>>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>>>>>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember looking at the local maps to see whether any roads would be
>>>>> impassable, or more than a handful of properties flooded. Apparently
>>>>> not, although the railway line was at risk.
>>>>>
>>>>> Meanwhile, my new SUV can wade through <drumroll> 50cm, so that's OK.
>>>>
>>>> I hope it can handle waves and tides!
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how many of either are going to be presenting themselves 40
>>> miles inland.
>>
>> Do you think you’ll still be 40 miles inland?
>
> Depending on where he lives Roland might find his plot will be under the
> North Sea. So will Ely railway station. Rail Replacement Boats anyone?

I know someone who lives not far from Roland and I think his house is
techically at 0’ AMSL. Its definitely below the level of the rivers. I
think Roland lives on the Isle of Ely, though, so he’ll probably be OK.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <uhtlfd$1kt1f$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:57:01 on Wed, 1 Nov
>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>> On 01/11/2023 12:55, Certes wrote:
>>>> On 01/11/2023 12:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <uhtdb1$1jgcu$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:38:09 on Wed, 1 Nov
>>>>> 2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  But even when parliament is sitting, it's not been very active
>>>>>>> lately in  terms of passing new legislation. I think this tired
>>>>>>> government has simply  run out of things it wants to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a good thing.  New legislation almost invariably makes things
>>>>>> worse.  If they continue to do nothing, I may even vote for them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Worse for criminals perhaps. Today's hot topic is whether or not it
>>>>> should be illegal to scrape photos of *your* children (other people's
>>>>> children presumably being irrelevant) from social media, un-clothe
>>>>> them using AI photo-processing apps, add someone poking whatever into
>>>>> an orifice, then sell them on the dark web for perverts to wank over.
>>
>>>> Today's hot topic is whether the government can increase its
>>>> surveillance of our internet use by requiring ID for everyday
>>>> activities such as social media use, with a "think of the children"
>>>> call to action tacked on to make it more palatable.
>>>
>>> I'm very protective of my ID and most certainly do not trust social
>>> media companies with copies of it. I would sooner terminate my use of
>>> their services.
>>
>> "Your ID" is a complex concept. I've been doing some CHAPs transfers
>> recently, and I'm absolutely 100% sure the bank would not accept my
>> Twitter-handle and password as proof I was who I claimed to be.
>>
>>> What interests me is that so many organisations seem to be very
>>> dependent on the outfit formally known as Twitter for customer
>>> communication and I wonder what plans they have if the outfit is unable
>>> to provide services in various markets. Or all markets come to that.
>>
>> Commercial organisations have been fleeing Twitter for quite some time.
>> They are probably more interested in Facebook and TikTok this week.
>>
>> They are also probably quite relieved that aggrieved customers sounding
>> off on Twitter will be listened to by fewer and fewer people.
>
> Presumably the advertiser-flight is why every third or fourth eX-tweet I
> see on eX-Twitter is the same advert.
>

The ads are now from much more obscure companies, as respected brands are
steering clear. Those obscure companies are probably paying much less per
view.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <uhtlfd$1kt1f$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:57:01 on Wed, 1 Nov
>>> 2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 01/11/2023 12:55, Certes wrote:
>>>>> On 01/11/2023 12:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <uhtdb1$1jgcu$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:38:09 on Wed, 1 Nov
>>>>>> 2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  But even when parliament is sitting, it's not been very active
>>>>>>>> lately in  terms of passing new legislation. I think this tired
>>>>>>>> government has simply  run out of things it wants to do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a good thing.  New legislation almost invariably makes things
>>>>>>> worse.  If they continue to do nothing, I may even vote for them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Worse for criminals perhaps. Today's hot topic is whether or not it
>>>>>> should be illegal to scrape photos of *your* children (other people's
>>>>>> children presumably being irrelevant) from social media, un-clothe
>>>>>> them using AI photo-processing apps, add someone poking whatever into
>>>>>> an orifice, then sell them on the dark web for perverts to wank over.
>>>
>>>>> Today's hot topic is whether the government can increase its
>>>>> surveillance of our internet use by requiring ID for everyday
>>>>> activities such as social media use, with a "think of the children"
>>>>> call to action tacked on to make it more palatable.
>>>>
>>>> I'm very protective of my ID and most certainly do not trust social
>>>> media companies with copies of it. I would sooner terminate my use of
>>>> their services.
>>>
>>> "Your ID" is a complex concept. I've been doing some CHAPs transfers
>>> recently, and I'm absolutely 100% sure the bank would not accept my
>>> Twitter-handle and password as proof I was who I claimed to be.
>>>
>>>> What interests me is that so many organisations seem to be very
>>>> dependent on the outfit formally known as Twitter for customer
>>>> communication and I wonder what plans they have if the outfit is unable
>>>> to provide services in various markets. Or all markets come to that.
>>>
>>> Commercial organisations have been fleeing Twitter for quite some time.
>>> They are probably more interested in Facebook and TikTok this week.
>>>
>>> They are also probably quite relieved that aggrieved customers sounding
>>> off on Twitter will be listened to by fewer and fewer people.
>>
>> Presumably the advertiser-flight is why every third or fourth eX-tweet I
>> see on eX-Twitter is the same advert.
>>
>
> The ads are now from much more obscure companies, as respected brands are
> steering clear. Those obscure companies are probably paying much less per
> view.

The obscurity is certainly true, though I noticed in browsing this morning
that the ads seem sparser than they have been - maybe every 5 or 6 postings
or even farther apart - and also more diverse. I guess there’s some
variability in the algorithms.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 13:51:47 +0000, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 09:18:15 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:16:48 +0000, Recliner
>><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:46:58 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 10:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roland was right.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>>>>>>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>>>>>>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>>>>>>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was written before the recent discovery that Antarctic sea ice is
>>>>>> melting far more quickly than expected. In fact 2023 has been an
>>>>>> eye-opener with several Holy Shit moments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>This report is from April this year:
>>>>
>>>>I'm talking later than that.
>>>>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01818-x.
>>>>
>>>>There have also been record temperatures, again, and not by a feather.
>>>
>>>Yes, global warming is real, and now inevitable. We need to find engineering solutions or mitigations, because it's now
>>>too late to stop the trend.
>>
>>We agree on that. I was pointing out there have been a number of
>>stories very very recently pointing out that the measured effects of
>>warming are shocking climate scientists. This year there appears to
>>have been a bit of a step change. Past estimates, even pessimistic
>>ones, are now looking somewhat optimistic.
>
>With more water vapour in the atmosphere, won't there be more snowfall in Antarctica and over Greenland?

First, you can make no such statements about precipitation in a
particular place. But it's about the balance if ice being added and
removed. We've known for a long time that temperature increase has
been far more extreme in the Arctic than elsewhere. Now it looks as if
the Antarctic is playing catchup.

On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 11:38:09 +0000, Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:

>On 01/11/2023 11:27, Recliner wrote:
>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 01/11/2023 08:25, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <9fednf7lp7WL29z4nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>>> 18:23:18 on Tue, 31 Oct 2023, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
>>>> remarked:
>>>>> On 29/10/2023 10:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>>>> This source keeps producing troubling snippets:
>>>>>>  https://twitter.com/SouthEastRailGp/status/1718295873015128506
>>>>>>  South & East Rail Group SERG @SouthEastRailGp
>>>>>
>>>>> Does the anonymous Tweeter have any credibility? The supposed
>>>>> organisation doesn't have much of a profile, and I've seen questions
>>>>> raised and doubts expressed - not least the idea of people being in
>>>>> the office on a Friday to have "traditional" lunches.
>>>>
>>>> Actually that bit does have a ring of truth, because the Parliamentary
>>>> week is from roughly speaking noon Monday to close of business Thursday,
>>>> but various "fringe" events on Friday morning. So a Friday lunch after
>>>> all the politicians they are hand-holding have finally caught their
>>>> trains/planes back to their constituencies for the weekend, is very
>>>> plausible.
>>>
>>> Not this week as they're having yet another week off.
>>
>> Yes, indeed.
>>
>> But even when parliament is sitting, it's not been very active lately in
>> terms of passing new legislation. I think this tired government has simply
>> run out of things it wants to do.
>
>This is a good thing. New legislation almost invariably makes things
>worse. If they continue to do nothing, I may even vote for them.

Except they keep announcing things and not delivering, such as a cap
of the money that an individual can pay for care and the scrapping of
no-fault evictions.

On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 14:56:08 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <uhtlfd$1kt1f$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:57:01 on Wed, 1 Nov
>2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
>>On 01/11/2023 12:55, Certes wrote:
>>> On 01/11/2023 12:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <uhtdb1$1jgcu$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:38:09 on Wed, 1 Nov
>>>>2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>>  But even when parliament is sitting, it's not been very active
>>>>>>lately in  terms of passing new legislation. I think this tired
>>>>>>government has simply  run out of things it wants to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a good thing.  New legislation almost invariably makes things
>>>>> worse.  If they continue to do nothing, I may even vote for them.
>>>>
>>>> Worse for criminals perhaps. Today's hot topic is whether or not it
>>>>should be illegal to scrape photos of *your* children (other people's
>>>>children presumably being irrelevant) from social media, un-clothe
>>>>them using AI photo-processing apps, add someone poking whatever into
>>>>an orifice, then sell them on the dark web for perverts to wank over.
>
>>> Today's hot topic is whether the government can increase its
>>> surveillance of our internet use by requiring ID for everyday
>>> activities such as social media use, with a "think of the children"
>>> call to action tacked on to make it more palatable.
>>
>>I'm very protective of my ID and most certainly do not trust social
>>media companies with copies of it. I would sooner terminate my use of
>>their services.
>
>"Your ID" is a complex concept. I've been doing some CHAPs transfers
>recently, and I'm absolutely 100% sure the bank would not accept my
>Twitter-handle and password as proof I was who I claimed to be.
>
>>What interests me is that so many organisations seem to be very
>>dependent on the outfit formally known as Twitter for customer
>>communication and I wonder what plans they have if the outfit is unable
>>to provide services in various markets. Or all markets come to that.
>
>Commercial organisations have been fleeing Twitter for quite some time.
>They are probably more interested in Facebook and TikTok this week.
>
I've closed my X account and use Threads. So far, so good. But I may
have to open a new X account for the sole purpose of interacting with
organisations such as TOCs, who, with a few exceptions, continue to
use only X for direct messaging.

>They are also probably quite relieved that aggrieved customers sounding
>off on Twitter will be listened to by fewer and fewer people.

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 13:51:47 +0000, Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 09:18:15 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:16:48 +0000, Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:46:58 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 10:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roland was right.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>>>>>>>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>>>>>>>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>>>>>>>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was written before the recent discovery that Antarctic sea ice is
>>>>>>> melting far more quickly than expected. In fact 2023 has been an
>>>>>>> eye-opener with several Holy Shit moments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This report is from April this year:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm talking later than that.
>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01818-x.
>>>>>
>>>>> There have also been record temperatures, again, and not by a feather.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, global warming is real, and now inevitable. We need to find
>>>> engineering solutions or mitigations, because it's now
>>>> too late to stop the trend.
>>>
>>> We agree on that. I was pointing out there have been a number of
>>> stories very very recently pointing out that the measured effects of
>>> warming are shocking climate scientists. This year there appears to
>>> have been a bit of a step change. Past estimates, even pessimistic
>>> ones, are now looking somewhat optimistic.
>>
>> With more water vapour in the atmosphere, won't there be more snowfall
>> in Antarctica and over Greenland?
>
> First, you can make no such statements about precipitation in a
> particular place.

I wasn't assuming any such thing. I was assuming more precipitation
*everywhere*, including snow on glaciers.

> But it's about the balance if ice being added and
> removed. We've known for a long time that temperature increase has
> been far more extreme in the Arctic than elsewhere. Now it looks as if
> the Antarctic is playing catchup.

The Arctic has the particular problem that if the white sea ice melts and
is replaced by dark water, more solar radiation will be absorbed.

One effect is that Northwest Passage cruises are now routine, and Russia
hopes to open up a Northeast Passage shipping route.

On 02/11/2023 11:54, Recliner wrote:
> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 13:51:47 +0000, Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 09:18:15 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:16:48 +0000, Recliner
>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:46:58 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 10:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Roland was right.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>>>>>>>>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>>>>>>>>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>>>>>>>>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This was written before the recent discovery that Antarctic sea ice is
>>>>>>>> melting far more quickly than expected. In fact 2023 has been an
>>>>>>>> eye-opener with several Holy Shit moments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This report is from April this year:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm talking later than that.
>>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01818-x.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There have also been record temperatures, again, and not by a feather.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, global warming is real, and now inevitable. We need to find
>>>>> engineering solutions or mitigations, because it's now
>>>>> too late to stop the trend.
>>>>
>>>> We agree on that. I was pointing out there have been a number of
>>>> stories very very recently pointing out that the measured effects of
>>>> warming are shocking climate scientists. This year there appears to
>>>> have been a bit of a step change. Past estimates, even pessimistic
>>>> ones, are now looking somewhat optimistic.
>>>
>>> With more water vapour in the atmosphere, won't there be more snowfall
>>> in Antarctica and over Greenland?
>>
>> First, you can make no such statements about precipitation in a
>> particular place.
>
> I wasn't assuming any such thing. I was assuming more precipitation
> *everywhere*, including snow on glaciers.
>
>> But it's about the balance if ice being added and
>> removed. We've known for a long time that temperature increase has
>> been far more extreme in the Arctic than elsewhere. Now it looks as if
>> the Antarctic is playing catchup.
>
> The Arctic has the particular problem that if the white sea ice melts and
> is replaced by dark water, more solar radiation will be absorbed.
>
> One effect is that Northwest Passage cruises are now routine, and Russia
> hopes to open up a Northeast Passage shipping route.
>
>

The problem there is the route is available but no one wants to use it.
Though, presumably it will be useful for European Russia and China trade.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 13:59:48 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 02/11/2023 11:54, Recliner wrote:
>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 13:51:47 +0000, Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 09:18:15 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:16:48 +0000, Recliner
>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:46:58 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 10:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Roland was right.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>>>>>>>>>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>>>>>>>>>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>>>>>>>>>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This was written before the recent discovery that Antarctic sea ice is
>>>>>>>>> melting far more quickly than expected. In fact 2023 has been an
>>>>>>>>> eye-opener with several Holy Shit moments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This report is from April this year:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm talking later than that.
>>>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01818-x.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There have also been record temperatures, again, and not by a feather.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, global warming is real, and now inevitable. We need to find
>>>>>> engineering solutions or mitigations, because it's now
>>>>>> too late to stop the trend.
>>>>>
>>>>> We agree on that. I was pointing out there have been a number of
>>>>> stories very very recently pointing out that the measured effects of
>>>>> warming are shocking climate scientists. This year there appears to
>>>>> have been a bit of a step change. Past estimates, even pessimistic
>>>>> ones, are now looking somewhat optimistic.
>>>>
>>>> With more water vapour in the atmosphere, won't there be more snowfall
>>>> in Antarctica and over Greenland?
>>>
>>> First, you can make no such statements about precipitation in a
>>> particular place.
>>
>> I wasn't assuming any such thing. I was assuming more precipitation
>> *everywhere*, including snow on glaciers.
>>
>>> But it's about the balance if ice being added and
>>> removed. We've known for a long time that temperature increase has
>>> been far more extreme in the Arctic than elsewhere. Now it looks as if
>>> the Antarctic is playing catchup.
>>
>> The Arctic has the particular problem that if the white sea ice melts and
>> is replaced by dark water, more solar radiation will be absorbed.
>>
>> One effect is that Northwest Passage cruises are now routine, and Russia
>> hopes to open up a Northeast Passage shipping route.
>>
>>
>
>The problem there is the route is available but no one wants to use it.
>Though, presumably it will be useful for European Russia and China trade.

China-Europe is the target market It's much shorter than the existing routes, particularly for ships too large for the
Suez Canal.

On 02/11/2023 14:22, Recliner wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 13:59:48 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 02/11/2023 11:54, Recliner wrote:
>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 13:51:47 +0000, Recliner
>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 09:18:15 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:16:48 +0000, Recliner
>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:46:58 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 10:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Roland was right.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>>>>>>>>>>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>>>>>>>>>>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>>>>>>>>>>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This was written before the recent discovery that Antarctic sea ice is
>>>>>>>>>> melting far more quickly than expected. In fact 2023 has been an
>>>>>>>>>> eye-opener with several Holy Shit moments.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This report is from April this year:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm talking later than that.
>>>>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01818-x.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There have also been record temperatures, again, and not by a feather.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, global warming is real, and now inevitable. We need to find
>>>>>>> engineering solutions or mitigations, because it's now
>>>>>>> too late to stop the trend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We agree on that. I was pointing out there have been a number of
>>>>>> stories very very recently pointing out that the measured effects of
>>>>>> warming are shocking climate scientists. This year there appears to
>>>>>> have been a bit of a step change. Past estimates, even pessimistic
>>>>>> ones, are now looking somewhat optimistic.
>>>>>
>>>>> With more water vapour in the atmosphere, won't there be more snowfall
>>>>> in Antarctica and over Greenland?
>>>>
>>>> First, you can make no such statements about precipitation in a
>>>> particular place.
>>>
>>> I wasn't assuming any such thing. I was assuming more precipitation
>>> *everywhere*, including snow on glaciers.
>>>
>>>> But it's about the balance if ice being added and
>>>> removed. We've known for a long time that temperature increase has
>>>> been far more extreme in the Arctic than elsewhere. Now it looks as if
>>>> the Antarctic is playing catchup.
>>>
>>> The Arctic has the particular problem that if the white sea ice melts and
>>> is replaced by dark water, more solar radiation will be absorbed.
>>>
>>> One effect is that Northwest Passage cruises are now routine, and Russia
>>> hopes to open up a Northeast Passage shipping route.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The problem there is the route is available but no one wants to use it.
>> Though, presumably it will be useful for European Russia and China trade.
>
> China-Europe is the target market It's much shorter than the existing routes, particularly for ships too large for the
> Suez Canal.

But, as I said, no-one outside of Russia wants to use it.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 02/11/2023 16:17, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 02/11/2023 14:22, Recliner wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 13:59:48 +0000, Graeme Wall
>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/11/2023 11:54, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 13:51:47 +0000, Recliner
>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 09:18:15 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:16:48 +0000, Recliner
>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:46:58 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 10:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland was right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
>>>>>>>>>>>> (IPCC) Report
>>>>>>>>>>>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28
>>>>>>>>>>>> – 55cm) by the
>>>>>>>>>>>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise
>>>>>>>>>>>> of over 6 feet
>>>>>>>>>>>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This was written before the recent discovery that Antarctic
>>>>>>>>>>> sea ice is
>>>>>>>>>>> melting far more quickly than expected. In fact 2023 has been an
>>>>>>>>>>> eye-opener with several Holy Shit moments.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This report is from April this year:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm talking later than that.
>>>>>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01818-x.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There have also been record temperatures, again, and not by a
>>>>>>>>> feather.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, global warming is real, and now inevitable. We need to find
>>>>>>>> engineering solutions or mitigations, because it's now
>>>>>>>> too late to stop the trend.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We agree on that. I was pointing out there have been a number of
>>>>>>> stories very very recently pointing out that the measured effects of
>>>>>>> warming are shocking climate scientists.  This year there appears to
>>>>>>> have been a bit of a step change. Past estimates, even pessimistic
>>>>>>> ones, are now looking somewhat optimistic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With more water vapour in the atmosphere, won't there be more
>>>>>> snowfall
>>>>>> in Antarctica and over Greenland?
>>>>>
>>>>> First, you can make no such statements about precipitation in a
>>>>> particular place.
>>>>
>>>> I wasn't assuming any such thing. I was assuming more precipitation
>>>> *everywhere*, including snow on glaciers.
>>>>
>>>>> But it's about the balance if ice being added and
>>>>> removed. We've known for a long time that temperature increase has
>>>>> been far more extreme in the Arctic than elsewhere. Now it looks as if
>>>>> the Antarctic is playing catchup.
>>>>
>>>> The Arctic has the particular problem that if the white sea ice
>>>> melts and
>>>> is replaced by dark water, more solar radiation will be absorbed.
>>>>
>>>> One effect is that Northwest Passage cruises are now routine, and
>>>> Russia
>>>> hopes to open up a Northeast Passage shipping route.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> The problem there is the route is available but no one wants to use it.
>>> Though, presumably it will be useful for European Russia and China
>>> trade.
>>
>> China-Europe is the target market  It's much shorter than the existing
>> routes, particularly for ships too large for the
>> Suez Canal.
>
> But, as I said, no-one outside of Russia wants to use it.
>

As there is mandatory (Russian) pilotage etc I wonder if sanctions would
preclude any China / Europe traffic (OK, China / Russia traffic no problem).

--
Colin

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 02/11/2023 14:22, Recliner wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 13:59:48 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/11/2023 11:54, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 13:51:47 +0000, Recliner
>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 09:18:15 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:16:48 +0000, Recliner
>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:46:58 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 10:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland was right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>>>>>>>>>>>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>>>>>>>>>>>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>>>>>>>>>>>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This was written before the recent discovery that Antarctic sea ice is
>>>>>>>>>>> melting far more quickly than expected. In fact 2023 has been an
>>>>>>>>>>> eye-opener with several Holy Shit moments.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This report is from April this year:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm talking later than that.
>>>>>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01818-x.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There have also been record temperatures, again, and not by a feather.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, global warming is real, and now inevitable. We need to find
>>>>>>>> engineering solutions or mitigations, because it's now
>>>>>>>> too late to stop the trend.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We agree on that. I was pointing out there have been a number of
>>>>>>> stories very very recently pointing out that the measured effects of
>>>>>>> warming are shocking climate scientists. This year there appears to
>>>>>>> have been a bit of a step change. Past estimates, even pessimistic
>>>>>>> ones, are now looking somewhat optimistic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With more water vapour in the atmosphere, won't there be more snowfall
>>>>>> in Antarctica and over Greenland?
>>>>>
>>>>> First, you can make no such statements about precipitation in a
>>>>> particular place.
>>>>
>>>> I wasn't assuming any such thing. I was assuming more precipitation
>>>> *everywhere*, including snow on glaciers.
>>>>
>>>>> But it's about the balance if ice being added and
>>>>> removed. We've known for a long time that temperature increase has
>>>>> been far more extreme in the Arctic than elsewhere. Now it looks as if
>>>>> the Antarctic is playing catchup.
>>>>
>>>> The Arctic has the particular problem that if the white sea ice melts and
>>>> is replaced by dark water, more solar radiation will be absorbed.
>>>>
>>>> One effect is that Northwest Passage cruises are now routine, and Russia
>>>> hopes to open up a Northeast Passage shipping route.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> The problem there is the route is available but no one wants to use it.
>>> Though, presumably it will be useful for European Russia and China trade.
>>
>> China-Europe is the target market It's much shorter than the existing
>> routes, particularly for ships too large for the
>> Suez Canal.
>
> But, as I said, no-one outside of Russia wants to use it.
>

Why would China not want to use it? And Putin's war won't go on forever.

ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
> On 02/11/2023 16:17, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 02/11/2023 14:22, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 13:59:48 +0000, Graeme Wall
>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 02/11/2023 11:54, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 13:51:47 +0000, Recliner
>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 09:18:15 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:16:48 +0000, Recliner
>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:46:58 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 10:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland was right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (IPCC) Report
>>>>>>>>>>>>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28
>>>>>>>>>>>>> – 55cm) by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of over 6 feet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This was written before the recent discovery that Antarctic
>>>>>>>>>>>> sea ice is
>>>>>>>>>>>> melting far more quickly than expected. In fact 2023 has been an
>>>>>>>>>>>> eye-opener with several Holy Shit moments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This report is from April this year:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm talking later than that.
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01818-x.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There have also been record temperatures, again, and not by a
>>>>>>>>>> feather.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, global warming is real, and now inevitable. We need to find
>>>>>>>>> engineering solutions or mitigations, because it's now
>>>>>>>>> too late to stop the trend.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We agree on that. I was pointing out there have been a number of
>>>>>>>> stories very very recently pointing out that the measured effects of
>>>>>>>> warming are shocking climate scientists.  This year there appears to
>>>>>>>> have been a bit of a step change. Past estimates, even pessimistic
>>>>>>>> ones, are now looking somewhat optimistic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With more water vapour in the atmosphere, won't there be more
>>>>>>> snowfall
>>>>>>> in Antarctica and over Greenland?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First, you can make no such statements about precipitation in a
>>>>>> particular place.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wasn't assuming any such thing. I was assuming more precipitation
>>>>> *everywhere*, including snow on glaciers.
>>>>>
>>>>>> But it's about the balance if ice being added and
>>>>>> removed. We've known for a long time that temperature increase has
>>>>>> been far more extreme in the Arctic than elsewhere. Now it looks as if
>>>>>> the Antarctic is playing catchup.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Arctic has the particular problem that if the white sea ice
>>>>> melts and
>>>>> is replaced by dark water, more solar radiation will be absorbed.
>>>>>
>>>>> One effect is that Northwest Passage cruises are now routine, and
>>>>> Russia
>>>>> hopes to open up a Northeast Passage shipping route.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The problem there is the route is available but no one wants to use it.
>>>> Though, presumably it will be useful for European Russia and China
>>>> trade.
>>>
>>> China-Europe is the target market  It's much shorter than the existing
>>> routes, particularly for ships too large for the
>>> Suez Canal.
>>
>> But, as I said, no-one outside of Russia wants to use it.
>>
>
> As there is mandatory (Russian) pilotage etc I wonder if sanctions would
> preclude any China / Europe traffic (OK, China / Russia traffic no problem).

Would Chinese ships, insured by Chinese companies, carrying Chinese
exports, be troubled by that?

On 02/11/2023 16:44, Recliner wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 02/11/2023 14:22, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 13:59:48 +0000, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 02/11/2023 11:54, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 13:51:47 +0000, Recliner
>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 09:18:15 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:16:48 +0000, Recliner
>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:46:58 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 10:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland was right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report
>>>>>>>>>>>>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This was written before the recent discovery that Antarctic sea ice is
>>>>>>>>>>>> melting far more quickly than expected. In fact 2023 has been an
>>>>>>>>>>>> eye-opener with several Holy Shit moments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This report is from April this year:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm talking later than that.
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01818-x.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There have also been record temperatures, again, and not by a feather.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, global warming is real, and now inevitable. We need to find
>>>>>>>>> engineering solutions or mitigations, because it's now
>>>>>>>>> too late to stop the trend.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We agree on that. I was pointing out there have been a number of
>>>>>>>> stories very very recently pointing out that the measured effects of
>>>>>>>> warming are shocking climate scientists. This year there appears to
>>>>>>>> have been a bit of a step change. Past estimates, even pessimistic
>>>>>>>> ones, are now looking somewhat optimistic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With more water vapour in the atmosphere, won't there be more snowfall
>>>>>>> in Antarctica and over Greenland?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First, you can make no such statements about precipitation in a
>>>>>> particular place.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wasn't assuming any such thing. I was assuming more precipitation
>>>>> *everywhere*, including snow on glaciers.
>>>>>
>>>>>> But it's about the balance if ice being added and
>>>>>> removed. We've known for a long time that temperature increase has
>>>>>> been far more extreme in the Arctic than elsewhere. Now it looks as if
>>>>>> the Antarctic is playing catchup.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Arctic has the particular problem that if the white sea ice melts and
>>>>> is replaced by dark water, more solar radiation will be absorbed.
>>>>>
>>>>> One effect is that Northwest Passage cruises are now routine, and Russia
>>>>> hopes to open up a Northeast Passage shipping route.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The problem there is the route is available but no one wants to use it.
>>>> Though, presumably it will be useful for European Russia and China trade.
>>>
>>> China-Europe is the target market It's much shorter than the existing
>>> routes, particularly for ships too large for the
>>> Suez Canal.
>>
>> But, as I said, no-one outside of Russia wants to use it.
>>
>
> Why would China not want to use it? And Putin's war won't go on forever.
>

The main problem is that the modern container trade involves routes that
set down and pick up at many places en route, a bit like old fashioned
rail-freight. So the big ships coming from China to the the west will be
also be serving India, the Arabian peninsular, Africa and/or the
Mediterranean. The North-East passage bypasses all those. So it is
really only useful for direct Far East - North-western Europe trade.

As Colin suggests, there is currently the sanctions problem with Russia,
and it doesn't look like that is going to change anytime soon. Possibly
not till someone assassinates Putin.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 02/11/2023 16:48, Recliner wrote:
> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 02/11/2023 16:17, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 02/11/2023 14:22, Recliner wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 13:59:48 +0000, Graeme Wall
>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 02/11/2023 11:54, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 13:51:47 +0000, Recliner
>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 09:18:15 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:16:48 +0000, Recliner
>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:46:58 +0000, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 10:42:10 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:30:54 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland was right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "In 2021, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (IPCC) Report
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> predicted sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> – 55cm) by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of over 6 feet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/#impacts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This was written before the recent discovery that Antarctic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sea ice is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> melting far more quickly than expected. In fact 2023 has been an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> eye-opener with several Holy Shit moments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This report is from April this year:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm talking later than that.
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01818-x.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There have also been record temperatures, again, and not by a
>>>>>>>>>>> feather.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, global warming is real, and now inevitable. We need to find
>>>>>>>>>> engineering solutions or mitigations, because it's now
>>>>>>>>>> too late to stop the trend.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We agree on that. I was pointing out there have been a number of
>>>>>>>>> stories very very recently pointing out that the measured effects of
>>>>>>>>> warming are shocking climate scientists.  This year there appears to
>>>>>>>>> have been a bit of a step change. Past estimates, even pessimistic
>>>>>>>>> ones, are now looking somewhat optimistic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With more water vapour in the atmosphere, won't there be more
>>>>>>>> snowfall
>>>>>>>> in Antarctica and over Greenland?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First, you can make no such statements about precipitation in a
>>>>>>> particular place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wasn't assuming any such thing. I was assuming more precipitation
>>>>>> *everywhere*, including snow on glaciers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But it's about the balance if ice being added and
>>>>>>> removed. We've known for a long time that temperature increase has
>>>>>>> been far more extreme in the Arctic than elsewhere. Now it looks as if
>>>>>>> the Antarctic is playing catchup.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Arctic has the particular problem that if the white sea ice
>>>>>> melts and
>>>>>> is replaced by dark water, more solar radiation will be absorbed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One effect is that Northwest Passage cruises are now routine, and
>>>>>> Russia
>>>>>> hopes to open up a Northeast Passage shipping route.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem there is the route is available but no one wants to use it.
>>>>> Though, presumably it will be useful for European Russia and China
>>>>> trade.
>>>>
>>>> China-Europe is the target market  It's much shorter than the existing
>>>> routes, particularly for ships too large for the
>>>> Suez Canal.
>>>
>>> But, as I said, no-one outside of Russia wants to use it.
>>>
>>
>> As there is mandatory (Russian) pilotage etc I wonder if sanctions would
>> preclude any China / Europe traffic (OK, China / Russia traffic no problem).
>
> Would Chinese ships, insured by Chinese companies, carrying Chinese
> exports, be troubled by that?
>

Assuming they would be allowed to dock anywhere outside of Russia if
they did come that way.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 02/11/2023 17:46, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 02/11/2023 16:48, Recliner wrote:
>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 02/11/2023 16:17, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 02/11/2023 14:22, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 13:59:48 +0000, Graeme Wall
>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 02/11/2023 11:54, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> One effect is that Northwest Passage cruises are now routine, and
>>>>>>> Russia
>>>>>>> hopes to open up a Northeast Passage shipping route.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem there is the route is available but no one wants to
>>>>>> use it.
>>>>>> Though, presumably it will be useful for European Russia and China
>>>>>> trade.
>>>>>
>>>>> China-Europe is the target market  It's much shorter than the existing
>>>>> routes, particularly for ships too large for the
>>>>> Suez Canal.
>>>>
>>>> But, as I said, no-one outside of Russia wants to use it.
>>>
>>> As there is mandatory (Russian) pilotage etc I wonder if sanctions would
>>> preclude any China / Europe traffic (OK, China / Russia traffic no
>>> problem).
>>
>> Would Chinese ships, insured by Chinese companies, carrying Chinese
>> exports, be troubled by that?
>
> Assuming they would be allowed to dock anywhere outside of Russia if
> they did come that way.

Are we boycotting ships just for passing through Russian waters, even if
they're not contributing to the Russian economy (except perhaps by
briefly employing a pilot)? Is it even necessary to enter Russian
territory to use the passage?

In message <uhuca1$1p7ld$2@dont-email.me>, at 20:26:41 on Wed, 1 Nov
2023, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:

>>>>> Meanwhile, my new SUV can wade through <drumroll> 50cm, so that's OK.
>>>>
>>>> I hope it can handle waves and tides!
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how many of either are going to be presenting themselves 40
>>> miles inland.

>> Do you think you’ll still be 40 miles inland?
>
>Depending on where he lives Roland might find his plot will be under
>the North Sea. So will Ely railway station. Rail Replacement Boats
>anyone?

My house is significantly higher than Ely Railway station, hence my
numerous references to the risk to the Fen Line which are clearly
falling on deaf ears.
--
Roland Perry