Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 3 Jan 2022 11:47:28 GMT
> Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Oo, ta for that. Had already looked on the bay of fleas for an old copy.
>> Got it saved on my i-thingy now.
>
> Want the epub ? Does your kneemail jbex ?
>

No real need thanks. Perfectly readable on my I-thingy and I can always
email it to my kindle address if I want it there. Thanks for the offer
though.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 03-Jan-22 11:47, Tim+ wrote:
> Dennis Davis <dennisdavis@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> In article <2dg5tgld1f8ujg69hmfgv4a3h4jqsgar5j@4ax.com>,
>> Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:54:56 -0000 (UTC), Dennis Davis
>>> <dennisdavis@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>>>> Thinks, must get myself a new copy:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ignition-Informal-Propellants-University-Classics/dp/0813595835
>>>
>>> Many years ago some sheddi - maybe yourself? - pointed out an on-line
>>> version so that link should be somewhere in the archive of ye shedde.
>>> I'm not going to Google for that right now...
>>
>> No need. Humanoid (that's me, allegedly) help is at hand. Online
>> PDF is available from:
>>
>> http://www.sciencemadness.org/library/books/ignition.pdf
>>
>> An epub version of the book was kindly emailed to me by Steve
>> O'Hara-Smith of this parish.
>
> Oo, ta for that. Had already looked on the bay of fleas for an old copy.
> Got it saved on my i-thingy now.

That PDF version (downloaded Ta!) is a tad more reasonable than the
£994.97 that the big river is asking for a hardback copy.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 2022-01-02, Brian Gaff (Sofa) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Maybe despite predictions, the Electric cars don't burn as well?
> Have you ever seen what happens if a fire starts in one of them GRP
> Lamborghini roller skates? All that is left is a few bits of metal from the
> engine and transmission.
> Plastic was used extensively and one assumes it just melted or burned. Just
> hope nobody uses magnesium to strengthen cars.
> Brian
>

There is a recent video on the Internet about a man who bought a cheap
second hand electric car whose battery started to give trouble, the bill
for a replacement was to be 20,000+. The Video is in Finnish.

I used to visit an old friend in the retirement home, whose roomate was
an exmechanic, and that man would join us. All you had to mention was
`used batteries' from Electric Cars, and he would complain about them.
It seems that you even need special tools to get them out of the cars.

On 2022-01-02, Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
> In article <sqs94f$6cu$1@dont-email.me>, RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.
> girolle.co.uk> on Sun, 2 Jan 2022 at 13:25:33 awoke Nicholas from his
> slumbers and wrote
>>On 02/01/2022 09:47, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>>> Maybe despite predictions, the Electric cars don't burn as well?
>>> Have you ever seen what happens if a fire starts in one of them GRP
>>> Lamborghini roller skates? All that is left is a few bits of metal from the
>>> engine and transmission.
>>> Plastic was used extensively and one assumes it just melted or burned. Just
>>> hope nobody uses magnesium to strengthen cars.
>>
>>Some vehicles have magnesium body components. Many engines (VW for
>>instance) have magnesium engine castings, Rumi scooters were virtually
>>all magnesium.
>>
>>Get iron started and it's a devil to extinguish, and as for titanium...
>

I had a small lathe, when I could see well enough for it to matter, and
the steel cut off whatever I was cutting was a real danger, specially
when mixed with sawdust wne I was turning wood, fill up a sack of the
mixture, bring it well down the garden, and set it off.

The steel turnings were called swaff, or something lke that.

On 2022-01-03, Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
> In article <squdl0$1afm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Dennis Davis
><dennisdavis@fastmail.fm> on Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 08:54:56 awoke Nicholas
> from his slumbers and wrote
>
>> If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed
>> off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is confronted with
>> the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with
>> this situation, I have always recommended a good pair of running
>> shoes.
>> -- "Ignition! An Informal History of Liquid Rocket
>> Propellants", John Drury Clarke, Rutgers University
>> Press, 1972, 214 pages. ISBN 00-8135-0725-1
>>
> Reminds me of an inquiry into a coal pit fire:
>
> Coal cutting machine operator: ".......and then there was a bloody big
> bang, flames and sparks from the machine"
>
> Counsel to the enquiry: "and what steps did you then take"
>
> Coal cutting machine operator: "Bloody big ones"
>
> The expletives were probably just a tad bit stronger.

Back then there was an article on the "Daily Sketch" about how efficent
the Russian Coal mines were, the Russians would drill out big holes, set
the coal on fire, and harvest the gases for fuel somehow. At the time of
the collapse of the USSR, there was more news, that a snag had appeared,
there was no real way of putting the fires out, and they still burn.

One example was mentioned, a Russian majority area in Eastern Estonia.

How many years since the daily Sketch closed down?.

I have seen bog fires in Ireland. Once the fire had god down a bit into
the peat, there was noo real way of putting it out until winter rains

On 4 Jan 2022 16:56:07 GMT
maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

> There is a recent video on the Internet about a man who bought a cheap
> second hand electric car whose battery started to give trouble, the bill
> for a replacement was to be 20,000+. The Video is in Finnish.

Yeah an electric car is essentially a battery with a few bits
tacked on it, once the battery's dead the rest probably isn't too far
behind. A second hand electric car with a good battery is one of the
cheaper ways of getting a battery that big.

> I used to visit an old friend in the retirement home, whose roomate was
> an exmechanic, and that man would join us. All you had to mention was
> `used batteries' from Electric Cars, and he would complain about them.
> It seems that you even need special tools to get them out of the cars.

That figures, they occupy most of the space you don't see and the
wiring carries a *lot* of current.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 04/01/2022 16:56, maus wrote:

> There is a recent video on the Internet about a man who bought a cheap
> second hand electric car whose battery started to give trouble, the bill
> for a replacement was to be 20,000+. The Video is in Finnish.
>
> I used to visit an old friend in the retirement home, whose roomate was
> an exmechanic, and that man would join us. All you had to mention was
> `used batteries' from Electric Cars, and he would complain about them.
> It seems that you even need special tools to get them out of the cars.
>
This, and you need some very special equipment to recycle the lithium
variety. This is all because, to get the range required by users, they
are crammed in to any space available, mostly under the floor, and due
to the stress they are under, have to be liquid cooled. Early Teslas
used cells the same size as the standard 18650 lithium cell as used in
some vape sticks but with improved internals. About seven thousand of
them...

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.VNN07-8QxNNVVzJKi_8L6wHaEK?pid=ImgDet&rs=1

My little electric Roller Slate (A Reva G-Wiz) had a set of 8 x 6 volt
standard lead acid traction batteries, which could be changed in a
couple of hours by one person using a spanner and a screwdriver. They
are, of course, almost perfectly recyclable with minimal equipment. The
downside was that, if lucky, a new set of batteries would only get you
between 40 and 50 kilometres at a maximum of 65 kph. By the time I got
mine, it wouldn't make it the 20 miles to jbex and back. Still, it was
great fun round town when doing the shopping. :-)

Early Nissan Leaf cars used NiMh batteries, but they had a limited life,
and, as my brother discovered, cost more to replace at the end of their
life than it would to replace the car with a newer one. Not a major job,
but the batteries are irel rkcrafvir sbe gurve pncnpvgl.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 04/01/2022 16:56, maus wrote:
>
>> There is a recent video on the Internet about a man who bought a cheap
>> second hand electric car whose battery started to give trouble, the bill
>> for a replacement was to be 20,000+. The Video is in Finnish.
>>
>> I used to visit an old friend in the retirement home, whose roomate was
>> an exmechanic, and that man would join us. All you had to mention was
>> `used batteries' from Electric Cars, and he would complain about them.
>> It seems that you even need special tools to get them out of the cars.
>>
> This, and you need some very special equipment to recycle the lithium
> variety.

Recycling largely consists of rebuilding the good cells back into large
battery banks for domestic use. They’re far from being junk only fit for
scrappage.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 4 Jan 2022 16:56:07 GMT
> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>> There is a recent video on the Internet about a man who bought a cheap
>> second hand electric car whose battery started to give trouble, the bill
>> for a replacement was to be 20,000+. The Video is in Finnish.
>
> Yeah an electric car is essentially a battery with a few bits
> tacked on it, once the battery's dead the rest probably isn't too far
> behind. A second hand electric car with a good battery is one of the
> cheaper ways of getting a battery that big.
>
>> I used to visit an old friend in the retirement home, whose roomate was
>> an exmechanic, and that man would join us. All you had to mention was
>> `used batteries' from Electric Cars, and he would complain about them.
>> It seems that you even need special tools to get them out of the cars.
>
> That figures, they occupy most of the space you don't see and the
> wiring carries a *lot* of current.
>

I don’t think this is correct. Rich Rebuilds on U-bend has shown many
Tesla battery removals. Sure, they need a certain expertise and respect but
I’ve not seen any special tools involved.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

[mis-threaded due to brian's message not showing up on plusnet]

> Brian Gaff wrote:
>
>> Maybe despite predictions, the Electric cars don't burn as well?

Don't mention that to Chevrolet, they've just recalled every single Bolt (some
for the second time) due to battery fires, supposedly it's going to hurt them
9000 zu per car to fix them, meanwhile they have instructions to owners such as
"do not park within 50 feet of other vehicles", "only park on top floor of
multi-story car parks" etc

On 04/01/2022 17:16, maus wrote:

>
> I had a small lathe, when I could see well enough for it to matter, and
> the steel cut off whatever I was cutting was a real danger, specially
> when mixed with sawdust wne I was turning wood, fill up a sack of the
> mixture, bring it well down the garden, and set it off.
>
> The steel turnings were called swaff, or something lke that.

Swarf

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 04/01/2022 21:33, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 04/01/2022 17:16, maus wrote:
>
>>
>> I had a small lathe, when I could see  well enough for it to matter, and
>> the steel cut off whatever I was cutting was a real danger, specially
>> when mixed with sawdust wne I was turning wood, fill up a sack of the
>> mixture, bring it well down the garden, and set it off.
>>
>> The steel turnings were called swaff, or something lke that.
>
> Swarf
>

(north UK) to grow languid; to faint

Tone

maus said:
> On 2022-01-03, Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>> In article <squdl0$1afm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Dennis Davis
>><dennisdavis@fastmail.fm> on Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 08:54:56 awoke Nicholas
>> from his slumbers and wrote
>>
>>> If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed
>>> off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is confronted with
>>> the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with
>>> this situation, I have always recommended a good pair of running
>>> shoes.
>>> -- "Ignition! An Informal History of Liquid Rocket
>>> Propellants", John Drury Clarke, Rutgers University
>>> Press, 1972, 214 pages. ISBN 00-8135-0725-1
>>>
>> Reminds me of an inquiry into a coal pit fire:
>>
>> Coal cutting machine operator: ".......and then there was a bloody big
>> bang, flames and sparks from the machine"
>>
>> Counsel to the enquiry: "and what steps did you then take"
>>
>> Coal cutting machine operator: "Bloody big ones"
>>
>> The expletives were probably just a tad bit stronger.
>
> Back then there was an article on the "Daily Sketch" about how efficent
> the Russian Coal mines were, the Russians would drill out big holes, set
> the coal on fire, and harvest the gases for fuel somehow. At the time of
> the collapse of the USSR, there was more news, that a snag had appeared,
> there was no real way of putting the fires out, and they still burn.
>
> One example was mentioned, a Russian majority area in Eastern Estonia.
>
> How many years since the daily Sketch closed down?.
>
> I have seen bog fires in Ireland. Once the fire had god down a bit into
> the peat, there was noo real way of putting it out until winter rains

Yes, can turn up miles away from where it started.

Bill Bryson, somewhere, mentioned a coal mine in Pennsylvania-I-think
that caught fire manymany years ago and isn't likely to stop till it
runs out..

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On Wed, 05 Jan 2022 07:21:12 -0600
Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:

> maus said:
> > On 2022-01-03, Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
> >> In article <squdl0$1afm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Dennis Davis
> >><dennisdavis@fastmail.fm> on Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 08:54:56 awoke Nicholas
> >> from his slumbers and wrote
> >>
> >>> If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed
> >>> off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is confronted with
> >>> the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with
> >>> this situation, I have always recommended a good pair of running
> >>> shoes.
> >>> -- "Ignition! An Informal History of Liquid Rocket
> >>> Propellants", John Drury Clarke, Rutgers University
> >>> Press, 1972, 214 pages. ISBN 00-8135-0725-1
> >>>
> >> Reminds me of an inquiry into a coal pit fire:
> >>
> >> Coal cutting machine operator: ".......and then there was a bloody big
> >> bang, flames and sparks from the machine"
> >>
> >> Counsel to the enquiry: "and what steps did you then take"
> >>
> >> Coal cutting machine operator: "Bloody big ones"
> >>
> >> The expletives were probably just a tad bit stronger.
> >
> > Back then there was an article on the "Daily Sketch" about how efficent
> > the Russian Coal mines were, the Russians would drill out big holes, set
> > the coal on fire, and harvest the gases for fuel somehow. At the time of
> > the collapse of the USSR, there was more news, that a snag had appeared,
> > there was no real way of putting the fires out, and they still burn.
> >
> > One example was mentioned, a Russian majority area in Eastern Estonia.
> >
> > How many years since the daily Sketch closed down?.
> >
> > I have seen bog fires in Ireland. Once the fire had god down a bit into
> > the peat, there was noo real way of putting it out until winter rains
>
> Yes, can turn up miles away from where it started.
>
> Bill Bryson, somewhere, mentioned a coal mine in Pennsylvania-I-think
> that caught fire manymany years ago and isn't likely to stop till it
> runs out..
>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On 05-Jan-22 13:21, Richard Robinson wrote:
> maus said:
>> On 2022-01-03, Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>> In article <squdl0$1afm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Dennis Davis
>>> <dennisdavis@fastmail.fm> on Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 08:54:56 awoke Nicholas
>>> from his slumbers and wrote
>>>
>>>> If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed
>>>> off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is confronted with
>>>> the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with
>>>> this situation, I have always recommended a good pair of running
>>>> shoes.
>>>> -- "Ignition! An Informal History of Liquid Rocket
>>>> Propellants", John Drury Clarke, Rutgers University
>>>> Press, 1972, 214 pages. ISBN 00-8135-0725-1
>>>>
>>> Reminds me of an inquiry into a coal pit fire:
>>>
>>> Coal cutting machine operator: ".......and then there was a bloody big
>>> bang, flames and sparks from the machine"
>>>
>>> Counsel to the enquiry: "and what steps did you then take"
>>>
>>> Coal cutting machine operator: "Bloody big ones"
>>>
>>> The expletives were probably just a tad bit stronger.
>>
>> Back then there was an article on the "Daily Sketch" about how efficent
>> the Russian Coal mines were, the Russians would drill out big holes, set
>> the coal on fire, and harvest the gases for fuel somehow. At the time of
>> the collapse of the USSR, there was more news, that a snag had appeared,
>> there was no real way of putting the fires out, and they still burn.
>>
>> One example was mentioned, a Russian majority area in Eastern Estonia.
>>
>> How many years since the daily Sketch closed down?.
>>
>> I have seen bog fires in Ireland. Once the fire had god down a bit into
>> the peat, there was noo real way of putting it out until winter rains
>
> Yes, can turn up miles away from where it started.
>
> Bill Bryson, somewhere, mentioned a coal mine in Pennsylvania-I-think
> that caught fire manymany years ago and isn't likely to stop till it
> runs out..
>
A lot of the waste tips at UK coal mines have smouldered away for
decades. Of course we aren't adding to the problem anymore.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 04-Jan-22 21:33, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 04/01/2022 17:16, maus wrote:
>
>>
>> I had a small lathe, when I could see  well enough for it to matter, and
>> the steel cut off whatever I was cutting was a real danger, specially
>> when mixed with sawdust wne I was turning wood, fill up a sack of the
>> mixture, bring it well down the garden, and set it off.
>>
>> The steel turnings were called swaff, or something lke that.
>
> Swarf
>
And hence Swarfega.

Which, it is said, was originally intended "for extending the life of
silk stockings".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarfega

--
Sam Plusnet

On 2022-01-05, Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jan 2022 07:21:12 -0600
> Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> maus said:
>> > On 2022-01-03, Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>> >> In article <squdl0$1afm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Dennis Davis
>> >><dennisdavis@fastmail.fm> on Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 08:54:56 awoke Nicholas
>> >> from his slumbers and wrote
>> >>
>> >>> If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed
>> >>> off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is confronted with
>> >>> the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with
>> >>> this situation, I have always recommended a good pair of running
>> >>> shoes.
>> >>> -- "Ignition! An Informal History of Liquid Rocket
>> >>> Propellants", John Drury Clarke, Rutgers University
>> >>> Press, 1972, 214 pages. ISBN 00-8135-0725-1
>> >>>
>> >> Reminds me of an inquiry into a coal pit fire:
>> >>
>> >> Coal cutting machine operator: ".......and then there was a bloody big
>> >> bang, flames and sparks from the machine"
>> >>
>> >> Counsel to the enquiry: "and what steps did you then take"
>> >>
>> >> Coal cutting machine operator: "Bloody big ones"
>> >>
>> >> The expletives were probably just a tad bit stronger.
>> >
>> > Back then there was an article on the "Daily Sketch" about how efficent
>> > the Russian Coal mines were, the Russians would drill out big holes, set
>> > the coal on fire, and harvest the gases for fuel somehow. At the time of
>> > the collapse of the USSR, there was more news, that a snag had appeared,
>> > there was no real way of putting the fires out, and they still burn.
>> >
>> > One example was mentioned, a Russian majority area in Eastern Estonia.
>> >
>> > How many years since the daily Sketch closed down?.
>> >
>> > I have seen bog fires in Ireland. Once the fire had god down a bit into
>> > the peat, there was noo real way of putting it out until winter rains
>>
>> Yes, can turn up miles away from where it started.
>>
>> Bill Bryson, somewhere, mentioned a coal mine in Pennsylvania-I-think
>> that caught fire manymany years ago and isn't likely to stop till it
>> runs out..
>>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
>

Interesting The Original story I remembered seemed what was typical
central planning blooper, where someone who has been put in a State
position even while being an idiot, makes a major *uckup.

On 2022-01-05, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
> On 05-Jan-22 13:21, Richard Robinson wrote:
>> maus said:
>>> On 2022-01-03, Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <squdl0$1afm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Dennis Davis
>>>> <dennisdavis@fastmail.fm> on Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 08:54:56 awoke Nicholas
>>>> from his slumbers and wrote
>>
>> Bill Bryson, somewhere, mentioned a coal mine in Pennsylvania-I-think
>> that caught fire manymany years ago and isn't likely to stop till it
>> runs out..
>>
> A lot of the waste tips at UK coal mines have smouldered away for
> decades. Of course we aren't adding to the problem anymore.
>

I wonder what the areas in the US, Australia, and Canada where massive
amounts of trees have been cut down to produce wood pellets to power the
Drax boilers, look like now?

On 06-Jan-22 17:35, maus wrote:
> On 2022-01-05, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> On 05-Jan-22 13:21, Richard Robinson wrote:
>>> maus said:
>>>> On 2022-01-03, Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article <squdl0$1afm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Dennis Davis
>>>>> <dennisdavis@fastmail.fm> on Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 08:54:56 awoke Nicholas
>>>>> from his slumbers and wrote
>>>
>>> Bill Bryson, somewhere, mentioned a coal mine in Pennsylvania-I-think
>>> that caught fire manymany years ago and isn't likely to stop till it
>>> runs out..
>>>
>> A lot of the waste tips at UK coal mines have smouldered away for
>> decades. Of course we aren't adding to the problem anymore.
>>
>
> I wonder what the areas in the US, Australia, and Canada where massive
> amounts of trees have been cut down to produce wood pellets to power the
> Drax boilers, look like now?

If you pick the right type of trees, you can treat it as a crop much
like wheat, but the time between planting & harvest might be 25 years.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 6 Jan 2022 17:32:58 GMT
maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

> On 2022-01-05, Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> > On Wed, 05 Jan 2022 07:21:12 -0600
> > Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
> >
> >> maus said:
> >> > On 2022-01-03, Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
> >> >> In article <squdl0$1afm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Dennis Davis
> >> >><dennisdavis@fastmail.fm> on Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 08:54:56 awoke Nicholas
> >> >> from his slumbers and wrote
> >> >>
> >> >>> If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed
> >> >>> off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is confronted with
> >> >>> the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with
> >> >>> this situation, I have always recommended a good pair of running
> >> >>> shoes.
> >> >>> -- "Ignition! An Informal History of Liquid Rocket
> >> >>> Propellants", John Drury Clarke, Rutgers University
> >> >>> Press, 1972, 214 pages. ISBN 00-8135-0725-1
> >> >>>
> >> >> Reminds me of an inquiry into a coal pit fire:
> >> >>
> >> >> Coal cutting machine operator: ".......and then there was a bloody big
> >> >> bang, flames and sparks from the machine"
> >> >>
> >> >> Counsel to the enquiry: "and what steps did you then take"
> >> >>
> >> >> Coal cutting machine operator: "Bloody big ones"
> >> >>
> >> >> The expletives were probably just a tad bit stronger.
> >> >
> >> > Back then there was an article on the "Daily Sketch" about how efficent
> >> > the Russian Coal mines were, the Russians would drill out big holes, set
> >> > the coal on fire, and harvest the gases for fuel somehow. At the time of
> >> > the collapse of the USSR, there was more news, that a snag had appeared,
> >> > there was no real way of putting the fires out, and they still burn.
> >> >
> >> > One example was mentioned, a Russian majority area in Eastern Estonia.
> >> >
> >> > How many years since the daily Sketch closed down?.
> >> >
> >> > I have seen bog fires in Ireland. Once the fire had god down a bit into
> >> > the peat, there was noo real way of putting it out until winter rains
> >>
> >> Yes, can turn up miles away from where it started.
> >>
> >> Bill Bryson, somewhere, mentioned a coal mine in Pennsylvania-I-think
> >> that caught fire manymany years ago and isn't likely to stop till it
> >> runs out..
> >>
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
> >
>
> Interesting The Original story I remembered seemed what was typical
> central planning blooper, where someone who has been put in a State
> position even while being an idiot, makes a major *uckup.
>

The Russkies have their own, gas powered hole.
Darvaza:

https://i.insider.com/50744414ecad04ac2a00001c

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

maus said:
> On 2022-01-05, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> On 05-Jan-22 13:21, Richard Robinson wrote:
>>> maus said:
>>>> On 2022-01-03, Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article <squdl0$1afm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Dennis Davis
>>>>> <dennisdavis@fastmail.fm> on Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 08:54:56 awoke Nicholas
>>>>> from his slumbers and wrote
>>>
>>> Bill Bryson, somewhere, mentioned a coal mine in Pennsylvania-I-think
>>> that caught fire manymany years ago and isn't likely to stop till it
>>> runs out..
>>>
>> A lot of the waste tips at UK coal mines have smouldered away for
>> decades. Of course we aren't adding to the problem anymore.
>
> I wonder what the areas in the US, Australia, and Canada where massive
> amounts of trees have been cut down to produce wood pellets to power the
> Drax boilers, look like now?

It'd probably depend on the local regs re cleanup ? In ways that would
be obvious to start with, but after that, stuff grows in ways that
depend on how the area was left ...

If you don't burn it, it produces methane when it rots. Perhaps we
should Ban Trees ? Bring Back The Goat ?

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On 2022-01-08, Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
> maus said:
>> On 2022-01-05, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>> On 05-Jan-22 13:21, Richard Robinson wrote:
>>>> maus said:
>>>>> On 2022-01-03, Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <squdl0$1afm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Dennis Davis
>>>>>> <dennisdavis@fastmail.fm> on Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 08:54:56 awoke Nicholas
>>>>>> from his slumbers and wrote
>>>>
>>>> Bill Bryson, somewhere, mentioned a coal mine in Pennsylvania-I-think
>>>> that caught fire manymany years ago and isn't likely to stop till it
>>>> runs out..
>>>>
>>> A lot of the waste tips at UK coal mines have smouldered away for
>>> decades. Of course we aren't adding to the problem anymore.
>>
>> I wonder what the areas in the US, Australia, and Canada where massive
>> amounts of trees have been cut down to produce wood pellets to power the
>> Drax boilers, look like now?
>
> It'd probably depend on the local regs re cleanup ? In ways that would
> be obvious to start with, but after that, stuff grows in ways that
> depend on how the area was left ...
>
> If you don't burn it, it produces methane when it rots. Perhaps we
> should Ban Trees ? Bring Back The Goat ?
>

depends. The Anti-Global-Warming people in california are blaming the
wildfires on regulations that were brought in a few years ago, banning
the cutting-back of trees and shrubs under power lines, because it is
antitree or some other daft reason.

The idea of not cutting back under powerlines seems even dafter than the
other mad things being proposed at the moment.

On 08-Jan-22 18:13, maus wrote:
> On 2022-01-08, Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>> maus said:
>>> On 2022-01-05, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>> On 05-Jan-22 13:21, Richard Robinson wrote:
>>>>> maus said:
>>>>>> On 2022-01-03, Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <squdl0$1afm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Dennis Davis
>>>>>>> <dennisdavis@fastmail.fm> on Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 08:54:56 awoke Nicholas
>>>>>>> from his slumbers and wrote
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Bryson, somewhere, mentioned a coal mine in Pennsylvania-I-think
>>>>> that caught fire manymany years ago and isn't likely to stop till it
>>>>> runs out..
>>>>>
>>>> A lot of the waste tips at UK coal mines have smouldered away for
>>>> decades. Of course we aren't adding to the problem anymore.
>>>
>>> I wonder what the areas in the US, Australia, and Canada where massive
>>> amounts of trees have been cut down to produce wood pellets to power the
>>> Drax boilers, look like now?
>>
>> It'd probably depend on the local regs re cleanup ? In ways that would
>> be obvious to start with, but after that, stuff grows in ways that
>> depend on how the area was left ...
>>
>> If you don't burn it, it produces methane when it rots. Perhaps we
>> should Ban Trees ? Bring Back The Goat ?
>>
>
> depends. The Anti-Global-Warming people in california are blaming the
> wildfires on regulations that were brought in a few years ago, banning
> the cutting-back of trees and shrubs under power lines, because it is
> antitree or some other daft reason.
>
> The idea of not cutting back under powerlines seems even dafter than the
> other mad things being proposed at the moment.

Usual reason for not doing something is to save money.

--
Sam Plusnet

On Saturday, January 8, 2022 at 12:13:23 PM UTC-6, maus wrote:
> On 2022-01-08, Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > maus said:
> >> On 2022-01-05, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
> >>> On 05-Jan-22 13:21, Richard Robinson wrote:
> >>>> maus said:
> >>>>> On 2022-01-03, Nicholas D. Richards <nich...@salmiron.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> In article <squdl0$1afm$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Dennis Davis
> >>>>>> <denni...@fastmail.fm> on Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 08:54:56 awoke Nicholas
> >>>>>> from his slumbers and wrote
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill Bryson, somewhere, mentioned a coal mine in Pennsylvania-I-think
> >>>> that caught fire manymany years ago and isn't likely to stop till it
> >>>> runs out..
> >>>>
> >>> A lot of the waste tips at UK coal mines have smouldered away for
> >>> decades. Of course we aren't adding to the problem anymore.
> >>
> >> I wonder what the areas in the US, Australia, and Canada where massive
> >> amounts of trees have been cut down to produce wood pellets to power the
> >> Drax boilers, look like now?
> >
> > It'd probably depend on the local regs re cleanup ? In ways that would
> > be obvious to start with, but after that, stuff grows in ways that
> > depend on how the area was left ...
> >
> > If you don't burn it, it produces methane when it rots. Perhaps we
> > should Ban Trees ? Bring Back The Goat ?
> >
> depends. The Anti-Global-Warming people in california are blaming the
> wildfires on regulations that were brought in a few years ago, banning
> the cutting-back of trees and shrubs under power lines, because it is
> antitree or some other daft reason.
>
> The idea of not cutting back under powerlines seems even dafter than the
> other mad things being proposed at the moment.

How much carbon dioxide is being dumped into
Earth's atmosphere every year?

40,000,000,000 tons. (40 billion). 4E10 Bunch

On 2022-01-08, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> On 2022-01-08, Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>> maus said:
>>> On 2022-01-05, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>> On 05-Jan-22 13:21, Richard Robinson wrote:
>>>>> maus said:
>>>>>> On 2022-01-03, Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <squdl0$1afm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Dennis Davis
>>>>>>> <dennisdavis@fastmail.fm> on Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 08:54:56 awoke Nicholas
>>>>>>> from his slumbers and wrote
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Bryson, somewhere, mentioned a coal mine in Pennsylvania-I-think
>>>>> that caught fire manymany years ago and isn't likely to stop till it
>>>>> runs out..
>>>>>
>>>> A lot of the waste tips at UK coal mines have smouldered away for
>>>> decades. Of course we aren't adding to the problem anymore.
>>>
>>> I wonder what the areas in the US, Australia, and Canada where massive
>>> amounts of trees have been cut down to produce wood pellets to power the
>>> Drax boilers, look like now?
>>
>> It'd probably depend on the local regs re cleanup ? In ways that would
>> be obvious to start with, but after that, stuff grows in ways that
>> depend on how the area was left ...
>>
>> If you don't burn it, it produces methane when it rots. Perhaps we
>> should Ban Trees ? Bring Back The Goat ?
>>
>
> depends. The Anti-Global-Warming people in california are blaming the
> wildfires on regulations that were brought in a few years ago, banning
> the cutting-back of trees and shrubs under power lines, because it is
> antitree or some other daft reason.

They have a point. Fires are an important part of the forest lifecycle.
Well-meaning but uninformed Americans passed laws that banned controlled
burning. As a result detritus built up until when the fires eventually break
out they are devastating and uncontrollable.

I think it's a uniquely American promble. Elsewhere the management of
wildernesses are done by governments.

--
Bernard Peek
bap@shrdlu.com