DECENT SENTENCE FOR DRIVER - JAILED.

A "cowardly" unlicensed driver who ran over and killed a cyclist before fleeing the scene and hiding his van has been locked up for 22 months.

Aaron Rogers, 23 and from Whitchurch, killed 56-year-old local garage owner Ian Edwards when he ran over the stricken cyclist in the middle of the B5476 road at Coton, late on the evening of July 31, 2020.

Sentencing Rogers, Mr Recorder Thomas Moran said the tragedy had been the result of a terrible coincidence.

Mr Edwards had been drinking at the Bull & Dog in Whitchurch with people he had met that evening.

A couple he had met, Joanne Kemp and Robert Thorp, had left the pub on bicycles at around 11.30pm, followed shortly after by Mr Edwards, who caught up with the couple on the road.

Prosecutor Paul Spratt said that the details were not clear but it appeared Mr Edwards had hit the rear wheel of Ms Kemp's bike, causing her to crash towards the verge and him to fall into the carriageway.

Mr Edwards, driving a Vauxhall Astra van, then ran over Mr Edwards, causing injuries which resulted in his death at the scene – despite the valiant attempts of those present to save him.

Recorder Moran said Rogers had driven off, hidden his vehicle for several days and denied he had been the driver after being arrested when police examined CCTV which led them to the 23-year-old.

The court was told that Rodgers said he thought he had "hit a badger", although he had told a friend shortly after the crash that he had run over a man.

Recorder Moran also said that he had been driving the route to avoid detection by police, and that he had been using a mobile phone – on speaker in his lap – some time before he hit Mr Edwards.

The court was told there was no braking before he hit Mr Edwards, only an attempt to swerve and lift off the accelerator.

Mitigating, Paul Smith, for Rogers said: "He says if he could turn the clock back he would do it in a heartbeat."

He added: "The deceased was not unknown to him, or the family, and he wants to say through me that he cannot imagine the pain they are feeling as a family."

"He has not stopped thinking about what happened since."

Addressing Rogers, Recorder Moran said: "For whatever reason Mr Edwards did not have lights on his bike or reflective clothing and when he left the pub at 11.30pm he was travelling on a fairly poorly lit road. As he was cycling home a series of extremely unfortunate and tragic events unfolded.

"He had a collision with another cyclist who had been in the Bull with him. It caused him to fall off and he was lying prone in the road.

"In a terrible coincidence you were also on this road."

He added: "You told a friend because you knew it to be quiet and you were less likely to come into contact with the police, knowing you should not have been on the road at all.

"You car drove into and over Mr Edwards while he was on the floor. He died at the scene.

"Every effort was made to save him by a number of people, including obtaining a defibrillator. When I say every effort I mean by a number of people, your actions were in sharp contrast to those who tried to save him.

"You simply drove off. That was a despicable and cowardly thing to do."

Rogers, of Smallbrook Road, Whitchurch, was sentenced to a total of 22 months in prison after admitting admitting causing death by driving while uninsured and without a licence, and a section 51 offence of failing to stop.

This was made up of six months each on the charges of driving while uninsured and without a licence, both of which will run concurrently, four months for failing to stop to run concurrently, and also 16 months to run consecutively for the breach of a 21-month suspended sentence order.

He was also disqualified from driving for two years and 11 months.

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/crime/2022/03/17/unlicensed-driver-jailed-after-running-over-and-killing-crashed-cyclist/

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 7:06:09 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> DECENT SENTENCE FOR DRIVER - JAILED.

>
> He was also disqualified from driving for two years and 11 months.

The criminal driver has already shown his contempt for the law by killing someone while he was already banned - he deserved longer in jail rather than yet another ban.

On 17/03/2022 07:06 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> DECENT SENTENCE FOR DRIVER - JAILED.
>
> A "cowardly" unlicensed driver who ran over and killed a cyclist before fleeing the scene and hiding his van has been locked up for 22 months.

There is no such thing as an unlicenced (nor even an unlicensed) driver.

He was a fairy-cyclist. It's all he was qualified for: fairy-cycling and
nothing more than that.

> Aaron Rogers, 23 and from Whitchurch, killed 56-year-old local garage owner Ian Edwards when he ran over the stricken cyclist in the middle of the B5476 road at Coton, late on the evening of July 31, 2020.
> Sentencing Rogers, Mr Recorder Thomas Moran said the tragedy had been the result of a terrible coincidence.
> Mr Edwards had been drinking at the Bull & Dog in Whitchurch with people he had met that evening.
> A couple he had met, Joanne Kemp and Robert Thorp, had left the pub on bicycles at around 11.30pm, followed shortly after by Mr Edwards, who caught up with the couple on the road.
> Prosecutor Paul Spratt said that the details were not clear but it appeared Mr Edwards had hit the rear wheel of Ms Kemp's bike, causing her to crash towards the verge and him to fall into the carriageway.
> Mr Edwards, driving a Vauxhall Astra van, then ran over Mr Edwards, causing injuries which resulted in his death at the scene – despite the valiant attempts of those present to save him.
> Recorder Moran said Rogers had driven off, hidden his vehicle for several days and denied he had been the driver after being arrested when police examined CCTV which led them to the 23-year-old.
> The court was told that Rodgers said he thought he had "hit a badger", although he had told a friend shortly after the crash that he had run over a man.
> Recorder Moran also said that he had been driving the route to avoid detection by police, and that he had been using a mobile phone – on speaker in his lap – some time before he hit Mr Edwards.
> The court was told there was no braking before he hit Mr Edwards, only an attempt to swerve and lift off the accelerator.
> Mitigating, Paul Smith, for Rogers said: "He says if he could turn the clock back he would do it in a heartbeat."
> He added: "The deceased was not unknown to him, or the family, and he wants to say through me that he cannot imagine the pain they are feeling as a family."
> "He has not stopped thinking about what happened since."
> Addressing Rogers, Recorder Moran said: "For whatever reason Mr Edwards did not have lights on his bike or reflective clothing and when he left the pub at 11.30pm he was travelling on a fairly poorly lit road. As he was cycling home a series of extremely unfortunate and tragic events unfolded.
> "He had a collision with another cyclist who had been in the Bull with him. It caused him to fall off and he was lying prone in the road.
> "In a terrible coincidence you were also on this road."
> He added: "You told a friend because you knew it to be quiet and you were less likely to come into contact with the police, knowing you should not have been on the road at all.
> "You car drove into and over Mr Edwards while he was on the floor. He died at the scene.
> "Every effort was made to save him by a number of people, including obtaining a defibrillator. When I say every effort I mean by a number of people, your actions were in sharp contrast to those who tried to save him.
> "You simply drove off. That was a despicable and cowardly thing to do."
> Rogers, of Smallbrook Road, Whitchurch, was sentenced to a total of 22 months in prison after admitting admitting causing death by driving while uninsured and without a licence, and a section 51 offence of failing to stop.
> This was made up of six months each on the charges of driving while uninsured and without a licence, both of which will run concurrently, four months for failing to stop to run concurrently, and also 16 months to run consecutively for the breach of a 21-month suspended sentence order.
> He was also disqualified from driving for two years and 11 months.
>
> https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/crime/2022/03/17/unlicensed-driver-jailed-after-running-over-and-killing-crashed-cyclist/

It is interesting that there appears to be no particular overt or
implicit criticism by the court or prosecution of his standard of
control of the vehicle, even though he was not a driver and was only a
fairy-cyclist. Not even a "driving" without due care and attention, let
alone a causing death while "driving" without due car and attention.

The offences with which he was charged included (but were not limited
to) the administrative offences which are automatically committed by any
fairy-cyclist who is not a driver when they attempt to drive rather than
stick to their fairy-cycle:

- causing death by "driving" while uninsured
- causing death while "driving" without a licence
- failing to stop
- "driving" while uninsured and
- "driving" without a licence.

On 17/03/2022 07:40 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 7:06:09 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

>> DECENT SENTENCE FOR FAIRY-CYCLIST - JAILED.
>
>> He was also disqualified from driving for two years and 11 months.
>
> The criminal fairy-cyclist has already shown his contempt for the law by killing someone while he was already banned - he deserved longer in jail rather than yet another ban.

FIFY.

No charge.

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 7:06:09 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

More details from an alternative news source that allows reader's comments.
From the killer driver's local rag:

A WHITCHURCH man who left a much-loved cyclist for dead in the road in what a judge called 'despicable and cowardly' behaviour has been jailed for 22 months.

Aaron Rogers, 23, of Smallbrook Road, was sentenced at Shrewsbury Crown Court on Thursday for two counts of causing death by failing to have insurance and a licence, as well as failing to stop at the scene of an accident.

He admitted colliding with 58-year-old Ian Edwards, who was riding home after drinking in a nearby pub, on the B5476 in Coton on July 30, 2020.

Rogers, who initially denied all responsibility at his first police interview, drove over Mr Edwards's body after failing to brake when flagged down by nearby cyclists.

The court heard the victim was left in the road after colliding with Joanne Kemp, a cyclist with whom he had been having drink, along with her partner, at the Dog and Bull in Coton.

Ms Kemp was on the nearside of the road but Mr Edwards fell into the middle of the carriageway while his part-electric bike landed on the other side.

Rogers then approached the road, claiming he was driving at 55mph, but on seeing Ms Kemp wave at him to stop, he failed to use his brakes but de-accelerated and swerved her.

This meant he drove over Mr Edwards' midriff, causing 'significant and catastrophic' damage which resulted in him dying at the scene.

The court heard that Rogers failed to stop and later admitted in a call to a friend that he thought he' driven over a man', but then later claimed he thought it was a badger.

It was also told that Rogers used the quieter road to avoid detection by police, and later hid the van at a chapel car park in Shropshire before returning to claim it three days later.

He was eventually arrested and only began to admit the offence in his second interview. He had been using his phone at about the time of the incident, but the court heard that there was no evidence he had been doing so at the exact time of the collision.

Mr Recorder Moran, sentencing, said he had to take into consideration a 21-month suspended sentence for actual bodily harm from February 2020 but awarded Rogers 25 per cent credit for pleading guilty, though criticised the timing of the new plea on the day of his trial.

He said: "Looking at the overall picture, you offered those charges on the day of trial but could have been offered earlier.

"You accept there was a degree of fault by your guilty plea to two charges.

"Your driving while uninsured and unqualified led to the death of Mr Edwards – you shouldn’t have been driving at all.

"He was not intended to drive home and had a bike, with a number of people doing the same thing.

"However, they didn’t have lights or reflective and they were travelling on a fairly poorly-lit road.

"In a series of unfortunate and tragic events, he had a collision with another cyclist he’d been with and was left prone in the road.

"In a terrible coincidence you were driving on this road at the same time.

"You drove over Mr Edwards as he lay on the floor and he died there – every effort was made to save him by other people.

"Your actions were the opposite of the actions of those who tried to save.

“You drove on and it was despicably cowardly thing to do."

Rogers was jailed for six months, concurrently, for two offences, and four months for failing to stop – also concurrently – but will serve 16 months of his suspended sentence consecutively.

He was also disqualified from driving for two years and 11 months.

https://www.whitchurchherald.co.uk/news/20000420.whitchurch-man-jailed-22-months-death-ian-edwards/

On 17/03/2022 08:06 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 7:06:09 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> More details from an alternative news source that allows reader's comments.
> From the killer driver's local rag:
> A WHITCHURCH man who left a much-loved cyclist for dead in the road in what a judge called 'despicable and cowardly' behaviour has been jailed for 22 months.
> Aaron Rogers, 23, of Smallbrook Road, was sentenced at Shrewsbury Crown Court on Thursday for two counts of causing death by failing to have insurance and a licence, as well as failing to stop at the scene of an accident.
> He admitted colliding with 58-year-old Ian Edwards, who was riding home after drinking in a nearby pub, on the B5476 in Coton on July 30, 2020.
> Rogers, who initially denied all responsibility at his first police interview, drove over Mr Edwards's body after failing to brake when flagged down by nearby cyclists.
> The court heard the victim was left in the road after colliding with Joanne Kemp, a cyclist with whom he had been having drink, along with her partner, at the Dog and Bull in Coton.
> Ms Kemp was on the nearside of the road but Mr Edwards fell into the middle of the carriageway while his part-electric bike landed on the other side.
> Rogers then approached the road, claiming he was driving at 55mph, but on seeing Ms Kemp wave at him to stop, he failed to use his brakes but de-accelerated and swerved her.

He changed course to avoid hitting a pedestrian (or maybe a cyclist
astride her bicycle) who had moved into his path (that is the only
reasonable construction which can be placed on that passage) and in
doing so, hit a man who was already lying in the road. See below re
standard of lighting.

This very possibly explains why there were no charges of careless or
dangerous driving, only the offences relating to simple lack of a
licence and insurance (if those charges can be called simple).

Oddly, there doesn't even seem to be a reported charge of "driving"
while disqualified. So perhaps he wasn't disqualified and was just a
fairy-cyclist, which is why he didn't have a licence.

> This meant he drove over Mr Edwards' midriff, causing 'significant and catastrophic' damage which resulted in him dying at the scene.
> The court heard that Rogers failed to stop and later admitted in a call to a friend that he thought he' driven over a man', but then later claimed he thought it was a badger.
> It was also told that Rogers used the quieter road to avoid detection by police, and later hid the van at a chapel car park in Shropshire before returning to claim it three days later.
> He was eventually arrested and only began to admit the offence in his second interview. He had been using his phone at about the time of the incident, but the court heard that there was no evidence he had been doing so at the exact time of the collision.
> Mr Recorder Moran, sentencing, said he had to take into consideration a 21-month suspended sentence for actual bodily harm from February 2020 but awarded Rogers 25 per cent credit for pleading guilty, though criticised the timing of the new plea on the day of his trial.
> He said: "Looking at the overall picture, you offered those charges on the day of trial but could have been offered earlier.
> "You accept there was a degree of fault by your guilty plea to two charges.
> "Your driving while uninsured and unqualified led to the death of Mr Edwards – you shouldn’t have been driving at all.

"you shouldn't have been driving at all"

Quite.

> "He was not intended to drive home and had a bike, with a number of people doing the same thing.
> "However, they didn’t have lights or reflective and they were travelling on a fairly poorly-lit road.

"fairly poorly lit road"

> "In a series of unfortunate and tragic events, he had a collision with another cyclist he’d been with and was left prone in the road.
> "In a terrible coincidence you were driving on this road at the same time.
> "You drove over Mr Edwards as he lay on the floor and he died there – every effort was made to save him by other people.
> "Your actions were the opposite of the actions of those who tried to save.
> “You drove on and it was despicably cowardly thing to do."
> Rogers was jailed for six months, concurrently, for two offences, and four months for failing to stop – also concurrently – but will serve 16 months of his suspended sentence consecutively.
> He was also disqualified from driving for two years and 11 months.

> https://www.whitchurchherald.co.uk/news/20000420.whitchurch-man-jailed-22-months-death-ian-edwards/

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 7:06:09 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> DECENT SENTENCE FOR DRIVER - JAILED.

NOW ON ROAD.CC

An unlicensed driver who ran over a cyclist before fleeing the scene and attempting to hide his vehicle has been sentenced to 22 months in prison, alongside a two year and 11 month driving ban.

23-year-old Aaron Rogers, from Whitchurch in Shropshire, killed 56-year-old Ian Edwards on the evening of July 21 2020 when he hit him with a Vauxhall Astra Van, reports the Shropshire Star (link is external).

Although the details were not clear according to the prosecutor, Mr Edwards is said to have been drinking at the Bull & Dog pub in Whitchurch that evening, and left shortly after a couple he had been drinking with at around 11.30pm. The couple, Joanne Kemp and Robert Thorp, left on bikes, and Mr Edwards also cycled away from the pub to catch up with them.

Rejoining the pair on the B5476, it was said that Mr Edwards hit the rear wheel of Ms Kemp's bike, which caused her to crash and him to fall into the road.

Rogers' van then struck Mr Edwards, who died at the scene as a result of his injuries despite efforts to save him. The recorder described it as a "terrible coincidence" that Mr Edwards happened to fall into the road at the moment Rogers was driving illegally on the carriageway.

The recorder said that after driving away from the scene, Rogers hid his vehicle for a number of days. He was arrested after police examinded CCTV, and initially denied he was driving; although the court heard that he told a friend soon after the incident that he had run a man over.

The court also heard that unlicensed Rogers had been using a mobile phone that was on speaker on his lap shortly before he hit Mr Edwards, and that he was driving along the quiet B road to avoid being detected by police.

The recorder said to Rogers: "For whatever reason Mr Edwards did not have lights on his bike or reflective clothing and when he left the pub at 11.30pm he was travelling on a fairly poorly lit road. As he was cycling home a series of extremely unfortunate and tragic events unfolded.

"He had a collision with another cyclist who had been in the Bull with him. It caused him to fall off and he was lying prone in the road.

"In a terrible coincidence you were also on this road.

"You told a friend because you knew it to be quiet and you were less likely to come into contact with the police, knowing you should not have been on the road at all.

"You car drove into and over Mr Edwards while he was on the floor. He died at the scene.

"Every effort was made to save him by a number of people, including obtaining a defibrillator. When I say every effort I mean by a number of people, your actions were in sharp contrast to those who tried to save him.

"You simply drove off. That was a despicable and cowardly thing to do."

Mitigating for Rogers, Paul Smith said: "He says if he could turn the clock back he would do it in a heartbeat.

"The deceased was not unknown to him, or the family, and he wants to say through me that he cannot imagine the pain they are feeling as a family.

"He has not stopped thinking about what happened since."

Rogers admitted to causing death by driving while uninsured and without licence, and failing to stop. His sentence of 22 months was made up of six months each for driving while uninsured and without licence, both running concurrently, four months for failing to stop, running concurrently, and 16 months running consecutively for the breach of a 21-month suspended sentence order.

Unlicensed Rogers was also disqualified from driving for two years and 11 months.

https://road.cc/content/news/22-months-cowardly-driver-who-lied-police-291201

On 19/03/2022 02:52 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 7:06:09 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

>> DECENT SENTENCE FOR FAIRY-CYCLIST - JAILED.
>
> NOW ON ROAD.CC
>
> An fairy-cyclist who ran over a cyclist before fleeing the scene and attempting to hide his vehicle has been sentenced to 22 months in prison, alongside a two year and 11 month driving ban.
>
> 23-year-old Aaron Rogers, from Whitchurch in Shropshire, killed 56-year-old Ian Edwards on the evening of July 21 2020 when he hit him with a Vauxhall Astra Van, reports the Shropshire Star (link is external).
>
> Although the details were not clear according to the prosecutor, Mr Edwards is said to have been drinking at the Bull & Dog pub in Whitchurch that evening, and left shortly after a couple he had been drinking with at around 11.30pm. The couple, Joanne Kemp and Robert Thorp, left on bikes, and Mr Edwards also cycled away from the pub to catch up with them.
>
> Rejoining the pair on the B5476, it was said that Mr Edwards hit the rear wheel of Ms Kemp's bike, which caused her to crash and him to fall into the road.
>
> Rogers' van then struck Mr Edwards, who died at the scene as a result of his injuries despite efforts to save him. The recorder described it as a "terrible coincidence" that Mr Edwards happened to fall into the road at the moment Rogers was driving illegally on the carriageway.
>
> The recorder said that after driving away from the scene, Rogers hid his vehicle for a number of days. He was arrested after police examinded CCTV, and initially denied he was driving; although the court heard that he told a friend soon after the incident that he had run a man over.
>
> The court also heard that unlicensed Rogers had been using a mobile phone that was on speaker on his lap shortly before he hit Mr Edwards, and that he was driving along the quiet B road to avoid being detected by police.
>
> The recorder said to Rogers: "For whatever reason Mr Edwards did not have lights on his bike or reflective clothing and when he left the pub at 11.30pm he was travelling on a fairly poorly lit road. As he was cycling home a series of extremely unfortunate and tragic events unfolded.
>
> "He had a collision with another cyclist who had been in the Bull with him. It caused him to fall off and he was lying prone in the road.
>
> "In a terrible coincidence you were also on this road.
>
> "You told a friend because you knew it to be quiet and you were less likely to come into contact with the police, knowing you should not have been on the road at all.
>
> "You car drove into and over Mr Edwards while he was on the floor. He died at the scene.
>
> "Every effort was made to save him by a number of people, including obtaining a defibrillator. When I say every effort I mean by a number of people, your actions were in sharp contrast to those who tried to save him.
>
> "You simply drove off. That was a despicable and cowardly thing to do."
>
> Mitigating for Rogers, Paul Smith said: "He says if he could turn the clock back he would do it in a heartbeat.
>
> "The deceased was not unknown to him, or the family, and he wants to say through me that he cannot imagine the pain they are feeling as a family.
>
> "He has not stopped thinking about what happened since."
>
> Rogers admitted to causing death by driving while uninsured and without licence, and failing to stop. His sentence of 22 months was made up of six months each for driving while uninsured and without licence, both running concurrently, four months for failing to stop, running concurrently, and 16 months running consecutively for the breach of a 21-month suspended sentence order.
>
> Unlicensed Rogers was also disqualified from driving for two years and 11 months.
>
> https://road.cc/content/news/22-months-cowardly-driver-who-lied-police-291201

He was a fairy-cyclist.

That is all he was qualified for.

JustTryingToGet... | 103 posts | 2 hours ago
4 likes

Regardless of whether there is enough evidence to prove to the standard of a court whether he contributed to the poor man's death, I don't understand why penalties are so low for such serious and dangerous crimes.

On top of that, I suspect a competent driver that wasn't using a mobile when driving may have been better equipped to avoid running someone over.

Another piece of shit gets away with adding to the KSI statistics.

QUITE.

On 19/03/2022 14:52, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> The recorder said to Rogers: "For whatever reason Mr Edwards did not have lights on his bike or reflective clothing and when he

he was travelling on a fairly poorly lit road. As he was cycling home a
series of extremely unfortunate and tragic events unfolded.

> "He had a collision with another cyclist who had been in the Bull with him. It caused him to fall off and he was lying prone in the road.

The deadly cocktail...

left the pub at 11.30pm
did not have lights
or reflective clothing
on a fairly poorly lit road
and had a collision with another cyclist

No mention of his wearing a helmet.

--
Spike

On Sunday, 20 March 2022 at 09:59:31 UTC, Spike wrote:

> The deadly cocktail...

Allowing motorists who cannot follow the simple rule of being able to stop within the distance you see to be clear on our roads.

On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 11:20:51 AM UTC, Mike Collins wrote:

> Allowing motorists who cannot follow the simple rule of being able to stop within the distance you see to be clear on our roads.

reply quote

Avatar
IanGlasgow | 205 posts | 22 hours ago
17 likes

22 months for killing a cyclist seems lenient.
Then you read the details...

16 months is a previous suspended sentence.
He only got 6 months in total for; driving without insurance, driving without a licence, and failing to stop.
He got nothing for killing a cyclist. Nothing.
No penalty for dangerous or careless driving. Not even for using a mobile phone.
No charge of manslaughter.
He fled the scene, hid his vehicle and lied about the incident. Yet no charge of perverting or obstructing justice.

Oh, but don't forget he is banned from driving for 2 years and 11 months. Though he doesn't have a licence so he can't legally drive anyway. So no change there.

On 20/03/2022 11:20 am, Mike Collins wrote:

> On Sunday, 20 March 2022 at 09:59:31 UTC, Spike wrote:
>
>> The deadly cocktail...
>
> Allowing motorists who cannot follow the simple rule of being able to stop within the distance you see to be clear on our roads...

....whereas with cyclists, everything between the words "stop" and "on"
is usually otiose.

Especially when the brakes (if fitted) are not working.

ibena | 197 posts | 6 hours ago
1 like
Why doesn't fleeing the scene of an accident have a very large fixed penalty in addition to the penalty for whatever it is they were trying to cover up by fleeing? Or does it? It all seems a bit of a mystery.

reply quote

Avatar
Bungle_52 replied to ribena | 453 posts | 5 hours ago
1 like

So that if you have no conscience and a good (expensive) lawyer you have a good chance of getting away with it. Same applies to paying income tax and a great many other things in our society. Laws made for and by the rich. Have a look at the lords debate on raising the punishment for failing to stop..

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-11-15/debates/2F33B858-4F79-4... (link is external)

On 20/03/2022 11:20, Mike Collins wrote:
> On Sunday, 20 March 2022 at 09:59:31 UTC, Spike wrote:

>> The deadly cocktail...

>> left the pub at 11.30pm
>> did not have lights
>> or reflective clothing
>> on a fairly poorly lit road
>> and had a collision with another cyclist

> Allowing motorists who cannot follow the simple rule of being able to stop within the distance you see to be clear on our roads
So, lying on a road, in the dark, wearing dark clothes, having no lights
on the crashed bicycle, and no hi-vis vest is very likely to make one
invisible.

Was there anything else that the unfortunate person could have done to
conceal his presence on the road?

--
Spike

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 7:06:09 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> DECENT SENTENCE FOR DRIVER - JAILED.
Sadly if he was willing to drive without a licence etc. a lifetime ban would be completely ineffective. Sad? Certainly but that's one of the reasons such bans aren't handed out

reply quote

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to jaymack | 8422 posts | 1 day ago
12 likes

jaymack wrote:

Sadly if he was willing to drive without a licence etc. a lifetime ban would be completely ineffective. Sad? Certainly but that's one of the reasons such bans aren't handed out

Alternatively, they should hand out lifetime bans like candy and any time that the person is caught driving unlicensed, they get a immediate 5 year prison sentence. Alternatively, we carry on with needless deaths on the roads caused by selfish entitled assholes.

QUITE SO.

On 21/03/2022 11:09 am, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 7:06:09 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

[ie, Mason replies to mason]

>> DECENT SENTENCE FOR FAIRY-CYCLIST - JAILED.

> Sadly if he was willing to drive whilst being only a fairy-cyclist etc. a lifetime ban would be completely ineffective. Sad? Certainly but that's one of the reasons such bans aren't handed out
>
> hawkinspeter replied to jaymack | 8422 posts | 1 day ago
>
> jaymack wrote:
>
> Sadly if he was willing to drive without a licence etc. a lifetime ban would be completely ineffective. Sad? Certainly but that's one of the reasons such bans aren't handed out
>
> Alternatively, they should hand out lifetime bans like candy and any time that a licenced fairy-cyclist is caught attempting to drive a motor vehicle (whilst being qualified and skilled only as a fairy-cyclist and nothing more), they get a [sic] immediate 5 year prison sentence. Alternatively, we carry on with needless deaths on the roads caused by selfish entitled assholes (a/k/a qualified fairy-cyclists).
>
> QUITE SO.

You agree with yourself, do you? :-)

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 2:53:00 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

Burt the bike! - ex-urc member says:

eburtthebike replied to Grahamd | 2999 posts | 1 day ago
4 likes
Grahamd wrote:

I recognise your comments and the innocent until proven guilty premise, but there remains a fundamental flaw. He should not have been driving, his guilt of that is unquestionable. If we start with the premise that having a licence recognises that you have acquired a certain a level of competence, then not having one indicates you have not yet reached that standard, or previously have and shown such disregard of the rules that you have lost it.. This should be the default starting position, the driver was not fit to drive and so should be charged accordingly. Whether anything can be proven is a different matter.

Excellent points, and there is also the fact that he wouldn't have been on that road if he hadn't been illegal and avoiding the police.

On 21/03/2022 01:59 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> swldx...@gmail.com wrote (talking to himself yet again):
>
> Burt the bike! - ex-urc member says:
> eburtthebike replied to Grahamd | 2999 posts | 1 day ago

> Grahamd wrote:
> I recognise your comments and the innocent until proven guilty premise, but there remains a fundamental flaw. He should not have been driving, his guilt of that is unquestionable. If we start with the premise that having a licence recognises that you have acquired a certain a level of competence, then not having one indicates you have not yet reached that standard, or previously have and shown such disregard of the rules that you have lost it. This should be the default starting position, the driver was not fit to drive and so should be charged accordingly. Whether anything can be proven is a different matter.
>
> Excellent points, and there is also the fact that he wouldn't have been on that road if he hadn't been illegal and avoiding the police.

You are both right.

He should - at most - have been riding a fairy-cycle.

After all, that's all he is - a mere fairy-cyclist. That's all his
qualifications er... qualify him for.

On 21/03/2022 11:09, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> Alternatively, they should hand out lifetime bans like candy and any time that the person is caught driving unlicensed, they get a immediate 5 year prison sentence. Alternatively, we carry on with needless deaths on the roads caused by selfish entitled assholes.

Yes, 'selfish entitled assholes' - it's high time something was done
about cyclists.

--
Spike

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 1:59:48 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 2:53:00 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Burt the bike! - ex-urc member says:
>
> eburtthebike replied to Grahamd | 2999 posts | 1 day ago
> 4 likes
>
> Grahamd wrote:
>
> I recognise your comments and the innocent until proven guilty premise, but there remains a fundamental flaw. He should not have been driving, his guilt of that is unquestionable. If we start with the premise that having a licence recognises that you have acquired a certain a level of competence, then not having one indicates you have not yet reached that standard, or previously have and shown such disregard of the rules that you have lost it. This should be the default starting position, the driver was not fit to drive and so should be charged accordingly. Whether anything can be proven is a different matter.
>
>
> Excellent points, and there is also the fact that he wouldn't have been on that road if he hadn't been illegal and avoiding the police.

Flintshire Boy | 271 posts | 1 day ago
2 likes

Utter disgrace of a sentence. Well said - SM.

On 21/03/2022 05:12 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 1:59:48 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 2:53:00 PM UTC, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

Three levels of talking to yourself again!
>
>> Burt the bike! - ex-urc member says:
>
>> Grahamd wrote:
>
>> I recognise your comments and the innocent until proven guilty premise, but there remains a fundamental flaw. He should not have been driving, his guilt of that is unquestionable. If we start with the premise that having a licence recognises that you have acquired a certain a level of competence, then not having one indicates you have not yet reached that standard, or previously have and shown such disregard of the rules that you have lost it. This should be the default starting position, the driver was not fit to drive and so should be charged accordingly. Whether anything can be proven is a different matter.
>>
>> Excellent points, and there is also the fact that he wouldn't have been on that road if he hadn't been illegal and avoiding the police.
>
> Utter disgrace of a sentence. Well said - SM.

If you are saying that fairy-cyclists who try to pretend they are
drivers, though without the necessary skill, tuition, qualification and
experience - not to mention licence and insurance - should be severely
punished, I shall agree with you.

After all, all he was was a fairy-cyclist. Just that and only that.
Nothing more.

NOtotheEU replied to nosferatu1001 | 22 posts | 1 day ago
2 likes
nosferatu1001 wrote:

what's missing is any suggestion that his standard of driving meant he collided. He's shouldn't have been driving, but once he was it doesn't mean he is automatically responsible for everything that hsppened.

That's what makes everyone so angry. It's true that legaly It doesn't mean he is automatically responsible for everything that happened. Maybe it's time that the law was changed to say you are automatically responsible for anything that happens if you illegally drive?

On 21/03/2022 17:12, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> Excellent points, and there is also the fact that he wouldn't have been on that road if he hadn't been illegal and avoiding the police.

Rather like the cyclist that was run over, who...

left the pub at 11.30pm
did not have lights
or reflective clothing
on a fairly poorly lit road
and had a collision with another cyclist

--
Spike

On 22/03/22 05:59, Spike wrote:
> On 21/03/2022 11:09, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Alternatively, they should hand out lifetime bans like candy and any time that the person is caught driving unlicensed, they get a immediate 5 year prison sentence. Alternatively, we carry on with needless deaths on the roads caused by selfish entitled assholes.
>
> Yes, 'selfish entitled assholes' - it's high time something was done
> about cyclists.
>
Do it then.