On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
> https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-
> australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact
>
> France recalled its ambassadors to the United States and Australia in
> response to a pact signed by the two countries along with the United
> Kingdom that the French referred to as a stab in the back.
>
> "At the request of President Macron, I have decided to immediately recall
> our ambassadors to the United States and Australia to Paris for
> consultations," French Minister for Europe and Foreign Affairs Jean-Yves
> Le Drain said in a statement Friday.
>
> MACRON HAILS DEATH OF ISIS TERRORIST WHO KILLED US TROOPS AS MAJOR WIN
>
> France has expressed outrage after an announcement this week of a pact
> between Australia, the United Kingdom, and the U.S. that will provide
> nuclear submarines to Australia and scrap an agreement previously made to
> send French-made submarines to Australia.
>
> "The abandonment of the ocean-class submarine project that Australia and
> France had been working on since 2016 and the announcement of a new
> partnership with the United States aimed at studying the possibility of
> future cooperation on nuclear-powered submarines constitute unacceptable
> behavior among allies and partners; their consequences affect the very
> concept we have of our alliances, our partnerships, and the importance of
> the Indo-Pacific for Europe," the statement added.
>
> FRANCE ISSUES ANGRY RESPONSE TO NUCLEAR SUBMARINE DEAL BETWEEN US, UK,
> AUSTRALIA
>
> Earlier in the week, Le Drain told a French radio station that the pact,
> known as AUKUS and widely perceived as a challenge to China�s presence in
> the region, was a "stab in the back" and that France had been "betrayed."
>
> Le Drain also compared President Biden to former President Trump.
>
> "This brutal, unilateral and unpredictable decision reminds me a lot of
> what Mr. Trump used to do," Le Drian said. "I am angry and bitter. This
> isn't done between allies."
>
> CLICK TO GET THE FOX NEWS APP
>
> White House press secretary Jen Psaki denied that the move had created a
> "regional divide" and said that France was notified of the deal prior to
> the announcement.
>
> A White House official told Fox News that the Biden administration
> "regrets" France's decision but "will continue to be engaged in the coming
> days to resolve our differences."
>
>
>

So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.

In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
1) US Seawolf Class
2) US Virginia Class

The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

Cross postings trimmed.

On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
<keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
<https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
https://is.gd/jZN33y
>
>So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>
>In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
>1) US Seawolf Class
>2) US Virginia Class
>
>The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>
>Cross postings trimmed.
>
The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
latest nuclear submarine.
--
Petzl
The problem with socialism is that you
eventually run out of other people's money.

On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
> <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
> <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
> https://is.gd/jZN33y
>>
>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>
>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
>> 1) US Seawolf Class
>> 2) US Virginia Class
>>
>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>
>> Cross postings trimmed.
>>
> The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
> charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
> latest nuclear submarine.
>
The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
it out to tender and buying already working subs.

On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
>> <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>> <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
>>
>>      https://is.gd/jZN33y
>>>
>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>
>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
>>> 1) US Seawolf Class
>>> 2) US Virginia Class
>>>
>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>>
>>> Cross postings trimmed.
>>>
>> The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
>> charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
>> latest nuclear submarine.
>>
> The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
> went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
> it out to tender and buying already working subs.

And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time
blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
what they'd intitially agreed to do.

On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 08:37:30 +1000, Dechucka <Dechucka1@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
>> <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>> <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
>> https://is.gd/jZN33y
>>>
>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>
>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
>>> 1) US Seawolf Class
>>> 2) US Virginia Class
>>>
>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>>
>>> Cross postings trimmed.
>>>
>> The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
>> charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
>> latest nuclear submarine.
>>
>The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
>went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
>it out to tender and buying already working subs.
>
Correct but France treat Australia NZ like fools so the French should
never of been in the equation,
--
Petzl
We know the Dumb3 are lying,
they know they are lying,
they know we know they are lying,
we know they know we know they are lying,
but they are still lying. Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn

On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:19:52 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
wrote:

>On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
>> On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
>>> <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>>> <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
>>>
>>>      https://is.gd/jZN33y
>>>>
>>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>>
>>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
>>>> 1) US Seawolf Class
>>>> 2) US Virginia Class
>>>>
>>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>>>
>>>> Cross postings trimmed.
>>>>
>>> The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
>>> charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
>>> latest nuclear submarine.
>>>
>> The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
>> went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
>> it out to tender and buying already working subs.
>
>And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time
>blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
>what they'd intitially agreed to do.
>
The deal was a complete scam. France started making making (with $AU)
Suffren class completing it in 2020, there is no doubt they were
trying to stiff Australia with their clapped out expired subs refitted
with diesel engines.
ScoMo got wind of this and nicley told the French to FOAD!
--
Petzl
We know the Dumb3 are lying,
they know they are lying,
they know we know they are lying,
we know they know we know they are lying,
but they are still lying. Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn

On 28/09/2021 9:19 am, Fran wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
>> On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
>>> <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>>> <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
>>>
>>>      https://is.gd/jZN33y
>>>>
>>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>>
>>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
>>>> 1) US Seawolf Class
>>>> 2) US Virginia Class
>>>>
>>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>>>
>>>> Cross postings trimmed.
>>>>
>>> The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
>>> charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
>>> latest nuclear submarine.
>>>
>> The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's
>> Gov went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of
>> putting it out to tender and buying already working subs.
>
> And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time
> blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
> what they'd intitially agreed to do.

To true but that has occurred with a lot of our defence purchases

On 28/09/2021 9:32 am, Petzl wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:19:52 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
>>> On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
>>>> <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>>>> <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
>>>>
>>>>      https://is.gd/jZN33y
>>>>>
>>>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>>>
>>>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
>>>>> 1) US Seawolf Class
>>>>> 2) US Virginia Class
>>>>>
>>>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>>>>
>>>>> Cross postings trimmed.
>>>>>
>>>> The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
>>>> charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
>>>> latest nuclear submarine.
>>>>
>>> The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
>>> went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
>>> it out to tender and buying already working subs.
>>
>> And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time
>> blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
>> what they'd intitially agreed to do.
>>
> The deal was a complete scam. France started making making (with $AU)
> Suffren class completing it in 2020, there is no doubt they were
> trying to stiff Australia with their clapped out expired subs refitted
> with diesel engines.

Really? We weren't buying the actual subs from France they were being
built in Adelaide

> ScoMo got wind of this and nicley told the French to FOAD!

Got wind of what? If what you say is true he should have known as
Treasurer and acted ages ago on it as PM
>

snip

>>> The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
>>> charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
>>> latest nuclear submarine.
>>>
>> The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
>> went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
>> it out to tender and buying already working subs.
>>
> Correct but France treat Australia NZ like fools so the French should
> never of been in the equation,

It was amazing that the free enterprise, love competition LNP didn't
even put this out to tender
>

On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw scribed:

> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>
> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are 1) US
> Seawolf Class 2) US Virginia Class
>
> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

Are any of them quieter than diesel-electric?

> Cross postings trimmed.

On 28/09/2021 10:00 am, News 2021 wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw scribed:
>
>
>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>
>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are 1) US
>> Seawolf Class 2) US Virginia Class
>>
>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>
> Are any of them quieter than diesel-electric?

Nukes in general are quieter as they don't need to use diesels engines
to recharge the batteries.

It was written by Dechucka:

/ snip // crossposting removed /

> It was amazing that the free enterprise, love competition LNP didn't
> even put this out to tender

The dogmatic adherence to "free enterprise" obviously stops when it comes
to deals made for personal pockets (at the present or sometimes later in
the future) or when nudge-nudging actual or potential LNP donors and
their mates.

😵️PS: Yes I know, it happens under Labor too at times but the real
masters of this practice are clearly located withing the fold of the LNP.

--
Ördög - 👹️ - The newsgroup Devil at your service.

Want to see the most spiteful nasties of Australian politics?
Here I show you:

Just look no farther than the Liberal Party of Australia and
its dumb coalition partner:

This is their fundamental ideology (if one can call it that):
Capitalist neo-liberal/libertarian lies and alternate reality,
Lack of compassion for the already downtrodden,
Sociopathic greed & envy,
Endemic nepotistic and plutocratic corruption,
Vicious hunger for power and "born to rule mentality",
Xtian fundamentalism
Never ending misogyny & homophobia
Undeniable Anglo-Celtic racism and supremacy,
Unbridled hate for the underclasses,
Unrelenting vengeance seeking against political opponents...

On 28/09/2021 9:52 am, Dechucka wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 9:32 am, Petzl wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:19:52 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
>>>> On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
>>>>> <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>>>>> <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       https://is.gd/jZN33y
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
>>>>>> 1) US Seawolf Class
>>>>>> 2) US Virginia Class
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cross postings trimmed.
>>>>>>
>>>>> The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
>>>>> charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
>>>>> latest nuclear submarine.
>>>>>
>>>> The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
>>>> went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
>>>> it out to tender and buying already working subs.
>>>
>>> And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time
>>> blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
>>> what they'd intitially agreed to do.
>>>
>> The deal was a complete scam. France started making making (with $AU)
>> Suffren class completing it in 2020, there is no doubt they were
>> trying to stiff Australia with their clapped out expired subs refitted
>> with diesel engines.
>
> Really? We weren't buying the actual subs from France they were being
> built in Adelaide

Hmmm. Not so sure about the 'being built'. That's been just one of the
tensions with France. I got a chuckle out of one of the press reports
that said that 'building' in Adelaide with this sub was akin to building
IKEA furniture at home.
>
>> ScoMo got wind of this and nicley told the French to FOAD!
>
> Got wind of what? If what you say is true he should have known as
> Treasurer and acted ages ago on it as PM

There have been rumblings for a long, long time about maybe going
elsewhere and with very god reason. If the French want to continue to
claim that it's all a surprise to them and Australia blindsided them
with this decision, then they are really only admitting that they are
too arrogant and too obtuse to have noticed all the messages.
correspondence and complaints that Australia has sent their way.

I'm sure you'll remember the kerfuffle that went on when the sub company
was hacked. The dangers arising from that lack of security and why
another country would have grave concerns about something like that
happening, should have sounded real alarm bells. It just kept on a
downward spiral with this deal.

On 28/09/2021 9:48 am, Dechucka wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 9:19 am, Fran wrote:
>> On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
>>> On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
>>>> <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>>>> <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
>>>>
>>>>      https://is.gd/jZN33y
>>>>>
>>>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>>>
>>>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
>>>>> 1) US Seawolf Class
>>>>> 2) US Virginia Class
>>>>>
>>>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>>>>
>>>>> Cross postings trimmed.
>>>>>
>>>> The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
>>>> charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
>>>> latest nuclear submarine.
>>>>
>>> The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's
>>> Gov went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of
>>> putting it out to tender and buying already working subs.
>>
>> And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time
>> blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
>> what they'd intitially agreed to do.
>
> To true but that has occurred with a lot of our defence purchases

True - way back as far as the F111 purchase IIRC, but then not too many
of them also included issues like the hacking incident and the refusal
to sign contracts which should have smartened up the French footwork to
sort out any disagreements and concerns.

On 28/09/2021 9:54 am, Dechucka wrote:
> snip
>
>>>> The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
>>>> charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
>>>> latest nuclear submarine.
>>>>
>>> The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
>>> went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
>>> it out to tender and buying already working subs.
>>>
>> Correct but France treat Australia NZ like fools so the French should
>> never of been in the equation,
>
> It was amazing that the free enterprise, love competition LNP didn't
> even put this out to tender

But for that to happen, you have to have a design/specifications so that
when the tender documents come in you can compare like to like. From
what I've gleaned, I think it was just the defence types looking at what
was our there ie, with German, Japanese and French subs.

On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:52:58 +1000, Dechucka <Dechucka1@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On 28/09/2021 9:32 am, Petzl wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:19:52 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
>>>> On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
>>>>> <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>>>>> <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
>>>>>
>>>>>      https://is.gd/jZN33y
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
>>>>>> 1) US Seawolf Class
>>>>>> 2) US Virginia Class
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cross postings trimmed.
>>>>>>
>>>>> The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
>>>>> charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
>>>>> latest nuclear submarine.
>>>>>
>>>> The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
>>>> went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
>>>> it out to tender and buying already working subs.
>>>
>>> And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time
>>> blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
>>> what they'd intitially agreed to do.
>>>
>> The deal was a complete scam. France started making making (with $AU)
>> Suffren class completing it in 2020, there is no doubt they were
>> trying to stiff Australia with their clapped out expired subs refitted
>> with diesel engines.
>
>Really? We weren't buying the actual subs from France they were being
>built in Adelaide
>
Nonsense the Submarines that France was to reject would perhaps of
been refitted with diesel engines in Adelaide

>> ScoMo got wind of this and nicley told the French to FOAD!
>
>Got wind of what? If what you say is true he should have known as
>Treasurer and acted ages ago on it as PM
>>
Sometimes it becomes "known" with age the Submarines France built with
Australian dollars, but not was this type. Australia were going to pay
big money for French rejects, refitted in Adelaide
<https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/euronaval-2020/2020/10/frances-submarine-game-changer-the-new-suffren-class/>
https://is.gd/ZWofVA
Six new attack submarines will form the vanguard of the French Navy
(Marine Nationale) for the coming decades. Developed (paid for by
Australia) as the Barracuda program, the lead boat of the new class,
Suffren, is expected to formally join the fleet next year. The new
submarines will offer a massive capability leap over the current
Rubis-class boats.

--
Petzl
We know the Dumb3 are lying,
they know they are lying,
they know we know they are lying,
we know they know we know they are lying,
but they are still lying. Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn

On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 12:28:03 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
wrote:

>On 28/09/2021 9:52 am, Dechucka wrote:
>> On 28/09/2021 9:32 am, Petzl wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:19:52 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
>>>>> On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
>>>>>> <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>>>>>> <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       https://is.gd/jZN33y
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>>>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>>>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
>>>>>>> 1) US Seawolf Class
>>>>>>> 2) US Virginia Class
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>>>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>>>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cross postings trimmed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
>>>>>> charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
>>>>>> latest nuclear submarine.
>>>>>>
>>>>> The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
>>>>> went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
>>>>> it out to tender and buying already working subs.
>>>>
>>>> And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time
>>>> blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
>>>> what they'd intitially agreed to do.
>>>>
>>> The deal was a complete scam. France started making making (with $AU)
>>> Suffren class completing it in 2020, there is no doubt they were
>>> trying to stiff Australia with their clapped out expired subs refitted
>>> with diesel engines.
>>
>> Really? We weren't buying the actual subs from France they were being
>> built in Adelaide
>
>Hmmm. Not so sure about the 'being built'. That's been just one of the
>tensions with France. I got a chuckle out of one of the press reports
>that said that 'building' in Adelaide with this sub was akin to building
>IKEA furniture at home.
>>
>>> ScoMo got wind of this and nicley told the French to FOAD!
>>
>> Got wind of what? If what you say is true he should have known as
>> Treasurer and acted ages ago on it as PM
>
>There have been rumblings for a long, long time about maybe going
>elsewhere and with very god reason. If the French want to continue to
>claim that it's all a surprise to them and Australia blindsided them
>with this decision, then they are really only admitting that they are
>too arrogant and too obtuse to have noticed all the messages.
>correspondence and complaints that Australia has sent their way.
>
>I'm sure you'll remember the kerfuffle that went on when the sub company
>was hacked. The dangers arising from that lack of security and why
>another country would have grave concerns about something like that
>happening, should have sounded real alarm bells. It just kept on a
>downward spiral with this deal.
>
Amazing but Fran has got it!!!!
>
--
Petzl
As Winston Churchill once said;

The Monarchy is important,
not for the power it wields,
but for the power it denies others”.

On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 00:00:02 -0000 (UTC), News 2021
<news21@woa.com.au> wrote:

>On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw scribed:
>
>
>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>
>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are 1) US
>> Seawolf Class 2) US Virginia Class
>>
>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>
>Are any of them quieter than diesel-electric?
>
Diesel is not quite the Swedish Kockams were not even quit running
only on electric
The yanks redesigned and made a propeller for them that was super
silient

The new Yank Nuclear submarines can only seen not heard when they are
'surfaced', they can stay underwater indefinitly, only sufacing for
supplies and recreation.
>
>> Cross postings trimmed.

On 28/09/2021 1:02 pm, Petzl wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 00:00:02 -0000 (UTC), News 2021
> <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw scribed:
>>
>>
>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>
>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are 1) US
>>> Seawolf Class 2) US Virginia Class
>>>
>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>
>> Are any of them quieter than diesel-electric?
>>
> Diesel is not quite the Swedish Kockams were not even quit running
> only on electric
> The yanks redesigned and made a propeller for them that was super
> silient
>
> The new Yank Nuclear submarines can only seen not heard when they are
> 'surfaced',

wrong

they can stay underwater indefinitly, only sufacing for
> supplies and recreation.
>>
>>> Cross postings trimmed.

On 28/09/2021 12:51 pm, Petzl wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:52:58 +1000, Dechucka <Dechucka1@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 28/09/2021 9:32 am, Petzl wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:19:52 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
>>>>> On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
>>>>>> <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>>>>>> <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      https://is.gd/jZN33y
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>>>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>>>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
>>>>>>> 1) US Seawolf Class
>>>>>>> 2) US Virginia Class
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>>>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>>>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cross postings trimmed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
>>>>>> charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
>>>>>> latest nuclear submarine.
>>>>>>
>>>>> The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
>>>>> went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
>>>>> it out to tender and buying already working subs.
>>>>
>>>> And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time
>>>> blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
>>>> what they'd intitially agreed to do.
>>>>
>>> The deal was a complete scam. France started making making (with $AU)
>>> Suffren class completing it in 2020, there is no doubt they were
>>> trying to stiff Australia with their clapped out expired subs refitted
>>> with diesel engines.
>>
>> Really? We weren't buying the actual subs from France they were being
>> built in Adelaide
>>
> Nonsense the Submarines that France was to reject would perhaps of
> been refitted with diesel engines in Adelaide

Wrong

>
>>> ScoMo got wind of this and nicley told the French to FOAD!
>>
>> Got wind of what? If what you say is true he should have known as
>> Treasurer and acted ages ago on it as PM
>>>
> Sometimes it becomes "known" with age the Submarines France built with
> Australian dollars, but not was this type. Australia were going to pay
> big money for French rejects, refitted in Adelaide

Wrong

> <https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/euronaval-2020/2020/10/frances-submarine-game-changer-the-new-suffren-class/>
> https://is.gd/ZWofVA
> Six new attack submarines will form the vanguard of the French Navy
> (Marine Nationale) for the coming decades. Developed (paid for by
> Australia) as the Barracuda program, the lead boat of the new class,
> Suffren, is expected to formally join the fleet next year. The new
> submarines will offer a massive capability leap over the current
> Rubis-class boats.
>
>

On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 13:06:35 +1000, Dechucka <Dechucka1@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On 28/09/2021 1:02 pm, Petzl wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 00:00:02 -0000 (UTC), News 2021
>> <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw scribed:
>>>
>>>
>>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>>
>>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are 1) US
>>>> Seawolf Class 2) US Virginia Class
>>>>
>>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>>
>>> Are any of them quieter than diesel-electric?
>>>
>> Diesel is not quite the Swedish Kockams were not even quiet running
>> only on electric
>> The yanks redesigned and made a propeller for them that was super
>> silient
>>
>> The new Yank Nuclear submarines can only seen not heard when they are
>> 'surfaced',
>
>wrong
>
Not what "Our ABC" says
<https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/why-australia-wants-nuclear-submarines/100466204>
https://is.gd/foxKxZ
Big problem for subs not to hit each other

> they can stay underwater indefinitly, only sufacing for
>> supplies and recreation.
>>>
>>>> Cross postings trimmed.
--
Petzl
We know the Dumb3 are lying,
they know they are lying,
they know we know they are lying,
we know they know we know they are lying,
but they are still lying. Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn

On 28/09/2021 1:28 pm, Petzl wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 13:06:35 +1000, Dechucka <Dechucka1@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 28/09/2021 1:02 pm, Petzl wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 00:00:02 -0000 (UTC), News 2021
>>> <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw scribed:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>>>
>>>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are 1) US
>>>>> Seawolf Class 2) US Virginia Class
>>>>>
>>>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>>>
>>>> Are any of them quieter than diesel-electric?
>>>>
>>> Diesel is not quite the Swedish Kockams were not even quiet running
>>> only on electric
>>> The yanks redesigned and made a propeller for them that was super
>>> silient
>>>
>>> The new Yank Nuclear submarines can only seen not heard when they are
>>> 'surfaced',
>>
>> wrong
>>
> Not what "Our ABC" says
> <https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/why-australia-wants-nuclear-submarines/100466204>
> https://is.gd/foxKxZ
> Big problem for subs not to hit each other

Hearing them is only one of the ways of detecting subs

On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 13:49:22 +1000, Dechucka <Dechucka1@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On 28/09/2021 1:28 pm, Petzl wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 13:06:35 +1000, Dechucka <Dechucka1@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/09/2021 1:02 pm, Petzl wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 00:00:02 -0000 (UTC), News 2021
>>>> <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw scribed:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are 1) US
>>>>>> Seawolf Class 2) US Virginia Class
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>>>>
>>>>> Are any of them quieter than diesel-electric?
>>>>>
>>>> Diesel is not quite the Swedish Kockams were not even quiet running
>>>> only on electric
>>>> The yanks redesigned and made a propeller for them that was super
>>>> silient
>>>>
>>>> The new Yank Nuclear submarines can only seen not heard when they are
>>>> 'surfaced',
>>>
>>> wrong
>>>
>> Not what "Our ABC" says
>> <https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/why-australia-wants-nuclear-submarines/100466204>
>> https://is.gd/foxKxZ
>> Big problem for subs not to hit each other
>
>Hearing them is only one of the ways of detecting subs
>
Underwater they are pure stealth not uncommon to crash into each
other.
<https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/day-french-nuclear-missile-submarine-collided-british-nuclear-attack-sub-55062>
https://is.gd/RJmqYU
--
Petzl
We know the Dumb3 are lying,
they know they are lying,
they know we know they are lying,
we know they know we know they are lying,
but they are still lying. Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn

On 28/09/2021 2:21 pm, Petzl wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 13:49:22 +1000, Dechucka <Dechucka1@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 28/09/2021 1:28 pm, Petzl wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 13:06:35 +1000, Dechucka <Dechucka1@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 28/09/2021 1:02 pm, Petzl wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 00:00:02 -0000 (UTC), News 2021
>>>>> <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw scribed:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>>>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>>>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are 1) US
>>>>>>> Seawolf Class 2) US Virginia Class
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>>>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>>>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are any of them quieter than diesel-electric?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Diesel is not quite the Swedish Kockams were not even quiet running
>>>>> only on electric
>>>>> The yanks redesigned and made a propeller for them that was super
>>>>> silient
>>>>>
>>>>> The new Yank Nuclear submarines can only seen not heard when they are
>>>>> 'surfaced',
>>>>
>>>> wrong
>>>>
>>> Not what "Our ABC" says
>>> <https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/why-australia-wants-nuclear-submarines/100466204>
>>> https://is.gd/foxKxZ
>>> Big problem for subs not to hit each other
>>
>> Hearing them is only one of the ways of detecting subs
>>
> Underwater they are pure stealth not uncommon to crash into each
> other.

Not uncommon you mean once

> <https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/day-french-nuclear-missile-submarine-collided-british-nuclear-attack-sub-55062>
> https://is.gd/RJmqYU

Well we can save a fortune, as can the world, by mothballing all that
ASW technology.

Oh your wrong
>

On 28/09/2021 12:54 pm, Petzl wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 12:28:03 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 28/09/2021 9:52 am, Dechucka wrote:
>>> On 28/09/2021 9:32 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:19:52 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
>>>>>> On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
>>>>>>> <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>>>>>>> <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       https://is.gd/jZN33y
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
>>>>>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
>>>>>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
>>>>>>>> 1) US Seawolf Class
>>>>>>>> 2) US Virginia Class
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
>>>>>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
>>>>>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cross postings trimmed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
>>>>>>> charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
>>>>>>> latest nuclear submarine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
>>>>>> went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
>>>>>> it out to tender and buying already working subs.
>>>>>
>>>>> And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time
>>>>> blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
>>>>> what they'd intitially agreed to do.
>>>>>
>>>> The deal was a complete scam. France started making making (with $AU)
>>>> Suffren class completing it in 2020, there is no doubt they were
>>>> trying to stiff Australia with their clapped out expired subs refitted
>>>> with diesel engines.
>>>
>>> Really? We weren't buying the actual subs from France they were being
>>> built in Adelaide
>>
>> Hmmm. Not so sure about the 'being built'. That's been just one of the
>> tensions with France. I got a chuckle out of one of the press reports
>> that said that 'building' in Adelaide with this sub was akin to building
>> IKEA furniture at home.
>>>
>>>> ScoMo got wind of this and nicley told the French to FOAD!
>>>
>>> Got wind of what? If what you say is true he should have known as
>>> Treasurer and acted ages ago on it as PM
>>
>> There have been rumblings for a long, long time about maybe going
>> elsewhere and with very god reason. If the French want to continue to
>> claim that it's all a surprise to them and Australia blindsided them
>> with this decision, then they are really only admitting that they are
>> too arrogant and too obtuse to have noticed all the messages.
>> correspondence and complaints that Australia has sent their way.
>>
>> I'm sure you'll remember the kerfuffle that went on when the sub company
>> was hacked. The dangers arising from that lack of security and why
>> another country would have grave concerns about something like that
>> happening, should have sounded real alarm bells. It just kept on a
>> downward spiral with this deal.
>>
> Amazing but Fran has got it!!!!

What's even more amazing is that you figured that out. Did nursie help
by explaining what I wrote for you?