My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to pressurise the kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water out of his 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode, I forget how much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had assumed it was rain getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the fuel. I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and every last drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank only about 1/5 th of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no sign of a water/kerosine border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours trouble?
Both our tanks are in full sun.

On 22 Dec 2022 at 17:51:28 GMT, "misterroy" <rgdavidson@gmail.com> wrote:

> My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to pressurise the
> kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water out of his
> 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode, I forget how
> much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had assumed it was rain
> getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
> I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the fuel.
> I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and every last
> drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank only about 1/5 th
> of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no sign of a water/kerosine
> border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
> Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours trouble?
> Both our tanks are in full sun.

Our 2400 tank at the old house never gave this problem, and when we had the
1200 tank replaced here with a 2400 one, chummy who did the work and pumped
the oil into a holding tank and said there was no sign of water or grot in the
outgoing tank. So I'd guess your neighbour has a leak somewhere above the
full-line which is letting water get in.

1000 is rather small, IMO. We ran out here once with the smaller tank as I
misjudged how much was left. Also, with a larger tank you can afford to wait
until the price is more suitable.

--
"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the first place." - Douglas Adams

On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 6:02:36 PM UTC, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 22 Dec 2022 at 17:51:28 GMT, "misterroy" <rgdav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to pressurise the
> > kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water out of his
> > 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode, I forget how
> > much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had assumed it was rain
> > getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
> > I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the fuel.
> > I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and every last
> > drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank only about 1/5 th
> > of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no sign of a water/kerosine
> > border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
> > Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours trouble?
> > Both our tanks are in full sun.
> Our 2400 tank at the old house never gave this problem, and when we had the
> 1200 tank replaced here with a 2400 one, chummy who did the work and pumped
> the oil into a holding tank and said there was no sign of water or grot in the
> outgoing tank. So I'd guess your neighbour has a leak somewhere above the
> full-line which is letting water get in.
>
> 1000 is rather small, IMO. We ran out here once with the smaller tank as I
> misjudged how much was left. Also, with a larger tank you can afford to wait
> until the price is more suitable.
>
> --
> "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the first place." - Douglas Adams
How far south are you Tim? We are NW Scotland.
thanks

On 22/12/2022 18:09, misterroy wrote:
> On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 6:02:36 PM UTC, Tim Streater wrote:
>> On 22 Dec 2022 at 17:51:28 GMT, "misterroy" <rgdav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to pressurise the
>>> kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water out of his
>>> 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode, I forget how
>>> much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had assumed it was rain
>>> getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
>>> I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the fuel.
>>> I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and every last
>>> drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank only about 1/5 th
>>> of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no sign of a water/kerosine
>>> border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
>>> Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours trouble?
>>> Both our tanks are in full sun.
>> Our 2400 tank at the old house never gave this problem, and when we had the
>> 1200 tank replaced here with a 2400 one, chummy who did the work and pumped
>> the oil into a holding tank and said there was no sign of water or grot in the
>> outgoing tank. So I'd guess your neighbour has a leak somewhere above the
>> full-line which is letting water get in.
>>
>> 1000 is rather small, IMO. We ran out here once with the smaller tank as I
>> misjudged how much was left. Also, with a larger tank you can afford to wait
>> until the price is more suitable.
>>

> How far south are you Tim? We are NW Scotland.
>
We're in northwest Scotland, too, on the Kyle of Tongue. We had our
original 2000l tank replaced a few years ago with a 2500l one. There did
not appear to be any water or crud accumulation in the old one, and the
new one has been fine so far.

On 22 Dec 2022 at 18:23:03 GMT, "S Viemeister" <firstname@lastname.oc.ku>
wrote:

> On 22/12/2022 18:09, misterroy wrote:
>> On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 6:02:36 PM UTC, Tim Streater wrote:
>>> On 22 Dec 2022 at 17:51:28 GMT, "misterroy" <rgdav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to pressurise the
>>>> kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water out of his
>>>> 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode, I forget how
>>>> much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had assumed it was rain
>>>> getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
>>>> I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the fuel.
>>>> I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and every last
>>>> drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank only about 1/5 th
>>>> of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no sign of a water/kerosine
>>>> border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
>>>> Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours trouble?
>>>> Both our tanks are in full sun.
>>> Our 2400 tank at the old house never gave this problem, and when we had the
>>> 1200 tank replaced here with a 2400 one, chummy who did the work and pumped
>>> the oil into a holding tank and said there was no sign of water or grot in the
>>> outgoing tank. So I'd guess your neighbour has a leak somewhere above the
>>> full-line which is letting water get in.
>>>
>>> 1000 is rather small, IMO. We ran out here once with the smaller tank as I
>>> misjudged how much was left. Also, with a larger tank you can afford to wait
>>> until the price is more suitable.
>>>
>
>> How far south are you Tim? We are NW Scotland.

Kent.

>> We're in northwest Scotland, too, on the Kyle of Tongue. We had our

> original 2000l tank replaced a few years ago with a 2500l one. There did
> not appear to be any water or crud accumulation in the old one, and the
> new one has been fine so far.

--
"People don't buy Microsoft for quality, they buy it for compatibility with what Bob in accounting bought last year. Trace it back - they buy Microsoft because the IBM Selectric didn't suck much" - P Seebach, afc

On Thu, 22 Dec 2022 09:51:28 -0800 (PST), misterroy
<rgdavidson@gmail.com> wrote:

>My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to pressurise the kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water out of his 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode, I forget how much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had assumed it was rain getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
>I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the fuel. I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and every last drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank only about 1/5 th of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no sign of a water/kerosine border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
>Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours trouble?
>Both our tanks are in full sun.

A previous residence was on a small estate of bungalows and occupied
by me from new. We all had oil-fired central heating. The tanks were
rectangular steel things. I forget the capacity, 1000 litres maybe.
Many of my neighbours had to have their tanks replaced over the years
because they rusted through from the inside. They all had vents in
them covered with a mushroom shaped cap, with three 'legs' that
screwed onto a stub of 2" threaded pipe. They were not screwed down
very far, and there was quite a gap between the lower edge of the cap
and the top of the threaded pipe, into which rain could get blown by
strong wind. From the very early days, I screwed the cap on my tank as
far down as it would go so that the lower edge of the mushroom was
below the top of the stub of threaded pipe.

I never needed my tank replacing in the twenty years I lived there.

Has your neighbour got a tank vent cover that isn't screwed down as
far as it could do, or something like it? I assume these days that all
tanks are plastic of some sort, so rusting isn't a problem, but rain
could still be blowing in around a poorly set vent cap.

--
Chris

On 22/12/2022 17:51, misterroy wrote:
> My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to
> pressurise the kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining
> the water out of his 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had
> this failure mode, I forget how much water was in last time, but it
> was astounding. He had assumed it was rain getting in driven by the
> wind and took measures to mitigate.

My ancient tank had a few mm of water inside at the bottom as it neared
end of life at ~30 years but nothing like you describe. There must be a
leak somewhere high up on the tank allowing water ingress. I suspect
most of mine was accumulated from condensation dripping in when the air
was warm and humid and the tank contents still very cold.

The exact conditions for this happened last week when the thaw came. For
a few hours every metal surface in my garage was dripping wet through
being much colder that the warm moist air that suddenly arrived!

> I have a 25 year old 1000L tank,
> never had any problem with water in the fuel. I am pretty slow at
> ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and every last drop was
> burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank only about 1/5 th
> of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no sign of a
> water/kerosine border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out. Is it
> just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours
> trouble? Both our tanks are in full sun.

There is a major defect on his tank presumably above the maximum fill
level or he would have noticed kerosene running along the ground.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

I was also wondering how the tank is mounted and if all the pipework has
been checked. I know some people that have had tanks get small slits or
holes due to them flexing with differing amounts of oil and the heave and
slump of the underlying ground in different temperatures causing cracks in
the mounting and allowing the tank to itself flex.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"misterroy" <rgdavidson@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9837c644-cd98-46d5-a127-57a5236ae00an@googlegroups.com...
On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 6:02:36 PM UTC, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 22 Dec 2022 at 17:51:28 GMT, "misterroy" <rgdav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to
> > pressurise the
> > kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water out of
> > his
> > 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode, I
> > forget how
> > much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had assumed it
> > was rain
> > getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
> > I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the
> > fuel.
> > I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and
> > every last
> > drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank only about
> > 1/5 th
> > of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no sign of a
> > water/kerosine
> > border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
> > Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours
> > trouble?
> > Both our tanks are in full sun.
> Our 2400 tank at the old house never gave this problem, and when we had
> the
> 1200 tank replaced here with a 2400 one, chummy who did the work and
> pumped
> the oil into a holding tank and said there was no sign of water or grot in
> the
> outgoing tank. So I'd guess your neighbour has a leak somewhere above the
> full-line which is letting water get in.
>
> 1000 is rather small, IMO. We ran out here once with the smaller tank as I
> misjudged how much was left. Also, with a larger tank you can afford to
> wait
> until the price is more suitable.
>
> --
> "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to
> lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them into
> it in the first place." - Douglas Adams
How far south are you Tim? We are NW Scotland.
thanks

On Thursday, 22 December 2022 at 17:51:31 UTC, misterroy wrote:
> My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to pressurise the kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water out of his 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode, I forget how much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had assumed it was rain getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
> I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the fuel. I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and every last drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank only about 1/5 th of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no sign of a water/kerosine border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
> Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours trouble?
> Both our tanks are in full sun.
Oil boiler servicing should include checking for water accumulation in the bottom of the tank. Plus the tank should slope way from the draw off and have a drain/sample point at the lowest part. Not rocket science to a competent serviceman.

On 23 Dec 2022 at 11:05:33 GMT, "John J" <johnjessop46@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, 22 December 2022 at 17:51:31 UTC, misterroy wrote:
>> My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to pressurise the
>> kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water out of his
>> 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode, I forget
>> how much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had assumed it was
>> rain getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
>> I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the
>> fuel. I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and
>> every last drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank only
>> about 1/5 th of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no sign of a
>> water/kerosine border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
>> Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours trouble?
>> Both our tanks are in full sun.

> Oil boiler servicing should include checking for water accumulation in the
> bottom of the tank. Plus the tank should slope way from the draw off and have
> a drain/sample point at the lowest part. Not rocket science to a competent
> serviceman.

The slope of the tank, or the existence or otherwise of a drain/sample point
at the lower end is hardly in the gift of the serviceman now, is it.

Neither will it occur to most people that, if they are having a new tank
installed, they should ask teh installer about such matters.

--
The truth of the matter is that we Scots have always been more divided amongst ourselves than pitted against the English. Scottish history before the Union of Parliaments is a gloomy, violent tale of murders, feuds, and tribal revenge. Only after the Act of Union did Highlanders and Lowlanders, Picts and Celts, begin to recognise one another as fellow citizens.

Tam Dalyell

On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 22:55:13 +1100, Tim Streater
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> On 23 Dec 2022 at 11:05:33 GMT, "John J" <johnjessop46@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, 22 December 2022 at 17:51:31 UTC, misterroy wrote:
>>> My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to
>>> pressurise the
>>> kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water out
>>> of his
>>> 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode, I
>>> forget
>>> how much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had assumed
>>> it was
>>> rain getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
>>> I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in
>>> the
>>> fuel. I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times,
>>> and
>>> every last drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank
>>> only
>>> about 1/5 th of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no
>>> sign of a
>>> water/kerosine border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
>>> Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours
>>> trouble?
>>> Both our tanks are in full sun.
>
>> Oil boiler servicing should include checking for water accumulation in
>> the
>> bottom of the tank. Plus the tank should slope way from the draw off
>> and have
>> a drain/sample point at the lowest part. Not rocket science to a
>> competent
>> serviceman.
>
> The slope of the tank, or the existence or otherwise of a drain/sample
> point
> at the lower end is hardly in the gift of the serviceman now, is it.
>
> Neither will it occur to most people that, if they are having a new tank
> installed, they should ask teh installer about such matters.

Any competant installer should do that without being asked.

On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 11:55:18 UTC, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 23 Dec 2022 at 11:05:33 GMT, "John J" <johnje...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, 22 December 2022 at 17:51:31 UTC, misterroy wrote:
> >> My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to pressurise the
> >> kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water out of his
> >> 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode, I forget
> >> how much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had assumed it was
> >> rain getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
> >> I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the
> >> fuel. I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and
> >> every last drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank only
> >> about 1/5 th of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no sign of a
> >> water/kerosine border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
> >> Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours trouble?
> >> Both our tanks are in full sun.
>
> > Oil boiler servicing should include checking for water accumulation in the
> > bottom of the tank. Plus the tank should slope way from the draw off and have
> > a drain/sample point at the lowest part. Not rocket science to a competent
> > serviceman.
> The slope of the tank, or the existence or otherwise of a drain/sample point
> at the lower end is hardly in the gift of the serviceman now, is it.
>
> Neither will it occur to most people that, if they are having a new tank
> installed, they should ask teh installer about such matters.
>
> --
> The truth of the matter is that we Scots have always been more divided amongst ourselves than pitted against the English. Scottish history before the Union of Parliaments is a gloomy, violent tale of murders, feuds, and tribal revenge. Only after the Act of Union did Highlanders and Lowlanders, Picts and Celts, begin to recognise one another as fellow citizens.
>
> Tam Dalyell
Correct installation of an oil storage tank is subject to national standards. Anyone ignoring these has probably left his horse parked round the corner out of sight.

On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:55:18 AM UTC, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 23 Dec 2022 at 11:05:33 GMT, "John J" <johnje...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, 22 December 2022 at 17:51:31 UTC, misterroy wrote:
> >> My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to pressurise the
> >> kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water out of his
> >> 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode, I forget
> >> how much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had assumed it was
> >> rain getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
> >> I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the
> >> fuel. I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and
> >> every last drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank only
> >> about 1/5 th of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no sign of a
> >> water/kerosine border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
> >> Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours trouble?
> >> Both our tanks are in full sun.
>
> > Oil boiler servicing should include checking for water accumulation in the
> > bottom of the tank. Plus the tank should slope way from the draw off and have
> > a drain/sample point at the lowest part. Not rocket science to a competent
> > serviceman.
> The slope of the tank, or the existence or otherwise of a drain/sample point
> at the lower end is hardly in the gift of the serviceman now, is it.
>
> Neither will it occur to most people that, if they are having a new tank
> installed, they should ask teh installer about such matters.
>
> --
> The truth of the matter is that we Scots have always been more divided amongst ourselves than pitted against the English. Scottish history before the Union of Parliaments is a gloomy, violent tale of murders, feuds, and tribal revenge. Only after the Act of Union did Highlanders and Lowlanders, Picts and Celts, begin to recognise one another as fellow citizens.
>
> Tam Dalyell
A drain if needed would surely come pre fitted on the tank. Getting a fitter to add one could lead to all sorts of trouble. How wold they reach down to the inside bottom of a 1.8 M tank to add a nut?

On 23/12/2022 11:05, John J wrote:
> On Thursday, 22 December 2022 at 17:51:31 UTC, misterroy wrote:
>> My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to
>> pressurise the kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today
>> draining the water out of his 2000L tank. This is the second time
>> he has had this failure mode, I forget how much water was in last
>> time, but it was astounding. He had assumed it was rain getting in
>> driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate. I have a 25 year
>> old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the fuel. I am
>> pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and
>> every last drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my
>> tank only about 1/5 th of the bottom was covered by liquid, and
>> there was no sign of a water/kerosine border, luckily I got fuel
>> before I ran out. Is it just the extra volume of air that is
>> leading to my neighbours trouble? Both our tanks are in full sun.

> Oil boiler servicing should include checking for water accumulation
> in the bottom of the tank. Plus the tank should slope way from the
> draw off and have a drain/sample point at the lowest part. Not rocket
> science to a competent serviceman.

I don't think I have ever seen one with a secondary low point draw off
for water. If it was ever necessary then the same sort of pump that is
used for transferring fuel from an old tank into containers was used but
with a rigid dip stick on the end to hit the lowest internally.

Mine has never had sufficient water accumulation to worry it, but
towards the end of its life the thinning caused by corrosion at the
surface of the water did for it. The whole thing was basically rust and
Hammerite at the weakest point. The guy who installed the new tank said
he thought it might last a few years more on initial inspection.
However, when he tried to move it the base stayed put and the top tore
away. Luckily by then there was almost no fuel at all left in it to spill.

Both tanks had sufficiently folded over vent pipes that there was no
risk of water getting in that way. ISTR old one 2" ID and downwards
facing after making a U-turn with a diameter ~ 8".

New one is a mushroom type vent and all plastic bunded tank.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 23/12/2022 16:45, John J wrote:
> On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 11:55:18 UTC, Tim Streater wrote:
>> On 23 Dec 2022 at 11:05:33 GMT, "John J" <johnje...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, 22 December 2022 at 17:51:31 UTC, misterroy wrote:
>>>> My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to pressurise the
>>>> kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water out of his
>>>> 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode, I forget
>>>> how much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had assumed it was
>>>> rain getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
>>>> I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the
>>>> fuel. I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and
>>>> every last drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank only
>>>> about 1/5 th of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no sign of a
>>>> water/kerosine border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
>>>> Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours trouble?
>>>> Both our tanks are in full sun.
>>
>>> Oil boiler servicing should include checking for water accumulation in the
>>> bottom of the tank. Plus the tank should slope way from the draw off and have
>>> a drain/sample point at the lowest part. Not rocket science to a competent
>>> serviceman.
>> The slope of the tank, or the existence or otherwise of a drain/sample point
>> at the lower end is hardly in the gift of the serviceman now, is it.
>>
>> Neither will it occur to most people that, if they are having a new tank
>> installed, they should ask teh installer about such matters.
>>
>> --
>> The truth of the matter is that we Scots have always been more divided amongst ourselves than pitted against the English. Scottish history before the Union of Parliaments is a gloomy, violent tale of murders, feuds, and tribal revenge. Only after the Act of Union did Highlanders and Lowlanders, Picts and Celts, begin to recognise one another as fellow citizens.
>>
>> Tam Dalyell
> Correct installation of an oil storage tank is subject to national standards. Anyone ignoring these has probably left his horse parked round the corner out of sight.

Well in Wales they are different from England. `

Was that what you meant? -:)

--
Michael Chare

In message <13a27cbc-4494-49e1-8413-78ece197c7f1n@googlegroups.com>,
John J <johnjessop46@gmail.com> writes
>On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 11:55:18 UTC, Tim Streater wrote:
>> On 23 Dec 2022 at 11:05:33 GMT, "John J" <johnje...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Thursday, 22 December 2022 at 17:51:31 UTC, misterroy wrote:
>> >> My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to
>> >>pressurise the
>> >> kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water
>> >>out of his
>> >> 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode,
>> >>I forget
>> >> how much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had
>> >>assumed it was
>> >> rain getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
>> >> I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the
>> >> fuel. I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and
>> >> every last drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my
>> >>tank only
>> >> about 1/5 th of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no
>> >>sign of a
>> >> water/kerosine border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
>> >> Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my
>> >>neighbours trouble?
>> >> Both our tanks are in full sun.
>>
>> > Oil boiler servicing should include checking for water accumulation in the
>> > bottom of the tank. Plus the tank should slope way from the draw
>> >off and have
>> > a drain/sample point at the lowest part. Not rocket science to a competent
>> > serviceman.
>> The slope of the tank, or the existence or otherwise of a drain/sample point
>> at the lower end is hardly in the gift of the serviceman now, is it.
>>
>> Neither will it occur to most people that, if they are having a new tank
>> installed, they should ask teh installer about such matters.
>>
>> --
>> The truth of the matter is that we Scots have always been more
>>divided amongst ourselves than pitted against the English. Scottish
>>history before the Union of Parliaments is a gloomy, violent tale of
>>murders, feuds, and tribal revenge. Only after the Act of Union did
>>Highlanders and Lowlanders, Picts and Celts, begin to recognise one
>>another as fellow citizens.
>>
>> Tam Dalyell
>Correct installation of an oil storage tank is subject to national
>standards. Anyone ignoring these has probably left his horse parked
>round the corner out of sight.

Parking a large metal tank in full Sun has caught out rather a lot of
Farmers over the last few years.
The advent of nice green diesel fuel (often referred to as FAME –
Fatty Acid Methyl Ester fuels) along with their attendant Fungi,bacteria
and yeasts, has shown how vulnerable such installations are to internal
condensation.

My fuel tank is housed in a barn, out of the Sun and casual theft but
rather inconvenient when it comes to filling a tractor.
--
Tim Lamb

On Friday, 23 December 2022 at 17:43:48 UTC, misterroy wrote:
> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:55:18 AM UTC, Tim Streater wrote:
> > On 23 Dec 2022 at 11:05:33 GMT, "John J" <johnje...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Thursday, 22 December 2022 at 17:51:31 UTC, misterroy wrote:
> > >> My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to pressurise the
> > >> kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water out of his
> > >> 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode, I forget
> > >> how much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had assumed it was
> > >> rain getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
> > >> I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the
> > >> fuel. I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and
> > >> every last drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank only
> > >> about 1/5 th of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no sign of a
> > >> water/kerosine border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
> > >> Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours trouble?
> > >> Both our tanks are in full sun.
> >
> > > Oil boiler servicing should include checking for water accumulation in the
> > > bottom of the tank. Plus the tank should slope way from the draw off and have
> > > a drain/sample point at the lowest part. Not rocket science to a competent
> > > serviceman.
> > The slope of the tank, or the existence or otherwise of a drain/sample point
> > at the lower end is hardly in the gift of the serviceman now, is it.
> >
> > Neither will it occur to most people that, if they are having a new tank
> > installed, they should ask teh installer about such matters.
> >
> > --
> > The truth of the matter is that we Scots have always been more divided amongst ourselves than pitted against the English. Scottish history before the Union of Parliaments is a gloomy, violent tale of murders, feuds, and tribal revenge. Only after the Act of Union did Highlanders and Lowlanders, Picts and Celts, begin to recognise one another as fellow citizens.
> >
> > Tam Dalyell

> A drain if needed would surely come pre fitted on the tank. Getting a fitter to add one could lead to all sorts of trouble. How wold they reach down to the inside bottom of a 1.8 M tank to add a nut?

Oil tanks from mainstream suppliers come with a 1" BSP socket outlet fitted slightly above the bottom at one end and a 1/2" socket set flush with the bottom at the other end. It's normal practice to screw a drain plug into the 1/2" or alternatively connect a gate valve using a steel nipple and to avoid scrotes playing about to empty your tank a blanking plug screwed into the gate valve. The other end is fitted with an outlet of one type or another. (See https://www.fueltankshop.co.uk/heating-oil/oil-tank-accessories/c358 ) the tank is then set on a sloping stand so any water or sludge migrates to the drain valve. 1" is adequate but frequently installers get enthusiastic and 3 or 4 inches can be seen. The greater the slope the more oil remains in the tank when the boiler runs out of available fuel.

misterroy <rgdavidson@gmail.com> wrote:
> My near neighbour has a 5 year old 2000L oil tank. His pump to pressurise
> the kerosine failled two days ago. He spent today draining the water out
> of his 2000L tank. This is the second time he has had this failure mode,
> I forget how much water was in last time, but it was astounding. He had
> assumed it was rain getting in driven by the wind and took measures to mitigate.
> I have a 25 year old 1000L tank, never had any problem with water in the
> fuel. I am pretty slow at ordering fuel and have ran out a few times, and
> every last drop was burned from my tank. Last time I looked in my tank
> only about 1/5 th of the bottom was covered by liquid, and there was no
> sign of a water/kerosine border, luckily I got fuel before I ran out.
> Is it just the extra volume of air that is leading to my neighbours trouble?
> Both our tanks are in full sun.
>

One obvious source is the oil supplier. Do you both always buy from the
same supplier?

On 22/12/2022 18:02, Tim Streater wrote:
> 1000 is rather small, IMO. We ran out here once with the smaller tank as I
> misjudged how much was left. Also, with a larger tank you can afford to wait
> until the price is more suitable.

1000 is about a years use for us, so it's fine.

If I could persuade SWMBO to order more than 500 at a time it would help
though!

Andy

On 22/12/2022 20:30, Chris Hogg wrote:
> Has your neighbour got a tank vent cover that isn't screwed down as
> far as it could do, or something like it? I assume these days that all
> tanks are plastic of some sort, so rusting isn't a problem, but rain
> could still be blowing in around a poorly set vent cap.

AIUI it's UV that does for new plastic tanks, not the rust that killed
metal ones.

Ours lives in its own little room in the dark. That also means it will
be easier for thieves to go for someone else's oil!

Andy

On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 11:44:44 AM UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 22/12/2022 20:30, Chris Hogg wrote:
> > Has your neighbour got a tank vent cover that isn't screwed down as
> > far as it could do, or something like it? I assume these days that all
> > tanks are plastic of some sort, so rusting isn't a problem, but rain
> > could still be blowing in around a poorly set vent cap.
>
> AIUI it's UV that does for new plastic tanks, not the rust that killed
> metal ones.
>
> Ours lives in its own little room in the dark. That also means it will
> be easier for thieves to go for someone else's oil!
>
> Andy
We have different suppliers for the fuel.
The gunk in his fuel line was " like watery porridge".

On 24/12/2022 15:18, misterroy wrote:

> We have different suppliers for the fuel.
> The gunk in his fuel line was " like watery porridge".
>
Out of nosiness - which fuel suppliers do the two of you use?
Years ago, I used the people in Lairg, until they morphed into
'Scottish' Fuels.
I've been getting deliveries from Simpson's in Caithness for some time
now, and have not as yet had any problems with them.

(Are you the Roy who has the bunkhouse?)

On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 4:04:31 PM UTC, S Viemeister wrote:
> On 24/12/2022 15:18, misterroy wrote:
>
> > We have different suppliers for the fuel.
> > The gunk in his fuel line was " like watery porridge".
> >
> Out of nosiness - which fuel suppliers do the two of you use?
> Years ago, I used the people in Lairg, until they morphed into
> 'Scottish' Fuels.
> I've been getting deliveries from Simpson's in Caithness for some time
> now, and have not as yet had any problems with them.
>
> (Are you the Roy who has the bunkhouse?)
No Bunkhouse, we are Isle of Lewis.
I have been with Highland Fuels, and my neighbour Scottish Fuels.
I did not use Scottish Fuels after they were caught price gauging. Well, not until the last fill, where they were cheaper than Highland Fuels. Fingers crossed.

On 24/12/2022 16:26, misterroy wrote:
> On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 4:04:31 PM UTC, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 24/12/2022 15:18, misterroy wrote:
>>> We have different suppliers for the fuel.
>>> The gunk in his fuel line was " like watery porridge".
>> Out of nosiness - which fuel suppliers do the two of you use?
>> Years ago, I used the people in Lairg, until they morphed into
>> 'Scottish' Fuels.
>> I've been getting deliveries from Simpson's in Caithness for some time
>> now, and have not as yet had any problems with them.
>>
>> (Are you the Roy who has the bunkhouse?)
> No Bunkhouse, we are Isle of Lewis.
> I have been with Highland Fuels, and my neighbour Scottish Fuels.
> I did not use Scottish Fuels after they were caught price gauging. Well, not until the last fill, where they were cheaper than Highland Fuels. Fingers crossed.
>
I stopped dealing with SF due both to prices and poor service. We used
to use a Rayburn, and when the man who usually cleaned and serviced it
was out on sick leave his replacement pretended to have properly
de-sooted everything. He hadn't, and it led to a chimney fire.

On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 4:53:12 PM UTC, S Viemeister wrote:
> On 24/12/2022 16:26, misterroy wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 4:04:31 PM UTC, S Viemeister wrote:
> >> On 24/12/2022 15:18, misterroy wrote:
> >>> We have different suppliers for the fuel.
> >>> The gunk in his fuel line was " like watery porridge".
> >> Out of nosiness - which fuel suppliers do the two of you use?
> >> Years ago, I used the people in Lairg, until they morphed into
> >> 'Scottish' Fuels.
> >> I've been getting deliveries from Simpson's in Caithness for some time
> >> now, and have not as yet had any problems with them.
> >>
> >> (Are you the Roy who has the bunkhouse?)
> > No Bunkhouse, we are Isle of Lewis.
> > I have been with Highland Fuels, and my neighbour Scottish Fuels.
> > I did not use Scottish Fuels after they were caught price gauging. Well, not until the last fill, where they were cheaper than Highland Fuels. Fingers crossed.
> >
> I stopped dealing with SF due both to prices and poor service. We used
> to use a Rayburn, and when the man who usually cleaned and serviced it
> was out on sick leave his replacement pretended to have properly
> de-sooted everything. He hadn't, and it led to a chimney fire.
Think the difference may have been found. I order 1000 litres, in my 1000 litre tank.
He orders 1200 litres for his 2400 litre tank, so it is only ever about half full, leaving room for air, moisture and condensation.
Leading to algae, gunk asnd a failled pump.

This is from a heating oil supplier:
"Preventing Tank Sludge
What can you do to prevent a sludge problem in your heating oil tank in the months to come? Here are four key actions you should take:

Keep enough heating oil in your tank – An empty heating oil tank promotes condensation build-up on its walls, which accelerates the growth of sludge-forming bacteria. If your tank is less than half full, schedule an oil delivery today.
Get professional heating maintenance every year – A heating tune-up includes a filter change – a must for your heating oil system. It will also help technicians to spot a sludge problem early, before too much damage is done.
Consider draining your tank – Sludge accumulates over time; if you have an older heating oil tank, consider having it drained by a waste oil contractor. Removing sludge this way can save you money on repairs and help your heating system to perform better.
Choose a reputable heating oil supplier – “Discount” fuel companies commonly offer fuel that is less refined and contains more contaminants. Remember: as with many things in life, you get what you pay for!"