Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.

I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
high time I moved to a more recent OS. Catalina? or Big Sur? -- what
would you recommend?

And: how long might the operation take, with a fair wind and calm seas?

Cheers
John

Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.
>
> I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
> high time I moved to a more recent OS. Catalina? or Big Sur? -- what
> would you recommend?
>
> And: how long might the operation take, with a fair wind and calm seas?

You should be OK with Catalina.

<https://support.apple.com/kb/SP803?locale=en_GB>

If you check the specs for BS it says 2014 iMac or newer.

<https://support.apple.com/kb/sp833?locale=en_GB>

--
Cheers, Alan

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
> Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.
>>
>> I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
>> high time I moved to a more recent OS. Catalina? or Big Sur? -- what
>> would you recommend?
>>
>> And: how long might the operation take, with a fair wind and calm seas?
>
> You should be OK with Catalina.
>
> <https://support.apple.com/kb/SP803?locale=en_GB>
>
> If you check the specs for BS it says 2014 iMac or newer.
>
> <https://support.apple.com/kb/sp833?locale=en_GB>
>

You probably know this but from Catalina onwards 32 bit apps such as
MacSOUP are no longer supported :(

--
Cheers, Alan

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
> You should be OK with Catalina.
>
> <https://support.apple.com/kb/SP803?locale=en_GB>
>
> If you check the specs for BS it says 2014 iMac or newer.
>
> <https://support.apple.com/kb/sp833?locale=en_GB>

Worth mentioning that OCLP can install up to Monterey:
https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html

bearing in mind that Catalina will likely go out of support when Ventura is
released, so either way you'll end up on an unsupported OS.

Theo

In article <t84cmn$n9t$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>,
Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:

> You probably know this but from Catalina onwards 32 bit apps such as
> MacSOUP are no longer supported :(

I did not Alan - thank you, and thank you for your other post.

I'm a simple soul: used Macs since c.1990, but have become less and less
technical since I retired -- just like to "get on with my work"!

Cheers
John

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
>> You should be OK with Catalina.
>>
>> <https://support.apple.com/kb/SP803?locale=en_GB>
>>
>> If you check the specs for BS it says 2014 iMac or newer.
>>
>> <https://support.apple.com/kb/sp833?locale=en_GB>
>
> Worth mentioning that OCLP can install up to Monterey:
> https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html
>
> bearing in mind that Catalina will likely go out of support when Ventura is
> released, so either way you'll end up on an unsupported OS.

I notice that no MBAs after 2014 are mentioned. Anyway my main Mac is an M1
machine so perhaps I should not get too concerned except for the support
issue. A few years ago I upgraded a white MacBook beyond El Capitan but
there was definitely a performance hit and of course some features did not
work.

--
Cheers, Alan

On 12/06/2022 10:28, Another John wrote:
> Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.
>
> I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
> high time I moved to a more recent OS. Catalina? or Big Sur? -- what
> would you recommend?

I've been running Catalina on a slightly older machine (2012) with no
real problems for a while now. Boot up is a bit slower but everything
else seems OK. Don't think it can run Big Sur, I've never been offered
it as an update.

>
> And: how long might the operation take, with a fair wind and calm seas?
>

The classic how long is a piece of string question, didn't take me very
long but YMMV.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > Worth mentioning that OCLP can install up to Monterey:
> > https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html
> >
> > bearing in mind that Catalina will likely go out of support when Ventura is
> > released, so either way you'll end up on an unsupported OS.
>
> I notice that no MBAs after 2014 are mentioned.

The 2015 MBAs are supported by mainline Monterey, so there's no need for a
'patcher'. Presumably OCLP will add support for them if/when it adds Ventura
support.

> Anyway my main Mac is an M1 machine so perhaps I should not get too
> concerned except for the support issue. A few years ago I upgraded a
> white MacBook beyond El Capitan but there was definitely a performance hit
> and of course some features did not work.

Yes, it can be hit and miss. Although OCLP does say that does and doesn't
work. It's also a moving target as Apple issue new releases.

Theo

On 2022-06-12 at 04:07:41 MDT, "Another John" <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:

> In article <t84cmn$n9t$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>,
> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> wrote:
>
>> You probably know this but from Catalina onwards 32 bit apps such as
>> MacSOUP are no longer supported :(
>
> I did not Alan - thank you, and thank you for your other post.
>
> I'm a simple soul: used Macs since c.1990, but have become less and less
> technical since I retired -- just like to "get on with my work"!

The freeware app Go64 will list software that isn't ready for Catalina et seq.

<https://www.stclairsoft.com/Go64/index.html>

As far as the user experience is concerned, there isn't a lot of difference
between Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey. In spite of all the "incredible" gush
from Tm Cook et al, the new features in macOS these days are very marginal. I
only upgrade to keep current with the security measures.

On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.
>
> I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
> high time I moved to a more recent OS.

Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.

--
Tim

In article <jgmpjjF2r4mU1@mid.individual.net>,
TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.
> >
> > I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
> > high time I moved to a more recent OS.
>
> Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.

Hm. Good question. Having read what Neill has said:

> As far as the user experience is concerned, there isn't a lot of difference
> between Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey. In spite of all the "incredible" gush
> from Tm Cook et al, the new features in macOS these days are very marginal. I
> only upgrade to keep current with the security measures.

.... I'm now not sure sure that I want to update. Neill's point about the
security updates is the main reason.
Another one is to get rid of Apple's nagging me to update (but I've put
up with that for a year or two, and anyway I think they've given up
nagging, now).

Neill's point that there's isn't much difference between Catalina, Big
Sure and Monterey (which implies to me that there _is_ a difference
between Mojave and Catalina) .... it all adds up to falling in with your
policy Tim -- if it ain't broke, etc.

Perhaps I should wait until I decide I need to afford a brand new Mac,
in a year or two....

Thanks for the discussion chaps: food for thought.

John

On 12 Jun 2022 at 21:48:39 BST, Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:

> In article <jgmpjjF2r4mU1@mid.individual.net>,
> TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
>> On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.
>>>
>>> I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
>>> high time I moved to a more recent OS.
>>
>> Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.
>
> Hm. Good question. Having read what Neill has said:
>
>> As far as the user experience is concerned, there isn't a lot of difference
>> between Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey. In spite of all the "incredible" gush
>> from Tm Cook et al, the new features in macOS these days are very marginal. I
>> only upgrade to keep current with the security measures.
>
> ... I'm now not sure sure that I want to update. Neill's point about the
> security updates is the main reason.
> Another one is to get rid of Apple's nagging me to update (but I've put
> up with that for a year or two, and anyway I think they've given up
> nagging, now).
>
> Neill's point that there's isn't much difference between Catalina, Big
> Sure and Monterey (which implies to me that there _is_ a difference
> between Mojave and Catalina) .... it all adds up to falling in with your
> policy Tim -- if it ain't broke, etc.
>
> Perhaps I should wait until I decide I need to afford a brand new Mac,
> in a year or two....

At which point you won't have the choice, sad to say. Last year I did buy an
Intel Mini for SWMBO which in theory should have been the same model as mine,
but it came with BS and I was unable to force Mojave onto it (perhaps someone
more expert than I could have done it). Changes since then don't amount to
much more than UI changes for the sake of it. And shitty they are, too.

And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a
problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last time I
read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black paper using
white ink.

--
Tim

Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <jgmpjjF2r4mU1@mid.individual.net>,
> TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
>> On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.
>>>
>>> I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
>>> high time I moved to a more recent OS.
>>
>> Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.
>
> Hm. Good question. Having read what Neill has said:
>
>> As far as the user experience is concerned, there isn't a lot of difference
>> between Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey. In spite of all the "incredible" gush
>> from Tm Cook et al, the new features in macOS these days are very marginal. I
>> only upgrade to keep current with the security measures.
>
> ... I'm now not sure sure that I want to update. Neill's point about the
> security updates is the main reason.
> Another one is to get rid of Apple's nagging me to update (but I've put
> up with that for a year or two, and anyway I think they've given up
> nagging, now).
>
> Neill's point that there's isn't much difference between Catalina, Big
> Sure and Monterey (which implies to me that there _is_ a difference
> between Mojave and Catalina) .... it all adds up to falling in with your
> policy Tim -- if it ain't broke, etc.
>
> Perhaps I should wait until I decide I need to afford a brand new Mac,
> in a year or two....
>
> Thanks for the discussion chaps: food for thought.

Given that Mojave support has ended and Catalina’s ends later this year,
there!s probably not much point upgrading. If you have and want to continue
using any 32 bit apps, then you have no choice but to stick with Mojave. I
guess you could run Mojave as a VM if you installed Catalina but that seems
way over the top!

--
Cheers, Alan

TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.
>>
>> I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
>> high time I moved to a more recent OS.
>
> Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.
>

Same here (couple of 2012 machines). At least, until I can afford a newer
model. Can’t help thinking the ‘new year, new OS’ thing (or however often
it is) is a bit excessive.

--
Cheers ... Mark

On 12/06/2022 22:01, TimS wrote:
> On 12 Jun 2022 at 21:48:39 BST, Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <jgmpjjF2r4mU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.
>>>>
>>>> I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
>>>> high time I moved to a more recent OS.
>>>
>>> Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.
>>
>> Hm. Good question. Having read what Neill has said:
>>
>>> As far as the user experience is concerned, there isn't a lot of difference
>>> between Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey. In spite of all the "incredible" gush
>>> from Tm Cook et al, the new features in macOS these days are very marginal. I
>>> only upgrade to keep current with the security measures.
>>
>> ... I'm now not sure sure that I want to update. Neill's point about the
>> security updates is the main reason.
>> Another one is to get rid of Apple's nagging me to update (but I've put
>> up with that for a year or two, and anyway I think they've given up
>> nagging, now).
>>
>> Neill's point that there's isn't much difference between Catalina, Big
>> Sure and Monterey (which implies to me that there _is_ a difference
>> between Mojave and Catalina) .... it all adds up to falling in with your
>> policy Tim -- if it ain't broke, etc.
>>
>> Perhaps I should wait until I decide I need to afford a brand new Mac,
>> in a year or two....
>
> At which point you won't have the choice, sad to say. Last year I did buy an
> Intel Mini for SWMBO which in theory should have been the same model as mine,
> but it came with BS and I was unable to force Mojave onto it (perhaps someone
> more expert than I could have done it). Changes since then don't amount to
> much more than UI changes for the sake of it. And shitty they are, too.
>
> And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a
> problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last time I
> read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black paper using
> white ink.
>

From observation (my regular bus route into town goes through the
university) it is very popular with the younger generation who don't
even remember computer screens being black with green text.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 13/06/2022 10:30, Mark wrote:
> TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.
>>>
>>> I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
>>> high time I moved to a more recent OS.
>>
>> Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.
>>
>
> Same here (couple of 2012 machines). At least, until I can afford a newer
> model. Can’t help thinking the ‘new year, new OS’ thing (or however often
> it is) is a bit excessive.
>

My problem is replacing my 27" iMac! My workflow is now dependant on
having that amount of screen space and the 24" models don't really hack it.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In article <t8792i$6l5$3@dont-email.me>, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> My problem is replacing my 27" iMac! My workflow is now dependant on
> having that amount of screen space and the 24" models don't really hack it.

mac studio + 27" studio display or even better, a 32" xdr display.

In article <t878tr$6l5$2@dont-email.me>, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> >
> > And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a
> > problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last time I
> > read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black paper
> > using
> > white ink.
> >
>
> From observation (my regular bus route into town goes through the
> university) it is very popular with the younger generation who don't
> even remember computer screens being black with green text.

or amber.

On 13 Jun 2022 at 13:00:59 BST, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> On 12/06/2022 22:01, TimS wrote:
>> On 12 Jun 2022 at 21:48:39 BST, Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <jgmpjjF2r4mU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>> TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
>>>>> high time I moved to a more recent OS.
>>>>
>>>> Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.
>>>
>>> Hm. Good question. Having read what Neill has said:
>>>
>>>> As far as the user experience is concerned, there isn't a lot of difference
>>>> between Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey. In spite of all the "incredible" gush
>>>> from Tm Cook et al, the new features in macOS these days are very marginal. I
>>>> only upgrade to keep current with the security measures.
>>>
>>> ... I'm now not sure sure that I want to update. Neill's point about the
>>> security updates is the main reason.
>>> Another one is to get rid of Apple's nagging me to update (but I've put
>>> up with that for a year or two, and anyway I think they've given up
>>> nagging, now).
>>>
>>> Neill's point that there's isn't much difference between Catalina, Big
>>> Sure and Monterey (which implies to me that there _is_ a difference
>>> between Mojave and Catalina) .... it all adds up to falling in with your
>>> policy Tim -- if it ain't broke, etc.
>>>
>>> Perhaps I should wait until I decide I need to afford a brand new Mac,
>>> in a year or two....
>>
>> At which point you won't have the choice, sad to say. Last year I did buy an
>> Intel Mini for SWMBO which in theory should have been the same model as mine,
>> but it came with BS and I was unable to force Mojave onto it (perhaps someone
>> more expert than I could have done it). Changes since then don't amount to
>> much more than UI changes for the sake of it. And shitty they are, too.
>>
>> And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a
>> problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last time I
>> read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black paper using
>> white ink.
>
> From observation (my regular bus route into town goes through the
> university) it is very popular with the younger generation who don't
> even remember computer screens being black with green text.

Goths, probably.

--
Tim

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <t878tr$6l5$2@dont-email.me>, Graeme Wall
> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a
>>> problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last time I
>>> read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black paper
>>> using
>>> white ink.
>>>
>>
>> From observation (my regular bus route into town goes through the
>> university) it is very popular with the younger generation who don't
>> even remember computer screens being black with green text.
>
> or amber.

Or white.

Personally, I don’t get the point of Dark Mode either. I feel like it is
just the “new” factor. If all we had was Dark Mode for the past 40 years,
then White Mode would now be “new and cool”.

But whatever.

In article <t878tr$6l5$2@dont-email.me>,
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> From observation (my regular bus route into town goes through the
>university) it is very popular with the younger generation who don't
>even remember computer screens being black with green text.

The ones I used in the 70s were all white-on-black, which had the
advantage that they could also be used as monitors for CCTV etc and
even show text superimposed on a black-and-white video image.

-- Richard

In article <t87g6u$82s$1@macpro.inf.ed.ac.uk>, Richard Tobin
<richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

> The ones I used in the 70s were all white-on-black, which had the
> advantage that they could also be used as monitors for CCTV etc and
> even show text superimposed on a black-and-white video image.

that's a function of the hardware, not the phosphor.

In article <PcKdnQIi8-Cu3Tr_nZ2dnUU7-UHNnZ2d@supernews.com>, Bob
Campbell <nunya@none.none> wrote:

> >> From observation (my regular bus route into town goes through the
> >> university) it is very popular with the younger generation who don't
> >> even remember computer screens being black with green text.
> >
> > or amber.
>
> Or white.

white was harsher on the eyes, thus the preference for amber or green.

> Personally, I don¹t get the point of Dark Mode either. I feel like it is
> just the ³new² factor. If all we had was Dark Mode for the past 40 years,
> then White Mode would now be ³new and cool².

for those who work in the dark, dark more is less jarring.

> But whatever.

yep

In article <130620221012420382%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> The ones I used in the 70s were all white-on-black, which had the
>> advantage that they could also be used as monitors for CCTV etc and
>> even show text superimposed on a black-and-white video image.

>that's a function of the hardware, not the phosphor.

Displaying a black-and-white image is obviously dependent on the
phospor.

-- Richard

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <t8792i$6l5$3@dont-email.me>, Graeme Wall
> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> My problem is replacing my 27" iMac! My workflow is now dependant on
>> having that amount of screen space and the 24" models don't really hack it.
>
> mac studio + 27" studio display or even better, a 32" xdr display.

Is Apple in the process of dropping the iMac range or has it something
special in mind later this year?

--
Cheers, Alan