Am 05/04/2023 um 09:58 schrieb Robin:
> On 04/04/2023 23:40, Michael Chare wrote:
>> On 04/04/2023 20:50, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Does anyone know when that test is being carried out? - the one where
>>> they activate everyone's mobile phones with a siren to warn about a
>>> nuclear attack? I can't find anything in the Mail/Express online about
>>> it at all. Apparently there was some concern that turning everyone's
>>> phone into a siren could imperil women who have a secret phone they
>>> keep from their partners or some such nonsense. Like that's going to
>>> matter two fucks with Armageddon 4 mins away!
>>> But anyway, anyone know if this is going ahead and if so, when?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>
>> To get alerts on an Android phone it needs to be running Android
>> version 11 or later and connected to a 4G or 5G network.
> The official advice is that's what you need to be sure of being able to
> get them.  For others they have "If you have an earlier version of
> Android, you may still be able to receive alerts. To check, search your
> device settings for ‘emergency alerts’. "
>
>

Back in the day, when radio amateurs were men and not like resident
trolls in here, they were the ones spreading emergency messages around.
Raynet only do cocktail parties nowadays.

--
Ottavio Caruso

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 05/04/2023 13:34, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 13:23, Paul wrote:
>>> On 4/5/2023 3:31 AM, alan_m wrote:
>>>> On 05/04/2023 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We were in New Zealand in 2019 when they had a test. Totally undramatic
>>>>> (but unmissable). Folk seem to be running around like headless chickens
>>>>> here with ridiculous “what if” scenarios.
>>>>
>>>> Unless the Government have provided nuclear warfare bunkers for the
>>>> all of the population and educated the population on what to do there
>>>> is no point in having a siren test?  I'll bet most people would want
>>>> to be oblivious of their death rather than being told that they are
>>>> going to die in 4 minutes time.
>>>>
>>>> Or is it like the 1960s again where on hearing the siren you are
>>>> meant to get out your DIY tools, take a door off its hinges and hide
>>>> under it until after the blast?
>>>>
>>>
>>> A fort made out of cardboard boxes.
>>>
>>> When I was younger, that always worked.
>>>
>>> Your main protection is getting below grade, as an earthworks
>>> of any sort, would help with the blast overpressure (5PSI).
>>> (That's like a couple hundred tons pressing against one side
>>> of the house.) Which is equivalent to something like a 163 MPH wind.
>>> Hard to say where your door ends up, during the shock wave or wind
>>> (assumes the house has disappeared above your head, and you
>>> experience the tail edge of the shock wave).
>>>
>>> So maybe if you made a structure in the basement, it would
>>> need to be bolted to the concrete floor (the legs). That's so,
>>> if you thought the door was going to stop household debris that
>>> had fallen on top of you, the orientation of the door remains
>>> protective.
>>>
>>> Maybe with enough sandbags, you could do it with ballast.
>>
>> You were not expected to survive in the blast zones, and you chances
>> were not too good in the areas around them. However, at least half the
>> country was expected to be unaffected by the direct effects of a nuclear
>> attack. That is where you would need protection from fallout and enough
>> food, water and chemical loos to stay in there for at least two weeks.
>>
> I would agree with nearly all of that. Except the bit about protection
> from fallout. That was what they thought then, today we know it really
> isn't a huge issue.
> Iodine pills for a day or three, yes, after than no problemo. But given
> that most of the countries infrastructure was expected to be blown to
> hell, stockpiled food was no bad thing.,
>
> Back then loss of electricity would have been an inconvenience, today it
> would completely cripple our ability to function. I would expect more to
> die of cholera and typhoid due to the collapse of pumping stations and
> sewage processing plants
>
> And you can't run a cashless society without electricity.

A 1MT high-altitude (100 mile high) burst over the North Sea will wipe out
most electronics in the UK, although such a blast won’t kill anyone.

What will kill people is the ensuing panic.

Roving gangs of psychopaths will kill for food, booze, and sex.

It won’t be pretty.

--
Spike

On 04/04/2023 21:53, Chris Green wrote:
> Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 04/04/2023 20:50, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Does anyone know when that test is being carried out? - the one where
>>> they activate everyone's mobile phones with a siren to warn about a
>>> nuclear attack? I can't find anything in the Mail/Express online about
>>> it at all. Apparently there was some concern that turning everyone's
>>> phone into a siren could imperil women who have a secret phone they
>>> keep from their partners or some such nonsense. Like that's going to
>>> matter two fucks with Armageddon 4 mins away!
>>> But anyway, anyone know if this is going ahead and if so, when?
>>
>>
>> April 23rd.
>>
> April 1st surely!
>

'They' are now advising people not to be doing any
online shopping at that time too.

On 05/04/2023 13:07, jim.gm4dhj wrote:
> On 05/04/2023 08:48, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 04/04/2023 23:40, Michael Chare wrote:
>>> On 04/04/2023 20:50, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know when that test is being carried out? - the one where
>>>> they activate everyone's mobile phones with a siren to warn about a
>>>> nuclear attack? I can't find anything in the Mail/Express online about
>>>> it at all. Apparently there was some concern that turning everyone's
>>>> phone into a siren could imperil women who have a secret phone they
>>>> keep from their partners or some such nonsense. Like that's going to
>>>> matter two fucks with Armageddon 4 mins away!
>>>> But anyway, anyone know if this is going ahead and if so, when?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>
>>> To get alerts on an Android phone it needs to be running Android
>>> version 11 or later and connected to a 4G or 5G network.  If this is
>>> the case the phone will have varios options regarding receiving the
>>> alerts.
>>>
>>> According to the Daily Telegraph:
>>>
>>> "The alert will disable users’ phones leaving a "welcome message" on
>>> screen until they acknowledge it by clicking on an “OK” message.
>>>
>>> It is illegal to hold and use a mobile phone while driving, and those
>>> caught doing so can be given six penalty points and a £200 fine"
>>>
>>> I do wonder about the wisdom of this. My car has a hands free mobile
>>> phone facility it is not clear as to whether this can be used to
>>> acknowledge receipt of the message.
>>>
>>>
>> Well, if you are going to be driving that evening, switch the bloody
>> phone off, then it won't receive the message, and you won't be
>> troubled by it. Or am I stating the obvious ?
> sacrilage....turning a phone off tee hee

Your nokia won't get it anyway :-)

On 04/04/2023 23:40, Michael Chare wrote:
> On 04/04/2023 20:50, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Does anyone know when that test is being carried out? - the one where
>> they activate everyone's mobile phones with a siren to warn about a
>> nuclear attack? I can't find anything in the Mail/Express online about
>> it at all. Apparently there was some concern that turning everyone's
>> phone into a siren could imperil women who have a secret phone they
>> keep from their partners or some such nonsense. Like that's going to
>> matter two fucks with Armageddon 4 mins away!
>> But anyway, anyone know if this is going ahead and if so, when?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>
> To get alerts on an Android phone it needs to be running Android version
> 11 or later and connected to a 4G or 5G network.  If this is the case
> the phone will have varios options regarding receiving the alerts.
>
> According to the Daily Telegraph:
>
> "The alert will disable users’ phones leaving a "welcome message" on
> screen until they acknowledge it by clicking on an “OK”  message.
>

Is this a cunning plan to identify all the unregistered burner
phones ?. Being a cynic I suspect there is a hidden agenda to this

On 05/04/2023 14:37, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> Am 05/04/2023 um 09:58 schrieb Robin:
>> On 04/04/2023 23:40, Michael Chare wrote:
>>> On 04/04/2023 20:50, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know when that test is being carried out? - the one where
>>>> they activate everyone's mobile phones with a siren to warn about a
>>>> nuclear attack? I can't find anything in the Mail/Express online about
>>>> it at all. Apparently there was some concern that turning everyone's
>>>> phone into a siren could imperil women who have a secret phone they
>>>> keep from their partners or some such nonsense. Like that's going to
>>>> matter two fucks with Armageddon 4 mins away!
>>>> But anyway, anyone know if this is going ahead and if so, when?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>
>>> To get alerts on an Android phone it needs to be running Android
>>> version 11 or later and connected to a 4G or 5G network.
>> The official advice is that's what you need to be sure of being able
>> to get them.  For others they have "If you have an earlier version of
>> Android, you may still be able to receive alerts. To check, search
>> your device settings for ‘emergency alerts’. "
>>
>>
>
> Back in the day, when radio amateurs were men and not like resident
> trolls in here, they were the ones spreading emergency messages around.
> Raynet only do cocktail parties nowadays.
>
>

Radio 4 used to broadcast emergency messages for people on
holiday, telling them to ring xxx hospital where their xxx
relative is dangerously ill.

On 05/04/2023 13:06, jim.gm4dhj wrote:
> On 04/04/2023 23:40, Michael Chare wrote:
>> On 04/04/2023 20:50, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Does anyone know when that test is being carried out? - the one where
>>> they activate everyone's mobile phones with a siren to warn about a
>>> nuclear attack? I can't find anything in the Mail/Express online about
>>> it at all. Apparently there was some concern that turning everyone's
>>> phone into a siren could imperil women who have a secret phone they
>>> keep from their partners or some such nonsense. Like that's going to
>>> matter two fucks with Armageddon 4 mins away!
>>> But anyway, anyone know if this is going ahead and if so, when?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>
>> To get alerts on an Android phone it needs to be running Android
>> version 11 or later and connected to a 4G or 5G network.  If this is
>> the case the phone will have varios options regarding receiving the
>> alerts.
>>
>> According to the Daily Telegraph:
>>
>> "The alert will disable users’ phones leaving a "welcome message" on
>> screen until they acknowledge it by clicking on an “OK”  message.
>>
>> It is illegal to hold and use a mobile phone while driving, and those
>> caught doing so can be given six penalty points and a £200 fine"
>>
>> I do wonder about the wisdom of this. My car has a hands free mobile
>> phone facility it is not clear as to whether this can be used to
>> acknowledge receipt of the message.
>>
>>
> woo hoo another good reason to own a 2g nokia 1100......

until the 2G airwaves vanish into the ether

On 05/04/2023 14:40, Spike wrote:
> A 1MT high-altitude (100 mile high) burst over the North Sea will wipe out
> most electronics in the UK, although such a blast won’t kill anyone.
>
I wonder.

> What will kill people is the ensuing panic.
>
Like lockdown?

> Roving gangs of psychopaths will kill for food, booze, and sex.
>
So pretty much like the House of Commons writ large?

> It won’t be pretty.

They aren't.

Joking apart how far would people get if cars are buggered due to EMP?
As far as the tank will take them because the electric fuel pumps wont work.

No, those gangs wouldn't last very long in the major cities. Once they
had looted the supermarkets of food and drink.

I actually think that EMP wouldn't be that bad. But until it happens no
one knows.

The Tsar Bomba was 50MT over Novaya Zemlya, No EMP effect.
High altitude tests to produce EMP but nothing else show it could go a
long way and be quite destructive, but to whom?

Russia itself would be very vulnerable - more so than Europe.

--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

On 05/04/2023 14:50, Andrew wrote:
> On 04/04/2023 21:53, Chris Green wrote:
>> Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>> On 04/04/2023 20:50, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know when that test is being carried out? - the one where
>>>> they activate everyone's mobile phones with a siren to warn about a
>>>> nuclear attack? I can't find anything in the Mail/Express online about
>>>> it at all. Apparently there was some concern that turning everyone's
>>>> phone into a siren could imperil women who have a secret phone they
>>>> keep from their partners or some such nonsense. Like that's going to
>>>> matter two fucks with Armageddon 4 mins away!
>>>> But anyway, anyone know if this is going ahead and if so, when?
>>>
>>>
>>> April 23rd.
>>>
>> April 1st surely!
>>
>
> 'They' are now advising people not to be doing any
> online shopping at that time too.
>
>
'They' can fuck right off.

--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!

On 05/04/2023 08:48, charles wrote:
> In article <k94mecFe7reU2@mid.individual.net>,
> alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
>
>>>
>>> We were in New Zealand in 2019 when they had a test. Totally undramatic
>>> (but unmissable). Folk seem to be running around like headless chickens
>>> here with ridiculous ”what if• scenarios.
>
>> Unless the Government have provided nuclear warfare bunkers for the all
>> of the population and educated the population on what to do there is no
>> point in having a siren test? I'll bet most people would want to be
>> oblivious of their death rather than being told that they are going to
>> die in 4 minutes time.
>
>> Or is it like the 1960s again where on hearing the siren you are meant
>> to get out your DIY tools, take a door off its hinges and hide under it
>> until after the blast?
>
> The alarm is not a 4 minute warning. It's for things like flooding.
> Anyway, if you're at home the 4 minutes is enough time to get out the
> bottle of malt and have a last dram - or two,
>
If the sun suddenly died or blew up we wouldn't know
for 8 minutes anyway.

On 05/04/2023 10:41, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Apr 2023 08:48:06 +0100, charles wrote:
>
>> The alarm is not a 4 minute warning. It's for things like flooding.
>> Anyway, if you're at home the 4 minutes is enough time to get out the
>> bottle of malt and have a last dram - or two,
>
> Or get out the wife/girlfriend and have a last...
>

row ?

On 05/04/2023 15:06, Andrew wrote:
> On 05/04/2023 08:48, charles wrote:
>> In article <k94mecFe7reU2@mid.individual.net>,
>>     alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 05/04/2023 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> We were in New Zealand in 2019 when they had a test. Totally undramatic
>>>> (but unmissable). Folk seem to be running around like headless chickens
>>>> here with ridiculous ”what if• scenarios.
>>
>>> Unless the Government have provided nuclear warfare bunkers for the all
>>> of the population and educated the population on what to do there is no
>>> point in having a siren test?  I'll bet most people would want to be
>>> oblivious of their death rather than being told that they are going to
>>> die in 4 minutes time.
>>
>>> Or is it like the 1960s again where on hearing the siren you are meant
>>> to get out your DIY tools, take a door off its hinges and hide under it
>>> until after the blast?
>>
>> The alarm is not a 4 minute warning. It's for things like flooding.
>> Anyway, if you're at home the 4 minutes is enough time to get out the
>> bottle of malt and have a last dram - or two,
>>
> If the sun suddenly died or blew up we wouldn't know
> for 8 minutes anyway.
I wonder how much warning for a Germany sized asteroid hitting the pacific?
--
Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

On 05/04/2023 10:48, Tim+ wrote:
> alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> We were in New Zealand in 2019 when they had a test. Totally undramatic
>>> (but unmissable). Folk seem to be running around like headless chickens
>>> here with ridiculous “what if” scenarios.
>>
>> Unless the Government have provided nuclear warfare bunkers for the all
>> of the population and educated the population on what to do there is no
>> point in having a siren test? I'll bet most people would want to be
>> oblivious of their death rather than being told that they are going to
>> die in 4 minutes time.
>>
>> Or is it like the 1960s again where on hearing the siren you are meant
>> to get out your DIY tools, take a door off its hinges and hide under it
>> until after the blast?
>>
>
> Why do you think it’s only for nuclear attack warning? If you lived below a
> reservoir dam that was about to be breeched by extreme weather, you might
> be grateful for some warning.
>
> If your child was abducted from outside her school you might like a system
> that could alert everyone in an area.

It would be on facebook and soshal meedihuh longgggg before the
feds got round to sending an emergency alert to ?everyones phone.

On 05/04/2023 15:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/04/2023 15:06, Andrew wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 08:48, charles wrote:
>>> In article <k94mecFe7reU2@mid.individual.net>,
>>>     alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 05/04/2023 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We were in New Zealand in 2019 when they had a test. Totally
>>>>> undramatic
>>>>> (but unmissable). Folk seem to be running around like headless
>>>>> chickens
>>>>> here with ridiculous ”what if• scenarios.
>>>
>>>> Unless the Government have provided nuclear warfare bunkers for the all
>>>> of the population and educated the population on what to do there is no
>>>> point in having a siren test?  I'll bet most people would want to be
>>>> oblivious of their death rather than being told that they are going to
>>>> die in 4 minutes time.
>>>
>>>> Or is it like the 1960s again where on hearing the siren you are meant
>>>> to get out your DIY tools, take a door off its hinges and hide under it
>>>> until after the blast?
>>>
>>> The alarm is not a 4 minute warning. It's for things like flooding.
>>> Anyway, if you're at home the 4 minutes is enough time to get out the
>>> bottle of malt and have a last dram - or two,
>>>
>> If the sun suddenly died or blew up we wouldn't know
>> for 8 minutes anyway.
> I wonder how much warning for a Germany sized asteroid hitting the pacific?

MOnths, possibly years. There is an army of people looking at
pictures of space and looking for stuff coming our way.

On 05/04/2023 13:23, Paul wrote:
> On 4/5/2023 3:31 AM, alan_m wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> We were in New Zealand in 2019 when they had a test. Totally undramatic
>>> (but unmissable). Folk seem to be running around like headless chickens
>>> here with ridiculous “what if” scenarios.
>>
>> Unless the Government have provided nuclear warfare bunkers for the
>> all of the population and educated the population on what to do there
>> is no point in having a siren test?  I'll bet most people would want
>> to be oblivious of their death rather than being told that they are
>> going to die in 4 minutes time.
>>
>> Or is it like the 1960s again where on hearing the siren you are meant
>> to get out your DIY tools, take a door off its hinges and hide under
>> it until after the blast?
>>
>
> A fort made out of cardboard boxes.
>
> When I was younger, that always worked.
>
> Your main protection is getting below grade, as an earthworks
> of any sort, would help with the blast overpressure (5PSI).
> (That's like a couple hundred tons pressing against one side
> of the house.) Which is equivalent to something like a 163 MPH wind.
> Hard to say where your door ends up, during the shock wave or wind
> (assumes the house has disappeared above your head, and you
> experience the tail edge of the shock wave).
>
> So maybe if you made a structure in the basement, it would
> need to be bolted to the concrete floor (the legs). That's so,
> if you thought the door was going to stop household debris that
> had fallen on top of you, the orientation of the door remains
> protective.
>
> Maybe with enough sandbags, you could do it with ballast.
>
>    Paul
>

Well some bloke survived that nasty hurricane in the USA
recently by sitting on his bog, and not even down in a
basement. His ears must have gone pop somewhat though.

On 05/04/2023 13:34, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 05/04/2023 13:23, Paul wrote:
>> On 4/5/2023 3:31 AM, alan_m wrote:
>>> On 05/04/2023 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> We were in New Zealand in 2019 when they had a test. Totally undramatic
>>>> (but unmissable). Folk seem to be running around like headless chickens
>>>> here with ridiculous “what if” scenarios.
>>>
>>> Unless the Government have provided nuclear warfare bunkers for the
>>> all of the population and educated the population on what to do there
>>> is no point in having a siren test?  I'll bet most people would want
>>> to be oblivious of their death rather than being told that they are
>>> going to die in 4 minutes time.
>>>
>>> Or is it like the 1960s again where on hearing the siren you are
>>> meant to get out your DIY tools, take a door off its hinges and hide
>>> under it until after the blast?
>>>
>>
>> A fort made out of cardboard boxes.
>>
>> When I was younger, that always worked.
>>
>> Your main protection is getting below grade, as an earthworks
>> of any sort, would help with the blast overpressure (5PSI).
>> (That's like a couple hundred tons pressing against one side
>> of the house.) Which is equivalent to something like a 163 MPH wind.
>> Hard to say where your door ends up, during the shock wave or wind
>> (assumes the house has disappeared above your head, and you
>> experience the tail edge of the shock wave).
>>
>> So maybe if you made a structure in the basement, it would
>> need to be bolted to the concrete floor (the legs). That's so,
>> if you thought the door was going to stop household debris that
>> had fallen on top of you, the orientation of the door remains
>> protective.
>>
>> Maybe with enough sandbags, you could do it with ballast.
>
> You were not expected to survive in the blast zones, and you chances
> were not too good in the areas around them. However, at least half the
> country was expected to be unaffected by the direct effects of a nuclear
> attack. That is where you would need protection from fallout and enough
> food, water and chemical loos to stay in there for at least two weeks.
>
>

The big problem is that pro-active people might have filled their
bath with water to drink, but the blast wave would drive all the
shit back up the pipes and spurt out of the toilet, contaminating
all that carefully saved water.

On 05/04/2023 14:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/04/2023 13:34, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 13:23, Paul wrote:
>>> On 4/5/2023 3:31 AM, alan_m wrote:
>>>> On 05/04/2023 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We were in New Zealand in 2019 when they had a test. Totally
>>>>> undramatic
>>>>> (but unmissable). Folk seem to be running around like headless
>>>>> chickens
>>>>> here with ridiculous “what if” scenarios.
>>>>
>>>> Unless the Government have provided nuclear warfare bunkers for the
>>>> all of the population and educated the population on what to do
>>>> there is no point in having a siren test?  I'll bet most people
>>>> would want to be oblivious of their death rather than being told
>>>> that they are going to die in 4 minutes time.
>>>>
>>>> Or is it like the 1960s again where on hearing the siren you are
>>>> meant to get out your DIY tools, take a door off its hinges and hide
>>>> under it until after the blast?
>>>>
>>>
>>> A fort made out of cardboard boxes.
>>>
>>> When I was younger, that always worked.
>>>
>>> Your main protection is getting below grade, as an earthworks
>>> of any sort, would help with the blast overpressure (5PSI).
>>> (That's like a couple hundred tons pressing against one side
>>> of the house.) Which is equivalent to something like a 163 MPH wind.
>>> Hard to say where your door ends up, during the shock wave or wind
>>> (assumes the house has disappeared above your head, and you
>>> experience the tail edge of the shock wave).
>>>
>>> So maybe if you made a structure in the basement, it would
>>> need to be bolted to the concrete floor (the legs). That's so,
>>> if you thought the door was going to stop household debris that
>>> had fallen on top of you, the orientation of the door remains
>>> protective.
>>>
>>> Maybe with enough sandbags, you could do it with ballast.
>>
>> You were not expected to survive in the blast zones, and you chances
>> were not too good in the areas around them. However, at least half the
>> country was expected to be unaffected by the direct effects of a
>> nuclear attack. That is where you would need protection from fallout
>> and enough food, water and chemical loos to stay in there for at least
>> two weeks.
>>
> I would agree with nearly all of that. Except the bit about protection
> from fallout. That was what they thought then, today we know it really
> isn't a huge issue.
> Iodine pills for a day or three, yes, after than no problemo. But given
> that most of the countries infrastructure was expected to be blown to
> hell, stockpiled food was no bad thing.,
>
> Back then loss of electricity would have been an inconvenience, today it
> would completely cripple our ability to function. I would expect more to
> die of cholera and typhoid due to the collapse of pumping stations and
> sewage processing plants
>
> And you can't run a cashless society without electricity.
>
>
>>
>
All the shops would be looted PDQ anyway. People deemed worth
saving would get emergency ration handouts.

On 05/04/2023 14:40, Spike wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 13:34, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 05/04/2023 13:23, Paul wrote:
>>>> On 4/5/2023 3:31 AM, alan_m wrote:
>>>>> On 05/04/2023 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We were in New Zealand in 2019 when they had a test. Totally undramatic
>>>>>> (but unmissable). Folk seem to be running around like headless chickens
>>>>>> here with ridiculous “what if” scenarios.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless the Government have provided nuclear warfare bunkers for the
>>>>> all of the population and educated the population on what to do there
>>>>> is no point in having a siren test?  I'll bet most people would want
>>>>> to be oblivious of their death rather than being told that they are
>>>>> going to die in 4 minutes time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or is it like the 1960s again where on hearing the siren you are
>>>>> meant to get out your DIY tools, take a door off its hinges and hide
>>>>> under it until after the blast?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A fort made out of cardboard boxes.
>>>>
>>>> When I was younger, that always worked.
>>>>
>>>> Your main protection is getting below grade, as an earthworks
>>>> of any sort, would help with the blast overpressure (5PSI).
>>>> (That's like a couple hundred tons pressing against one side
>>>> of the house.) Which is equivalent to something like a 163 MPH wind.
>>>> Hard to say where your door ends up, during the shock wave or wind
>>>> (assumes the house has disappeared above your head, and you
>>>> experience the tail edge of the shock wave).
>>>>
>>>> So maybe if you made a structure in the basement, it would
>>>> need to be bolted to the concrete floor (the legs). That's so,
>>>> if you thought the door was going to stop household debris that
>>>> had fallen on top of you, the orientation of the door remains
>>>> protective.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe with enough sandbags, you could do it with ballast.
>>>
>>> You were not expected to survive in the blast zones, and you chances
>>> were not too good in the areas around them. However, at least half the
>>> country was expected to be unaffected by the direct effects of a nuclear
>>> attack. That is where you would need protection from fallout and enough
>>> food, water and chemical loos to stay in there for at least two weeks.
>>>
>> I would agree with nearly all of that. Except the bit about protection
>> from fallout. That was what they thought then, today we know it really
>> isn't a huge issue.
>> Iodine pills for a day or three, yes, after than no problemo. But given
>> that most of the countries infrastructure was expected to be blown to
>> hell, stockpiled food was no bad thing.,
>>
>> Back then loss of electricity would have been an inconvenience, today it
>> would completely cripple our ability to function. I would expect more to
>> die of cholera and typhoid due to the collapse of pumping stations and
>> sewage processing plants
>>
>> And you can't run a cashless society without electricity.
>
> A 1MT high-altitude (100 mile high) burst over the North Sea will wipe out
> most electronics in the UK, although such a blast won’t kill anyone.
>
> What will kill people is the ensuing panic.
>
> Roving gangs of psychopaths will kill for food, booze, and sex.
>
> It won’t be pretty.
>

It's like that in parts of London now.

On 05/04/2023 10:48, Tim+ wrote:
> alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>> Or is it like the 1960s again where on hearing the siren you are meant
>> to get out your DIY tools, take a door off its hinges and hide under it
>> until after the blast?

Don't forget to whitewash the windows.

> Why do you think it’s only for nuclear attack warning? If you lived below a
> reservoir dam that was about to be breeched by extreme weather, you might
> be grateful for some warning.
>
> If your child was abducted from outside her school you might like a system
> that could alert everyone in an area.

What would we be supposed to do about that?

--
Max Demian

On 05/04/2023 15:15, Andrew wrote:
> On 05/04/2023 13:34, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 13:23, Paul wrote:
>>> On 4/5/2023 3:31 AM, alan_m wrote:
>>>> On 05/04/2023 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We were in New Zealand in 2019 when they had a test. Totally
>>>>> undramatic
>>>>> (but unmissable). Folk seem to be running around like headless
>>>>> chickens
>>>>> here with ridiculous “what if” scenarios.
>>>>
>>>> Unless the Government have provided nuclear warfare bunkers for the
>>>> all of the population and educated the population on what to do
>>>> there is no point in having a siren test?  I'll bet most people
>>>> would want to be oblivious of their death rather than being told
>>>> that they are going to die in 4 minutes time.
>>>>
>>>> Or is it like the 1960s again where on hearing the siren you are
>>>> meant to get out your DIY tools, take a door off its hinges and hide
>>>> under it until after the blast?
>>>>
>>>
>>> A fort made out of cardboard boxes.
>>>
>>> When I was younger, that always worked.
>>>
>>> Your main protection is getting below grade, as an earthworks
>>> of any sort, would help with the blast overpressure (5PSI).
>>> (That's like a couple hundred tons pressing against one side
>>> of the house.) Which is equivalent to something like a 163 MPH wind.
>>> Hard to say where your door ends up, during the shock wave or wind
>>> (assumes the house has disappeared above your head, and you
>>> experience the tail edge of the shock wave).
>>>
>>> So maybe if you made a structure in the basement, it would
>>> need to be bolted to the concrete floor (the legs). That's so,
>>> if you thought the door was going to stop household debris that
>>> had fallen on top of you, the orientation of the door remains
>>> protective.
>>>
>>> Maybe with enough sandbags, you could do it with ballast.
>>
>> You were not expected to survive in the blast zones, and you chances
>> were not too good in the areas around them. However, at least half the
>> country was expected to be unaffected by the direct effects of a
>> nuclear attack. That is where you would need protection from fallout
>> and enough food, water and chemical loos to stay in there for at least
>> two weeks.
>>
>>
>
> The big problem is that pro-active people might have filled their
> bath with water to drink, but the blast wave would drive all the
> shit back up the pipes and spurt out of the toilet, contaminating
> all that carefully saved water.

The ones who are going to survive are the ones that know their drinking
water needs to be stored in sealed containers and kept away from light.

--
Colin Bignell

On 05/04/2023 14:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/04/2023 13:34, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 05/04/2023 13:23, Paul wrote:
>>> On 4/5/2023 3:31 AM, alan_m wrote:
>>>> On 05/04/2023 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We were in New Zealand in 2019 when they had a test. Totally
>>>>> undramatic
>>>>> (but unmissable). Folk seem to be running around like headless
>>>>> chickens
>>>>> here with ridiculous “what if” scenarios.
>>>>
>>>> Unless the Government have provided nuclear warfare bunkers for the
>>>> all of the population and educated the population on what to do
>>>> there is no point in having a siren test?  I'll bet most people
>>>> would want to be oblivious of their death rather than being told
>>>> that they are going to die in 4 minutes time.
>>>>
>>>> Or is it like the 1960s again where on hearing the siren you are
>>>> meant to get out your DIY tools, take a door off its hinges and hide
>>>> under it until after the blast?
>>>>
>>>
>>> A fort made out of cardboard boxes.
>>>
>>> When I was younger, that always worked.
>>>
>>> Your main protection is getting below grade, as an earthworks
>>> of any sort, would help with the blast overpressure (5PSI).
>>> (That's like a couple hundred tons pressing against one side
>>> of the house.) Which is equivalent to something like a 163 MPH wind.
>>> Hard to say where your door ends up, during the shock wave or wind
>>> (assumes the house has disappeared above your head, and you
>>> experience the tail edge of the shock wave).
>>>
>>> So maybe if you made a structure in the basement, it would
>>> need to be bolted to the concrete floor (the legs). That's so,
>>> if you thought the door was going to stop household debris that
>>> had fallen on top of you, the orientation of the door remains
>>> protective.
>>>
>>> Maybe with enough sandbags, you could do it with ballast.
>>
>> You were not expected to survive in the blast zones, and you chances
>> were not too good in the areas around them. However, at least half the
>> country was expected to be unaffected by the direct effects of a
>> nuclear attack. That is where you would need protection from fallout
>> and enough food, water and chemical loos to stay in there for at least
>> two weeks.
>>
> I would agree with nearly all of that. Except the bit about protection
> from fallout. That was what they thought then, today we know it really
> isn't a huge issue.

I wouldn't want to breath in radioactive dust.

> Iodine pills for a day or three, yes, after than no problemo. But given
> that most of the countries infrastructure was expected to be blown to
> hell, stockpiled food was no bad thing.,
>
> Back then loss of electricity would have been an inconvenience, today it
> would completely cripple our ability to function. I would expect more to
> die of cholera and typhoid due to the collapse of pumping stations and
> sewage processing plants
>
> And you can't run a cashless society without electricity.
>
>
>>
>

--
Colin Bignell

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 05/04/2023 14:40, Spike wrote:
>> A 1MT high-altitude (100 mile high) burst over the North Sea will wipe out
>> most electronics in the UK, although such a blast won’t kill anyone.
>>
> I wonder.
>
>> What will kill people is the ensuing panic.
>>
> Like lockdown?
>
>> Roving gangs of psychopaths will kill for food, booze, and sex.
>>
> So pretty much like the House of Commons writ large?
>
>> It won’t be pretty.
>
> They aren't.
>
> Joking apart how far would people get if cars are buggered due to EMP?
> As far as the tank will take them because the electric fuel pumps wont work.
>
> No, those gangs wouldn't last very long in the major cities. Once they
> had looted the supermarkets of food and drink.
>
> I actually think that EMP wouldn't be that bad. But until it happens no
> one knows.
>
> The Tsar Bomba was 50MT over Novaya Zemlya, No EMP effect.
> High altitude tests to produce EMP but nothing else show it could go a
> long way and be quite destructive, but to whom?
>
> Russia itself would be very vulnerable - more so than Europe.

The EMP from the K-3 300kt test at 180 miles over Sary Shagan in October
1962 put up to 3400A into an instrumented 570km telephone cable before it
failed, burned down the Karaganda power station, knocked out radars 1000km
away, and a six-month pause the cosmonaut programme is alleged to be due to
EMP damage to the electronic equipment at Baikonur, over 700km distant.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, some details released about the K-3
device revealed that it was not designed to be EMP-efficient.

--
Spike

On 05/04/2023 10:48, Tim+ wrote:

> Why do you think it’s only for nuclear attack warning? If you lived below a
> reservoir dam that was about to be breeched by extreme weather, you might
> be grateful for some warning.
>
> If your child was abducted from outside her school you might like a system
> that could alert everyone in an area.
>
> Lots of potential uses (and misuses) but in itself, the facility sounds
> like a very useful thing.

For flooding or living under a dam you would opt in for the warning.
Alerting a whole nation for a local event is a sure way for people to
ignore such warnings in the future. Very much like too many fire drills
where everyone just assumes "just another fire drill - bollocks to that
it's raining/snowing outside".

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m wrote:

> Alerting a whole nation for a local event is a sure way for people to
> ignore such warnings in the future.

The test will include all sites, but real alerts can be local or
national depending on the nature of the alert ...

On 05 Apr 2023 at 13:57:50 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> The one thing that does make a difference, and is present in reactor
> leaks and nuclear blasts, is radio iodine, which fortunately is gone ion
> a matter of hours. However if you don't flood your body with (ordinary)
> iodine come may end up in the thyroid and give you thyroid cancer.

Agree about the thyroid part but it's a little longer than hours. A kilo of
I-131 will decay entirely (not a single atom left) in a little over 22 months.
Even a 1000 tons is all gone after 28 months.

--
"I am enclosing two tickets to the first night of my new play; bring a friend.... if you have one." - GB Shaw to Churchill. "Cannot possibly attend first night, will attend second... if there is one." - Winston Churchill, in response.