On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 17:11:32 +1000, Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <op.13r0oxuebyq249@pvr2.lan>, Rod Speed
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> writes
>> On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 00:01:04 +1000, fred <tpmccann@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In years gone by, before the advent of alarm clocks, factory owners
>>> employed 'Knocker uppers' to rap on employees windows to waken them up.
>>> My question is, who wakened up the knocker upper?
>>
>> Not everyone needs anything to wake them up.
>>
>> I never did. I did set an alarm before flying out first thing
>> in the morning, but never actually had it wake me up,
>> I always woke up before the alarm went off.
>
> When you know you have something important on, and have to get up
> earlier than usual, it's probably fairly usual to sleep lightly, and to
> wake up well before the alarm goes off.

I don't in fact sleep lightly in that situation.

> You may get up earlier, and forget to switch the alarm off - and it goes
> off when you're having your breakfast.

I always remember to switch the alarm off.

On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 17:13:11 +1000, Colin Bignell
<cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:

> On 22/04/2023 01:36, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 00:15:14 +1000, Colin Bignell
>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 21/04/2023 15:01, fred wrote:
>>>> In years gone by, before the advent of alarm clocks, factory owners
>>>> employed 'Knocker uppers' to rap on employees windows to waken them
>>>> up.
>>>> My question is, who wakened up the knocker upper?
>>>
>>> The people who were woken employed the knocker-up, not the factory
>>> owners. That is why they rapped on windows, rather than standing in
>>> the street with a rattle or a whistle: they didn't want to wake
>>> anybody who wasn't paying to be woken.
>>>
>>> The knocker-up was a night shift worker, so slept by day.
>> Doesnt explain how they could be knocking up before their night shift
>> ended.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knocker-up
>
> It does,

Nope.

> if you understand that they were only employed as a knocker-up

In which case they weren't part of the NIGHT SHIFT.

> and that was what they were working a night shift on.

The knocker up work is a tiny part of the night shift time wise.

And in fact they weren't mostly employed by the
workplace, they were in fact independent people
who were paid by those they knocked up.

On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 17:17:00 +1000, Colin Bignell
<cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:

> On 22/04/2023 07:23, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Colin Bignell wrote:
>>
>>> It is as well that knockers-up were still working into the 1970s then.
>>> Gas lamp lighters, however, I don't remember after the 1950s.
>> I remember factories up to the 70's having their own siren to call-in
>> the workers.
>>
> I was under the impression that those were used to mark shift start and
> finish times.

Yep

On 21-Apr-23 21:23, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 21/04/2023 20:14, Sam Plusnet wrote:

>> Even in the 1950s people would have to allow for their alarm clock
>> gaining or losing (maybe) 20 minutes or so overnight.
>> There was usually a tiny adjuster on the back of the clock, but even
>> the slightest touch would cause it to over/undershoot by a large margin.
>>
>
> It is as well that knockers-up were still working into the 1970s then.
> Gas lamp lighters, however, I don't remember after the 1950s.

Our village only had one gas lamp[1] - just outside the railway
station[2]. I assume turning it on & off was a job for the station staff.

[1] But plenty of lamps powered by electricity.

[2] Station, line & lamp stolen by Dr Beeching.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 22-Apr-23 9:02, NY wrote:
> On 21/04/2023 20:14, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> Even in the 1950s people would have to allow for their alarm clock
>> gaining or losing (maybe) 20 minutes or so overnight.
>> There was usually a tiny adjuster on the back of the clock, but even
>> the slightest touch would cause it to over/undershoot by a large margin.
>
> Sounds very odd. Clockwork clocks have never gained or lost *that* much
> for me - 20 minutes overnight (eg 11 PM to 7 AM) is a very large error.
> Or was there something about the alarm mechanism in early alarm clocks
> which made them inherently less accurate or harder to adjust than normal
> time-of-day clocks?
>
They were very cheaply made.
There were certainly more accurate clocks to be had, but they cost a
d@mn sight more.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 21-Apr-23 15:01, fred wrote:
> In years gone by, before the advent of alarm clocks, factory owners employed 'Knocker uppers' to rap on employees windows to waken them up.
> My question is, who wakened up the knocker upper?

I've just noticed that "factory owners employed 'Knocker uppers'" part
of this post.
As far as I know, it was usual for the individuals to pay the knocker
upper, not the employer.
This was cheaper than getting your wages docked for being late (or fired
for repeat offences).

--
Sam Plusnet

On 22/04/2023 14:57, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> Am 22/04/2023 um 11:29 schrieb Brian Gaff:
>> Maybe he used  an alarm clock powered by an hourglass?
>>   Brian
>>
>
> Asking for a friend, you guys in Angloshire never had roosters as low
> tech alarm clocks?

Nowhere to keep chickens in a mill town terraced house. The front door
opened straight onto the street and the back yard was just about large
enough for the outdoor privy and, possibly, a coal hole and somewhere to
hang washing.

Or is it something only vile Continentals do?
>
>

--
Colin Bignell

On 22/04/2023 19:22, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 21-Apr-23 15:01, fred wrote:
>> In years gone by, before the advent of alarm clocks, factory owners
>> employed 'Knocker uppers' to rap on employees windows to waken them up.
>> My question is, who wakened up the knocker upper?
>
> I've just noticed that "factory owners employed 'Knocker uppers'" part
> of this post.
> As far as I know, it was usual for the individuals to pay the knocker
> upper, not the employer.
> This was cheaper than getting your wages docked for being late (or fired
> for repeat offences).
>

My later partner's ex-husband's grandfather used to stand at the gates
to his factory, watch in hand. Anybody who arrived late, got docked 15
minutes pay for even just one minute late.

--
Colin Bignell

On 22-Apr-23 2:40, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 05:14:57 +1000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

>> I would question that "reliable alarm clocks" comment.
>>
>> Even in the 1950s people would have to allow for their alarm clock
>> gaining or losing (maybe) 20 minutes or so overnight.
>
> BULLSHIT.  None of ours ever did anything like that.
>
>> There was usually a tiny adjuster on the back of the clock, but even
>> the slightest touch would cause it to over/undershoot by a large margin.
>
> BULLSHIT.

Bovine excrement seems to be your specialist subject.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 22-Apr-23 18:39, David wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 07:01:04 -0700, fred wrote:
>
>> In years gone by, before the advent of alarm clocks, factory owners
>> employed 'Knocker uppers' to rap on employees windows to waken them up.
>> My question is, who wakened up the knocker upper?
>
> There was a knocker upper knocker upper.
> and for them, a knocker upper knocker upper knocker upper.
>
> [Basically turtles all the way down.]

But what happens if the knocker upper's knocker upper gets knocked up?

--
Sam Plusnet

On Sun, 23 Apr 2023 04:16:17 +1000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

> On 22-Apr-23 2:40, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Apr 2023 05:14:57 +1000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>>> I would question that "reliable alarm clocks" comment.
>>>
>>> Even in the 1950s people would have to allow for their alarm clock
>>> gaining or losing (maybe) 20 minutes or so overnight.
>> BULLSHIT. None of ours ever did anything like that.
>>
>>> There was usually a tiny adjuster on the back of the clock, but even
>>> the slightest touch would cause it to over/undershoot by a large
>>> margin.
>> BULLSHIT.
>
> Bovine excrement seems to be your specialist subject.

You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

On Friday, April 21, 2023 at 8:15:01 PM UTC+1, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 21-Apr-23 18:26, Bing AI wrote:
> > On 21/04/2023 15:01, fred wrote:
> >
> >> In years gone by, before the advent of alarm clocks, factory owners
> >> employed 'Knocker uppers' to rap on employees windows to waken them up..
> >> My question is, who wakened up the knocker upper?
> >
> > That’s an interesting question! According to an article on The Vintage
> > News, it seems that some knocker-uppers stayed up all night until they
> > had finished their duties. However, there is no definitive answer as to
> > who woke up the knocker-uppers themselves. Eventually, around the 1920s,
> > reliable alarm clocks became affordable to the masses and the
> > knocker-upper was no longer needed [1].
> >
> > [1]
> > https://www.thevintagenews.com/2015/12/23/before-alarm-clocks-there-was-a-profession-called-a-knocker-upper/
> I would question that "reliable alarm clocks" comment.
>
> Even in the 1950s people would have to allow for their alarm clock
> gaining or losing (maybe) 20 minutes or so overnight.
> There was usually a tiny adjuster on the back of the clock, but even the
> slightest touch would cause it to over/undershoot by a large margin.
>
> --
> Sam Plusnet

I had a three legged alarm clock. The back leg was missing so I usd to prop it up in a corner of the night stand. Invariably when it staarted to ring it would skit out , land on its back, and turn itself off

On 21/04/2023 15:01, fred wrote:
> In years gone by, before the advent of alarm clocks, factory owners employed 'Knocker uppers' to rap on employees windows to waken them up.
> My question is, who wakened up the knocker upper?

His wife.