On 21/07/2023 18:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 21/07/2023 18:01, Andrew wrote:
>> On 20/07/2023 22:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>> On 20/07/2023 in message <khtmp7F6ef3U11@mid.individual.net> Bob
>>> Eager wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:09:35 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Seems that Our Nige has been vindicated. See:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66258137
>>>>
>>>> Maybe. It doesn't make him any less of a grifting tosser.
>>>
>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>
>>
>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
> No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...

Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the biggest
war since WW2.

Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.

Andy

On 22/07/2023 in message <u9gaca$3p6pv$1@dont-email.me> Vir Campestris
wrote:

>>>>He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>
>Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the biggest war
>since WW2.
>
>Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.

Absolutely right but you won't get anywhere arguing that with remainiacs.

I am taking a leaf from their book over a couple of the recent
bye-elections. I don't like the results so I am campaigning for a re-run.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his friends for his
life.
(Jeremy Thorpe, 1962)

On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 10:53:09 +0000, Jeff Gaines wrote:

> On 22/07/2023 in message <u9gaca$3p6pv$1@dont-email.me> Vir Campestris
> wrote:
>
>>>>>He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>>No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>>
>>Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the biggest
>>war since WW2.
>>
>>Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.
>
> Absolutely right but you won't get anywhere arguing that with
> remainiacs.
>
> I am taking a leaf from their book over a couple of the recent
> bye-elections. I don't like the results so I am campaigning for a
> re-run.

No need to campaign - you'll get one anyway no later than just over a
year away.

That's the difference you see!

nib

In message <xn0o4n5b82x4anx00e@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
<jgnewsid@outlook.com> writes
>On 22/07/2023 in message <u9gaca$3p6pv$1@dont-email.me> Vir Campestris
>wrote:
>
>>>>>He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>>No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>>
>>Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the biggest
>>war since WW2.
>>
>>Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.

Tell that to the businesses (mainly the smaller ones) who, because of
all the extra paperwork etc, find it costly or no longer economically
viable to trade with the EU!
>
>Absolutely right but you won't get anywhere arguing that with remainiacs.

No self-respecting remainiac will claim that the present economic
situation is all due to Brexit. Nevertheless, some economic experts
reckon that we're about 5 per cent poorer because of it.
<https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en-GB&gbv=2&q=berxit+economy&oq=berxi
t+economy&aqs=heirloom-srp..>
>
>I am taking a leaf from their book over a couple of the recent
>bye-elections. I don't like the results so I am campaigning for a
>re-run.
>
No need to bother. Fortunately, the re-runs won't have to wait 'for a
generation' until they can take place. They are already been scheduled
for the exactly same date as the next general election (less than two
years time). [Depending on circumstances, some could possibly be even
earlier.]
--
Ian
Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

On 22/07/2023 11:17, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 21/07/2023 18:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 21/07/2023 18:01, Andrew wrote:
>>> On 20/07/2023 22:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>> On 20/07/2023 in message <khtmp7F6ef3U11@mid.individual.net> Bob
>>>> Eager wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:09:35 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems that Our Nige has been vindicated. See:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66258137
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe. It doesn't make him any less of a grifting tosser.
>>>>
>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>> No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>
> Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the biggest
> war since WW2.
>
> Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.
Other countries have been affected by the same things. The UK economy is
doing worse than European countries where the only difference is
membership of the EU. The effect of Brexit might be difficult to
quantify, but it can be detected.

--
Colin Bignell

On 22/07/2023 13:14, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 22/07/2023 11:17, Vir Campestris wrote:
>> On 21/07/2023 18:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 21/07/2023 18:01, Andrew wrote:
>>>> On 20/07/2023 22:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>> On 20/07/2023 in message <khtmp7F6ef3U11@mid.individual.net> Bob
>>>>> Eager wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:09:35 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems that Our Nige has been vindicated. See:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66258137
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe. It doesn't make him any less of a grifting tosser.
>>>>>
>>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>> No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>>
>> Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the biggest
>> war since WW2.
>>
>> Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.
> Other countries have been affected by the same things. The UK economy is
> doing worse than European countries where the only difference is
> membership of the EU. The effect of Brexit might be difficult to
> quantify, but it can be detected.

It's not that simple at all. It was recently stated that the
effectiveness of increased interest rates in the UK have been reduced,
compared to other countries, due to our very different mortgage market.
Differences like that preclude simple comparisons.

On 22/07/2023 11:17, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 21/07/2023 18:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 21/07/2023 18:01, Andrew wrote:
>>> On 20/07/2023 22:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>> On 20/07/2023 in message <khtmp7F6ef3U11@mid.individual.net> Bob
>>>> Eager wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:09:35 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems that Our Nige has been vindicated. See:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66258137
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe. It doesn't make him any less of a grifting tosser.
>>>>
>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>> No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>
> Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the biggest
> war since WW2.
>
> Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.
>
> Andy

It is detectable in our GDP figures and more worryingly,
what our projected GDP figures might be compared to what
was expected before Brexit.

On 22/07/2023 13:11, Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message <xn0o4n5b82x4anx00e@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
> <jgnewsid@outlook.com> writes
>> On 22/07/2023 in message <u9gaca$3p6pv$1@dont-email.me> Vir Campestris
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>>> No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>>>
>>> Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the
>>> biggest war since WW2.
>>>
>>> Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.
>
> Tell that to the businesses (mainly the smaller ones) who, because of
> all the extra paperwork etc, find it costly or no longer economically
> viable to trade with the EU!

And those EU companies who are no longer prepared to sell to
UK online buyers because of similar barriers.

On 21/07/2023 21:13, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 21/07/2023 19:03, Andrew wrote:
>> On 21/07/2023 19:00, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>> On 21/07/2023 in message <u9edl3$3bc12$1@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 20/07/2023 22:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>> On 20/07/2023 in message <khtmp7F6ef3U11@mid.individual.net> Bob
>>>>> Eager wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:09:35 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems that Our Nige has been vindicated. See:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66258137
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe. It doesn't make him any less of a grifting tosser.
>>>>>
>>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>>
>>> He ensured that we got a chance to vote on it and we voted to leave.
>>> I don't like the result of yesterday's bye election which allowed
>>> socialists in but it was a valid vote and I have to accept it.
>>>
>>
>> That was a temporary protest vote which will be different at the
>> next GE.
>
> It is unlikely the 23.7% swing seen in Selby will happen across the
> country in the GE, but Labour only need a 13% swing to get a majority.
> The current predictions are that there is a 98% probability of a Labour
> majority and a zero percent probability of a Conservative majority.
>

That 23.7% 'swing' is meaningless without knowing what the
turnout was. If huge numbers of Conservative voters simply
stayed at home, then the headline swing figure is a bit
meaningless.

On 22/07/2023 13:29, SteveW wrote:
> On 22/07/2023 13:14, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 22/07/2023 11:17, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>> On 21/07/2023 18:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 21/07/2023 18:01, Andrew wrote:
>>>>> On 20/07/2023 22:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>>> On 20/07/2023 in message <khtmp7F6ef3U11@mid.individual.net> Bob
>>>>>> Eager wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:09:35 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems that Our Nige has been vindicated. See:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66258137
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe. It doesn't make him any less of a grifting tosser.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>>> No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>>>
>>> Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the
>>> biggest war since WW2.
>>>
>>> Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.
>> Other countries have been affected by the same things. The UK economy
>> is doing worse than European countries where the only difference is
>> membership of the EU. The effect of Brexit might be difficult to
>> quantify, but it can be detected.
>
> It's not that simple at all. It was recently stated that the
> effectiveness of increased interest rates in the UK have been reduced,
> compared to other countries, due to our very different mortgage market.
> Differences like that preclude simple comparisons.

That sort of thing is why it is difficult to quantify, but it does not
follow that the effect cannot be detected.

--
Colin Bignell

On 22/07/2023 13:14, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 22/07/2023 11:17, Vir Campestris wrote:
>> On 21/07/2023 18:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 21/07/2023 18:01, Andrew wrote:
>>>> On 20/07/2023 22:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>> On 20/07/2023 in message <khtmp7F6ef3U11@mid.individual.net> Bob
>>>>> Eager wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:09:35 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems that Our Nige has been vindicated. See:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66258137
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe. It doesn't make him any less of a grifting tosser.
>>>>>
>>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>> No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>>
>> Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the biggest
>> war since WW2.
>>
>> Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.
> Other countries have been affected by the same things. The UK economy is
> doing worse than European countries where the only difference is
> membership of the EU. The effect of Brexit might be difficult to
> quantify, but it can be detected.
>
that is dogma, not fact. Every country is different. E.g. Germany's
dependence on Russian gas has comprehensively fucked it, whilst
Britain's fat arsed remoaner civil service has absolutely tried to
destroy the economy to prove 'brexit isn't working'

In reality its hardly made any difference because its hardly been
implemented, yet.

--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On 22/07/2023 13:58, Andrew wrote:
> On 22/07/2023 13:11, Ian Jackson wrote:
>> In message <xn0o4n5b82x4anx00e@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
>> <jgnewsid@outlook.com> writes
>>> On 22/07/2023 in message <u9gaca$3p6pv$1@dont-email.me> Vir
>>> Campestris wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>>>> No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>>>>
>>>> Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the
>>>> biggest war since WW2.
>>>>
>>>> Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.
>>
>> Tell that to the businesses (mainly the smaller ones) who, because of
>> all the extra paperwork etc, find it costly or no longer economically
>> viable to trade with the EU!
>
> And those EU companies who are no longer prepared to sell to
> UK online buyers because of similar barriers.
>

Their loss, China's gain.
I have found very little in Europe I want to buy, but even less that I
can't actually get.

Even a £10 pair of loudspeaker terminals and some schottky diodes came
through fine from ebay. France and Belgium. I also got a really nice
painting from Poland. German stuff seems harder, which is probably down
to Germany, not the EU.

In short the 'brexit made things worse' is largely a myth, an excuse for
failure and laziness.

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 22/07/2023 13:56, Andrew wrote:
> On 22/07/2023 11:17, Vir Campestris wrote:
>> On 21/07/2023 18:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 21/07/2023 18:01, Andrew wrote:
>>>> On 20/07/2023 22:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>> On 20/07/2023 in message <khtmp7F6ef3U11@mid.individual.net> Bob
>>>>> Eager wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:09:35 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems that Our Nige has been vindicated. See:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66258137
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe. It doesn't make him any less of a grifting tosser.
>>>>>
>>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>> No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>>
>> Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the biggest
>> war since WW2.
>>
>> Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.
>>
>> Andy
>
> It is detectable in our GDP figures and more worryingly,
> what our projected GDP figures might be compared to what
> was expected before Brexit.
Our 'projected GDP before brexit' was before Covid and before Ukraine,
so is totally meaningless

Your statement is credo, not credible

--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

On 22/07/2023 14:00, Andrew wrote:
> On 21/07/2023 21:13, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 21/07/2023 19:03, Andrew wrote:
>>> On 21/07/2023 19:00, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>> On 21/07/2023 in message <u9edl3$3bc12$1@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 20/07/2023 22:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>>> On 20/07/2023 in message <khtmp7F6ef3U11@mid.individual.net> Bob
>>>>>> Eager wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:09:35 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems that Our Nige has been vindicated. See:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66258137
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe. It doesn't make him any less of a grifting tosser.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>>>
>>>> He ensured that we got a chance to vote on it and we voted to leave.
>>>> I don't like the result of yesterday's bye election which allowed
>>>> socialists in but it was a valid vote and I have to accept it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That was a temporary protest vote which will be different at the
>>> next GE.
>>
>> It is unlikely the 23.7% swing seen in Selby will happen across the
>> country in the GE, but Labour only need a 13% swing to get a majority.
>> The current predictions are that there is a 98% probability of a
>> Labour majority and a zero percent probability of a Conservative
>> majority.
>>
>
> That 23.7% 'swing' is meaningless without knowing what the
> turnout was. If huge numbers of Conservative voters simply
> stayed at home, then the headline swing figure is a bit
> meaningless.

Most grass roots conservatives will vote Reform. As the only viable
alternative to a party that has totally dumped on them and the working
class, both.

--
“Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”

Dennis Miller

Am 22/07/2023 um 12:56 schrieb Andrew:
> On 22/07/2023 11:17, Vir Campestris wrote:
>> On 21/07/2023 18:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 21/07/2023 18:01, Andrew wrote:
>>>> On 20/07/2023 22:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>> On 20/07/2023 in message <khtmp7F6ef3U11@mid.individual.net> Bob
>>>>> Eager wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:09:35 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems that Our Nige has been vindicated. See:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66258137
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe. It doesn't make him any less of a grifting tosser.
>>>>>
>>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>> No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>>
>> Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the biggest
>> war since WW2.
>>
>> Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.
>>
>> Andy
>
> It is detectable in our GDP figures and more worryingly,
> what our projected GDP figures might be compared to what
> was expected before Brexit.

Yes, I've heard of European companies going bust for no longer selling
to the UK.

Not.

--
Ottavio Caruso

In article <FBOLNECud8ukFw6k@brattleho.plus.com>,
Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <xn0o4n5b82x4anx00e@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
> <jgnewsid@outlook.com> writes
> >On 22/07/2023 in message <u9gaca$3p6pv$1@dont-email.me> Vir Campestris
> >wrote:
> >
> >>>>>He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
> >>>No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
> >>
> >>Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the biggest
> >>war since WW2.
> >>
> >>Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.

> Tell that to the businesses (mainly the smaller ones) who, because of
> all the extra paperwork etc, find it costly or no longer economically
> viable to trade with the EU!

I certainly know of one small business who no longer sells to anyone in the
EU because of the amount of paperwork involved. He's lost a fair bit of
trade.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 22/07/2023 14:00, Andrew wrote:
> On 21/07/2023 21:13, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 21/07/2023 19:03, Andrew wrote:
>>> On 21/07/2023 19:00, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>> On 21/07/2023 in message <u9edl3$3bc12$1@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 20/07/2023 22:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>>> On 20/07/2023 in message <khtmp7F6ef3U11@mid.individual.net> Bob
>>>>>> Eager wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:09:35 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems that Our Nige has been vindicated. See:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66258137
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe. It doesn't make him any less of a grifting tosser.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>>>
>>>> He ensured that we got a chance to vote on it and we voted to leave.
>>>> I don't like the result of yesterday's bye election which allowed
>>>> socialists in but it was a valid vote and I have to accept it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That was a temporary protest vote which will be different at the
>>> next GE.
>>
>> It is unlikely the 23.7% swing seen in Selby will happen across the
>> country in the GE, but Labour only need a 13% swing to get a majority.
>> The current predictions are that there is a 98% probability of a
>> Labour majority and a zero percent probability of a Conservative
>> majority.
>>
>
> That 23.7% 'swing' is meaningless without knowing what the
> turnout was. If huge numbers of Conservative voters simply
> stayed at home, then the headline swing figure is a bit
> meaningless.

The turnout was 44.8%, which is not bad for a by-election. However,
whether the result was due to a large swing to Labour or apathy by
Conservatives, it still doesn't look promising for the government.

As things stand, the question seems to be not whether Labour will get a
majority at the next GE, but how big it will be. Electoral Calculus are
saying it would be 300 seats, if an election were to be held tomorrow.

--
Colin Bignell

On 22/07/2023 14:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 22/07/2023 14:00, Andrew wrote:
>> On 21/07/2023 21:13, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 21/07/2023 19:03, Andrew wrote:
>>>> On 21/07/2023 19:00, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>> On 21/07/2023 in message <u9edl3$3bc12$1@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 20/07/2023 22:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>>>> On 20/07/2023 in message <khtmp7F6ef3U11@mid.individual.net> Bob
>>>>>>> Eager wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:09:35 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seems that Our Nige has been vindicated. See:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66258137
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe. It doesn't make him any less of a grifting tosser.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>>>>
>>>>> He ensured that we got a chance to vote on it and we voted to
>>>>> leave. I don't like the result of yesterday's bye election which
>>>>> allowed socialists in but it was a valid vote and I have to accept it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That was a temporary protest vote which will be different at the
>>>> next GE.
>>>
>>> It is unlikely the 23.7% swing seen in Selby will happen across the
>>> country in the GE, but Labour only need a 13% swing to get a
>>> majority. The current predictions are that there is a 98% probability
>>> of a Labour majority and a zero percent probability of a Conservative
>>> majority.
>>>
>>
>> That 23.7% 'swing' is meaningless without knowing what the
>> turnout was. If huge numbers of Conservative voters simply
>> stayed at home, then the headline swing figure is a bit
>> meaningless.
>
> Most grass roots conservatives will vote Reform. As the only viable
> alternative to a party that has totally dumped on them and the working
> class, both.
>

ROFL. They didn't in Bunters old stomping ground. That pratt
Fox standing for Reform got so few votes he might have lost
his deposit.

In article <u9gjpi$3qg1k$1@dont-email.me>,
Andrew <Andrew97d@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 22/07/2023 13:11, Ian Jackson wrote:
> > In message <xn0o4n5b82x4anx00e@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
> > <jgnewsid@outlook.com> writes
> >> On 22/07/2023 in message <u9gaca$3p6pv$1@dont-email.me> Vir Campestris
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
> >>>> No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
> >>>
> >>> Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the
> >>> biggest war since WW2.
> >>>
> >>> Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.
> >
> > Tell that to the businesses (mainly the smaller ones) who, because of
> > all the extra paperwork etc, find it costly or no longer economically
> > viable to trade with the EU!

> And those EU companies who are no longer prepared to sell to
> UK online buyers because of similar barriers.

I met this on EBay recently "We do not sell to your country"

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 22/07/2023 in message <u9gjub$3qg1k$2@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:

>>It is unlikely the 23.7% swing seen in Selby will happen across the
>>country in the GE, but Labour only need a 13% swing to get a majority.
>>The current predictions are that there is a 98% probability of a Labour
>>majority and a zero percent probability of a Conservative majority.
>>
>
>That 23.7% 'swing' is meaningless without knowing what the
>turnout was. If huge numbers of Conservative voters simply
>stayed at home, then the headline swing figure is a bit
>meaningless.

I have extracted some figures (works better with fixed font):

Party 2019 2023

Labour 13,858 16,456

Conservative 33,995 12,295

Lib-Dem 4,842 1,188

The others are small figures that don't affect this.

The Conservatives dropped 21,000 votes or so, Lib-Dem dropped 3,500 or so
and Labour gained 3,300 or so.

That means many of those 21,000 dropped by the Conservatives just weren't
placed, or am I misreading this?

2019 source:
https://members.parliament.uk/constituency/3720/election/397

2023 source:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/full-results-key-stats-selby-27365627

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his friends for his
life.
(Jeremy Thorpe, 1962)

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 22/07/2023 13:14, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 22/07/2023 11:17, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>> On 21/07/2023 18:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 21/07/2023 18:01, Andrew wrote:
>>>>> On 20/07/2023 22:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>>> On 20/07/2023 in message <khtmp7F6ef3U11@mid.individual.net> Bob
>>>>>> Eager wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:09:35 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems that Our Nige has been vindicated. See:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66258137
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe. It doesn't make him any less of a grifting tosser.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>>> No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>>>
>>> Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the biggest
>>> war since WW2.
>>>
>>> Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.
>> Other countries have been affected by the same things. The UK economy is
>> doing worse than European countries where the only difference is
>> membership of the EU. The effect of Brexit might be difficult to
>> quantify, but it can be detected.
>>
> that is dogma, not fact. Every country is different. E.g. Germany's
> dependence on Russian gas has comprehensively fucked it, whilst
> Britain's fat arsed remoaner civil service has absolutely tried to
> destroy the economy to prove 'brexit isn't working'
>
> In reality its hardly made any difference because its hardly been
> implemented, yet.

And when it *is* implemented it will show just how much money we were
pouring down the EU plug hole and the Remoaners will have to stick their
ideas where the sun doesn't shine.
I hope I'm still alive to see it. I won't have to wait too long, but if I
don't, at least I have had the joy of getting my new (nearly) dark blue
passport arrive and remind me I'm not in the 4th Reich anymore.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

If all seems to be going well, you obviously have no idea what is really
happening.

In message <5ac7f8e5e5charles@candehope.me.uk>, charles
<charles@candehope.me.uk> writes
>In article <FBOLNECud8ukFw6k@brattleho.plus.com>,
> Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <xn0o4n5b82x4anx00e@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
>> <jgnewsid@outlook.com> writes
>> >On 22/07/2023 in message <u9gaca$3p6pv$1@dont-email.me> Vir Campestris
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >>>>>He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>> >>>No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>> >>
>> >>Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the biggest
>> >>war since WW2.
>> >>
>> >>Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.
>
>> Tell that to the businesses (mainly the smaller ones) who, because of
>> all the extra paperwork etc, find it costly or no longer economically
>> viable to trade with the EU!
>
>I certainly know of one small business who no longer sells to anyone in the
>EU because of the amount of paperwork involved. He's lost a fair bit of
>trade.
>
Don't forget it was Boris who said "Fuck business". In fairness, I doubt
if that was really his considered opinion (especially about Big
Business), but quite a lot of the small fry have certainly suffered from
Brexit.
--
Ian
Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

On 22 Jul 2023 at 15:32:17 BST, "Bob Henson" <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:

> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 22/07/2023 13:14, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 22/07/2023 11:17, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>>> On 21/07/2023 18:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 21/07/2023 18:01, Andrew wrote:
>>>>>> On 20/07/2023 22:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>>>> On 20/07/2023 in message <khtmp7F6ef3U11@mid.individual.net> Bob
>>>>>>> Eager wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:09:35 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seems that Our Nige has been vindicated. See:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66258137
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe. It doesn't make him any less of a grifting tosser.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>>>> No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>>>>
>>>> Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the biggest
>>>> war since WW2.
>>>>
>>>> Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.
>>> Other countries have been affected by the same things. The UK economy is
>>> doing worse than European countries where the only difference is
>>> membership of the EU. The effect of Brexit might be difficult to
>>> quantify, but it can be detected.
>>>
>> that is dogma, not fact. Every country is different. E.g. Germany's
>> dependence on Russian gas has comprehensively fucked it, whilst
>> Britain's fat arsed remoaner civil service has absolutely tried to
>> destroy the economy to prove 'brexit isn't working'
>>
>> In reality its hardly made any difference because its hardly been
>> implemented, yet.
>
> And when it *is* implemented it will show just how much money we were
> pouring down the EU plug hole and the Remoaners will have to stick their
> ideas where the sun doesn't shine.
>
> I hope I'm still alive to see it. I won't have to wait too long, but if I
> don't, at least I have had the joy of getting my new (nearly) dark blue
> passport arrive and remind me I'm not in the 4th Reich anymore.

What's amusing about the Remianers is their cognative dissonance. Claiming to
be democrats but pretending not to see that Ursula Van der Leyen cannot be
gotten rid of by any democratic election. Like Xi. Not even a pretence of one,
like Putin.

--
"People don't buy Microsoft for quality, they buy it for compatibility with what Bob in accounting bought last year. Trace it back - they buy Microsoft because the IBM Selectric didn't suck much" - P Seebach, afc

On 22/07/2023 15:00, charles wrote:
> In article <u9gjpi$3qg1k$1@dont-email.me>,
> Andrew <Andrew97d@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On 22/07/2023 13:11, Ian Jackson wrote:
>>> In message <xn0o4n5b82x4anx00e@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
>>> <jgnewsid@outlook.com> writes
>>>> On 22/07/2023 in message <u9gaca$3p6pv$1@dont-email.me> Vir Campestris
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> He got us out of the EU, he should have a peerage.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or done porridge for making us very much poorer
>>>>>> No, the banks and the Sunak puppeteers have done that...
>>>>>
>>>>> Since Brexit we've had the biggest plague in 100 years and the
>>>>> biggest war since WW2.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whatever effect Brexit has had is not detectable.
>>>
>>> Tell that to the businesses (mainly the smaller ones) who, because of
>>> all the extra paperwork etc, find it costly or no longer economically
>>> viable to trade with the EU!
>
>> And those EU companies who are no longer prepared to sell to
>> UK online buyers because of similar barriers.
>
> I met this on EBay recently "We do not sell to your country"
>
Bunch of cunts. Their loss.

--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

In article <v47mop1f1d8o.jt7drrw8hhkk$.dlg@40tude.net>,
Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:

>
> I hope I'm still alive to see it. I won't have to wait too long, but if I
> don't, at least I have had the joy of getting my new (nearly) dark blue
> passport arrive and remind me I'm not in the 4th Reich anymore.

All that expense just so that you could have a blue passport - gosh

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle