In my quest to find the problem with my lighting I am going to have to
lift some flooring upstairs.

I can get to it and lift the carpet/underlay OK. It is nailed Chipboard
and I really do not want to punch the nails through it. The ceilings here
are pristine Artex and I do not want to crack them. The place was built in
1983 so there must be a possibility there is asbestos in the Artex if old
stock was used.

Is there a method/tool that will enable me to pull the nails out without
ruining the floor or ceiling please?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
You can't tell which way the train went by looking at the tracks

On 26/07/2023 11:04, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> In my quest to find the problem with my lighting I am going to have to
> lift some flooring upstairs.
>
> I can get to it and lift the carpet/underlay OK. It is nailed Chipboard
> and I really do not want to punch the nails through it. The ceilings
> here are pristine Artex and I do not want to crack them. The place was
> built in 1983 so there must be a possibility there is asbestos in the
> Artex if old stock was used.
>
> Is there a method/tool that will enable me to pull the nails out without
> ruining the floor or ceiling please?
>
If you know where you need access you could use one of these
https://trenddirectuk.com/trend-rbt-1-routabout-jig-18mm-x-1-4-shank.html?
to cut a hole, rather than lifting the flooring - they work well.
It just so happens that I was thinking of selling mine because this
house doesn't have chipboard flooring.

On 26/07/2023 11:04, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> In my quest to find the problem with my lighting I am going to have to
> lift some flooring upstairs.
>
> I can get to it and lift the carpet/underlay OK. It is nailed Chipboard
> and I really do not want to punch the nails through it. The ceilings
> here are pristine Artex and I do not want to crack them. The place was
> built in 1983 so there must be a possibility there is asbestos in the
> Artex if old stock was used.
>
> Is there a method/tool that will enable me to pull the nails out without
> ruining the floor or ceiling please?

I haven't tried this, but how about drilling or grinding the hail heads
so the chipboard can be levered up, then pull the nail shafts out? Use
screw when you re-lay.

--
Cheers
Clive

Jeff Gaines wrote:

> Is there a method/tool that will enable me to pull the nails out without
> ruining the floor or ceiling please?

Small holesaw (without pilot drill in the arbor) around the nails?

"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote in message
news:xn0o4sqe21idy9n003@news.individual.net...
>
> In my quest to find the problem with my lighting I am going to have to
> lift some flooring upstairs.
>
> I can get to it and lift the carpet/underlay OK. It is nailed Chipboard
> and I really do not want to punch the nails through it. The ceilings here
> are pristine Artex and I do not want to crack them. The place was built in
> 1983 so there must be a possibility there is asbestos in the Artex if old
> stock was used.
>
> Is there a method/tool that will enable me to pull the nails out without
> ruining the floor or ceiling please?

Beware of glued boards. When a rat died in our loft and the smell was at the
point where we thought we'd have to move out for a while, I discovered that
the chipboard boards in the loft had been screwed down, but removing the
screws did not allow the boards to lift - even a board at the edge where any
tongue-and-groove would not apply (even if chipboard was made with
tongue-and-groove).

Fortunately I discovered that the rat had very kindly died *just* within the
distance that I could reach by going right into the eaves and shoving my
hand *gloved in a plastic bag* back under the board. Any further and we'd
have been stuffed. Half the battle was trying to find a small enough mirror
to look back under each board to find the corpse, and manipulating a torch
with my other hand.

I cursed the parentage of the bozo who had decided to glue the boards down,
as opposed to just relying on the screws. What's the point in using a
removable fixing like screws if you are then going to glue the boards down
and make the fixing permanent (as if nails had been used)?

On 26 Jul 2023 at 11:36:05 BST, "NY" wrote:

> <div id="editor" contenteditable="false">I cursed the parentage of the bozo
> who had decided to glue the boards down,
> as opposed to just relying on the screws. What's the point in using a
> removable fixing like screws if you are then going to glue the boards down
> and make the fixing permanent (as if nails had been used)?
>

Reduce movement and creaking? Although in loft space?!

Agreed though - PITA if you need to lift them. About to discover the same in
my kitchen . . .
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>
> In my quest to find the problem with my lighting I am going to have to
> lift some flooring upstairs.
>
> I can get to it and lift the carpet/underlay OK. It is nailed Chipboard
> and I really do not want to punch the nails through it. The ceilings here
> are pristine Artex and I do not want to crack them. The place was built in
> 1983 so there must be a possibility there is asbestos in the Artex if old
> stock was used.
>
> Is there a method/tool that will enable me to pull the nails out without
> ruining the floor or ceiling please?

I've always simply sawn a square out somewhere (after working out
where the joists are), then lever up from there if you haven't exposed
the area you need.

Put battens under the boards around the hole to support the sawn out
piece when you replace it.

--
Chris Green
·

On 26/07/2023 11:25, Andy Burns wrote:
> Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
>> Is there a method/tool that will enable me to pull the nails out
>> without ruining the floor or ceiling please?
>
> Small holesaw (without pilot drill in the arbor) around the nails?

+1 yup, if you use it with the pilot to make a hole through a scrap of
ply etc, then you can use the ply as a guide in place of the pilot.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 26/07/2023 11:04, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> In my quest to find the problem with my lighting I am going to have to
> lift some flooring upstairs.
>
> I can get to it and lift the carpet/underlay OK. It is nailed Chipboard
> and I really do not want to punch the nails through it. The ceilings
> here are pristine Artex and I do not want to crack them. The place was
> built in 1983 so there must be a possibility there is asbestos in the
> Artex if old stock was used.
>
> Is there a method/tool that will enable me to pull the nails out without
> ruining the floor or ceiling please?

I find you don't always need to lift a whole sheet - just getting an
access hole though will often do it. I have a floor access hole saw that
does the trick nicely. It cuts a 5" hole, and then mills a rebate around
the periphery of the hole. You can then just drop a steel repair disk
back in to to fill the hole.

https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Electrical_Installation#Under_floors

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>
> In my quest to find the problem with my lighting I am going to have to
> lift some flooring upstairs.
>
> I can get to it and lift the carpet/underlay OK. It is nailed Chipboard
> and I really do not want to punch the nails through it. The ceilings here
> are pristine Artex and I do not want to crack them. The place was built in
> 1983 so there must be a possibility there is asbestos in the Artex if old
> stock was used.
>
> Is there a method/tool that will enable me to pull the nails out without
> ruining the floor or ceiling please?
>

Our first house was built in the early 70’s and had 8 X 4 18mm chipboard
floors, I lifted several of these just by punching the nails through and
the ceilings below remained sound and crack free.

I suspect a 1983 house will not have glued boards so you should not have
too much of an issue lifting the boards. The modern trend is not to lift
whole boards but to use floor board saws as described by John even for
plumbing with the advent of plastic pipes. If you do have to lift boards
owing to have to pass through several joists then do not cut sections
smaller than 2’ wide as you will find it hard to avoid flexing afterwards.
Someone has already described how to refit sections.

As for seeing under floors in awkward spaces your mobile phone is your
friend.

Richard

On 26/07/2023 in message <xn0o4sqe21idy9n003@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

>Is there a method/tool that will enable me to pull the nails out without
>ruining the floor or ceiling please?

Many thanks for all the responses so far :-)

It strikes me this might be a good excuse to get myself an endoscope to
attach to my tablet so I can try and find the connection/transformer
before I start lifting boards. Is that a plan? Any recommendations for a
make/model?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
How does a gender neutral bog differ from a unisex bog ?
It has a non-binary number on the door.

On 26/07/2023 11:36, NY wrote:

> I cursed the parentage of the bozo who had decided to glue the boards
> down, as opposed to just relying on the screws. What's the point in
> using a removable fixing like screws if you are then going to glue the
> boards down and make the fixing permanent (as if nails had been used)?

Some of my my old chipboard went spongy, it was supposed to be glued but
wasn't.

I levelled a floor, so needed to get it all up. When I put it back down,
I glued and screwed it. I glued it at the joins, and gripfill underneath
to stop it squeaking,

So curse me if you want :-)

FWIW, getting the boards up, I pulled the old nails. It wasn't that
hard. To get them going, I used a tack puller. I broke a few of the tack
pullers, but they only cost a few quid. The moment you have enough
space, you can use a proper nail puller.

In message <xn0o4sta41mfcvt007@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
<jgnewsid@outlook.com> writes
>On 26/07/2023 in message <xn0o4sqe21idy9n003@news.individual.net> Jeff
>Gaines wrote:
>
>>Is there a method/tool that will enable me to pull the nails out
>>without ruining the floor or ceiling please?
>
>Many thanks for all the responses so far :-)
>
>It strikes me this might be a good excuse to get myself an endoscope to
>attach to my tablet so I can try and find the connection/transformer
>before I start lifting boards. Is that a plan? Any recommendations for
>a make/model?

I used the smaller version of these pullers. You whack the back with a
hammer to get the jaws under the nail head.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B083J1DFLH/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i
=B083J1DFLH&pd_rd_w=ilWjV&content-id=amzn1.sym.84ea1bf1-65a8-4363-b8f5-f0
df58cbb686&pf_rd_p=84ea1bf1-65a8-4363-b8f5-f0df58cbb686&pf_rd_r=GMC85BKTN
99N635N9R9A&pd_rd_wg=gEIdW&pd_rd_r=845e5dbf-42ca-4c6e-b633-1090e79933a6&s
=diy&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw

Oops. Watch the wrap.
>

--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:

> I used the smaller version of these pullers. You whack the back with a
> hammer to get the jaws under the nail head.
>
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B083J1DFLH/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i
> =B083J1DFLH&pd_rd_w=ilWjV&content-id=amzn1.sym.84ea1bf1-65a8-4363-b8f5-f0
> df58cbb686&pf_rd_p=84ea1bf1-65a8-4363-b8f5-f0df58cbb686&pf_rd_r=GMC85BKTN
> 99N635N9R9A&pd_rd_wg=gEIdW&pd_rd_r=845e5dbf-42ca-4c6e-b633-1090e79933a6&s
> =diy&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw
>
> Oops. Watch the wrap.

Most of it's not needed ... just the code after slash dp slash

<https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B083J1DFLH>

I think I'd need to see a lot of nail-pulling in my future to buy these
with a 'beak' and slide-hammer

<https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B001CKAR4Q>

In article <u9r54t$1gdkm$1@dont-email.me>,
Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
> On 26/07/2023 11:36, NY wrote:

> > I cursed the parentage of the bozo who had decided to glue the boards
> > down, as opposed to just relying on the screws. What's the point in
> > using a removable fixing like screws if you are then going to glue the
> > boards down and make the fixing permanent (as if nails had been used)?

> Some of my my old chipboard went spongy, it was supposed to be glued but
> wasn't.

> I levelled a floor, so needed to get it all up. When I put it back down,
> I glued and screwed it. I glued it at the joins, and gripfill underneath
> to stop it squeaking,

> So curse me if you want :-)

> FWIW, getting the boards up, I pulled the old nails. It wasn't that
> hard. To get them going, I used a tack puller. I broke a few of the tack
> pullers, but they only cost a few quid. The moment you have enough
> space, you can use a proper nail puller.

when I fitted chipboard in part of my loft, I found it came with T&G ends.
That makes it difficult to remove ones in the middle.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 26/07/2023 12:57, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 26/07/2023 in message <xn0o4sqe21idy9n003@news.individual.net> Jeff
> Gaines wrote:
>
>> Is there a method/tool that will enable me to pull the nails out
>> without ruining the floor or ceiling please?
>
> Many thanks for all the responses so far :-)
>
> It strikes me this might be a good excuse to get myself an endoscope to
> attach to my tablet so I can try and find the connection/transformer
> before I start lifting boards. Is that a plan? Any recommendations for a
> make/model?
>

<https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01MR8EONS?ref_=pe_3187911_248764861_302_E_DDE_dt_1&th=1>

Mine is years old and wifi, but USB would be just as good, the wifi is a
pain. (it creates a wifi hotspot that the phone wifi needs to connect to).

Also, my endoscope camera has a focal length of 2cm, which can make it
difficult to use under floor boards.

For a nail puller, the links you have been given are good, but I also
used these:

<https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lifter-Staple-Puller-Remover-Screwdriver/dp/B0828XDBCK/>

They get a nail started, so you can then use a bigger puller. They
break, so three is a good number.

On 26/07/2023 in message <kicnhqFcekU1@mid.individual.net> Andy Burns wrote:

>I think I'd need to see a lot of nail-pulling in my future to buy these
>with a 'beak' and slide-hammer
>
><https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B001CKAR4Q>

Many thanks Tim & Andy :-)

I suspect the issue with those pullers is getting them through the wood to
the nail head? I will keep searching, if I know exactly where I need to
get it will narrow the problem down.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Every day is a good day for chicken, unless you're a chicken.

On 26/07/2023 12:26, Tricky Dicky wrote:
> Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>> In my quest to find the problem with my lighting I am going to have to
>> lift some flooring upstairs.
>>
>> I can get to it and lift the carpet/underlay OK. It is nailed Chipboard
>> and I really do not want to punch the nails through it. The ceilings here
>> are pristine Artex and I do not want to crack them. The place was built in
>> 1983 so there must be a possibility there is asbestos in the Artex if old
>> stock was used.
>>
>> Is there a method/tool that will enable me to pull the nails out without
>> ruining the floor or ceiling please?
>>

> As for seeing under floors in awkward spaces your mobile phone is your
> friend.

Waiting for the thread on how to recover a mobile lost under a floor now :-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 26/07/2023 in message <u9raes$1h0bv$1@dont-email.me> Pancho wrote:

>On 26/07/2023 12:57, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>On 26/07/2023 in message <xn0o4sqe21idy9n003@news.individual.net> Jeff
>>Gaines wrote:
>>
>>>Is there a method/tool that will enable me to pull the nails out without
>>>ruining the floor or ceiling please?
>>
>>Many thanks for all the responses so far :-)
>>
>>It strikes me this might be a good excuse to get myself an endoscope to
>>attach to my tablet so I can try and find the connection/transformer
>>before I start lifting boards. Is that a plan? Any recommendations for a
>>make/model?
>>
>
>
><https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01MR8EONS?ref_=pe_3187911_248764861_302_E_DDE_dt_1&th=1>
>
>Mine is years old and wifi, but USB would be just as good, the wifi is a
>pain. (it creates a wifi hotspot that the phone wifi needs to connect to).
>
>Also, my endoscope camera has a focal length of 2cm, which can make it
>difficult to use under floor boards.
>
>
>For a nail puller, the links you have been given are good, but I also used
>these:
>
><https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lifter-Staple-Puller-Remover-Screwdriver/dp/B0828XDBCK/>
>
>They get a nail started, so you can then use a bigger puller. They break,
>so three is a good number.

Many thanks :-)

Funnily enough I'd just found the staple remover as I thought they'd start
the hole as you say. What about a 4 mm or so plug cutter to cut round the
head so I can get a decent puller in followed by a claw hammer?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Those are my principles – and if you don’t like them, well, I have
others.
(Groucho Marx)

Jeff Gaines wrote:

> I suspect the issue with those pullers is getting them through the wood
> to the nail head?

There will be a bit of damage ... this chap is normally into pretty good
quality woodworking, so if he uses them, it's the tool to minimise that
damage ...

<https://youtu.be/573UbJ3tgQI?t=31>

On Wed, 26 Jul 23 14:15:02 UTC, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:

>
>when I fitted chipboard in part of my loft, I found it came with T&G ends.
>That makes it difficult to remove ones in the middle.

I got some from B&Q approx 25 years ago that was T&G on the long
sides.

In message <kicnhqFcekU1@mid.individual.net>, Andy Burns
<usenet@andyburns.uk> writes
>Tim Lamb wrote:
>
>> I used the smaller version of these pullers. You whack the back with
>>a hammer to get the jaws under the nail head.
>>
>>https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B083J1DFLH/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd>>_i
>> =B083J1DFLH&pd_rd_w=ilWjV&content-id=amzn1.sym.84ea1bf1-65a8-4363-b8f5-f0
>> df58cbb686&pf_rd_p=84ea1bf1-65a8-4363-b8f5-f0df58cbb686&pf_rd_r=GMC85BKTN
>> 99N635N9R9A&pd_rd_wg=gEIdW&pd_rd_r=845e5dbf-42ca-4c6e-b633-1090e79933a6&s
>> =diy&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw
>> Oops. Watch the wrap.
>
>Most of it's not needed ... just the code after slash dp slash
>
><https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B083J1DFLH>
>
>I think I'd need to see a lot of nail-pulling in my future to buy these
>with a 'beak' and slide-hammer
>
><https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B001CKAR4Q>

I have one. Handy for farm fencing rail removal where 4" flat head nails
used.
>
>

--
Tim Lamb

On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 11:05:00 UTC+1, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> In my quest to find the problem with my lighting I am going to have to
> lift some flooring upstairs.
>
> I can get to it and lift the carpet/underlay OK. It is nailed Chipboard
> and I really do not want to punch the nails through it. The ceilings here
> are pristine Artex and I do not want to crack them. The place was built in
> 1983 so there must be a possibility there is asbestos in the Artex if old
> stock was used.
>
> Is there a method/tool that will enable me to pull the nails out without
> ruining the floor or ceiling please?

Reading all the tool sugestions it seems this is getting overthought. Just jam a small point in to remove a bit of the chip by the nailhead, and you have access. Any vaguely sharp tool with small head should do it, even a screwdriver if you bash it a bit.

Gluing & screwing every 6" creates a stressed box structure which is stronger than just screws. But it's a pita later.

"Peter Johnson" <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote in message
news:p1k2cipea889kevics8fmrv0p9fr522egs@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 26 Jul 23 14:15:02 UTC, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>when I fitted chipboard in part of my loft, I found it came with T&G ends.
>>That makes it difficult to remove ones in the middle.
>
> I got some from B&Q approx 25 years ago that was T&G on the long
> sides.

Sadly ours was fixed by forces other than its screws. I tried a corner piece
which was open on the short edge and the long edge at right angles to it
(and maybe fasten by T&G on the other two sides). I undid all the screws and
tried to pull at the "open" corner. Even if there had been T&G on the
opposite sides, it should have moved a little bit. It didn't. It had been
glued - or else invisibly nailed, though I scanned the edges of the board
for recessed nail heads.

First rule of DIY (as far as I am concerned) is make things removable in
case access is needed - so no glue and no nails: screws only.

My problem was locating the dead rat in the first place because the smell
was so strong everywhere that I couldn't use the "getting warmer" approach
to tracing where the smell was strongest. It could have been anywhere in a
loft that was three rooms wide and two rooms from front to back. It was an
ex council house and despite what people say about council houses, this one
had been built very well. The loft had full-height access from one end to
the other, with no cross-bracing to get in the way apart from at above head
height (and the floor of the loft / ceiling of the first floor). And the
whole area had been boarded, which made an excellent storage space.

So with no way to locate the rat by smell, and with sight only being useful
if the rat had died close to the edge of the boarding at the eaves, I'd have
had to lift every single board in turn, so if lifting proved difficult
(glue) I'd have had a lot of crowbarring - or sawing, chiseling off the
remnants and replacing of boards. There was also the little matter that the
boards pre-dated the loft access: they were larger than the loft hatch... So
I'd have had to replace them with smaller ones that would fit through the
hatch,

Thankfully "my" rat was very polite and died within arm's reach of the
eaves. I really don't know what we'd have done otherwise, because after a
few days the whole house stank to high heaven and was almost uninhabitable -
and this happened during the winter, so leaving the windows open wasn't a
viable prospect. I wonder if household/buildings insurance pays towards
costs of getting the job done provfessionally.

On 27/07/2023 in message <u9ta0r$1r7ra$1@dont-email.me> NY wrote:

>Thankfully "my" rat was very polite and died within arm's reach of the
>eaves.

The moral of this story is always breed well-behaved rats :-)

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
If it's not broken, mess around with it until it is