On 11/7/21 10:43 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 11/07/2021 8:33 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 11/7/21 7:32 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2021 6:11 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>> On 11/7/21 5:36 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 11/07/2021 1:08 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/7/21 11:19 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/07/2021 12:53 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 6:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 7:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikpspfF97scU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2021 11:17 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/07/2021 4:14 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ikkma7F968rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/7/21 1:07 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2021 10:10 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:15:04 +1000, Yosemite Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <felix@invalid.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M$ support for W10 will end in 2025, but literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of PC owners
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide will be unable to upgrade to W11!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH4zEBmztc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots more vids about it on youtube and articles on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has always made operating systems that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> require one to buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new computers, then they can sell another operating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never a upgrade though always a downgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best operating system was "Win 3.11", been downgraded
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever since.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You're dreaming. The PC operating system was OS/2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed by Windows 2000. Windows XP was, basically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Win2k, with more automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the only real difference was in the desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> environment. The underlying XP OS was the same as Win2k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, if OS/2 had made it in the marketplace.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 died because it was marketed wrongly by *IBM*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem wasn’t marketing, it was that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to replace everything you already had.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> True but it was a combination of both.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS/2 continued on for years inside IBM professional products.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And they sold fuck all of those. It was always a dud market
>>>>>>>>>>>> wise.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think that you understand,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Corse I know what that means.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> by the professional market I mean mainframe and mini markets.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's where IBM have always made the majority of their money.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Still sweet fuck all with OS/2
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You have no idea, OS/2 was used in controllers on the machinery
>>>>>>>>> that make the commercial world work. The PC world is just the
>>>>>>>>> periphery of that and toys for amateurs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LOL, OS/2 was an industry joke you clown.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> iirc OS/2 was good on early PC's. apps ran in their own memory
>>>>>>> space which made it very stable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It died because of lack of general industry support. It wouldn't
>>>>>> have mattered how stable it was.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Like I have said, it didn't die, it carried on inside IBMs
>>>>> professional products. E.G. it was used in micro-channel PCs as the
>>>>> controllers for the later 3890 cheque sorters and IBMs rather weird
>>>>> automatic tape library that used a Fanuc industrial robot (Telstra
>>>>> had one). It was also used in Fujitsu ATMs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably many other applications as well, its just that a lot of
>>>>> people here only know the PC side of the industry that would appear
>>>>> to include you and definitely includes Speed.
>>>>
>>>> Me definitely. Closest I have been to a Mini was the PDP11 at the
>>>> college. As I have stated often, my only involvement beyond desktop
>>>> PCs was the networking thereof at the college. I have never
>>>> professed to have involvement beyond that. My point was, it was an
>>>> attempt by IBM to wrest back control of the desktop PC market - and
>>>> it failed. That harks back to when IBM released the PS/2 with MCA
>>>> and supplied with the OS2 operating system. If you recall, IBM was
>>>> trying to prevent a proliferation of clones using MCA and all they
>>>> ended up achieving was to limit the proliferation of MCA into the
>>>> desktop market. I am not arguing whether OS2 and MCA was superior to
>>>> the Microsoft OS on ISA based PCs, just making the point that OS2
>>>> never achieved sufficient penetration. That's why it ended up *only*
>>>> in the niche areas of which you wax lyrical.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Hardlty a niche, that area was IBMs main business.
>>
>> A niche compared to the general PC market they no longer had *any
>> control* over.
>>
> I think that you under-estimate the value of the mainframe market. Just
> our 3 year maintenance contract to look after Westpacs mainframe
> equipment was worth about $40M.

I don't underestimate *that* market at all. I, like most others, have no
experience nor involvement with it and, likely, very little interest as
well. I do have friends who do, however, including one notable who spent
8 years as a contractor at NAB head office in Melbourne. His speciality
was, and is, Unix on mainframes and minis. He has contracted with many
of the large corporations in his career. I gained a lot of insight into
that segment of the market from him and others. That still misses my
point. IBM wanted a much greater share of the *desktop* computer market,
both home and office. Please don't try to tell me that the desktop
computer market was *small* back in the 80s and 90s. It was *huge* and
expanding at a great rate of knots. It was why they brought out the IBM
PC in the first place but the open architecture was their undoing. IBM
tried to get back into it after they lost out to the IBM clones. They
tried to get that back with the PS/2 and Microchannel architecture - and
failed miserably.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)