On 25/03/2022 13:20, Recliner wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 12:46:31 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 22/03/2022 21:29, Tweed wrote:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 22/03/2022 14:27, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t1ca2f$4uv$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:57:19 on Tue, 22 Mar
>>>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <t1a1jg$bf2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:20:32 o
>>>>>>>>>>> n Mon, 21 Mar 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They might be back-to-back with the public catering areas and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> served  by the  same crew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, with a British crew, that's the most likely situation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Messrooms on the main passenger deck?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Depends on the design. Some ships I have served on yes, others no. In
>>>>>>>>>>>> the "no" cases the crew messrooms are usually above the galley and food
>>>>>>>>>>>> is transferred through a lift so there will be one or two dedicated
>>>>>>>>>>>> crew servers out of a crew of potentially 100 or so.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The ships we are discussing are the Dover-Calais ferries, if that helps
>>>>>>>>>>> narrow down their floor plans. And getting back to before this diversion
>>>>>>>>>>> about exactly where the crew eat, where on the ship are their sleeping
>>>>>>>>>>> quarters?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've just had a quick scan back through the thread and I can't find any
>>>>>>>>>> such restriction of the discussion to specifically the Dover-Calais
>>>>>>>>>> route,
>>>>>>>>>> rather than any P&O car ferry route.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What other routes did the "800" work on? The Dover-Calais is the only
>>>>>>>>> one I've seen the media and government in anguish about.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then you really haven't been paying attention. There's been a great fuss
>>>>>>>> in Norn Ironland because the Larne-Cairnryan route was shut. A ship on
>>>>>>>> the Hull-Rotterdam route pulled up the gangplanks and refused to allow
>>>>>>>> the "security" staff on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Much has been made about paying the staff next to nothing is legal because
>>>>>>> of the laws that cover foreign registered ship. P&O have, it appears,
>>>>>>> been cornered into their current action because others, notably Irish
>>>>>>> Ferries, got there first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there anything to stop UK government from passing a law preventing a
>>>>>>> foreign registered regular ferry service (and we can argue what constitutes
>>>>>>> a regular ferry service) from using a UK port unless the UK minimum wage is
>>>>>>> paid? Or if they couldn’t be prevented from using the port could they be
>>>>>>> prevented from discharging traffic by the denial of customs and immigration
>>>>>>> services?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We’ve prevented the race to the bottom by the introduction of the minimum
>>>>>>> wage, but ferries seem to have got around this by exploiting international
>>>>>>> maritime law.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How could international ferries be treated any differently to the many
>>>>>> other foreign-flagged, foreign-owned merchant marine vessels sailing on
>>>>>> international routes that visit the UK? We could, probably, have control
>>>>>> over ferries sailing between UK ports, but not those sailing to non-UK
>>>>>> ports.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bilateral agreement between the governments of the ferry ports? A ferry by
>>>>> definition regularly trips between the two end points. Even if there is no
>>>>> bilateral agreement it doesn’t seem to be beyond the wit of legal drafting
>>>>> to define a ferry. Or take the pirate radio route and ban the sale of ferry
>>>>> tickets in the UK for any ferry crewed under the minimum wage.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "By definition a ferry regularly trips between the two end ponts". Really??
>>>>
>>>> Currently the Northlink ferry between Shetland and Aberdeen calls on
>>>> some days via Orkney.
>>>> I used to work on a ferry going Portsmouth / St Helier / St Peterport /
>>>> Cherbourg and back to Portsmouth.
>>>>
>>>> I could quote others. It is correct that all the P&O routes affected by
>>>> the current dispute are single end to end routes, but even P&O used to
>>>> operate a tri-point route.
>>>>
>>>> Your definition is incorrect!
>>>>
>>>
>>> It may be incorrect. I could extend the definition to include regularly
>>> operating between 3 or 4 points. I’m very sure that a legal drafter could
>>> come up with a suitable definition.
>>>
>>> The point is that international law that is really intended for go anywhere
>>> shipping is being abused for a fixed service. Where the Burger King worker
>>> at Dover ferry terminal is on minimum wage but the cook on the ferry is
>>> earning significantly less there is something wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Is that very different to a cruise ship doing a regular weekly itinerary
>> serving the same ports, with the staff paid less than for similar roles on
>> land? Other than that tickets are only available for round trips, rather
>> than port-to-port.
>
> And what about ocean liners like the QM2, which ply between New York and Southampton?

What other Ocean Liners are there and does she still do that?

--
Graeme Wall
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