On 25/03/2022 00:08, Recliner wrote:
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 22/03/2022 21:48, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 22/03/2022 14:27, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <t1ca2f$4uv$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:57:19 on Tue, 22 Mar
>>>>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <t1a1jg$bf2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:20:32 o
>>>>>>>>>>>> n Mon, 21 Mar 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do car ferries have crew sleeping quarters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For those reports to be true - yes. And many of the crew who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaining about being fired seem to be employed to feed the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the crew. Sorry if that's a bit recursive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is a bit damning, and totally inaccurate!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's the impression those crew gave.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whilst crew do get fed on board, there are few, if any, hotel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc staff who are dedicated to crew meals etc. The majority
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> board to service / feed the passengers / lorry drivers etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would the crew take their meals in the public restaurants?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much doubt it. Ships have separate crew messrooms.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And hence separate catering crew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They might be back-to-back with the public catering areas and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> served  by the  same crew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, with a British crew, that's the most likely situation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Messrooms on the main passenger deck?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Depends on the design. Some ships I have served on yes, others no. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "no" cases the crew messrooms are usually above the galley and food
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is transferred through a lift so there will be one or two dedicated
>>>>>>>>>>>>> crew servers out of a crew of potentially 100 or so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The ships we are discussing are the Dover-Calais ferries, if that helps
>>>>>>>>>>>> narrow down their floor plans. And getting back to before this diversion
>>>>>>>>>>>> about exactly where the crew eat, where on the ship are their sleeping
>>>>>>>>>>>> quarters?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've just had a quick scan back through the thread and I can't find any
>>>>>>>>>>> such restriction of the discussion to specifically the Dover-Calais
>>>>>>>>>>> route,
>>>>>>>>>>> rather than any P&O car ferry route.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What other routes did the "800" work on? The Dover-Calais is the only
>>>>>>>>>> one I've seen the media and government in anguish about.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then you really haven't been paying attention. There's been a great fuss
>>>>>>>>> in Norn Ironland because the Larne-Cairnryan route was shut. A ship on
>>>>>>>>> the Hull-Rotterdam route pulled up the gangplanks and refused to allow
>>>>>>>>> the "security" staff on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Much has been made about paying the staff next to nothing is legal because
>>>>>>>> of the laws that cover foreign registered ship. P&O have, it appears,
>>>>>>>> been cornered into their current action because others, notably Irish
>>>>>>>> Ferries, got there first.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there anything to stop UK government from passing a law preventing a
>>>>>>>> foreign registered regular ferry service (and we can argue what constitutes
>>>>>>>> a regular ferry service) from using a UK port unless the UK minimum wage is
>>>>>>>> paid? Or if they couldn’t be prevented from using the port could they be
>>>>>>>> prevented from discharging traffic by the denial of customs and immigration
>>>>>>>> services?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We’ve prevented the race to the bottom by the introduction of the minimum
>>>>>>>> wage, but ferries seem to have got around this by exploiting international
>>>>>>>> maritime law.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How could international ferries be treated any differently to the many
>>>>>>> other foreign-flagged, foreign-owned merchant marine vessels sailing on
>>>>>>> international routes that visit the UK? We could, probably, have control
>>>>>>> over ferries sailing between UK ports, but not those sailing to non-UK
>>>>>>> ports.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bilateral agreement between the governments of the ferry ports? A ferry by
>>>>>> definition regularly trips between the two end points. Even if there is no
>>>>>> bilateral agreement it doesn’t seem to be beyond the wit of legal drafting
>>>>>> to define a ferry. Or take the pirate radio route and ban the sale of ferry
>>>>>> tickets in the UK for any ferry crewed under the minimum wage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Presumably you'd ban the sale of all cruise line tickets in the UK on the
>>>>> same basis?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I would not be surprised to find out that there are exceptions for
>>>> service staff on cruise liners. Their base pay is lousy, and all parties
>>>> know that. yet they can reap a windfall in tips.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's not really a windfall — it's just making up for their very low pay.
>>> There's usually a suggested daily rate for tips which passengers put in a
>>> special envelope at the end of the cruise. They can, of course, pay a
>>> higher or lower amount, at their discretion.
>>>
>>> But the cruise ships I go on (Silversea and Noble Caledonia) include all
>>> tips in the fare.
>>
>> In that case, in what sense are they tips? They’re can’t reflect the
>> quality of service offered by any particular crew member, and they aren’t,
>> presumably, voluntary on the passenger’s part, are they?
>>
>
> I agree, they're not really tips, but the companies still use the term as
> tips had long been standard on such ships. I think that there may also be a
> mechanism for holding back tips from crew members who get poor passenger
> ratings. I know that the passenger ratings are very important for the crew,
> and can affect contract renewal.
>
Sure. Like many places that require face-to-face interaction.