On Mar 18, 2022 at 11:26:14 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
<op.1i8n50gnmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:

> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 20:20:23 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mar 12, 2022 at 3:13:56 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>> <op.1iwxdi02mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>
>>> On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 00:27:13 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mar 4, 2022 at 2:56:55 PM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>> <op.1ii0k5qsmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 03:00:38 -0000, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2022 at 3:41:32 PM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>>>> <op.1ig7zixvmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Makes it easier:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> * Go to such and such address
>>>>>>>>>>>> * Go two doors up
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Both of those fit with how we do things normally. Which is better depends on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the circumstances.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> How is this showing the mac way is better?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Given how Windows also uses absolute and relative paths, what makes you think
>>>>>>>>>> it is different?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The extra garbage on the beginning of yours. The simplest example: a file in
>>>>>>>>> the root directory if the main drive. c:\file.txt And on a mac?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why would you save something on the root?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For quickness, but that's irrelevant, I showed you the shortest example to
>>>>>>> make a point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It still makes no sense to save to root. But it is even easier on macOS:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> \file.txt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No need for silly drive letters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which drive is that the root of?
>>>>
>>>> The boot drive.
>>>
>>> Quicker on Windows for any other drive. E:\videos\beach babes.mp4
>>
>> Your boot drive is your E: drive?
>
> No, the E: drive is the large rust spinner for videos and TV.

But above you spoke of it as the boot drive.

>> And how is that faster than ~/videos/beach babes.mp4
>
> What's a tilde again? Is that your user folder?

Yes, though I admit it is apparently uncommon enough knowledge someone
trolling me years ago said it was "the hard drive only". (Warning: While that
is a fact I suspect this will trigger someone who trolls me).

> Well I don't want them in there. My user folder is on the boot drive and
> that's too small for terabytes of TV.

I also use an external drive. It is a 3 TB drive I have creatively named
"Other 3". I literally have never typed the path to it. No need. I have,
perhaps, dragged a file to the command line to get the path. Maybe. Not even
sure if I have done that with any file on that drive.

>>>> I did goof, though. It should be: /file.txt
>>>
>>> Why does Mac and Linux use the wrong slash?
>>
>> What makes you think it is wrong, other than your rules?
>>
>>> The forward slash is for an option. dir/s includes subdirectories for example.
>>
>> That is how it works on Windows. Not elsewhere.
>
> What do use for an option in a command?

Something like:

ls -a

For ls (list) with the option of "all". Lots of other options. Here is the man
(manual) page for it -- maybe even up to date, but maybe not. Either way you
get the idea:

https://ss64.com/osx/ls.html

> What happens if you want to write a date in a filename?

Here is how I do that:

https://youtu.be/jnssFYSpPUk

>>>> As I said, I almost never have to type such stuff. No real need for general
>>>> use.
>>>
>>> I keep forgetting how fluffy macs are, you hate using the keyboard.
>>
>> When do you have to type it?
>
> Plenty times. I prefer having both options.

I have options... but there is rarely a time I have to.

>> And if you are going to type it why worry about
>> having to open two folders?
>
> What?

If I am in my terminal I just drag the file. Why type when it will do it for
me?

https://youtu.be/XT061T6VZ2I

>>>>>> You *might* have made a point had you selected some other drive. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Save it in your User folder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's the obsession with a user folder?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What makes you see "obsession" in understanding that user files are in the
>>>>>> user folder?
>>>>>
>>>>> I own the computer, all the files are mine.
>>>>
>>>> True, but it makes sense to have an organization where your user files are in
>>>> a user folder...
>>>
>>> Bullshit. I organise my files where I want them.
>>
>> As do I... I just *want* my organization to work well for me
>
> Chances are the way you organise things isn't the same way the OS programmers
> do.

Nor does it need to be.

>> and to allow my system to be multiuser and less prone to malware.
>
> Malware doesn't find a problem with files in user folders.

Weak permission structures are a security risk.
>
>>> And on different drives.
>>
>> I use different drives.
>>
>>> And where do you draw the line at a user file?
>>
>> Not sure what you mean by this.
>
> What files do you refer to as user files?

Generally the ones in my user folder (as well as the external drive).

>>> What about recordings form my security cameras?
>>
>> I tend to save those in Documents but Movies would also make sense.
>
> They're not either.

What are they?

>
>>> What about settings I saved in a program?
>>
>> ~/Library/Preferences. Of course.
>
> Why would that be of course?

Because preferences going into the Preferences folder makes sense.

> What happened to the good old days when preferences were in the program's
> folder?

Since early macOS they have been in the Preferences folder. That way if you
delete the app and re-install your preferences remain.

> Even my computer game has some stuff in my user folder and some stuff in it's
> own folder.
>
>> One thing I miss about Classic Mac was being able to save those files (plist
>> files in macOS terms) and have different sets of settings. Worked in pretty
>> much any app on Classic Mac. Does not work on modern macOS.
>
> Not sure what you're talking about.

You used to be able to use the Preferences file as a launcher... and it would
ignore the system Preferences and use the one you opened it with. Here, a
video I made for nospam to show him:

https://youtu.be/IouS4iDvsOQ

I was one of three users on the planet that knew of that feature and made use
of it, but I do still miss it. :)

>
>>>> doing this is part of security. It is part of the reason
>>>> macOS tends to have less malware.
>>>
>>> Nothing to do with security whatsoever.
>>
>> Sure it does. It is a key reason for it.
>>
>>> And anyway Windows also defaults to a user folder, I just ignore it.
>>
>> You create your own rules. Sure. And it is your system -- enjoy. Just do not
>> expect others to follow your rules.
>
> I don't expect anyone to organise anything the same way, which is why having
> the OS try to push you into one way is ridiculous.

OK, as long as you do not try to push your method onto me.

>
>>>>>>> I save things in folder in the root like c:\pictures, c:\videos.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But when do you refer to it like that? I generally just say a file in the
>>>>>>>> Documents folder or whatever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think even a mac would respond to "a file in the documents folder".
>>>>>>> Maybe an Alexa.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have no issue saving files in the Documents folder.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why use the setup the OS writer chose? I'll decide what array to organise my
>>>>> folders in, depending if I'm a photographer, music fan, etc.
>>>>
>>>> You can also save things to the Pictures or Music folders... which are
>>>> defaults, or any other folder you want.
>>>
>>> Are those folders not inside your user folder?
>>
>> Yes.
>
> My videos are on a different drive to my pictures.

I have videos on my external drive. I could make it look like the folder was
in my User folder, but not worth it.

>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But, really, for general use when do you use either much?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Every day, many times.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Example?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When installing a program and seeing where it's going. When referring to a
>>>>>>>>> file in a program. When saving a file.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When I install a program I put it either in the Applications folder or the
>>>>>>>> desktop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ROPL! You install programs to the desktop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes. I download them and fiddle with them there. Then I decide to keep or
>>>>>> toss. Having a quick temporary storage is a key use of the desktop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No need to give more of a path.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kinda helps to give each application it's own folder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On macOS each app is almost always just one icon. It is, technically, a
>>>>>> folder, but it is easy to move around. More recent versions of macOS do offer
>>>>>> more benefits for putting apps in the Applications folder.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you think you're looking at a file but it's a folder, how confusing.
>>>>
>>>> You are looking at an application icon. And it works fine.
>>>
>>> I prefer to know what I'm looking at.
>>
>> As opposed to?
>
> What's sneaking up behind me.

Is something?

>
>>>>> What happens if you double click one?
>>>>
>>>> If you double click on an application icon the application opens. Of course.
>>>> What else would you expect?
>>>
>>> But you said it's actually a folder. Wouldn't a folder open when you double
>>> click it?
>>
>> Why would you want to open a folder when you launch an app? You can dig into
>> it if you want but as the norm? What is the value? Why make it so you have to
>> dig to find the EXE, and figure out which one, just to launch an app? Seems to
>> get around that weakness you would need to create some extra menu and maybe
>> even have to place it on the taskbar to deal with this challenge. Oh. Windows
>> does that.
>
> The application is not one file, it's a collection of files, inside a folder.
> So when I double click that folder, I expect it to open, not launch something
> inside it.
>
>>>>>>>> When I look at a file in an app I
>>>>>>>> either navigate to it in the Open dialog (visual) or use the Open Recent
>>>>>>>> options. And with Open Recent most apps keep track even if I have moved and
>>>>>>>> renamed the file. Windows does not generally do that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I like to know what drive it's on. So what do you do if two drives are named
>>>>>>> the same?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If there are multiple ones it shows the folder it is in.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's say I plug in two USB sticks and they're both called "USB Stick". They
>>>>> both contain the same files exactly, I back them up from one to the other, or
>>>>> I'm putting the same files on several to give photos to some family and
>>>>> friends. On a PC, one is called F: and the other G:. ON a mac they're both
>>>>> called USB Drive. How do you differentiate between the two? How does the OS?
>>>>
>>>> The OS shows "USB Stick" and "USB Stick 1" (I think). The OS has built in IDs
>>>> in he background to know what disk is what (and can use the "user" names).
>>>
>>> Windows is better. They can all be called USB Stick without a number.
>>> Differentiation when required is done by the letter, which the user can see.
>>
>> I was wrong. Nospam is correct they would just show their names. No added
>> numbers. But, really, why name them the same?
>
> Say I have 20 USB sticks to give to a class. I put the same things on them all
> at once. I plug them all in at once. Why make up 20 names?
>
>>>>>> Say you have an MS Word (or whatever) file open on Windows. You opened it from
>>>>>> Recent Files and it is buried deep. How do you find where it is? How do you
>>>>>> move it? How do you rename it?
>>>>>
>>>>> You have it open, you save it, it will tell you where it's going.
>>>>
>>>> And if you want to move or rename it?
>>>
>>> Never heard of anyone wanting to rename an open file.
>>
>> Not on systems where they cannot do so! But what if there is a typo? What if
>> you decide it is in the wrong place? On Windows you have to do a little dance
>> of closing it, renaming or moving, the re-opening it. And then the Recent
>> files info often is broken.
>
> I rename it when it isn't open.

Right. You do not have the option to do so when it is open.

> I'd see the typo when I was about to open it.

You might. But what if you want to rename it later. Or if it was already open
in the app when you started your computer?

>>> The closest I've ever done is open a file then want to make a similar one (say
>>> for another client), so I just save as a new name.
>>
>> Ah, File >Duplicate... where the Duplicate is already open and, guess what,
>> you can then rename it without closing it.
>>
>> Oh. On Windows you have to do File >Save As, then rename, then open. And to
>> open it you have to navigate to wherever you opened it. Back to your idea of
>> opening folders needlessly being a waste of time.
>
> No. I double click "Smith accounts" and it opens in the app. Then I save as
> "Jones accounts". Very simple.

Nobody is saying that would not work, but it is not relevant to the idea of
duplicating a file that is open and of which you are looking at its window.

>
>>>> Or if you have file A.doc open and you
>>>> want to get to B.doc which you know is in the same folder, buried several
>>>> folders deep?
>>>>
>>>> To be more specific: You have ~/Companies/Company A/Client A/Project
>>>> A/2021/A.docx open. How do you get to ~/Companies/Company A/Client A/Project
>>>> A/2021/B.docx quickly?
>>>
>>> If I right click a recent file, I can choose "open location". Now I have the
>>> ~/Companies/Company A/Client A/Project A/2021 folder open.
>>
>> Another example where you need to dig through menus. Got it.
>
> No menus to dig through. Two clicks.

Two clicks in a menu. Not much digging, to be sure, but some.

>> And if you want to open a folder in the path? Open that folder and go up.
>
> What?

This file is open: ~/Companies/Company A/Client A/Project A/2021/seal
bashing.docx

You want to get to the Company A folder?

>
>> Oy.
>
> Vey.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.