On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 15:22:18 -0000, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 17:06:54 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 16:11:57 -0000, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 14:52:58 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 13:49:23 -0000, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 13:03:01 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 12:38:48 -0000, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail..com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On Friday, 18 March 2022 at 12:01:05 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 11:18:01 -0000, David Brooks <B...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Yes - switched to geographic features long ago!
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > OS X 10 beta: Kodiak - 13 September 2000
>> >> >> >> > OS X 10.0: Cheetah - 24 March 2001
>> >> >> >> > OS X 10.1: Puma - 25 September 2001
>> >> >> >> > OS X 10.2: Jaguar - 24 August 2002
>> >> >> >> > OS X 10.3 Panther (Pinot) - 24 October 2003
>> >> >> >> > OS X 10.4 Tiger (Merlot) - 29 April 2005
>> >> >> >> > [OS X 10.4.4 Tiger (Chardonnay)]
>> >> >> >> > OS X 10.5 Leopard (Chablis) - 26 October 2007
>> >> >> >> > OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - 28 August 2009
>> >> >> >> > OS X 10.7 Lion (Barolo) - 20 July 2011
>> >> >> >> > OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion (Zinfandel) - 25 July 2012
>> >> >> >> > OS X 10.9 Mavericks (Cabernet) - 22 October 2013
>> >> >> >> > OS X 10.10: Yosemite (Syrah) - 16 October 2014
>> >> >> >> > OS X 10.11: El Capitan (Gala) - 30 September 2015
>> >> >> >> > macOS 10.12: Sierra (Fuji) - 20 September 2016
>> >> >> >> > macOS 10.13: High Sierra (Lobo) - 25 September 2017
>> >> >> >> > macOS 10.14: Mojave (Liberty) - 24 September 2018
>> >> >> >> > macOS 10.15: Catalina (Jazz) - 7 October 2019
>> >> >> >> > macOS 11: Big Sur - 12 November 2020
>> >> >> >> > macOS 12: Monterey - 25 October 2021
>> >> >> >> Oh that really is childish, look how they started going up in whole numbers. 19 years of point something, then suddenly two whole numbers in 2 years. It's a competition between them and Microsoft to have a higher number.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Nothing to do with MS and whole numbers. It is how updates work.
>> >> >> > If it's a minor u[pdate or bug fix you don;t need a whole number change.
>> >> >> > Mac OS 1 started in 1984.
>> >> >> > In those days updates were'nt as regualar as there was little point in sending out new discs every few days.
>> >> >> > It wasn;t until easy downloads for most were availbe that it was worth doing such small regular increments.
>> >> >> > Mac OS X or 10. was a totally new system based on uniX
>> >> >> Incorrect. My Windows 11 is 10.0.22000.556 if you ask it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I also don't believe Apple released only minor changes for 19 years, then suddenly came up with two major changes in 2 years.
>> >> >
>> >> > I never said minor changes or updates, I said increments.
>> >> You said "If it's a minor u[pdate or bug fix you don;t need a whole number change."
>> >
>> > Correct regarding intergers
>> > Recently my firefox went from 97.0.1 to 97.0.2 which just fixed a few bugs.
>> Yeah, so Firefox have made 96 significant changes, I don't think so.
>
> No one said it has.

But the first number is for a major change - you said so yourself: "Nothing to do with MS and whole numbers. It is how updates work. If it's a minor update or bug fix you don't need a whole number change."

> What about windows 5, 6 and 9 ?

Marketing bullshit, they decided years or names would be better. No different to the the animal bullshit from Apple. Is a tiger better than a leopard? Who knows? Only David Attenborough.

>> > whereas OS9 to OS X was major change like going from DOS to Window, but even greater
>> > as it was a complete system re-write not just a fancy GUI.
>> And somehow 11 and 12 appeared in 2 years, after 19 years of no major changes?
>
> what do you mean by major change? cars haven't changed much since in the last 100 years have they ?
> They still have a wheel in each corner and another used as steering.

Apple decided the last two were significant, yet the 19 years of work before that achieved nothing significant.

>> >> > Their effect was generall indicated by the number just like anything else that uses numbers.
>> >> >
>> >> > What is windows 10 got to do with Mac OS X (10), Mac OS X came out long before windows 10.
>> >> It shows MS hasn't actually used a whole version number, they're just keeping up with Apple on the box.
>> >
>> > What box ,
>> The cardboard box, I was meaning the number people see when they buy it.
>
> Not sure when the last 'box' for apple OS , last one I have is snow leopard, about 10 years ago.
>
> Are windows still shipping their OS's in boxes with DVDs inside.

It's a figure of speech you silly old fart.

>> >> > Hwo comes windows was such an erratci number pattern W3.0, 3.1 , 3.5 NT4 Wxp, W2000 W millenium
>> >> > W2003 then windows vista then windows 7,8, what happens to 9 then windows 10 trying to keep up with Mac OS 10
>> >> The sales team couldn't make up their mind whether words, years, or version numbers sell best.
>> >
>> > So what happened to windows 9, Windows went from 7 to 8 then 8.1 then 10 and now 11 shortly to be windows 365 next
>> > which will be even more confusing.
>> If you say 9 in English, it sounds like "no" to a German. They didn't want a Windows no.
>
> People didn't think that about Mac OS 9

Germans aren't stupid enough to use an Apple Os.

>> >> > If your windows 11 reports it'self as being windows 10.0.22000.556 , that's not Apples problem.
>> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I've used all since Tiger! :-)
>> >> >> >> Why did you take that long to upgrade to 10?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Think my first usable was Puma although didn't start liking it until Jaguar,
>> >> >> They all look the same to me.
>> >> >
>> >> > No suprise there , but windows from XP onwards has always loooked like a crappy verion of Macs OS's to me.
>> >> > even since windows 3.1
>> >> > Word came out first on the Mac with WYSISYG , so MS tried to copy Mac interface, icons and usability but mostly failed.
>> >> It vastly improved it. We had a taskbar long before you.
>> >
>> > A taskbar is quite minor though and while you may have had a taskbar, Mac OS you could just go to the finder icon top right click and go down to any applicationt hat was currently open this came out in the late 1980s or maybe ealier .
>> The taskbar is the best thing since sliced toast. You can always see what apps are running and easily switch between them.
>
> You could do that with a Mac long before from the finder icon, you could even see how much memory they were using,
> task bar can;t do that. Here's system 6 from 1988.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_6

Where does that say anything about which apps are running?

P.S. ROTFPMSL!
"Initial releases of System 6 are unstable; many third-party developers did not receive advance copies, resulting in widespread compatibility issues.[2] The contemporary versions of many common programs such as Microsoft Excel, Microsoft Works and 4th Dimension were not fully compatible with System 6.[2] There were also software bugs in the Color Manager, Script Manager, and Sound Manager extension files. Apple announced that 66 bugs were fixed with version 6.0.1 update, in September 1988.[16][17] However, a major bug involving the text-spacing of screen fonts was found, and was fixed in version 6.0.2.[17] Some customers waited longer until moving to System 6 because of its poor reputation."

>> Then Apple copied it and made a dock where you could hardly tell the difference between a running program and an alias.
>>
>> Then Windows copied that and had pinned icons on the taskbar that look the same as running programs, which I always delete. I start programs from the start menu, I select between running ones on the taskbar, and I never used the desktop.
>> >> >> > but hated the way they pronounced the word.
>> >> >> Americayans cayant pronounce anything riot. Not one single-syllable word in their pronounciation.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yep, and spelling.
>> >> Aloominum. I thought that was just pronounciation, but they spell it wrong too!
>> >
>> > and many other words they(well not all perhaps) can't even understand the differnce bewteen centre and center.
>> Tourism and terrorism sound the same.
>>
>> Mirror and Myrrh.
>>
>> And what about stoopid stoodents that cayant do math?
>> >> >> > I'm staying at big sur until I can think of a good reason to go to Monterey at home
>> >> >> No point in keeping old version of anything.
>> >> >
>> >> > I do I'm still using Mac OS9 to play on game I like from the late 90s.
>> >> > On a computer I bought in 1999, whcih is still working fine.
>> >> Old games suck.
>> >
>> > I like star craft, even doom was OK on a PC but teh targeting was crap just fire anywhere and you hit the target quite borrowing when you found out.
>> > Now the game marothon on the Mac you had to actually aim at the thing to kill it.
>> We played interdepartmental Quake deathmatches at my first job. Which of course were only at lunchtime and never accidentally carried on afterwards :-)
>
> Of course not, I loked quake too played on-line a few times even using a 28k modem.

I built a 486 out of scrap parts to play that.

>> And of course I would never use departmental money to buy a fast graphics card to give me an advantage.... I then managed to get a £1800 computer including Bang and Olufsen speakers, after asking my boss if I could. He thought I said £800. He said "oh well it's done now". I like people like that.
>
> yeah no one here was like thet.
> One lecturere insisted that the HD be replaced with another floppy because he was worried about viruses
> they even charged us extar for having it.
>
>> >> I did try one, but I couldn't get the fucking thing to work on any version of windows, I think it didn't like the modern hardware.
>> >
>> > That's true of most sytems
>> > My all time favourite game was carmeggedon.
>> I loved that - did you get the splat pack for more blood?
>
> Yes, let say I aquired it. Once we had 6 players set up in a house everyone bought there maces over.
> Mostly the G3 CRTs my mac was a G3 300 tower, amazing what you could do with 300MHz and 6MB of video ram.

I ran a coax ethernet cable (and an audio cable) along the back garden wall of several houses and made a network for the whole street. Multiplayer games, yelling at each other through microphones, waking people up in the middle of the night, and abusing the free internet access from the uni I was studying at.

>> Remember the grannies saying "I was in the war!!"?
>
> Sheep and penguins were fun, elephants were quite difficult.

Elephant! Abandon ship!.... er car.

>> > But Apple when they went from the G3 to G4 they had a velocity engine or something which
>> > made the car blow up if you used a weapon while driving , which made the game pretty pointless .
>> The computer hardware made the car in the game explode? WTF?
>
> Yes when you hit the fire motar but only the motar fire nothing else tripped it.
> your car would just explode as if you'd been hit by the mortar. All other weapons worked ok.
> I have carmeggdon on my iPhone noew but it;s difficult to control without a keyboard.
>
>> >> >> > at work the highest I can go is High Sierra.
>> >> >> Why can you not go higher at work?
>> >> >
>> >> > This Mid 2011 iMac is just too old to install the later software, but is quite amazing how many PC users come in and say you're lucky you've got such a nice macine and they have a 1-3 year-ld PC in their hands.
>> >> > They don't believe me when I tell them it's over 10 years old, it;s never crashed , I've never had ro re-install the OS .
>> >> I have the latest Windows on a 13 year old PC. But Apple doesn't know what compatibility means. I remember when USB came out, they immediately stopped serial ports, so we had to change the printer too!
>> >
>> > But you could start up from a CD drive something you couldn't do from the serial port
>> But they could have left them on. PCs kept the parallel and serial ports for ages after USB came along. Did Macs ever have parallel?
>
> No they seemed to go to SCSI which was much better but of course more expensive, yuo could get IEEE adapters .

That SCSI was ridiculous, there must have been about 8 different connectors.

>> > And after a few years PC followed, I have 92 iMac like PCs in my lab here at work all running W10 they don;t even have a CD/DVD drive.
>> > At least my iMac has a CD/DVD drive.
>> I plug one in when I need it. They're so rarely used. I installed Windows 11 from a USB stick.
>
> I'd do the same but I've heard windows 11 doesn;t support dual boots up, so we couldnt; use it here as we need Linux and windows for teaching.
> We have about 3000 PCs on this site and most are dual boot.

It can't stop you dual booting, that's up to the BIOS.

>> >> > The only thing I've done is upgrade the memeory from 8GB to 24GB, which took me a 5mins to do.
>> >> > Most of that time was trying to get the DIMMS out of the plastic they came in!
>> >> If it will take 24GB, it must be able to take the latest OS. The computer I mentioned above is only 8GB (motherboard maxed out).
>> >
>> > It's more about the graphics card and processor than memory. Apple do restrict things if they don't think the user experience
>> > will be good if you put the latest OS on a computer that is just too old to cope.
>> You don't need a graphics card for an OS!
>
> The OS needs to support the graphics card.

The OS should run on a basic card or inbuilt graphics.

> you could have dual monitors on a Mac in the late 80s.
>
>> >> Did you have to buy overpriced Apple memory, or does it take normal stuff?
>> >
>> > No normal stuff, usually from crucial.com.
>> > In ~1992 I went on the Apple service course near hearthow airport at the time.
>> > Part of the test was to upgrade the ram in a quadra 700. I went to the 'teacher' and said can I have
>> > four 1MB simms, he said fill out the form, I did and put a local supplier down at £30 per simm,
>> > he said you should really get them from us at £100 per simm as we guarentee them.
>> > I said we get them and if they don't work send them back and they replace them.
>> > Never had a problem upgrading any Mac. They asked where I worked , then they said they understood.
>> I did the same with Dells.
>> > You get this with most high end companies, you want your Rolex watch battery changed taken it to their local dealer.
>> > You want your gucci handband repaired, take it to Gucci.
>> > Nothing stopping you from doing it yourself if you know what you're doing. Similar with cars.
>> My neighbour has an £80 Calvin Klein watch. I saw him take it off to wash the dishes and he admitted it wasn't waterproof! For that price! When he needed a new battery, he paid £40, half the value of the watch! Fucking idiot, he's a tradesman, he has all sorts of tools. He even repaired the gearbox in a saw. But couldn't change a battery?!
>>
>> Is it true you can't replace the battery in an Iphone without monumentally expensive tools?
>
> I think so haven;t tried my iphone 7 is still OK . Don;t think the tools are that expensive, or that specialised.
> I've used a credit card to open up a Mac display.

Apparently Apple "bricked" Iphones if you tried that sort of "naughty" stuff. They actually destroyed your own property.

>> > With our lab PCs we were told not to change the hard discs otherwise we'd void the warrenty.
>> > So because they are so slow takes 10mins for them to start after installing latest updates,
>> > we replaced them with SSDs. If one goes wrong and we've had a few go wrong we put the HDs back,
>> > and they don't even know.
>> My first PC said it mustn't be opened or the warranty is void. It's bullshit. I'd added a graphics card and they still came out and changed something under warranty. The guy said as long as he didn't see any physical damage by my stupidity it's fine. They just want to put off morons.
>
> yeah can;t blame them when yo see what some people are like.

I worked with a professor who could fuck up any computer by simply touching the mouse. Somehow she'd click 50 things and drag stuff everywhere, a system error would result in seconds. Yet she could speak 17 languages fluently.