On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 14:16:51 +0100, whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, 14 April 2022 at 12:24:33 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:59:14 +0100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Wednesday, 13 April 2022 at 05:48:32 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 16:14:06 +0100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Tuesday, 12 April 2022 at 15:38:35 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 14:53:52 +0100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On Monday, 11 April 2022 at 13:39:50 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 13:11:22 +0100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > On Saturday, 9 April 2022 at 00:56:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 14:38:55 +0100, whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 14:05:20 UTC+1, Richard Tobin wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> In article <f605f9df-4ac4-4032...@googlegroups.com>,
>> >> >> >> >> >> whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> I frequently log in to co-workers' Macs
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> using ssh. They're not set up to run the graphical interface for
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> multiple users on multiple screens (though I wouldn't be surprised if
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> it can be done), but nor are many other multi-user systems.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >Yes I have used Timbuktu software a few times. A friend used to to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >remotly administer 6 Mac minis in thailand. But mainframes which are
>> >> >> >> >> >> >true multi-user systems where 100s can log on and run programs
>> >> >> >> >> >> >because that is what it was designed to do.
>> >> >> >> >> >> Very few multi-user systems are mainframes.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > Some are refered to as minis, but not many if any are micros.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> For example, the computer
>> >> >> >> >> >> servers we use here are just rack-mounted Linux boxes.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > Why do you call them servers why not just hard disc arrays.
>> >> >> >> >> Because they have a processor.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > PCs, Macs, all have drives and processors and memory
>> >> >> >> But a disk array does not, or only a very rudimentary one. All it can do is store.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > That's all any disc can do, it can;t make tea it's a disc.
>> >> >> So why do you want to call a server a disk?
>> >> >
>> >> > I don't. I can call the discs in my computer anything I want
>> >> IN your computer. Above you wanted to call a whole server a disk.
>> >
>> > Where did I say that.?
>> Up there, still quoted: "Why do you call them servers why not just hard disc arrays."
>
> So you're saying theres no difernce beween a server and a set of discs .
> When I print the file is sent to a print server, then I can go to almost any networked printer in the university
> to collect my printout.
>
> Well here we have print servers and file servers, we have servers for particular groups too.
> One speciality server is mostly using GPUs .

It's you, not me, that's calling a server a disk.

>> >> > I can call it dave in fact one of my discs is called dave.
>> >> After the Sky channel?
>> >
>> > It's owned by the BBC not Sky.
>> The BBC doesn't own anything, it's a theiving organisation taking your license fee to do as they wish, even if you don't watch their channels.
>
> Dave is on freeview

But the license fee....

>> >> > I can't rename any of the network discs , even though I can store stuff on them.
>> >> Ah, you're a minion.
>> >
>> > Pretty much everyone else who uses them are minions too.
>> I set up my own.
>
> What do you mean by your own, in my job the uni pays for them I dont; have to pay for them.
> They pay for the imac & the printers and everything else why would I want to make my own ?

Don't be so OCD, I mean paid for by them, but bought and operated by you.

>> >> >> >> You do what a networked RAID box is?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > And how does that make any differnce to what it does.
>> >> >> Because you refused to call "the computer servers we use here are just rack-mounted Linux boxes" servers, you said they were disks.
>> >> >
>> >> > Because that's what they are to the user(s) . I don't know exactly what they are or what type.
>> >> > They are most likely rack mounted but they could be running under windows.
>> >> > It's all done by IT services.
>> >> Bad idea. Make your own servers.
>> >
>> > What out of double sided tape.
>> > What idiot would make their own servers.
>> > I wouldn't make my own shoes for teh same reason.
>> When I said make, obviously I meant you buy the parts from Scan etc.
>
> Why ?
> I doun;t buy the chairs or the tables or anything else, so why should I buy 'servers'

What exactly do you do? You seem unwilling to take anything into your own hands.

> and what is a server anyway I thought you claimed it just linux rack mounted discs.

No, it was you that told somebody to call a server a disk.

> Surely if you were going to buy such a thing it'd be linux rack mounted discs rather than servers.

Depends what I wanted to use it for. My server stored files for professors, ran the interdepartmental Quake deathmatch, and was an FTP server for several thousand illegal pirate films.

>> >> > They could be SSDs although I doubt it. But then again SSDs are drives not discs discs are sort of circular
>> >> > like an old record, but most SSDs seem to be oblong or square, so why call them disks.
>> >> Because they do the same thing. Actually officially hey are "drives" - not sure what drive refers to as drive means either to operate a motor vehicle or to push a thing into another thing, like with a drill.
>> >
>> > Yep which is why it's good to name something correctly, or descriptive to it's use.
>> So what would you name an SSD?
>
> Whatever I waned. SS Dave might be a good name.

FFS! Stop being so precise. I obviously meant what would you call SSDs in general. Disk? Drive? What?

>> >> > I heard at the weekend from a tech cast that honey can be used as a memristor.
>> >> > Sweet!
>> >> If it's sweet, that means you ate it, which destroys the data integrity.
>> >
>> > Sweet hasn't the same meaning as eat.
>> > You seem to be getting words and meanings confused again.
>> The only meaning of sweet I use is for tasty food.
>
> well there sweet FA.

Maybe because it tastes nice to not have to do anything?

> Could be the name for a desert
> There are sweet spot sensors,
>
> not sure if sweet and tasty mean the same thing.

Just means perfect.

>> >> So at what density can this store data? And does it matter which species of bee is used?
>> >
>> > No idea they didn;t go into those details.
>> > It;s all here if yuor interested enough to see the details.
>> > I assume you'll be colelcting honey to make your own chips soon.
>> > https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6463/ac585b
>> Uh....
>>
>> "We apologize for the inconvenience...
>> ...but your activity and behavior on this site made us think that you are a bot."
>
> Ah they have sussed you.
> I didn't get that as they must know I'm a real person.

Or you're connecting from a uni IP.

>> So I filled in the squares containing bicycles then only got the intro paragraph then this:
>>
>> "The computer you are using is not registered by an institution with a subscription to this article. Please choose one of the options below.
>>
>> IOPscience login
>> Find out more about journal subscriptions at your site.
>>
>> Purchase from
>> Article Galaxy
>> CCC RightFind
>>
>> Rent from
>> Purchase this article on DeepDyve. Opens in new tab"
>
> Maybe here we have a subscription for librarary services.

Probably.

>> >> >> >> >> > or why not just use a PC or a Mac ?
>> >> >> >> >> Because he's a geek?
>> >> >> >> >> >> Would you
>> >> >> >> >> >> suggest that they are not multi-user systems? You can do exactly the
>> >> >> >> >> >> same with a Mac.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > But not effectively, otherwise they'd be no need for mainframes or minis or anythng else .
>> >> >> >> >> "They're just faster."
>> >> >> >> > and that's it is it. you forgot about price and physical size.
>> >> >> >> And your point is?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > That you don't know what you are talking about.
>> >> >> What exactly have I got wrong?
>> >> >
>> >> > "They're just faster." There's more to it than that.
>> >> > My iMac is much faster than my Macmini
>> >> My point is there's no need for distinction between server, mainframe, desktop. They can all do each other's work, and in a few years the small ones will be as powerful as the big ones.
>> >
>> > and the big ones will be more powerful still.
>> > So seems you can't tell the difference between a mainsframe a desktop and a laptop can they can all do the same.
>> > So to store the NHS patient records for the UK can be done on a laptop, and any doctor can access this laptop
>> > because it's a mulit-user device.
>> There is no line drawn. It's like a car, a fast car, and a faster car.
>
> There are lines drawn some cars aren;t allowed on public roads like the aston martin DB5 reconsrruction
> of the james bond car complete with fake guns rotating numberplate and other things , except the ejector seat.
> But at a few milliion dollars I assume you'll have yuor own private road to drive it on.

That's just stupid laws, they don't mean the cars are any different in function.

> Then theres the formula one cars that can't be driver on public roads.
> But there are other divisions the way cars are devided into groups, sports cars' saloons, SUV, hatchbacks, classic, motorsport, family
> penis extentions

They all take people from A to B and have varying amounts of luggage space and speed. There is no distinct point at which they change from one classification to the other.

>> >> In 1982 when I had a ZX Spectrum, people referred to the "MIP" as a fast supercomputer. A million calculations per second! But now I have between my home computers 30 trillion calculations per second, 30,000,000 times faster, although it does use 13 amps and create enough heat to open the window in winter.
>> >
>> > So your computer is just the same as a central heating system because both give out heat.
>> No, the central heating system would do no calculations.
>
> Well if run properly it could work out whether or not the heating should come on or not based by a thermostat and the ambinet temperature.

Hardly the same as 50 trillion calculations per second to 30 decimal places.

>> And it's technically 7 computers although they can be controlled as one.
>> >> >> >> >> > But we all know there's no difference between a screwdriver and a hammer.
>> >> >> >> >> I often use the wrong tool if it happens to be to hand.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Now there's a suprise.
>> >> >> >> > But what do you mean by the wrong tool.?
>> >> >> >> On that isn't so good, but will manage and is easier than going to get the "right" one.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Which is why people either by a PC or Mac or a mainframe or a supercomputer.
>> >> >> Hardly anyone has a supercomputer, except say the US Dept of Energy.
>> >> >
>> >> > There are quite a few coiuntries that have one but they aren't personal computers that are "They're just faster."
>> >> Bigger, faster, more power, where do you draw the line? What would you call my collection of 9 CPUs and 7 GPUs?
>> >
>> > A hobby, but I'd hardly call it that a passtime perhaps. 9 is hardly a lot, I had 2+ on my in my BBC with 2nd processor and
>> > teletext box in the mid 1980s.
>> A normal hobby doesn't use more electricity than I can afford.
>
> you might have to redefine afford. Each PC in my lab uses about 50W not sure how many of them I'd leave on if I were paying for them.
> Just had this discussion with the lab manager for the easter period should we shut them down.

50W? That's not a real computer. My best CPU uses 200W, my best GPU uses 250W.

>> > But why differenciate bewteen CPU and GPU it's just a Load of Transistors Doing Stuff maybe call them all LTDS chips.
>> One is more complex, one is faster. RISC and so forth.
>
> Does it matter ?

Yet you want to classify cars which are much more similar.

Why isn't there a word similarer?

>> >> >> They have something with 25,000 GPUs.
>> >> >
>> >> > Som there's more to distiguish types of computers than just how fast they are.
>> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > Same with a bus and a car no differnce both carry people from point A to point B
>> >> >> >> >> I've used my car to carry one metric tonne of ballast. Was fun getting it to go over the speedbumps.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Have you ever tried getting one metric tonne of ballast on a bus ?
>> >> >> >> No, but I know someone who successfully took a wardrobe on a bus. I think they used the nigger entrance.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > So a bus is now a delivery van or lorry.
>> >> >> It can be.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yep but london transport seem to buy these things with lots of seats in them, where as
>> >> > lorries only have a couple of seats.
>> >> Take the seats out and it's a campervan.
>> >
>> > What makes it a van rather than a car ?
>> Seat space vs. storage space. My 7 seater has 5 seats removed, it's now a van.
>
> A van is the shorted name which comes from caravan.
> A friend of mine has slept in his car, so what is a campervan .

I slept in mine, with a normal household mattress in the back where the seats were, very comfy.

For campervan I'd say you need some stuff in it like a TV, fridge, etc.

>> The MOT ignores the missing bits.
>> > What's the differnce and why does it have to be camp.
>> > Is it rainbox colours or is it used for mincing.
>> Only naked boys with hot abs are allowed in it.
>
> can;t get much camper than that.

Not if they have girlfriends they can invite in with a +1.

>> >>> I dont; even think a bus driver is allowed to drive a big lorry or a HGV driver is allowed to drive a bus.
>> >> I think one way is ok. There's extra shit to learn for passenger softy.
>> >
>> > You mean like stopping at bus stops, kind of important if you're driving a bus.
>> Between you and me, nothing. Health and softy brigade, fuck knows. Probably need to be able to do first aid for dying passengers.
>
> which could be handy, I'm guess HGV drivers need to know about weight restrictions and height/width stuff and securing loads.

Buses have a height, especially double decker, it's often written on a big plate above the windscreen so the driver can glance at it.

Weight restrictions and tying things down sounds easy. It's the health and softy shit for the passengers that probably requires more tuition.