On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 09:56:48 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> esims are far more convenient

Don't you read anything you respond to before you respond to it?
It's not about ESIMS. It's about the total cost over the phone lifetime.

Why can't you understand that concept instead of insisting total costs is
only about ESIMMs. It's not. It's about all the costs in owning a phone.

If his spreadsheet is to be realistic, he needs to add in the total costs.

In article <tprunb$1l6r4$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> A basic case will be about
> $20 for the same case you could buy for $1.25-$1.75 at a store like
> Daiso or Dollar Tree.

nope. the cases sold at the likes of dollar tree are cheap shit and not
the same as quality cases sold elsewhere.

In article <tprvgm$1l6r4$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> > I have a large collection of Lightening accessories, mostly for company
> > devices. The company is in no great hurry to replace those accessories. They
> > will if a lot of users go USB C, but Accounting won¹t like it. I figure
> > that we¹ll be mostly Lightening at work for years, and the replacements
> > will be due to attrition.
>
> I doubt if accounting will care very much.

yes they will, since replacing everyone's cables and accessories will
cost money, with zero tangible benefit.

> Remember, new iPhones come with a USB-C to USB-C cable.

no they don't.

On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 08:10:50 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>> Nobody said anything about ESIMS. You don't seem to understand SIM cards
>> can come in different sizes which is why I said what I said about them.
>
> There are probably zero phones being sold with anything other than nano
> SIM cards. There are also probably close to zero existing phones in use
> that use anything other than nano SIM cards.

If you are going to calculate total costs, you need to add up total costs.
You can use any sales price you can find but it's not going to be useful.

You need to add up the total costs at the carrier's store, out the door.
You should add one repair to make your total cost comparison realistic.

You can take half that repair cost if you think it happens only half the
time, or even one third that repair cost if you think it's less frequent.

But to completely ignore repair costs is no more realistic than comparing a
main battle tank to a Toyota without bothering to add in maintenance costs.

> In any case, in the U.S., if you buy a new phone from a carrier it comes
> with a SIM card. If you need a new SIM card they are free for the asking
> from postpaid carriers, and may cost $1-5 for prepaid carriers (if you
> buy one in a retail store).

Total costs are not about any one item, but the sum total of all items.

Your argument that accessories are free isn't a realistic argument.
Neither is your argument that people can't find Android accessories.

If you want your spreadsheet to be realistic, you have to stop ignoring the
costs that most people end up paying when they buy a phone at the store.

An obvious example is you completely ignore that the sales tax alone, in
some places, could be higher than the cost of all the accessories combined.

Same with a typical repair cost, which could cost more than some phones.

To omit all the real costs in buying a phone makes your spreadsheet useless
for anything other than to skew results toward what YOU want them to be.

I realize it isn't obvious how to add in variable costs such as the cost
for repairs and/or insurance plans to mitigate those costs, so use an
average or use an example and then divide by five for all I care.

Just don't completely ignore almost all the costs in owning a phone.

> Not sure what country you are in, it may be different where you live.

Doesn't matter. It's your spreadsheet. Pick the country YOU live in.

You can pick the state you live in for calculating the sales tax.

Same with resale/tradein figures, which absolutely must be averaged to take
into account almost nobody trades in or sells their phone nowadays.

You can argue against any one of my recommendations above, but all of them
are focused on one goal which is to tell you what you need for total costs.

Anything less than that is just a spreadsheet designed to skew the result.

Can you answer this simple question?

If you bill your spreadsheet as total costs over the lifetime of the
device, why didn't you put in the total costs over the device's lifetime?

On 13 Jan 2023 15:38:15 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> dumb ass.

If his spreadsheet is to be realistic, he needs to add in the total costs.

Instead of calling me a "dumb ass" for suggesting he add up total costs for
his total cost of ownership over the phone's lifetime, why don't you list
what you think are the total costs of a phone over its lifetime like I did?

Instead of calling me a "dumb ass" because YOU don't know the answer, why
don't you learn the answer to the question first before you next respond.

On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 09:56:46 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> that's not why many people call you stupid.

Calling me "stupid" because you don't know what calculations go into the
total cost of ownership is not going to help him correct his spreadsheet.

Instead of calling me "stupid" because YOU don't know how to calculate the
total cost of ownership of a smartphone, why don't YOU list what YOU think
are the costs involved in owning a typical smartphone over it's lifetime.

I listed those costs.
You dispute all of them (without even understanding any of them).

Instead of trying to make the total cost of ownership only about ESIMs,
why don't YOU list what YOU think goes into total cost of ownership?

In article <tps1kp$1e85$1@gioia.aioe.org>, JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:

>
> > that's not why many people call you stupid.
>
> Calling me "stupid" because I don't know what calculations go into the
> total cost of ownership is

ftfy, and it's just one of many reasons

On 1/13/2023 6:24 AM, JAB wrote:
> On 13 Jan 2023 02:34:16 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> Are you actually trying to suggest I haven't been able to connect my new
>> iPhone to the cellular network or charge it since I bought it? What kind
>> of dumb ass are you?
>
> Calling me a "dumb ass" doesn't make you understand that you're paying for
> a phone that supports QC or PD standards but you're not getting what you
> paid for if you don't use the appropriate charger for that specification.

Back when Apple stopped including chargers, and first sold phones
capable of high-wattage charging, it was more of an issue.

By now, most phone users, whether Android or iPhone, will own a charger
that is sufficiently high wattage for fast charging.

Since the iPhone 8, in 2017, iPhones have supported 18W charging.
The iPhone 13 Pro and 14 Pro support 27W charging.

PD/QC chargers are probably the one accessory that nearly every phone
user knows that they can buy inexpensively at Amazon, and slightly less
expensively at Costco.
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B094N5T14N>
<https://www.costco.com/scosche-powervolt-pd30-usb-c-30w-power-delivery-mini-fast-charger%2c-2-pack.product.100976871.html>

Best Buy charges $9.99 for a 20W USB-C charger
<https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-20-w-usb-c-wall-charger-white/6449025.p?skuId=6449025>

On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 07:52:08 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>> On the SIM cards, what I said was "Even the SIM card costs 20 dollars if
>> you don't have an old one to fit" which is what YOU did not understand.
>
> Again, not sure what country you are in, but in the U.S., there is
> generally little to no cost for a SIM card. The carriers give them out
> for free.

Again, it doesn't matter where I live since it's YOUR spreadsheet.
You're the one with the spreadsheet billed as the total cost of ownership.

> If you are signing up with an existing phone, on a prepaid carrier,
> sometimes there is a small charge for a SIM card if you purchase it in a
> retail store, generally $1-2, sometimes $5, see
> <https://www.target.com/s?searchTerm=SIM+card> but the MVNO will usually
> send you one at no cost. The biggest prepaid carrier, Verizon's
> assortment of Tracfone brands, technically doesn't allow using an old
> SIM card in a new phone--if you bring your own new phone you are
> supposed to get a new SIM card, and the new phones they sell all come
> with a SIM card.

Your spreadsheet can not simply ignore all the real costs you'd pay when
you go to your carrier's store nearest to where YOU live to be realistic.
> It's cases, screen protectors, and cables, where you can spend a
> considerable amount of money if you buy them at the carrier's store or
> at a big box electronics store like Best Buy. A basic case will be about
> $20 for the same case you could buy for $1.25-$1.75 at a store like
> Daiso or Dollar Tree.

For your local carrier store, buy all the accessories that most people buy.
Price that out and add up the tax for your local area to be realistic.
>
> Here's a basic iPhone case from Verizon for an iPhone 12:
> <https://www.verizon.com/products/evutec-karbon-silicone-ultra-thin-case-for-iphone-12-iphone-12-pro/?sku=sku4620296>.
> $14.99.
>
> Here's a basic iPhone case from Dollar Tree for a iPhone 12:
> <https://www.dollartree.com/clam-phone-cases-for-iphones-12-6x3125-in/330958>
> $1.25
>
> Here's an iPhone 12 screen protector from Verizon:
> <https://www.verizon.com/products/verizon-blue-light-tempered-glass-screen-protector-iphone-12-iphone-12-pro/?sku=sku4340293>
> $19.98
>
> Here's an iPhone 12 screen protector from Dollar Tree:
> <https://www.dollartree.com/glass-screen-protectors-for-iphones-12-and-12pro/332296>
> $1.25.

You can't use Dollar Tree prices when nobody buys a phone there.
People buy a phone at their carrier's store nearest to where they live.

You need to, at the very least, say where you live, and then say what
carrier you are on, and then pick THAT carrier's nearest store for prices.

>
> As I pointed out in the TCO document, you'll find only iPhone
> after-market accessories at the retail stores like Daiso, Dollar Tree,
> etc., because iPhones are the most popular devices and there's not that
> many different models (and some models use the same accessories). For
> Android, even just for Samsung, there are 17 different Galaxy devices
> <https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/phones/all-phones/?carrier=Unlocked+by+Samsung>.

Most people live somewhere, unlike what you seem to be intimating.
Most people have a specific carrier, unlike what you seem to be intimating.
Most people have a carrier store nearby, unlike what you are intimating.

Most people buy their phone and accessories at that carrier's store.

> Of course there are some phone purchasers that are not price-sensitive,
> or aware of how much this kind of stuff costs when purchased from Amazon
> or a vendor on eBay or AliExpress, or in other retail stores.

If you're NOT going to list in your spreadsheet what carrier you use, and
what location you live in, and where the nearest carrier's store is, then
nobody can check your figures for reliability on accuracy or repeatability.

On 1/13/2023 8:42 AM, JAB wrote:

<snip>

> Instead of trying to make the total cost of ownership only about ESIMs,
> why don't YOU list what YOU think goes into total cost of ownership?

The cost of accessories is not all that different for iPhone versus
Android so there is no point in including those costs in the table.

It is true that certain accessories, like basic cases and screen
protectors are less expensive for the iPhone because they are
distributed not only by carriers and the phone manufacturers, but also
by discount retailers.

On the other hand, high-quality USB-C to Lightning cables are
significantly more expensive than high-quality USB-C to USB-C cables
because of the MFi royalties. A quality USB-C to Lightning Cable is
about $12 while a quality USB-C to USB-C cable is about $6. For both
iPhone and Android, a cable is included with the phone, but most users
will want more than one.

When calculating TCO, it’s important to look at the big picture. Again,
not sure what country you're in, obviously not the U.S. since in your
country carriers are apparently charging high prices just for a SIM card.

On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 08:51:27 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Back when Apple stopped including chargers, and first sold phones
> capable of high-wattage charging, it was more of an issue.

Are you billing your spreadsheet as the total cost of ownership or not?
Ignoring every single high-priced item is a counter factual approach.

By you choosing to completely ignore costs like sales tax can be (on a
thousand dollar phone the sales tax alone can be more than accessories)
and by you ignoring almost all typical costs associated with owning a
phone, all you're really showing is that your spreadsheet is fraudulent.

I'm only asking you to make your spreadsheet useful instead of fictitious.

You live somewhere real, don't you?
You have a real carrier, don't you?
You have a current real iPhone and similar Samsung in mind, don't you?

Pick your carrier's nearest store to where you live (so that you don't skew
the numbers) and then calculate how much it costs to buy the phone and all
the typical accessories for that phone - if they didn't come with the box.

Anything else is fraudulent.

> By now, most phone users, whether Android or iPhone, will own a charger
> that is sufficiently high wattage for fast charging.

If your spreadsheet is to be realistic, it can't assume everyone gets
everything that is needed for a phone, for free, including no tax, no
repairs, no accessories (or accessories that cost one dollar!).

Your assumptions that entire families share a single PD/QC charger is a
misleading assumption which is clearly designed to favor the iPhone.

Every single one of your fake assumptions is designed to favor the iPhone.
As a result, your entire spreadsheet is an unsound erroneous sham.

> Since the iPhone 8, in 2017, iPhones have supported 18W charging.
> The iPhone 13 Pro and 14 Pro support 27W charging.
>
> PD/QC chargers are probably the one accessory that nearly every phone
> user knows that they can buy inexpensively at Amazon, and slightly less
> expensively at Costco.
> <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B094N5T14N>
>
> <https://www.costco.com/scosche-powervolt-pd30-usb-c-30w-power-delivery-mini-fast-charger%2c-2-pack.product.100976871.html>
>
> Best Buy charges $9.99 for a 20W USB-C charger
> <https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-20-w-usb-c-wall-charger-white/6449025.p?skuId=6449025>

If you want to bill the spreadsheet as NOT your own fiction, then pick an
Android (Samsung) and iPhone of your choosing at the carrier's store
nearest you & price it out along with all necessary & common accessories.

Then add up the tax and the cost of one repair and then subtract whatever
residual value is left after both phones have been used for three years.

Anything less than that should be billed as your personal dishonest sham.

In article <tps352$1lhhq$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> It is true that certain accessories, like basic cases and screen
> protectors are less expensive for the iPhone because they are
> distributed not only by carriers and the phone manufacturers, but also
> by discount retailers.

it's not true.

what is true is that prices for cases and screen protectors are pretty
much the same, regardless of device.

>
> On the other hand, high-quality USB-C to Lightning cables are
> significantly more expensive than high-quality USB-C to USB-C cables

that's also not true. the difference, if any, is insignificant.

> because of the MFi royalties. A quality USB-C to Lightning Cable is
> about $12 while a quality USB-C to USB-C cable is about $6.

your prices are fabricated and wrong.

but even if we are to assume that was true, a difference of $6 is not
going to make any difference whatsoever in the grand scheme of things.

> For both
> iPhone and Android, a cable is included with the phone, but most users
> will want more than one.

some might, and they almost certainly have several from previous phones
and various other devices.

> When calculating TCO, it¹s important to look at the big picture.

you might try doing that.

> Again,
> not sure what country you're in, obviously not the U.S. since in your
> country carriers are apparently charging high prices just for a SIM card.

not only is it obvious where he is, but it's obvious who he is.

pretending to not know isn't credible.

On 1/13/2023 9:03 AM, JAB wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 07:52:08 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>>> On the SIM cards, what I said was "Even the SIM card costs 20 dollars if
>>> you don't have an old one to fit" which is what YOU did not understand.
>>
>> Again, not sure what country you are in, but in the U.S., there is
>> generally little to no cost for a SIM card. The carriers give them out
>> for free.
>
> Again, it doesn't matter where I live since it's YOUR spreadsheet.
> You're the one with the spreadsheet billed as the total cost of ownership.

You're right, it doesn't matter. Whatever country you're in, if they are
charging $20 for SIM cards then they're charging for them for both
Android devices and iPhones. However if they're charging for physical
SIM cards, but not eSIMs, then there would be a slight savings for the
iPhone. Could you please provide a reference or citation to a carrier or
country where a SIM card for a new phone costs $20?

The spreadsheet is very U.S.-centric. It also doesn't look at costs that
are essentially the same for both Android and iPhone devices, or that
vary by location in the U.S. but are the same for both platforms, like
sales tax or recycling fees.

The purpose of the document was simply to prove that the TCO of
comparable devices, regardless of the operating system, is pretty close.
It achieved that goal.

On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 11:47:27 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> it's just one of many reasons

Again, you calling me "stupid" because YOU don't know what calculations go
into total cost of ownership does nothing to make his spreadsheet accurate.

Am 13.01.23 um 17:05 schrieb sms:
> Remember, new iPhones come with a USB-C to USB-C cable.

My iPhone 14 did not.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

In article <tps4uu$12jfn$1@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:

> Am 13.01.23 um 17:05 schrieb sms:
> > Remember, new iPhones come with a USB-C to USB-C cable.
>
> My iPhone 14 did not.

no iphone does.

what they come with is a usb-c to lightning cable.

Am 13.01.23 um 18:21 schrieb JAB:
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 08:51:27 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Back when Apple stopped including chargers, and first sold phones
>> capable of high-wattage charging, it was more of an issue.
>
> Are you billing your spreadsheet as the total cost of ownership or not?
> Ignoring every single high-priced item is a counter factual approach.

Arlen you are and you remain a Troll.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 13.01.23 um 18:32 schrieb JAB:
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 11:47:27 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> it's just one of many reasons
>
> Again, you calling me "stupid" because YOU don't know what calculations go
> into total cost of ownership does nothing to make his spreadsheet accurate.

Arlen, shut up!
A cost of ownership calculation for mobile phones is utter bullshit.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 09:07:46 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>> Instead of trying to make the total cost of ownership only about ESIMs,
>> why don't YOU list what YOU think goes into total cost of ownership?
>
> The cost of accessories is not all that different for iPhone versus
> Android so there is no point in including those costs in the table.

Prove it.

If what you say is true, then just prove it using the price for accessories
at a carrier store near where YOU live (so you don't skew the numbers).

OEM case
OEM screen
OEM cables (3 feet, 6 feet & 10 feet, subtract whichever comes in the box)
OEM charger (subtract if an OEM charger comes inside the box)
OEM earphones (subtract if OEM earphones come inside the box)

You must use OEM prices because OEM parts come in the box so you can't
realistically compare one phone with OEM accessories against another phone
that has dollar store accessories as that's your own fictitious sham.
> It is true that certain accessories, like basic cases and screen
> protectors are less expensive for the iPhone because they are
> distributed not only by carriers and the phone manufacturers, but also
> by discount retailers.

The only reliable consistent comparison is OEM prices for OEM parts.
Especially as OEM parts are ALWAYs what comes with a phone in the box.

For Apple phones, you price Apple OEM parts.
For Samsung phones, you price Samsung OEM parts.

Anything else is your personal chimerical ever changing fictitious scam.

> On the other hand, high-quality USB-C to Lightning cables are
> significantly more expensive than high-quality USB-C to USB-C cables
> because of the MFi royalties. A quality USB-C to Lightning Cable is
> about $12 while a quality USB-C to USB-C cable is about $6. For both
> iPhone and Android, a cable is included with the phone, but most users
> will want more than one.

It's so simple to calculate cost of ownership that it's worrisome you don't
know how to add up OEM costs for OEM parts for an iPhone & for a Samsung.

You should add a 3 foot cable, a 6 foot cable & a 10 foot cable which
is what many people use since one cable will NEVER do unless people are
in a hospital room strapped to their bed their entire lives.

Only if the manufacturer doesn't sell the OEM cable should you use an
off-OEM cable, and even then, you must note you substituted a non OEM part.

>
> When calculating TCO, it�s important to look at the big picture.

Again, it's YOUR spreadsheet. You bill it as total cost of ownership.

For half the items, you used dollar-store prices which nobody does.
You're fully missing the entire other half of the costs of ownership.

It's a fictitious scam unless your own spreadsheet includes real costs.

> Again,
> not sure what country you're in, obviously not the U.S. since in your
> country carriers are apparently charging high prices just for a SIM card.

Again, it doesn't matter where I live because it's YOUR spreadsheet.

Pick the real location YOU live in.
Pick the real carrier YOU use.
Pick the real store of that real carrier in the real location you live in.

Go to that real store and pick two real phones.
An iPhone.
And a similar Samsung phone.

Price it out at that real carrier store in the real location you live.
Add the cost at that real store for an OEM case & OEM screen.
Add the cost at that real store of a 3 foot, 6 foot & 10 foot OEM cable
unless those three cables already come with the phone & we know they don't.

Add the cost at that real store of an OEM charger designed for that phone.
Again, if the OEM charger comes with the phone, then omit that cost, but do
NOT compare an OEM charger that comes with one phone to the non-OEM
dollar-store charger that you have to buy for the other phone.

That is the hallmark of a scammer who is fluffing the numbers on purpose.

Add the real tax at that real store for the OEM accessories you just bought
and that will be the total price out the door but it's still NOT enough.

For total cost of ownership, you have to assume a percentage of phones will
be repaired. If you think it's half the phones, then pick a typical repair
cost at that same real carrier store where YOU live and divide in half.

If you think the repair only happens to every third phone, then divide by 3
and if you think a repair happens to every fourth phone, then divide by 4.

But to completely ignore that repairs happen is yet another of the bogus
deceptive assumptions you are making expressly to skew results your way.

Repairs happen.

It's the same math for tradein/resale residual value where you know more
than two thirds of people never bother with the inconvenient wrangling.

If your spreadsheet is to be considered reliable, you must take that into
account, which is easily done by multiplying resale by those percentages.

That is how you calculate a realistic believable total cost of ownership.

On 1/13/2023 9:21 AM, JAB wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 08:51:27 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Back when Apple stopped including chargers, and first sold phones
>> capable of high-wattage charging, it was more of an issue.
>
> Are you billing your spreadsheet as the total cost of ownership or not?
> Ignoring every single high-priced item is a counter factual approach.
>
> By you choosing to completely ignore costs like sales tax can be (on a
> thousand dollar phone the sales tax alone can be more than accessories)
> and by you ignoring almost all typical costs associated with owning a
> phone, all you're really showing is that your spreadsheet is fraudulent.

Sales tax varies by location. In some states it's 0%. Sales tax is the
same percentage for all the devices.

I do include the cost of chargers, from the manufacturer, for each device.

"If you want to buy accessories from the manufacturer, prices are
comparable. A Samsung 25W USB-C PD wired charger is $19.99. An Apple 20W
USB-C PD wired charger is $19.00. Google charges $25 for a 30W charger."
>

On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 12:22:51 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> For both
>> iPhone and Android, a cable is included with the phone, but most users
>> will want more than one.
>
> some might, and they almost certainly have several from previous phones
> and various other devices.

Nobody owns just one cable. At the least, people have one for the car and
one for the home but most people buy the cable in various sizes.

And nobody wants to use their old frayed cable with their new phone.
Plus many new phones have a different connection than the older phones.

For a realistic total cost of ownership, it's reasonable to argue for a new
3 foot, a new 6 foot and a new ten foot OEM cable but if you want to pick
three new cables of a different size then just make a case for those sizes.

The actual lengths don't matter so much as the cost of multiple cables
since most people have multiple cables so just compare apples to apples.

It must be an OEM cable though, as the COMPARISON of one phone that comes
in the box with an OEM cable to another phone with no cable in the box
means to use dollar store cables for that comparison is disingenuous.

To be believable, the spreadsheet has to compare costs using OEM prices.

If he wants to make the claim he can get better prices at his local dollar
tree store, then he can add those chimerical better prices as a footnote.

OEM prices or it's a bogus sham.

>> When calculating TCO, it's important to look at the big picture.
>
> you might try doing that.

I have to agree that he has never looked at the total cost of ownership.

At best, he looked at ownership if you get everything for free, and at
worst, he looked at ownership if you buy everything at a dollar store.

And he omitted many of the inherent costs of ownership such as repairs.

In article <tps7a8$cn7$1@gioia.aioe.org>, JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:

>
> >> For both
> >> iPhone and Android, a cable is included with the phone, but most users
> >> will want more than one.
> >
> > some might, and they almost certainly have several from previous phones
> > and various other devices.
>
> Nobody owns just one cable. At the least, people have one for the car and
> one for the home but most people buy the cable in various sizes.

that's exactly why people don't need yet another cable, although they
do get one with the phone itself.

you're contradicting yourself, as usual.

> And nobody wants to use their old frayed cable with their new phone.

who said anything about frayed?

you're grasping at straws.

> Plus many new phones have a different connection than the older phones.

no they don't. iphones have used lightning for more than 10 years and
android has been using usb-c for about 5 years, which means that there
is no issue whatsoever in using an existing cable.

> For a realistic total cost of ownership, it's reasonable to argue for a new
> 3 foot, a new 6 foot and a new ten foot OEM cable

nope, it is *not* reasonable to argue that, and anyone who does is
trolling.

On 2023-01-13 09:28:48 +0000, sms said:

> Could you please provide a reference or citation to a carrier or
> country where a SIM card for a new phone costs $20?

It's $25 in the USA for tmo but they often discount $5 off that.

https://community.t-mobile.com/accounts-services-4/25-sim-card-charge-times-two-9563

In article <tpt4v4$1p1sn$1@dont-email.me>, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:

>
> > Could you please provide a reference or citation to a carrier or
> > country where a SIM card for a new phone costs $20?
>
> It's $25 in the USA for tmo but they often discount $5 off that.
>
> https://community.t-mobile.com/accounts-services-4/25-sim-card-charge-times-two-9563

403, and no it's not.

<https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone/t-mobile-sim-card>

note that it's free for *both* an esim *and* a physical sim.

On 1/13/2023 6:45 PM, gtr wrote:
> On 2023-01-13 09:28:48 +0000, sms said:
>
>> Could you please provide a reference or citation to a carrier or
>> country where a SIM card for a new phone costs $20?
>
> It's $25 in the USA for tmo but they often discount $5 off that.
>
> https://community.t-mobile.com/accounts-services-4/25-sim-card-charge-times-two-9563

Nope. You posted a link to a four year old article in the T-Mobile
community.

The reality is that a SIM care is free. See:
<https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone/t-mobile-sim-card>.