On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 15:24:16 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> Then, after spending $900 on a phone, what's an extra $100 for accessories.
>
> what in the world are you buying???
>
> a case and screen protector together would generally be an additional
> $20-30 or so.

What good is a new phone, new case, new protector but no SIM card and no
way to charge the phone to the specifications that it's designed for?

On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 15:18:03 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Will some buyers just pay the high prices at the carrier's store or the
> manufacturer's store?

Of course people buy the accessories when they buy a new phone.

The accessories are only about $100 on any given phone depending on what
comes with the phone.

You think they put all those accessories in the carrier's store just for
holiday decorations?

Even the SIM card costs 20 dollars if you don't have an old one to fit.

You think all that stuff is always free?

You can't ignore more than 20% of the cost of a phone in your spreadsheets.
As a result, your spreadsheet is more than 20% off the mark from the start.

On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 18:26:14 -0700, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:

> I wonder if screen protectors are really needed with the hardened glass
> found on today's modern phones or are they just a cash cow for the
> aftermarket folks. Opinions on the net are varied...

People said the same thing in the sixties about padded car dashboards.

In article <tpqcv3$1e7k$1@gioia.aioe.org>, JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:

> Of course people buy the accessories when they buy a new phone.

they might buy a new case, but that's about it.

> The accessories are only about $100 on any given phone depending on what
> comes with the phone.

rubbish. cases are generally $20-30, with some low quality ones for
less and some fancy ones for more.

anyone who is spending $100 on accessories either has way too much
money or is incredibly stupid. it's also clear into which category you
belong.

> Even the SIM card costs 20 dollars if you don't have an old one to fit.

esims are free and carriers give out physical sims for free for older
phones that require them.

it helps to actually understand how things work, otherwise you look
stupid, and you wouldn't want to do that, now would you?

In article <tpqcp6$1cjv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:

> What good is a new phone, new case, new protector but no SIM card and no
> way to charge the phone to the specifications that it's designed for?

what a load of bullshit.

the iphone 14 family supports up to *eight* esims, which is among the
most of any phone (if not the most), with two sims being active at any
given time. it can also easily be charged from any of the billions of
existing chargers and cables people already have.

In article <tpqc02$1djmp$2@dont-email.me>, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:

>
> I wonder if screen protectors are really needed with the hardened glass
> found on today's modern phones or are they just a cash cow for the
> aftermarket folks. Opinions on the net are varied...

that depends how harsh someone is with their devices.

if they put it in a pocket full of rocks and sharp objects, then quite
possibly it's a good idea.

On 1/12/2023 6:44 PM, JAB wrote:
> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:

>> I wonder if screen protectors are really needed with the hardened
>> glass found on today's modern phones or are they just a cash cow
>> for the aftermarket folks. Opinions on the net are varied...

> People said the same thing in the sixties about padded car
> dashboards.

Yup. But those dashboards cracked all by themselves, no help needed. And
of course the aftermarket folks were there too selling us dash covers to
cover the cracks...

On 2023-01-13, JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 15:24:16 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Then, after spending $900 on a phone, what's an extra $100 for accessories.
>>
>> what in the world are you buying???
>>
>> a case and screen protector together would generally be an additional
>> $20-30 or so.
>
> What good is a new phone, new case, new protector but no SIM card and no
> way to charge the phone to the specifications that it's designed for?

Are you actually trying to suggest I haven't been able to connect my new
iPhone to the cellular network or charge it since I bought it? What kind
of dumb ass are you?

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 1/12/2023 5:43 PM, JAB wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 15:18:03 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Will some buyers just pay the high prices at the carrier's store or the
>> manufacturer's store?
>
> Of course people buy the accessories when they buy a new phone.
>
> The accessories are only about $100 on any given phone depending on what
> comes with the phone.
>
> You think they put all those accessories in the carrier's store just for
> holiday decorations?
>
> Even the SIM card costs 20 dollars if you don't have an old one to fit.

Not sure what country you're in, but in the U.S., when you buy a new
phone from the carrier, it will come with a SIM card if you're starting
new service.

On 1/12/2023 5:26 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 1/12/2023 7:04 AM, sms wrote:
>
>> A store like Best Buy will often carry some non-Apple accessories
>> for the phones that they sell, but not at a good price
>
> I was killing time in a Best Buy today and was surprised to find that my
> old Galaxy S10+ was listed on the Android accessory aisle sign among
> many later Galaxy phones. But upon closer inspection there were no S10+
> products to be found...

I guess they rarely update their signs. Usually accessories for older
Android devices need to be ordered online.

One nice thing about the iPhones is that they often use the same size
bodies and screens. My wife has been using her custom iPhone case,
provided by her employer, for three phones, iPhone 6, iPhone 7, SE2020.
The disappointment she had was when she realized that beginning with the
iPhone 7 there was no headphone jack behind the hole for the headphone
jack on the case, but the 7 came with the Lightning to headphone jack
adapter.

On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 20:06:04 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>> Even the SIM card costs 20 dollars if you don't have an old one to fit.
>
> Not sure what country you're in, but in the U.S., when you buy a new
> phone from the carrier, it will come with a SIM card if you're starting
> new service.

Do you even read the messages you are responding to?

Your response forces me to repeat what I said which was "even the SIM card
costs 20 dollars if you don't have an old one to fit", which means that
you're not starting new service - you're just changing phones - but when
the old phone uses a different SIM card than the new phone, you need a new
SIM card.

It wasn't really about the SIM card but about the fact you assume everyone
is like you and they're not like you in that nobody reuses all their old
accessories when they get a new phone - they buy all new accessories for
it.

Sometimes they have to & sometimes they should to get the new features.

For most people, the accessories easily are $100 at the store they got the
phone from, where the charger & case are the most expensive of those.

A SIM card is sometimes something you need so you must account for that,
and a charger is always needed and should be up to the latest standards.

Please read the posts before you respond to them, as everything you write
seems to be purposefully designed to make the accessory costs disappear.

Your spreadsheet on total costs needs to account for total costs, not just
costs if you re-use all your old power cords, cases, chargers, and SIMs.

Otherwise it's just your own personal accounting that nobody else can use.

On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 20:58:45 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> The accessories are only about $100 on any given phone depending on what
>> comes with the phone.
>
> rubbish. cases are generally $20-30, with some low quality ones for
> less and some fancy ones for more.
>
> anyone who is spending $100 on accessories either has way too much
> money or is incredibly stupid. it's also clear into which category you
> belong.

Rubbish. Cases are what you said but just a SIM can cost $20, so you're
already at half that $100 before you even buy the PD or QC charger.

>> Even the SIM card costs 20 dollars if you don't have an old one to fit.
>
> esims are free and carriers give out physical sims for free for older
> phones that require them.

Do you read anything before you post? Who was talking about ESIMS?
And who was talking about older phones?

You seem to be intent on making accessory costs disappear when they exist.

> it helps to actually understand how things work, otherwise you look
> stupid, and you wouldn't want to do that, now would you?

No. It helps if YOU actually understand how things work. Otherwise you are
stupid. Don't call me stupid because YOU can't understand what I said.

On the SIM cards, what I said was "Even the SIM card costs 20 dollars if
you don't have an old one to fit" which is what YOU did not understand.

Please understand that simple sentence before you call anyone else stupid
because it seems you have no clue that SIM cards can be different sizes.

On Jan 10, 2023, Alan wrote
(in article <tpj15i$fm00$1@dont-email.me>):

> On 2023-01-09 21:06, Thomas wrote:
> > On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 8:47:09 PM, Alan wrote:
> >
> > > they can do it on
> > > an iPhone if they want to do it.
> >
> > Then why don't they do it?
>
> They have a large customer base that has a great number of devices and
> accessories for which Lightning is the required connector.

I have two iPhones and two iPads. One of the iPads has a USB. C connector,
the other one and both iPhones have Lightening. I’ll probably be scrapping
the iPad 6 fairly soon, it’s getting elderly and I mostly use it as a
spare. One of the iPhones is a company phone. All the company phone chargers
are Lightening or assorted mini/micro USB things to feed the dwindling
(rapidly) number of Android devices. If the company goes USB C, then the
company phone will go USB C, too. It won’t be an Android. We were a
WinPhone shop for a long time, then MS screwed us over with new versions of
the OS which were incompatible with the old versions for the _third_ time,
and we went Apple and Android. The users picked their choice of device, the
company paid for it. At first, the majority (over 65%) were Android; I had an
Android for my company phone. That’s down to under 10% and falling rapidly.
The people have spoken; they were not impressed by Android devices.

I just refreshed my company phone two years ago, so I’m good for at least
two-three years. Others may refresh their phones next year, Apple may/may not
have a USB C port on iPhones next year, if Apple does, the users will get USB
C, if not, they’ll go with Lightening. No-one cares enough about USB C to
move to Android, and the Android users are either sticking with their old
devices or moving to iPhones. None show any interest in getting new Androids.
I figure Android will be extinct at work in 18-24 months; Android tablets are
already extinct, replaced by iPads or MS Surfaces. (My old iPad 6 was a
company device, and I have a Surface. I’m not particularly impressed by it,
but it’s usable. And has a weird power connector, totally
non-
standard.https://pisces.bbystatic.com/image2/BestBuy_US/images/products/5710/5
710306_sd
..jpg Gee, I wonder why Arlen isn’t on about how MS can’t follow
standards...) My personal phone is an iPhone. After my experience with
Android, I will never, ever, get an Android device for personal use. My
personal phone is just over a year old, I’m good for at least three-four
years. By that time iPhones will have USB C.

I have a large collection of Lightening accessories, mostly for company
devices. The company is in no great hurry to replace those accessories. They
will if a lot of users go USB C, but Accounting won’t like it. I figure
that we’ll be mostly Lightening at work for years, and the replacements
will be due to attrition.
>
>
> Why do you think they don't do it?

Arlen can’t think.
>
>
> You agree that they very clearly can, right? You're not that pigheaded
> and/or ignorant, are you?

He is.

JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:
>
> Even the SIM card costs 20 dollars if you don't have an old one to fit.

*Just* a SIM or do you mean a SIM with $20 off credit? Here in the UK you
could them for £1 or free directly from the provider. Now I you can only
buy ones with credit on them.

If an existing sim stops working or you lose it, the provider will send you
another for free.
Never heard of just a sim costing anything near that.

On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 20:58:55 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> What good is a new phone, new case, new protector but no SIM card and no
>> way to charge the phone to the specifications that it's designed for?
>
> what a load of bullshit.
>
> the iphone 14 family supports up to *eight* esims, which is among the
> most of any phone (if not the most), with two sims being active at any
> given time. it can also easily be charged from any of the billions of
> existing chargers and cables people already have.

Do you read anything before you respond to it?

Nobody said anything about ESIMS. You don't seem to understand SIM cards
can come in different sizes which is why I said what I said about them.

Educate yourself on SIM cards please before you reply without even reading
what I said. It wasn't all about SIM cards anyway. That was just one cost
which the spreadsheet ignored. There were plenty of other ignored costs
such as the cost of a charger which is designed for that phone's spec.

What about the cost of the insurance plan or at least one typical repair?

And he didn't even account for taxation costs which can be as much as the
accessories or even more than the cost of the accessories he omitted.

There are other costs, such as the case and the screen protector too.
None of that is in his spreadsheet so for you to defend it is absurd.

If he's going to calculate total costs, he needs to add up total costs.
Not just the MSRP.

Why he is ignoring all these obvious costs is a bit disturbing because it
indicates he's not trying to calculate & compare total costs after all.

On 13 Jan 2023 02:34:16 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> Are you actually trying to suggest I haven't been able to connect my new
> iPhone to the cellular network or charge it since I bought it? What kind
> of dumb ass are you?

Calling me a "dumb ass" doesn't make you understand that you're paying for
a phone that supports QC or PD standards but you're not getting what you
paid for if you don't use the appropriate charger for that specification.

Calling me a "dumb ass" doesn't make you understand that SIM cards come in
different sizes and sometimes the old SIM doesn't fit the new SIM slot.

Calling me a "dumb ass" doesn't make you understand that not all phones are
equipped with ESIM capabilities.

Calling me a "dumb ass" is your way of coping with your own inabilities.
Not mine.

On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 14:05:40 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Never heard of just a sim costing anything near that.

You have to understand what I said and why I said it before you start
telling me that you get your SIM cards for less than they charge elsewhere.

I made the observation that accessories were not included in his
spreadsheet, to which someone said that $100 was too much to assume for
those costs, and I was simply listing some of the costs over and above the
MSRP which are often purchased when someone goes to the carrier for a
phone.

You go to the carrier to buy a phone and the accessories for that phone are
carried by the carrier because people buy them along with the phone, so
that when they walk out of the store, the phone is all set up for them.

The carrier's personnel are trained to recommend you buy common accessories
such as a charger to fit the capabilities of the phone, a case to protect
the phone, maybe a screen protector, maybe a high wattage car charger to
fit the phone's spec, maybe a pack of a 3 foot, 6 foot, and 10 foot cables,
maybe an insurance plan and maybe sales tax too (depending on the area).

None of that is in his spreadsheet, which is why I said at first you need
to understand what I said and why I said it.

On the minor issue of the SIM card, again, you need to understand what I
said and why I said it.

What I said was "Even the SIM card costs 20 dollars if you don't have an
old one to fit."

Why I said it was in some cases, you have an old phone with a SIM card that
isn't the same size as that which goes into the new phone, and some
carriers have a $20 de facto charge for such things (I have been charged
this so I know of this charge).

Those who responded saying they didn't know that this charge exists just
means they didn't understand what I said and why I said it.

Alls I'm trying to say is that the TCO spreadsheet has almost none of these
common costs which happen when you buy a phone at the carrier's store.

In article <tprlgr$147e$1@gioia.aioe.org>, JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:

>
> Your response forces me to repeat what I said which was

and still is wrong.

> "even the SIM card
> costs 20 dollars if you don't have an old one to fit", which means that
> you're not starting new service - you're just changing phones - but when
> the old phone uses a different SIM card than the new phone, you need a new
> SIM card.

nope. service is easily transferred to an esim *for* *free* (and might
already be an esim). a few clicks on a website and it's done.

worst case, visit a carrier store and they'll give you a new sim, for
free.

In article <tprlpv$183g$1@gioia.aioe.org>, JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:

>
> >> The accessories are only about $100 on any given phone depending on what
> >> comes with the phone.
> >
> > rubbish. cases are generally $20-30, with some low quality ones for
> > less and some fancy ones for more.
> >
> > anyone who is spending $100 on accessories either has way too much
> > money or is incredibly stupid. it's also clear into which category you
> > belong.
>
> Rubbish.

at least you admit it.

> Cases are what you said but just a SIM can cost $20,

it 'can' in some magical fantasy world that exists only in your
delusional head.

here in the real world, esims are free, or just swap the old physical
sim, also for free.

> so you're
> already at half that $100 before you even buy the PD or QC charger.

i realize math is hard, but $20 is not half of $100.

> >> Even the SIM card costs 20 dollars if you don't have an old one to fit.
> >
> > esims are free and carriers give out physical sims for free for older
> > phones that require them.
>
> Do you read anything before you post? Who was talking about ESIMS?

phones have supported esims for several years, which eliminates the
need for a physical sim and any costs that might be associated with
one.

> And who was talking about older phones?

you were, claiming that the older phone had the wrong size sim, forcing
someone to buy a new sim for $20.

if someone had a very old phone (a decade or so), the carrier will
replace it with a new nano sim.

> You seem to be intent on making accessory costs disappear when they exist.

nope. you are intent on adding costs when none exist.

> > it helps to actually understand how things work, otherwise you look
> > stupid, and you wouldn't want to do that, now would you?
>
> No. It helps if YOU actually understand how things work.

yes it does. try it sometime.

> Otherwise you are
> stupid. Don't call me stupid because YOU can't understand what I said.

that's not why many people call you stupid.

In article <tprp9h$11mf$1@gioia.aioe.org>, JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:

>
> >> What good is a new phone, new case, new protector but no SIM card and no
> >> way to charge the phone to the specifications that it's designed for?
> >
> > what a load of bullshit.
> >
> > the iphone 14 family supports up to *eight* esims, which is among the
> > most of any phone (if not the most), with two sims being active at any
> > given time. it can also easily be charged from any of the billions of
> > existing chargers and cables people already have.
>
> Do you read anything before you respond to it?
>
> Nobody said anything about ESIMS.

only because you haven't any clue how things work, and not just about
this either.

esims are far more convenient and are replacing physical sims. apple
has been activating esims for iphones for nearly two years, along with
other carriers to varying degrees. in fact, esims are so popular that
the iphone 14 family doesn't support physical sims anymore in the usa
(where you are).

> You don't seem to understand SIM cards
> can come in different sizes which is why I said what I said about them.

they've been nano-sized for about a decade, so there won't be any issue
with swapping a sim.

they are also being replaced with esims.

> Educate yourself on SIM cards please before you reply without even reading

take your own advice, and not just about sim cards. there's so much you
don't understand.

> what I said. It wasn't all about SIM cards anyway.

yes it was. you're fixated on this mythical $20 fee for a physical sim
that is not needed.

> That was just one cost
> which the spreadsheet ignored. There were plenty of other ignored costs
> such as the cost of a charger which is designed for that phone's spec.

there were not.

> What about the cost of the insurance plan or at least one typical repair?

what about it? that's not part of ownership costs.

In article <0001HW.2971952900592CF570001018F38F@news.supernews.com>,
WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

> I have a large collection of Lightening accessories, mostly for company
> devices. The company is in no great hurry to replace those accessories. They
> will if a lot of users go USB C, but Accounting won¹t like it. I figure
> that we¹ll be mostly Lightening at work for years, and the replacements
> will be due to attrition.

exactly the situation for most users, not just corporate.

the install base of lightning cables and accessories for more than 1
billion devices is *huge*.

On 2023-01-13, JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:
> On 13 Jan 2023 02:34:16 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> Are you actually trying to suggest I haven't been able to connect my
>> new iPhone to the cellular network or charge it since I bought it?
>> What kind of dumb ass are you?
>
> Calling me a "dumb ass" doesn't make you understand

I understand that I connect to my cellular network and charge my new
iPhone every day without issue, dumb ass.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 1/13/2023 5:20 AM, JAB wrote:

<snip>

> On the SIM cards, what I said was "Even the SIM card costs 20 dollars if
> you don't have an old one to fit" which is what YOU did not understand.

Again, not sure what country you are in, but in the U.S., there is
generally little to no cost for a SIM card. The carriers give them out
for free.

If you are signing up with an existing phone, on a prepaid carrier,
sometimes there is a small charge for a SIM card if you purchase it in a
retail store, generally $1-2, sometimes $5, see
<https://www.target.com/s?searchTerm=SIM+card> but the MVNO will usually
send you one at no cost. The biggest prepaid carrier, Verizon's
assortment of Tracfone brands, technically doesn't allow using an old
SIM card in a new phone--if you bring your own new phone you are
supposed to get a new SIM card, and the new phones they sell all come
with a SIM card.

It's cases, screen protectors, and cables, where you can spend a
considerable amount of money if you buy them at the carrier's store or
at a big box electronics store like Best Buy. A basic case will be about
$20 for the same case you could buy for $1.25-$1.75 at a store like
Daiso or Dollar Tree.

Here's a basic iPhone case from Verizon for an iPhone 12:
<https://www.verizon.com/products/evutec-karbon-silicone-ultra-thin-case-for-iphone-12-iphone-12-pro/?sku=sku4620296>.
$14.99.

Here's a basic iPhone case from Dollar Tree for a iPhone 12:
<https://www.dollartree.com/clam-phone-cases-for-iphones-12-6x3125-in/330958>
$1.25

Here's an iPhone 12 screen protector from Verizon:
<https://www.verizon.com/products/verizon-blue-light-tempered-glass-screen-protector-iphone-12-iphone-12-pro/?sku=sku4340293>
$19.98

Here's an iPhone 12 screen protector from Dollar Tree:
<https://www.dollartree.com/glass-screen-protectors-for-iphones-12-and-12pro/332296>
$1.25.

As I pointed out in the TCO document, you'll find only iPhone
after-market accessories at the retail stores like Daiso, Dollar Tree,
etc., because iPhones are the most popular devices and there's not that
many different models (and some models use the same accessories). For
Android, even just for Samsung, there are 17 different Galaxy devices
<https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/phones/all-phones/?carrier=Unlocked+by+Samsung>.

Of course there are some phone purchasers that are not price-sensitive,
or aware of how much this kind of stuff costs when purchased from Amazon
or a vendor on eBay or AliExpress, or in other retail stores.

On 1/13/2023 5:33 AM, WolfFan wrote:

<snip>

> I have a large collection of Lightening accessories, mostly for company
> devices. The company is in no great hurry to replace those accessories. They
> will if a lot of users go USB C, but Accounting won’t like it. I figure
> that we’ll be mostly Lightening at work for years, and the replacements
> will be due to attrition.

I doubt if accounting will care very much.

My wife's employer provides thousands of iPhones to employees with
upgrades required every two-three years. Employees can choose which
iPhone they want. Accessories are provided. Android devices are not an
option since there are custom iPhone-only apps that they install. IT has
no desire to complicate things.

I expect that they are getting a pretty good deal from Apple on all the
stuff they buy. Some of the accessories they give out are not from Apple
because they are not items Apple sells, but if Apple does have the
accessory type then they use the Apple product. The cost of these
accessories is really lost in the noise in a company with billions in
revenue and billions in profits (or even millions in profits).

Remember, new iPhones come with a USB-C to USB-C cable. Many users of
recent models iPhones already have a USB-C charger so there will be no
extra cost for another USB-C charger unless they want one that is
capable of faster charging.

On 1/13/2023 6:19 AM, JAB wrote:

<snip>

> Nobody said anything about ESIMS. You don't seem to understand SIM cards
> can come in different sizes which is why I said what I said about them.

There are probably zero phones being sold with anything other than nano
SIM cards. There are also probably close to zero existing phones in use
that use anything other than nano SIM cards.

In any case, in the U.S., if you buy a new phone from a carrier it comes
with a SIM card. If you need a new SIM card they are free for the asking
from postpaid carriers, and may cost $1-5 for prepaid carriers (if you
buy one in a retail store).

Not sure what country you are in, it may be different where you live.