Hi.

Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF files.
Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I look for
a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just let the
PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?

The PDF files will be created on the fly just for the printout. And
the reason is that the "ReportLab" module in Python has barcode support
and I have not found any other simple way to create and print barcodes
on a laser printer without going to some external windows/linux
label/form processing software. But that only complicates the setup.

Well, I just also looked at a kit "barcode" in the freeware kit and
that can create PCL files having graphic commands to create barcodes.
But with ReportLab it is easier to combine barcodes with other
objects such as regular text on the same page.

Any ideas are welcome...

Regards, Jan-Erik.

On 2022-03-01 17:16:38 +0000, Jan-Erik Sderholm said:

> Or is it simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?

DCPS is effectively what OpenVMS calls its printer driver kit, with
some parts mixed into TCP/IP Services.

Printers can increasingly correctly recognize the arriving print
format, so the usual first test is a direct send via whichever of
LPR/LPD or telnetsym works with the printer, and only then Postscript
via DCPS.

IPP/IPPS would usually be preferred as it avoids the need for
printer-specific drivers, but that's not (yet?) an option on OpenVMS.

Tossing the document at the raw (9100) port *might* work, though
OpenVMS doesn't provide a tool for that, and you'll have difficulty
with paper and tray selections, etc.

Related:

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/d33o-PBctjo/m/H7CzqtHjAQAJ

https://www.nls.com/products/products_content.html

--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC

Den 2022-03-01 kl. 18:58, skrev Stephen Hoffman:
> On 2022-03-01 17:16:38 +0000, Jan-Erik Sderholm said:
>
>> Or is it simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>
> DCPS is effectively what OpenVMS calls its printer driver kit, with some
> parts mixed into TCP/IP Services.
>
> Printers can increasingly correctly recognize the arriving print format, so
> the usual first test is a direct send via whichever of LPR/LPD or telnetsym
> works with the printer, and only then Postscript via DCPS.
>
> IPP/IPPS would usually be preferred as it avoids the need for
> printer-specific drivers, but that's not (yet?) an option on OpenVMS.
>

Is that why need to mention that option?
That is doesn't exist on OpenVMS?

> Tossing the document at the raw (9100) port *might* work, though OpenVMS
> doesn't provide a tool for that...

Ah, right, I forgot that obvious and simple solution...

$ COPY <file> <TNA-device> works just fine.

The issue is with coordination if it is a printer shared
with other printing environments. But in this case I do not
think it will be sheared so that might work fine.

> and you'll have difficulty with paper and
> tray selections, etc.

Not worse than to accept defaults in the printer.

>
> Related:
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/d33o-PBctjo/m/H7CzqtHjAQAJ
>
> https://www.nls.com/products/products_content.html
>
>

On 2022-03-01 18:52:17 +0000, Jan-Erik Sderholm said:

> Den 2022-03-01 kl. 18:58, skrev Stephen Hoffman:
>> On 2022-03-01 17:16:38 +0000, Jan-Erik Sderholm said:
>>
>>> Or is it simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>>
>> DCPS is effectively what OpenVMS calls its printer driver kit, with
>> some parts mixed into TCP/IP Services.
>>
>> Printers can increasingly correctly recognize the arriving print
>> format, so the usual first test is a direct send via whichever of
>> LPR/LPD or telnetsym works with the printer, and only then Postscript
>> via DCPS.
>>
>> IPP/IPPS would usually be preferred as it avoids the need for
>> printer-specific drivers, but that's not (yet?) an option on OpenVMS.
>>
>
> Is that why need to mention that option?
> That is doesn't exist on OpenVMS?

You're not the only one reading postings here.

And my bad: IPP does exist for OpenVMS, as part of Process Multinet.

Should VSI decide to overhaul OpenVMS printing support, IPPS will
almost certainly be part of that work.

Related:

https://istopwg.github.io/ippsample/

--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC

On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:16:42 AM UTC-8, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF files.
> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I look for
> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just let the
> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?

As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.

Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.

Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?

On 01/03/2022 21:50, Stephen Hoffman wrote:
> On 2022-03-01 18:52:17 +0000, Jan-Erik Sderholm said:
>
>> Den 2022-03-01 kl. 18:58, skrev Stephen Hoffman:
>>> On 2022-03-01 17:16:38 +0000, Jan-Erik Sderholm said:
>>>
>>>> Or is it simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb
>>>> or such?
>>>
>>> DCPS is effectively what OpenVMS calls its printer driver kit, with
>>> some parts mixed into TCP/IP Services.
>>>
>>> Printers can increasingly correctly recognize the arriving print
>>> format, so the usual first test is a direct send via whichever of
>>> LPR/LPD or telnetsym works with the printer, and only then Postscript
>>> via DCPS.
>>>
>>> IPP/IPPS would usually be preferred as it avoids the need for
>>> printer-specific drivers, but that's not (yet?) an option on OpenVMS.
>>>
>>
>> Is that why need to mention that option?
>> That is doesn't exist on OpenVMS?
>
> You're not the only one reading postings here.
>
> And my bad: IPP does exist for OpenVMS, as part of Process Multinet.
>
> Should VSI decide to overhaul OpenVMS printing support, IPPS will almost
> certainly be part of that work.
>
> Related:
>
> https://istopwg.github.io/ippsample/
>
>
Mark Berryman of this parish published an IPP Utility last April. Look
for a thread titled 'IPP utiltiy' (sic)

I got this working, with some help, connecting to a home HP inkjet
connected to a raspberry pi.

--
Chris

In article <7921c9dc-3489-4673-83fa-1a5db6229f7an@googlegroups.com>,
gah4 <gah4@u.washington.edu> writes:

> > Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF files.

I asked some similar questions here almost a year ago. In the end, I
went for a Brother LED printer. It will print PDF but (as far as I can
figure out) not from VMS (but trying results in a message saying that
directly printing PDF is not supported, so it knows that it is a PDF
file). From Apple devices it prints PDF fine. It does print PostScript
directly. Since all PDF files I produce on VMS come from PostScript, I
can just print the PostScript. Other PDF files I can print from the
iPad (if on VMS, just access it via a web browser).

> As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.

Yes, but also compressed.

> Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
> PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.

Or GhostScript:

$ IF P1 .EQS. "" THEN GOTO USAGE
$ IF F$PARSE(P1,,,"TYPE") .EQS. "." THEN P1 = P1 + ".PS"
$ IF P2 .EQS. "" THEN P2 = F$PARSE(P1,,,"NAME") + ".PDF"
$ IF F$PARSE(P2,,,"TYPE") .EQS. "." THEN P2 = P2 + ".PDF"
$ GS "-dNOPAUSE" "-sDEVICE=pdfwrite" "-dBATCH" "-sOutputFile=''P2'" 'P1'
$ EXIT
$USAGE:
$ TYPE SYS$INPUT

P1: PostScript file (required), default type .PS
P2: PDF file (optional), default type .PDF, default name <name_of_P1>.PDF
$ EXIT

> Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?

My wife bought a (now defunct) cheap Canon bubblejet printer which
printed PDF fine but I couldn't figure out how to print PostScript on
it.

On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:52:20 PM UTC-5, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>
> Ah, right, I forgot that obvious and simple solution...
>
> $ COPY <file> <TNA-device> works just fine.
>

If copying to a TNA device works, just do something like:

$ INIT/QUEUE/DEVICE=<TNA-device> MYQUE

On 03/01/22 23:05, gah4 wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:16:42 AM UTC-8, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>
>> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF files.
>> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I look for
>> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just let the
>> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
>> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>
> As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.
>
> Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
> PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.
>
> Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?

One thing that might solve the problem long term would be to port
cups. Pretty foolproof and works out of the box on all the systems
and os's tried here. Just about every printer model supported as well.

You could argue that it's not the os's task to process pdf or any
other format, other than transparently passing the data. Pdf should be
handled by the pdf reader itself, as with most systems these days...

Chris

Den 2022-03-02 kl. 16:08, skrev chris:
> On 03/01/22 23:05, gah4 wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:16:42 AM UTC-8, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>
>>> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF files.
>>> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I look for
>>> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just let the
>>> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
>>> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>>
>> As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.
>>
>> Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
>> PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.
>>
>> Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?
>
> One thing that might solve the problem long term would be to port
> cups. Pretty foolproof and works out of the box on all the systems
> and os's tried here. Just about every printer model supported as well.
>
> You could argue that it's not the os's task to process pdf or any
> other format, other than transparently passing the data. Pdf should be
> handled by the pdf reader itself, as with most systems these days...

What "PDF reader"? Are you talking about the/a printer?

>
> Chris

Den 2022-03-02 kl. 14:04, skrev John Vottero:
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:52:20 PM UTC-5, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>
>> Ah, right, I forgot that obvious and simple solution...
>>
>> $ COPY <file> <TNA-device> works just fine.
>>
>
> If copying to a TNA device works, just do something like:
>
> $ INIT/QUEUE/DEVICE=<TNA-device> MYQUE
>

If copying to a TNA device works, I do not need the queue.

On 03/02/22 15:21, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 16:08, skrev chris:
>> On 03/01/22 23:05, gah4 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:16:42 AM UTC-8, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>
>>>> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF
>>>> files.
>>>> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I look for
>>>> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just let the
>>>> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
>>>> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>>>
>>> As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.
>>>
>>> Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
>>> PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.
>>>
>>> Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?
>>
>> One thing that might solve the problem long term would be to port
>> cups. Pretty foolproof and works out of the box on all the systems
>> and os's tried here. Just about every printer model supported as well.
>>
>> You could argue that it's not the os's task to process pdf or any
>> other format, other than transparently passing the data. Pdf should be
>> handled by the pdf reader itself, as with most systems these days...
>
> What "PDF reader"? Are you talking about the/a printer?
>
>
>>
>> Chris
>

The reader is an application, either the free acrobat from Adobe, or in
use here, the Foxit reader, also free. They do paid for apps that
will edit exiting pdf files. Found that very useful where a pdf based
form is to be filled in. Similar utils exist for unix, linux etc. The
formatting for the printer is done within the app, and just talks to
the printer via the os printer driver...

Chris

Den 2022-03-02 kl. 11:56, skrev Phillip Helbig (undress to reply):
> In article <7921c9dc-3489-4673-83fa-1a5db6229f7an@googlegroups.com>,
> gah4 <gah4@u.washington.edu> writes:
>
>>> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF files.
>
> I asked some similar questions here almost a year ago. In the end, I
> went for a Brother LED printer. It will print PDF but (as far as I can
> figure out) not from VMS (but trying results in a message saying that
> directly printing PDF is not supported, so it knows that it is a PDF
> file).

OK. Then it does *not* "print PDF". And you should not expect that
if the printer data sheet specifically lists "PDF" as accepted
printing languages.

> From Apple devices it prints PDF fine.

Well... The Apple printer *driver* understand PDF and converts to
the printer language the printer uses. Not at all the same thing.

> My wife bought a (now defunct) cheap Canon bubblejet printer which
> printed PDF fine but I couldn't figure out how to print PostScript on
> it.

That *printer* did probably not support either PS or PDF. The printer
driver convert a PDF document to whatever the printer uses. And a
PS file is probably just regarded as "text".

You are mixing up the printer with the printer driver in the host OS.

>

Den 2022-03-02 kl. 16:27, skrev chris:
> On 03/02/22 15:21, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 16:08, skrev chris:
>>> On 03/01/22 23:05, gah4 wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:16:42 AM UTC-8, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF
>>>>> files.
>>>>> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I look for
>>>>> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just let the
>>>>> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
>>>>> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>>>>
>>>> As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.
>>>>
>>>> Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
>>>> PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.
>>>>
>>>> Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?
>>>
>>> One thing that might solve the problem long term would be to port
>>> cups. Pretty foolproof and works out of the box on all the systems
>>> and os's tried here. Just about every printer model supported as well.
>>>
>>> You could argue that it's not the os's task to process pdf or any
>>> other format, other than transparently passing the data. Pdf should be
>>> handled by the pdf reader itself, as with most systems these days...
>>
>> What "PDF reader"? Are you talking about the/a printer?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Chris
>>
>
> The reader is an application, either the free acrobat from Adobe, or in
> use here, the Foxit reader, also free. They do paid for apps that
> will edit exiting pdf files. Found that very useful where a pdf based
> form is to be filled in. Similar utils exist for unix, linux etc. The
> formatting for the printer is done within the app, and just talks to
> the printer via the os printer driver...
>
> Chris
>

What has that to do with getting a PDF file out on a printer from a
batch routine on an OpenVMS system?

Why do you think that I do not know what an *normal* PDF reader is?

On 03/02/22 15:32, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 16:27, skrev chris:
>> On 03/02/22 15:21, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 16:08, skrev chris:
>>>> On 03/01/22 23:05, gah4 wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:16:42 AM UTC-8, Jan-Erik Söderholm
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF
>>>>>> files.
>>>>>> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I
>>>>>> look for
>>>>>> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just let the
>>>>>> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
>>>>>> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>>>>>
>>>>> As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
>>>>> PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?
>>>>
>>>> One thing that might solve the problem long term would be to port
>>>> cups. Pretty foolproof and works out of the box on all the systems
>>>> and os's tried here. Just about every printer model supported as well.
>>>>
>>>> You could argue that it's not the os's task to process pdf or any
>>>> other format, other than transparently passing the data. Pdf should be
>>>> handled by the pdf reader itself, as with most systems these days...
>>>
>>> What "PDF reader"? Are you talking about the/a printer?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>
>>
>> The reader is an application, either the free acrobat from Adobe, or in
>> use here, the Foxit reader, also free. They do paid for apps that
>> will edit exiting pdf files. Found that very useful where a pdf based
>> form is to be filled in. Similar utils exist for unix, linux etc. The
>> formatting for the printer is done within the app, and just talks to
>> the printer via the os printer driver...
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
> What has that to do with getting a PDF file out on a printer from a
> batch routine on an OpenVMS system?
>

I just assume that vms would have the sort of common sense utilities
that most of the mainstream world has taken for granted for decades
now, but perhaps i'm wrong.

>
> Why do you think that I do not know what an *normal* PDF reader is?
>
>

Well, you did ask the question as to what I meant, so I explained it
to you, I'm sorry if you don't like the answer and not casting
aspersions, but angry mode doesn't solve anything...

Chris

>
>

On 3/2/22 10:08, chris wrote:
> On 03/01/22 23:05, gah4 wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:16:42 AM UTC-8, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>
>>> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF
>>> files.
>>> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I look for
>>> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just let the
>>> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
>>> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>>
>> As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.
>>
>> Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
>> PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.
>>
>> Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?
>
> One thing that might solve the problem long term would be to port
> cups. Pretty foolproof and works out of the box on all the systems
> and os's tried here. Just about every printer model supported as well.
>
> You could argue that it's not the os's task to process pdf or any
> other format, other than transparently passing the data. Pdf should be
> handled by the pdf reader itself, as with most systems these days...
>

Who would argue that? Most of us remember when printers were just
dumb boxes. Used to have to put a loop of punched paper tape in just
so it could find the beginning of the page!

bill

On 03/02/22 15:40, chris wrote:
> On 03/02/22 15:32, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 16:27, skrev chris:
>>> On 03/02/22 15:21, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 16:08, skrev chris:
>>>>> On 03/01/22 23:05, gah4 wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:16:42 AM UTC-8, Jan-Erik Söderholm
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF
>>>>>>> files.
>>>>>>> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I
>>>>>>> look for
>>>>>>> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just let
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
>>>>>>> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
>>>>>> PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing that might solve the problem long term would be to port
>>>>> cups. Pretty foolproof and works out of the box on all the systems
>>>>> and os's tried here. Just about every printer model supported as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could argue that it's not the os's task to process pdf or any
>>>>> other format, other than transparently passing the data. Pdf should be
>>>>> handled by the pdf reader itself, as with most systems these days...
>>>>
>>>> What "PDF reader"? Are you talking about the/a printer?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>
>>> The reader is an application, either the free acrobat from Adobe, or in
>>> use here, the Foxit reader, also free. They do paid for apps that
>>> will edit exiting pdf files. Found that very useful where a pdf based
>>> form is to be filled in. Similar utils exist for unix, linux etc. The
>>> formatting for the printer is done within the app, and just talks to
>>> the printer via the os printer driver...
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>
>> What has that to do with getting a PDF file out on a printer from a
>> batch routine on an OpenVMS system?
> >
>
> I just assume that vms would have the sort of common sense utilities
> that most of the mainstream world has taken for granted for decades
> now, but perhaps i'm wrong.
>
>>
>> Why do you think that I do not know what an *normal* PDF reader is?
>>
>>
>
> Well, you did ask the question as to what I meant, so I explained it
> to you, I'm sorry if you don't like the answer and not casting
> aspersions, but angry mode doesn't solve anything...
>
> Chris
>

Anyway, this gets away from the points I was trying to make, which are
one: Is there a dedicated pdf reader available for vms; and two, how
easy would it be to port the cups printing subsystem to vms, which has
in built printing support for just about every printer known to man,
much as the Windows printer subsystem has ?...

Chris

On 3/2/22 10:21, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 14:04, skrev John Vottero:
>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:52:20 PM UTC-5, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>
>>> Ah, right, I forgot that obvious and simple solution...
>>>
>>> $ COPY <file> <TNA-device> works just fine.
>>>
>>
>> If copying to a TNA device works, just do something like:
>>
>> $ INIT/QUEUE/DEVICE=<TNA-device> MYQUE
>>
>
> If copying to a TNA device works, I do not need the queue.

I believe the idea of using a QUEUE is to prevent the possibility
of conflicting print jobs.

bill

On 03/02/22 15:53, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 3/2/22 10:08, chris wrote:
>> On 03/01/22 23:05, gah4 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:16:42 AM UTC-8, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>
>>>> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF
>>>> files.
>>>> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I look for
>>>> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just let the
>>>> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
>>>> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>>>
>>> As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.
>>>
>>> Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
>>> PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.
>>>
>>> Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?
>>
>> One thing that might solve the problem long term would be to port
>> cups. Pretty foolproof and works out of the box on all the systems
>> and os's tried here. Just about every printer model supported as well.
>>
>> You could argue that it's not the os's task to process pdf or any
>> other format, other than transparently passing the data. Pdf should be
>> handled by the pdf reader itself, as with most systems these days...
>>
>
> Who would argue that? Most of us remember when printers were just
> dumb boxes. Used to have to put a loop of punched paper tape in just
> so it could find the beginning of the page!
>
> bill
>
>

Different world now, isn't it ?. Similar problems with terminals on
unix, where the termcap file could be megabytes of special control
character sequences. As I said, the os cups system is very flexible
and keeps all the printer specific stuff in one place where it
belongs, but like the termcap example, is quite bulky because of the
myriad of printer types. No easy way around that I guess.
Can also be managed with a browser for setups and monitoring as well.

Might be worth looking at for vms.

Chris

On 3/2/22 11:05, chris wrote:
> On 03/02/22 15:53, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> On 3/2/22 10:08, chris wrote:
>>> On 03/01/22 23:05, gah4 wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:16:42 AM UTC-8, Jan-Erik Söderholm
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF
>>>>> files.
>>>>> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I look
>>>>> for
>>>>> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just let the
>>>>> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
>>>>> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>>>>
>>>> As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.
>>>>
>>>> Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
>>>> PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.
>>>>
>>>> Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?
>>>
>>> One thing that might solve the problem long term would be to port
>>> cups. Pretty foolproof and works out of the box on all the systems
>>> and os's tried here. Just about every printer model supported as well.
>>>
>>> You could argue that it's not the os's task to process pdf or any
>>> other format, other than transparently passing the data. Pdf should be
>>> handled by the pdf reader itself, as with most systems these days...
>>>
>>
>> Who would argue that? Most of us remember when printers were just
>> dumb boxes. Used to have to put a loop of punched paper tape in just
>> so it could find the beginning of the page!
>>
>> bill
>>
>>
>
> Different world now, isn't it ?. Similar problems with terminals on
> unix, where the termcap file could be megabytes of special control
> character sequences. As I said, the os cups system is very flexible
> and keeps all the printer specific stuff in one place where it
> belongs, but like the termcap example, is quite bulky because of the
> myriad  of printer types. No easy way around that I guess.
> Can also be managed with a browser for setups and monitoring as well.
>
> Might be worth looking at for vms.
>

Or buying a $35 Raspberry Pi 2 and building a simple printer engine
sit between VMS and whatever printer you have.

bill

Den 2022-03-02 kl. 16:40, skrev chris:
> On 03/02/22 15:32, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 16:27, skrev chris:
>>> On 03/02/22 15:21, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 16:08, skrev chris:
>>>>> On 03/01/22 23:05, gah4 wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:16:42 AM UTC-8, Jan-Erik Söderholm
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF
>>>>>>> files.
>>>>>>> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I
>>>>>>> look for
>>>>>>> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just let the
>>>>>>> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
>>>>>>> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As well as I know it, PDF is a subset of PS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Enough of a subset that there is an automated process to convert
>>>>>> PDF into PS, and the program pdftops to do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are there printers that support PDF, but not PS?
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing that might solve the problem long term would be to port
>>>>> cups. Pretty foolproof and works out of the box on all the systems
>>>>> and os's tried here. Just about every printer model supported as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could argue that it's not the os's task to process pdf or any
>>>>> other format, other than transparently passing the data. Pdf should be
>>>>> handled by the pdf reader itself, as with most systems these days...
>>>>
>>>> What "PDF reader"? Are you talking about the/a printer?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>
>>> The reader is an application, either the free acrobat from Adobe, or in
>>> use here, the Foxit reader, also free. They do paid for apps that
>>> will edit exiting pdf files. Found that very useful where a pdf based
>>> form is to be filled in. Similar utils exist for unix, linux etc. The
>>> formatting for the printer is done within the app, and just talks to
>>> the printer via the os printer driver...
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>
>> What has that to do with getting a PDF file out on a printer from a
>> batch routine on an OpenVMS system?
> >
>
> I just assume that vms would have the sort of common sense utilities
> that most of the mainstream world has taken for granted for decades
> now, but perhaps i'm wrong.

You do not know what you are talking about.

>
>>
>> Why do you think that I do not know what an *normal* PDF reader is?
>>
>
> Well, you did ask the question as to what I meant,

No, I asked why you bring "PDF readers" to the discussion at all.

A "PDF reader" implies that there is a user available. There is not.
This is a background routine run as a batch job. If there was a user
that could run a PDF reader, I would never had asked.

Den 2022-03-02 kl. 16:56, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
> On 3/2/22 10:21, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 14:04, skrev John Vottero:
>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 1:52:20 PM UTC-5, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ah, right, I forgot that obvious and simple solution...
>>>>
>>>> $ COPY <file> <TNA-device> works just fine.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If copying to a TNA device works, just do something like:
>>>
>>> $ INIT/QUEUE/DEVICE=<TNA-device> MYQUE
>>>
>>
>> If copying to a TNA device works, I do not need the queue.
>
> I believe the idea of using a QUEUE is to prevent the possibility
> of conflicting print jobs.
>
> bill
>

Sure, if there was, I would have used a queue.

Is your primary goal to print PDF's or to print barcodes?

On 3/1/2022 11:16 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Hi.
>
> Some of the Xerox laser printer models support direct print of PDF files.

All business-grade laser's I've worked with for the past couple of
decades have either built-in or add-on barcode fonts. Printing barcodes
is no more difficult than switching between any other fonts.

Xerox has barcode font kits that install in the printer, so maybe look
at those.

> Now, we uses DCPS för most of our printing needs. So, should I look for
> a way to setup a DCPS queue that will be transparent and just let the
> PDF file through (DCPS itself dosn't support PDF input)? Or is it
> simpler to just setup a queue using the telnetsym, lpd_smb or such?

Unless you need a PDF file for some reason other than just printing a
form, why bother? Let the printer do the work.
>
> The PDF files will be created on the fly just for the printout. And
> the reason is that the "ReportLab" module in Python has barcode support
> and I have not found any other simple way to create and print barcodes
> on a laser printer without going to some external windows/linux
> label/form processing software. But that only complicates the setup.

I don't know "ReportLab" but if it lets you switch fonts, then printing
a barcode is no harder than switching between any fonts. You would need
to set its height, width, stroke, etc., just like any other font.

>
> Well, I just also looked at a kit "barcode" in the freeware kit and
> that can create PCL files having graphic commands to create barcodes.
> But with ReportLab it is easier to combine barcodes with other
> objects such as regular text on the same page.

I've never needed to use them but there are programs that will convert
other file types (.doc, .ps, ?) to PCL.

Since you have Windows involved anyway, maybe you can find one of those
that will work for you. Other than interfacing with an EasyLabel
operation on Windows, all of my other barcode forms were born on and
live on VMS.

The PDF step just seems like more work than needed.

>
> Any ideas are welcome...
>

I use a TCPIP$TELNETSYSM queue with the appropriate device definitions
and setting as needed, such as:
$ DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPIP$TELNETSYM_RAW_TCP 1
$ DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPIP$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS 35

I use a queue because it's easier to "automate" the print job(s) and
this printer is used for more than just one form and by more than one
person. i.e.,

$ INITIALIZE /QUEUE /START /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE) -
/PROCESSOR=TCPIP$TELNETSYM /ON="192.168.1.122:9100" -
/DEFAULT=(NOBURST,NOFLAG,NOFEED,NOTRAILER,FORM=DEFAULT) quename

The IP address is usually defined by a logical but that's the way it looks.

I never tried using DCPS for this so I don't know how that would work.

> Regards, Jan-Erik.

Doug

On 2022-03-02, chris <chris-nospam@tridac.net> wrote:
>
> The reader is an application, either the free acrobat from Adobe, or in
> use here, the Foxit reader, also free. They do paid for apps that
> will edit exiting pdf files. Found that very useful where a pdf based
> form is to be filled in. Similar utils exist for unix, linux etc. The
> formatting for the printer is done within the app, and just talks to
> the printer via the os printer driver...
>

Everyone here knows about those utilities Chris, but what you are
missing is that you are assuming some manual process where people
manually open every PDF on a PC before manually printing it.

That is simply not how it works in many corporate workflows.

In many business cases, complex documents are created automatically by
a program (invoicing/statements, etc) and then printed automatically as
part of a batch run without any human ever been involved in the process.

I've actually generated barcodes in the distant past on VMS as part
of generating batches of documents automatically. IIRC, I did it by
generating PCL to draw the boxes on the documents and the documents
were sent to laser printers controlled by DCPS.

No third party utilities were involved. Code 39 (for example) is very
well documented:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_39

There are other encoding standards which are also well documented.
All you need now is to dust off your PCL programming skills. :-)

(Or these days, just use a printer with a barcode font. :-))

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

On 2022-03-02, Jan-Erik Söderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> wrote:
> Den 2022-03-02 kl. 11:56, skrev Phillip Helbig (undress to reply):
>> My wife bought a (now defunct) cheap Canon bubblejet printer which
>> printed PDF fine but I couldn't figure out how to print PostScript on
>> it.
>
> That *printer* did probably not support either PS or PDF. The printer
> driver convert a PDF document to whatever the printer uses. And a
> PS file is probably just regarded as "text".
>
> You are mixing up the printer with the printer driver in the host OS.
>

Indeed. On Linux, back when I was using inkjets, the dumb PCL-only
inkjet was also a nice Postscript printer thanks to Ghostscript. :-)

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.