And if the EU do it, most probably everywhere else will as well, because
they are among the biggest trading blocks in the world, and likely it
won't make economic sense for manufacturers to make phones with
different charging sockets around the world if they don't have to ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809

"EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones

Manufacturers will be forced to create a universal charging solution for
phones and small electronic devices, under a new rule proposed by the
European Commission (EC).

The aim is to reduce waste by encouraging consumers to re-use existing
chargers when buying a new device.

All smartphones sold in the EU must have USB-C chargers, the proposal said.

Apple has warned such a move would harm innovation.

The tech giant is the main manufacturer of smartphones using a custom
charging port, as its iPhone series uses an Apple-made "Lightning"
connector.

"We remain concerned that strict regulation mandating just one type of
connector stifles innovation rather than encouraging it, which in turn
will harm consumers in Europe and around the world," the firm told the BBC.

It added that it aims to make every Apple device and usage carbon
neutral by 2030.

Most Android phones come with USB micro-B charging ports, or have
already moved to the more modern USB-C standard."

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Am 24.09.21 um 13:13 schrieb Java Jive:
> Most Android phones come with USB micro-B charging ports, or have
> already moved to the more modern USB-C standard."

Apple is the last obstacle in this process.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> Apple has warned such a move would harm innovation.

Fortunately the EU can resist such nonsense and force Apple to
change it. It has been a long time since Apple introduced useful
innovation, lately they have mainly promoted vendor lock-in.

On 24/09/2021 12:34, Rob wrote:
> Fortunately the EU can resist such nonsense and force Apple to
> change it. It has been a long time since Apple introduced useful
> innovation, lately they have mainly promoted vendor lock-in.

Fortunately?

I am no fan of Apple but it means now that any manufacturer bring out a
new phone, with an improved connector, will have to go through a long
breaucratic process with the EU to get it approved by them - a cynic
might suggest that French and German phones will get approval faster
than anyone else's. This will all cost money and any minor change will
need further approval.

The costs will be passed on to the consumer of course.

It is not as if you need dozens of different leads.

Just of all the other things that they can standardise and employ even
more bureaucrats to enforce it.

At least we are only indirectly affected by this nonsense.

On 24/09/2021 12:18, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 24.09.21 um 13:13 schrieb Java Jive:
>> Most Android phones come with USB micro-B charging ports, or have
>> already moved to the more modern USB-C standard."
> Apple is the last obstacle in this process.
>

Will the EU police be kicking doors down to check people are not using
an unapproved lead?

In uk.telecom.mobile MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 24/09/2021 12:34, Rob wrote:
> > Fortunately the EU can resist such nonsense and force Apple to
> > change it. It has been a long time since Apple introduced useful
> > innovation, lately they have mainly promoted vendor lock-in.
>
> Fortunately?
>
> I am no fan of Apple but it means now that any manufacturer bring out a
> new phone, with an improved connector

When was the last time a manufacturer brought out a phone with an improved
connector, that wasn't USB-C or Apple? Manufacturers are free to do so
outside of the EU - China is a huge market, for example - but I don't see
phones using any other connectors in that market.

> breaucratic process with the EU to get it approved by them - a cynic
> might suggest that French and German phones will get approval faster
> than anyone else's.

What French and German phones?

Theo

On 24/09/2021 13:04, Theo wrote:
>
> In uk.telecom.mobile MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>> On 24/09/2021 12:34, Rob wrote:
>>>
>>> Fortunately the EU can resist such nonsense and force Apple to
>>> change it. It has been a long time since Apple introduced useful
>>> innovation, lately they have mainly promoted vendor lock-in.
>>
>> Fortunately?

Yes, fortunately! Even though we've left the EU, UK market phones will
be standardised as well, because we are too small a market to have
phones with different connectors made especially for the UK, so we will
benefit from this ruling, as, very likely, will the rest of the world.

>> I am no fan of Apple but it means now that any manufacturer bring out a
>> new phone, with an improved connector

Far, far more likely it would have been no better, just different, to
lock customers in to buying more expensive ancillary equipment such as
chargers.

> When was the last time a manufacturer brought out a phone with an improved
> connector, that wasn't USB-C or Apple? Manufacturers are free to do so
> outside of the EU - China is a huge market, for example - but I don't see
> phones using any other connectors in that market.

Exactly.

>> breaucratic process with the EU to get it approved by them - a cynic
>> might suggest that French and German phones will get approval faster
>> than anyone else's.
>
> What French and German phones?

Exactly, this is just the usual anti-EU bigotry, from one of the usual
anti-EU bigots.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 24/09/2021 12:34, Rob wrote:
>> Fortunately the EU can resist such nonsense and force Apple to
>> change it. It has been a long time since Apple introduced useful
>> innovation, lately they have mainly promoted vendor lock-in.
>
> Fortunately?
>
> I am no fan of Apple but it means now that any manufacturer bring out a
> new phone, with an improved connector, will have to go through a long
> breaucratic process with the EU to get it approved by them - a cynic
> might suggest that French and German phones will get approval faster
> than anyone else's. This will all cost money and any minor change will
> need further approval.

This (or such) rulings are there to prevent manufacturers from making
improved connectors that they claim are innovating, but in reality are
just intended to lock you to them.

When manufacturers are forced to follow a standard, that means that
everything will just inter-operate and you can charge your phone from
the charger of your wife's phone. That is not what Apple wants, Apple
wants your wife to buy an Apple phone as well, or you to buy sufficient
chargers so that you always have one nearby even when you forgot to
bring it. That is what they call innovation, and what others call
waste of resources.

In article <slrnskrhjr.2r9.nomail@xs9.xs4all.nl>, Rob
<nomail@example.com> wrote:

> When manufacturers are forced to follow a standard, that means that
> everything will just inter-operate and you can charge your phone from
> the charger of your wife's phone. That is not what Apple wants, Apple
> wants your wife to buy an Apple phone as well, or you to buy sufficient
> chargers so that you always have one nearby even when you forgot to
> bring it. That is what they call innovation, and what others call
> waste of resources.

apple doesn't care what charger someone uses. any charger that is usb-a
or usb-c will work, same as android and many other devices.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <slrnskrhjr.2r9.nomail@xs9.xs4all.nl>, Rob
> <nomail@example.com> wrote:
>
>> When manufacturers are forced to follow a standard, that means that
>> everything will just inter-operate and you can charge your phone from
>> the charger of your wife's phone. That is not what Apple wants, Apple
>> wants your wife to buy an Apple phone as well, or you to buy sufficient
>> chargers so that you always have one nearby even when you forgot to
>> bring it. That is what they call innovation, and what others call
>> waste of resources.
>
> apple doesn't care what charger someone uses. any charger that is usb-a
> or usb-c will work, same as android and many other devices.
>

There’s a lot of misinformation written about Apple phones. Although they
have a lightning connector they supply a lead that fits into a standard USB
connector. Earlier phones had a lightning to USB-A lead. Later phones have
lightning to USB-C leads supplied (although those phones will still charge
with an older lightning to USB-A cable, so you don’t have to throw any of
your stuff away). Thus you can charge your phone from any standard USB
socketed charger.

Lightning is a much more robust connector than the mini/micro usb sockets
found on other phones.

Lightning to either USB-A or USB-C leads are freely available from third
parties, some of better quality than others.

Am 24.09.21 um 13:34 schrieb Rob:
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>> Apple has warned such a move would harm innovation.
>
> Fortunately the EU can resist such nonsense and force Apple to
> change it. It has been a long time since Apple introduced useful
> innovation, lately they have mainly promoted vendor lock-in.

*SIC*!

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 24.09.21 um 14:37 schrieb Java Jive:
> On 24/09/2021 13:04, Theo wrote:
>> What French and German phones?
>
> Exactly, this is just the usual anti-EU bigotry, from one of the usual
> anti-EU bigots.

+1

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 24.09.21 um 14:53 schrieb nospam:
> In article <slrnskrhjr.2r9.nomail@xs9.xs4all.nl>, Rob
> <nomail@example.com> wrote:
>
>> When manufacturers are forced to follow a standard, that means that
>> everything will just inter-operate and you can charge your phone from
>> the charger of your wife's phone. That is not what Apple wants, Apple
>> wants your wife to buy an Apple phone as well, or you to buy sufficient
>> chargers so that you always have one nearby even when you forgot to
>> bring it. That is what they call innovation, and what others call
>> waste of resources.
>
> apple doesn't care what charger someone uses. any charger that is usb-a
> or usb-c will work, same as android and many other devices.

Stupid. A charger system always has two ends.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 24/09/2021 12:13, Java Jive wrote:
> And if the EU do it, most probably everywhere else will as well, because
> they are among the biggest trading blocks in the world, and likely it
> won't make economic sense for manufacturers to make phones with
> different charging sockets around the world if they don't have to ...
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58665809
>
> "EU rules to force USB-C chargers for all phones
>
> Manufacturers will be forced to create a universal charging solution for
> phones and small electronic devices, under a new rule proposed by the
> European Commission (EC).
>
> The aim is to reduce waste by encouraging consumers to re-use existing
> chargers when buying a new device.
>
> All smartphones sold in the EU must have USB-C chargers, the proposal said.
>
> Apple has warned such a move would harm innovation.
>
> The tech giant is the main manufacturer of smartphones using a custom
> charging port, as its iPhone series uses an Apple-made "Lightning"
> connector.
>
> "We remain concerned that strict regulation mandating just one type of
> connector stifles innovation rather than encouraging it, which in turn
> will harm consumers in Europe and around the world," the firm told the BBC.
>
> It added that it aims to make every Apple device and usage carbon
> neutral by 2030.
>
> Most Android phones come with USB micro-B charging ports, or have
> already moved to the more modern USB-C standard."
>

What a load of cobblers!

Many phones and other devices aren't supplied with chargers anyway -
just a lead with (usually) USB-A at one end and a connector appropriate
to the charging port at the other end. You than plug that into a charger
of your choice. Is it a real hardship to have 3 cables - or one cable
with 3 alternative ends?

Some chargers supplied with USB-C devices are capable of turbo charging,
and negotiate the best rate with the device being charged. If chargers
are to be standardised, does this mean that *all* chargers must have
this ability even when supplied with a device which can't use it? I'm
not sure that they've thought this through!
--
Cheers,
Roger

"Joerg Lorenz" <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote in message
news:sikc5p$m1m$3@dont-email.me...
> Am 24.09.21 um 13:13 schrieb Java Jive:
>> Most Android phones come with USB micro-B charging ports, or have
>> already moved to the more modern USB-C standard."
>
> Apple is the last obstacle in this process.

Apple is the last (but highest) obstacle in *every* process. They cannot see
a standard without ignoring it. Sometimes their solution is better, but
usually it's just different. The Lightning connector is better than Mini-
and Micro-USB because it is rotationally symmetrical - it will fit either
way round. It *may* be better than USB-C in that the vulnerable part - the
thin PCB with contacts on it - is on the plug/lead rather than on the
socket, so it is cheaper and easier to replace if it gets broken. But
everyone else uses Mini/Micro/C, and these are (AFAIK) open standards
without licence fees. I bet if other manufacturers wanted to use Lightning
so it would become a universal standard, Apple would charge money for it -
so that is not the standard that everyone else uses.

There comes a time when it is better for everyone to do it the same and be
compatible, rather than inventing a proprietary standard that is better.

On 9/24/2021 5:53 AM, nospam wrote:

> apple doesn't care what charger someone uses. any charger that is
> usb-a or usb-c will work, same as android and many other devices.

Or none. The Apple phone in my house hasn't been plugged into anything
for many months and works just fine. Same with my Android phone. Nobody
in my household would miss a portless phone of either persuasion...

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> On 9/24/2021 5:53 AM, nospam wrote:
>
>> apple doesn't care what charger someone uses. any charger that is
>> usb-a or usb-c will work, same as android and many other devices.
>
> Or none. The Apple phone in my house hasn't been plugged into anything
> for many months and works just fine. Same with my Android phone. Nobody
> in my household would miss a portless phone of either persuasion...
>

That’s not quite true. There are a number of useful accessories that can be
plugged into the lightning port. Not everything is wireless yet.

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Joerg Lorenz" <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote in message
> news:sikc5p$m1m$3@dont-email.me...
>> Am 24.09.21 um 13:13 schrieb Java Jive:
>>> Most Android phones come with USB micro-B charging ports, or have
>>> already moved to the more modern USB-C standard."
>>
>> Apple is the last obstacle in this process.
>
> Apple is the last (but highest) obstacle in *every* process. They cannot see
> a standard without ignoring it. Sometimes their solution is better, but
> usually it's just different. The Lightning connector is better than Mini-
> and Micro-USB because it is rotationally symmetrical - it will fit either
> way round. It *may* be better than USB-C in that the vulnerable part - the
> thin PCB with contacts on it - is on the plug/lead rather than on the
> socket, so it is cheaper and easier to replace if it gets broken. But
> everyone else uses Mini/Micro/C, and these are (AFAIK) open standards
> without licence fees. I bet if other manufacturers wanted to use Lightning
> so it would become a universal standard, Apple would charge money for it -
> so that is not the standard that everyone else uses.
>
> There comes a time when it is better for everyone to do it the same and be
> compatible, rather than inventing a proprietary standard that is better.
>
>

There is absolutely nothing to stop you plugging an iPhone into a USB-A
charger and their later models can be plugged into a USB-C charger.
Enforcing connector standardisation at the phone end is daft.

On 24/09/2021 15:39, Tweed wrote:
>
> There is absolutely nothing to stop you plugging an iPhone into a USB-A
> charger and their later models can be plugged into a USB-C charger.
> Enforcing connector standardisation at the phone end is daft.

Why? Lots of other such things are standardised, why not that? I'm
still waiting for the EU to standardise book sizes. Have you ever tried
to pack a trunk with books, all of which are different sizes?

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 24/09/2021 15:27, Roger Mills wrote:
>
> Some chargers supplied with USB-C devices are capable of turbo charging,
> and negotiate the best rate with the device being charged. If chargers
> are to be standardised, does this mean that *all* chargers must have
> this ability even when supplied with a device which can't use it? I'm
> not sure that they've thought this through!

Read the article, and you'll find out.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 9/24/2021 7:37 AM, Tweed wrote:
> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>> On 9/24/2021 5:53 AM, nospam wrote:
>>
>>> apple doesn't care what charger someone uses. any charger that
>>> is usb-a or usb-c will work, same as android and many other
>>> devices.
>>
>> Or none. The Apple phone in my house hasn't been plugged into
>> anything for many months and works just fine. Same with my Android
>> phone. Nobody in my household would miss a portless phone of either
>> persuasion...
>>
>
> That’s not quite true.

Course it is. I said: "In MY house". YMMV of course...

> There are a number of useful accessories that can be plugged into the
> lightning port.

> Not everything is wireless yet.

True. And in keeping with the subject, ALL the wireless chargers I can
buy in my area ARE standardized. So I can lay a wireless charging phone
of most ANY persuasion on my chargers. Actually kinda nice...

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 24/09/2021 15:39, Tweed wrote:
>>
>> There is absolutely nothing to stop you plugging an iPhone into a USB-A
>> charger and their later models can be plugged into a USB-C charger.
>> Enforcing connector standardisation at the phone end is daft.
>
> Why? Lots of other such things are standardised, why not that? I'm
> still waiting for the EU to standardise book sizes. Have you ever tried
> to pack a trunk with books, all of which are different sizes?
>

Standardisation is only useful when it serves a purpose that vastly
outweighs any of the potential downsides.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > In article <slrnskrhjr.2r9.nomail@xs9.xs4all.nl>, Rob
> > <nomail@example.com> wrote:
> >
> >> When manufacturers are forced to follow a standard, that means that
> >> everything will just inter-operate and you can charge your phone from
> >> the charger of your wife's phone. That is not what Apple wants, Apple
> >> wants your wife to buy an Apple phone as well, or you to buy sufficient
> >> chargers so that you always have one nearby even when you forgot to
> >> bring it. That is what they call innovation, and what others call
> >> waste of resources.
> >
> > apple doesn't care what charger someone uses. any charger that is usb-a
> > or usb-c will work, same as android and many other devices.
> >
>
> There?s a lot of misinformation written about Apple phones. Although they
> have a lightning connector they supply a lead that fits into a standard USB
> connector. Earlier phones had a lightning to USB-A lead. Later phones have
> lightning to USB-C leads supplied (although those phones will still charge
> with an older lightning to USB-A cable, so you don?t have to throw any of
> your stuff away). Thus you can charge your phone from any standard USB
> socketed charger.

No, there isn't any "misinformation". But there *is* dodging/diverting
from AppleSeeds like nospam.

These EU rules are not about the plug/socket on the *charger* side, but
about the socket on the *device* side, the 'charging port '.

Yes, these 'journalists' often get the 'details' wrong, and that's
also the case in the article mentioned in the OP: "EU rules to force
USB-C chargers for all phones". They don't force USB-C *chargers*, they
force USB-C *charging*/*charging ports*.

At least at one point in the article, they get it (mostly) right:

"The changes would apply to the charging port on the device body,
whereas the end of the cable connecting to a plug could be USB-C or
USB-A."

(See also the two paragraphs befor that paragraph.)

> Lightning is a much more robust connector than the mini/micro usb sockets
> found on other phones.

Most if not all somewhat recent phones have USB-C sockets, not
Micro-USB. (I don't think I've ever seen a Mini-USB port on a
*smart*phone.)

And note that - as the article mentions - "New models of the iPad and
MacBook use USB-C charging ports". So much for "Apple has warned such a
move [to USB-C charging ports] would harm innovation.". Apparently iPads
and MacBooks don't need "innovation".

[...]

AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
> On 9/24/2021 7:37 AM, Tweed wrote:
>> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
>>> On 9/24/2021 5:53 AM, nospam wrote:
>>>
>>>> apple doesn't care what charger someone uses. any charger that
>>>> is usb-a or usb-c will work, same as android and many other
>>>> devices.
>>>
>>> Or none. The Apple phone in my house hasn't been plugged into
>>> anything for many months and works just fine. Same with my Android
>>> phone. Nobody in my household would miss a portless phone of either
>>> persuasion...
>>>
>>
>> That’s not quite true.
>
> Course it is. I said: "In MY house". YMMV of course...
>
>> There are a number of useful accessories that can be plugged into the
>> lightning port.
>
>> Not everything is wireless yet.
>
> True. And in keeping with the subject, ALL the wireless chargers I can
> buy in my area ARE standardized. So I can lay a wireless charging phone
> of most ANY persuasion on my chargers. Actually kinda nice...
>
>

Wireless charging is not very efficient. I’ve just read an article about
charging a Google Pixel. 14W hours for wired charging from flat. 21W hours
for wireless charging.

There’s another downside to wireless charging. It is very much harder to
charge and use your phone at the same time.

Also makes it harder to plug in an external battery pack, though you could
do it with an Apple style magnetic adapter, but then throw away a third of
your external battery’s capacity away due to inefficiency. There’s still a
role for wired charging capability.

On 24/09/2021 13.50, MB wrote:
> On 24/09/2021 12:18, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 24.09.21 um 13:13 schrieb Java Jive:
>>> Most Android phones come with USB micro-B charging ports, or have
>>> already moved to the more modern USB-C standard."
>> Apple is the last obstacle in this process.
>>
>
> Will the EU police be kicking doors down to check people are not using
> an unapproved lead?

Of course not. What an stupid idea.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.