Am 24.09.21 um 17:35 schrieb Alan Baker:
> On 2021-09-24 4:34 a.m., Rob wrote:
>> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>> Apple has warned such a move would harm innovation.
>>
>> Fortunately the EU can resist such nonsense and force Apple to
>> change it. It has been a long time since Apple introduced useful
>> innovation, lately they have mainly promoted vendor lock-in.
>>
>
> You mean other than coming up with the most efficient and powerful
> processors used in phones; so powerful that they're now used for Macs as
> well.

Off topic

> Other than innovations in software to make better pictures.

Certainly not Apple.
Others have long taken the lead.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 2021-09-24 9:31 a.m., Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 24.09.21 um 17:16 schrieb Tweed:
>> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>> Why? Lots of other such things are standardised, why not that? I'm
>>> still waiting for the EU to standardise book sizes. Have you ever tried
>>> to pack a trunk with books, all of which are different sizes?
>>>
>>
>> Standardisation is only useful when it serves a purpose that vastly
>> outweighs any of the potential downsides.
>
> Which is the case on this topic.
>
>

No, actually. It isn't.

Standardization saves you from having to buy one CABLE and that's all.

And as was pointed out elsewhere:

'It’s long been my guess that iPhone is never going to support USB-C. I
think it’s Apple’s intention to go straight from Lightning to
wireless/inductive, with no “port”. Portless is the future for all
devices. Yet the product design geniuses at the European Commission want
to mandate all devices have one specific port in 2024 and indefinitely
thereafter — a port that by that time will already be 10 years old.'

So this standardization will damage innovation.

AJL <noemail@none.com> asked
> Wireless charging time depends on the phone and the charger.
> I'm an overnight charger so have never had a problem.

Nobody puts crappier batteries in a smartphone than does Apple.
And Apple has _never_ put the _correct_ iPhone 12 charger in any iPhone box!

In contrast...

My free Samsung Galaxy A32 5G came with a huge 5AH battery.
And the charger in the box is the _correct_ fast charger for that phone!

>> There's another downside to wireless charging. It is very much harder
>> to charge and use your phone at the same time.
>
> If you're a 24/7 user I can perhaps see the problem. But for me it's
> much easier to just lift the ringing phone from the wireless charger and
> start talking and walking, not being tied to a wall...

I bought an iPhone 12 mini for half price at the same time that I received
the handful of free Samsung Galaxy A32 5G phones and guess what?

*The iPhone 12 is _always_ dead* (the Galaxy last for days and days).

Galaxy:
1. Fast charger in the box
2. Huge battery in the phone

iPhone 12:
1. No charger (so you're stuck 100% with the _wrong_ charger!)
2. Cheap puny battery in the phone

Nobody makes cheaper batteries than does Apple.
(Even the battery boards use cheap components!)

See references in the sig.
>> Also makes it harder to plug in an external battery pack,
>
> I have never had to use an external pack. That would be a PITA IMO.
> Perhaps it's because my phone has a 4,100 mAh battery.

My free Samsung Galaxy A32 5G has a huge 5AH battery.
It fast charges in no time with the free fast charger that came with it.

>> There's still a role for wired charging capability.
>
> Course. But if you're going to be tied to a wall why not just use a
> landline. Battery never goes dead... ;)

Apple _cripples_ the iPhone in every way so that you have to buy more and
more expensive components just to get back all the things Apple removed.
--
*Nobody puts crappier batteries in smartphones than does Apple*
https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/21/21394985/apple-iphone-12-battery-cost-5g-kuo
https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/08/21/apple-to-offset-cost-of-5g-iphone-components-with-cheaper-battery-tech
https://www.maticstoday.com/2020/08/21/why-apple-is-using-cheap-battery-parts-in-iphone-12/
https://9to5mac.com/2020/08/21/kuo-iphone-12-5g-component-cost/
https://www.pcmag.com/news/report-iphone-12-to-use-smaller-cheaper-battery
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/08/20/kuo-iphone-12-battery-board/
https://www.timesnownews.com/technology-science/article/apple-opting-for-cheaper-battery-parts-to-cut-costs-on-5g-iphone-12-analyst-ming-chi-kuo/640657
https://techlog360.com/apple-will-use-cheaper-parts-in-the-iphone-12/

Am 24.09.21 um 17:53 schrieb Java Jive:
> On 24/09/2021 16:35, Alan Baker wrote:
>> Other than innovations in software to make better pictures.
>>
>> Visit Patently Apple some time.
>
> None of this is answer to the accusation of vendor lock-in which is the
> salient point to which you were replying, so this is simply pro-Apple
> bigotry, at the same level of useless irrelevance with the anti-EU
> bigotry of others.

+1
Baker is a notorious Troll and undifferentiated Apple-lickspittle.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 24.09.21 um 18:10 schrieb Alan Baker:
> On 2021-09-24 8:53 a.m., Java Jive wrote:
>> None of this is answer to the accusation of vendor lock-in which is the
>> salient point to which you were replying, so this is simply pro-Apple
>> bigotry, at the same level of useless irrelevance with the anti-EU
>> bigotry of others.
>>
>
> It was a direct answer to the explicit claim that:
>
> "It has been a long time since Apple introduced useful innovation"
>
> That claim is complete and utter bullshit.

It is quite correct. Others have taken the lead long time ago.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 2021-09-24 9:34 a.m., Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 24.09.21 um 17:35 schrieb Alan Baker:
>> On 2021-09-24 4:34 a.m., Rob wrote:
>>> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Apple has warned such a move would harm innovation.
>>>
>>> Fortunately the EU can resist such nonsense and force Apple to
>>> change it. It has been a long time since Apple introduced useful
>>> innovation, lately they have mainly promoted vendor lock-in.
>>>
>>
>> You mean other than coming up with the most efficient and powerful
>> processors used in phones; so powerful that they're now used for Macs as
>> well.
>
> Off topic

So it's not off topic for Rob to claim Apple hasn't produced innovation...

....just to counter his argument.

Got it.

>
>> Other than innovations in software to make better pictures.
>
> Certainly not Apple.
> Others have long taken the lead.

Oh, so it's not "off topic" for you to counter my statements.

Got it.

And you're wrong.

On 2021-09-24 9:38 a.m., Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 24.09.21 um 18:10 schrieb Alan Baker:
>> On 2021-09-24 8:53 a.m., Java Jive wrote:
>>> None of this is answer to the accusation of vendor lock-in which is the
>>> salient point to which you were replying, so this is simply pro-Apple
>>> bigotry, at the same level of useless irrelevance with the anti-EU
>>> bigotry of others.
>>>
>>
>> It was a direct answer to the explicit claim that:
>>
>> "It has been a long time since Apple introduced useful innovation"
>>
>> That claim is complete and utter bullshit.
>
> It is quite correct. Others have taken the lead long time ago.
>
>
>

Sorry, but that's "off topic".

Oh, wait!

It's NEVER "off topic" to bash Apple!

Am 24.09.21 um 18:13 schrieb Alan Baker:
> On 2021-09-24 9:00 a.m., Rob wrote:
>>
>> And to scan the pictures on user's devices to see if they match
>> some pattern...
>
> It's a whole lot more than that.

It is a hole, or even a backdoor?

>> What about innovating devices to the point where they can no longer
>> be repaired, and making sure that any attempt to do so is hindered
>> by unobtainium parts, serialized parts that cannot be swapped, etc.
>> Also one of those worthwile Apple innovations!

The only innovation is to get the fence higher and higher ...

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 2021-09-24 9:37 a.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> AJL <noemail@none.com> asked
>> Wireless charging time depends on the phone and the charger.
>> I'm an overnight charger so have never had a problem.
>
> Nobody puts crappier batteries in a smartphone than does Apple.
> And Apple has _never_ put the _correct_ iPhone 12 charger in any iPhone box!
>
> In contrast...
>
> My free Samsung Galaxy A32 5G came with a huge 5AH battery.
> And the charger in the box is the _correct_ fast charger for that phone!

What makes it "correct"?

>
>>> There's another downside to wireless charging. It is very much harder
>>> to charge and use your phone at the same time.
>>
>> If you're a 24/7 user I can perhaps see the problem. But for me it's
>> much easier to just lift the ringing phone from the wireless charger and
>> start talking and walking, not being tied to a wall...
>
> I bought an iPhone 12 mini for half price at the same time that I received
> the handful of free Samsung Galaxy A32 5G phones and guess what?

The Galaxy A32 is 36% heavier than the iPhone 12 mini?

It has a battery more than twice as large as the iPhone's?

It can't do wireless charging at all?

What else?

>
> *The iPhone 12 is _always_ dead* (the Galaxy last for days and days).

You're lying.

>
> Galaxy:
> 1. Fast charger in the box
> 2. Huge battery in the phone
>
> iPhone 12:
> 1. No charger (so you're stuck 100% with the _wrong_ charger!)
> 2. Cheap puny battery in the phone

So why not use the Galaxy charger?

>
> Nobody makes cheaper batteries than does Apple.
> (Even the battery boards use cheap components!)
>
> See references in the sig.
>>> Also makes it harder to plug in an external battery pack,
>>
>> I have never had to use an external pack. That would be a PITA IMO.
>> Perhaps it's because my phone has a 4,100 mAh battery.
>
> My free Samsung Galaxy A32 5G has a huge 5AH battery.
> It fast charges in no time with the free fast charger that came with it.
>
>>> There's still a role for wired charging capability.
>>
>> Course. But if you're going to be tied to a wall why not just use a
>> landline. Battery never goes dead... ;)
>
> Apple _cripples_ the iPhone in every way so that you have to buy more and
> more expensive components just to get back all the things Apple removed.
>

On 2021-09-24 9:41 a.m., Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 24.09.21 um 18:13 schrieb Alan Baker:
>> On 2021-09-24 9:00 a.m., Rob wrote:
>>>
>>> And to scan the pictures on user's devices to see if they match
>>> some pattern...
>>
>> It's a whole lot more than that.
>
> It is a hole, or even a backdoor?
>
>>> What about innovating devices to the point where they can no longer
>>> be repaired, and making sure that any attempt to do so is hindered
>>> by unobtainium parts, serialized parts that cannot be swapped, etc.
>>> Also one of those worthwile Apple innovations!
>
> The only innovation is to get the fence higher and higher ...
>
>

Keep drinking that koolaid!

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> asked
> None of this is answer to the accusation of vendor lock-in which is the
> salient point to which you were replying, so this is simply pro-Apple
> bigotry, at the same level of useless irrelevance with the anti-EU
> bigotry of others.

IMHO, you are correct that it's all about what you call "vendor lock-in".

IMHO, Apple's strategy is to lock the user into fixing the problems Apple
_creates_ using Apple products as much as Apple can force you to do it.

IMHO...
1. Apple promotes AppleCare which is the most expensive warranty(1)
2. Apple advertised using the wrong charger can/will electrocute(2) you.
3. And yet, Apple has _never_ supplied the correct charger(3) in the box!
4. Worse, Apple severely warns people about replicate lightning cables(4)
5. And Apple is on record for _refusing_ to honor the warranty (5)
6. Apple lied when telling us _why_ they removed charging functionality (6)
--
(1) To own an iPhone is to live in fear.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/why-is-applecare-so-much-more-expensive-for-iphones.2266655/
(2) Apple made a big deal saying any non Apple charger can kill you
https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/apple-replacing-fake-iphone-chargers-after-electric-shock-death-1.1313112
(3) The correct charger for the iPhone 12 has _never_ been supplied by Apple
in _any_ iPhone box ever sold which means that if you do what Apple
recommends, which is use your old charger from your trade-in phone, it will
_never_ be the correct charger for the iPhone 12 speeds you paid for.
https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/no-charger-in-the-box-everything-you-need-to-know-about-charging-the-iphone
(4) If the cable manufacturer doesn't pay Apple for certification, it's a
replicate cable in Apple's mind. <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204566>
(5) The warranty will _not_ be honored by Apple if you use the wrong
charger.
https://www.idropnews.com/news/brazilian-regulator-fines-apple-2-million-for-failing-to-provide-chargers-with-the-iphone/154774/
(6) Nobody lies like Apple lies and intelligent people see through it.
https://www.gsmarena.com/brazilian_proconsumer_agency_doesnt_buy_apples_reason_for_removing_chargers_from_new_iphones-news-46561.php

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> asked
> Baker is a notorious Troll and undifferentiated Apple-lickspittle.

Alan Baker is plonked by EVERYONE already (along with Snit & Dustin).

On 2021-09-24 9:57 a.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> asked
>> None of this is answer to the accusation of vendor lock-in which is the
>> salient point to which you were replying, so this is simply pro-Apple
>> bigotry, at the same level of useless irrelevance with the anti-EU
>> bigotry of others.
>
> IMHO, you are correct that it's all about what you call "vendor lock-in".
>
> IMHO, Apple's strategy is to lock the user into fixing the problems Apple
> _creates_ using Apple products as much as Apple can force you to do it.
>
> IMHO...
> 1. Apple promotes AppleCare which is the most expensive warranty(1)

Every manufacturer / seller tries to get you to buy expensive warranties.

> 2. Apple advertised using the wrong charger can/will electrocute(2) you.

Cite, please!

> 3. And yet, Apple has _never_ supplied the correct charger(3) in the box!

Apple supplies chargers with many of its products...

....and many different chargers are correct for Apple's products even if
they're not from Apple.

> 4. Worse, Apple severely warns people about replicate lightning cables(4)

Cite, please!

> 5. And Apple is on record for _refusing_ to honor the warranty (5)

Cite, please!

> 6. Apple lied when telling us _why_ they removed charging functionality (6)

Cite, please!

On 2021-09-24 9:59 a.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> asked
>> Baker is a notorious Troll and undifferentiated Apple-lickspittle.
>
> Alan Baker is plonked by EVERYONE already (along with Snit & Dustin).
>

LOL!

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 24/09/2021 16:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>> On 24/09/2021 17.16, Tweed wrote:
>>>
>>> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 24/09/2021 15:39, Tweed wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There is absolutely nothing to stop you plugging an iPhone into a USB-A
>>>>> charger and their later models can be plugged into a USB-C charger.
>>>>> Enforcing connector standardisation at the phone end is daft.
>>>>
>>>> Why? Lots of other such things are standardised, why not that? I'm
>>>> still waiting for the EU to standardise book sizes. Have you ever tried
>>>> to pack a trunk with books, all of which are different sizes?
>>>
>>> Standardisation is only useful when it serves a purpose that vastly
>>> outweighs any of the potential downsides.
>
> Why 'vastly', surely all that's needed is that the benefits outweigh the
> disadvantages?
>
> Do you really want to return to a world where all the networking gear
> has manufacturer-specific connectors and protocols that aren't
> interoperable? Or one where each manufacturer has its own proprietary
> format for a USB-stick that no other machines can read? Etc, etc.
>
>> And it does :-)
>
> Exactly!
>

The example you give is where vastly is appropriate.
Let’s take another example. Why not enforce a standard car tyre, all the
same size. Would cut down on inventory, storage space, make obtaining
spares more rapid, would make pricing more transparent. So lots of
advantages, but it doesn’t outweigh the disadvantages.

An iPhone *will* charge from a standard USB-A/C charger. It doesn’t require
you to throw anything away nor lock you into a particular vendor’s charger.
The charge cables are obtainable at the same price as ones with a micro USB
phone end. (Lidl, for example sold both at the same price).

Rob <nomail@example.com> asked
> What about innovating devices to the point where they can no longer
> be repaired, and making sure that any attempt to do so is hindered
> by unobtainium parts, serialized parts that cannot be swapped, etc.
> Also one of those worthwile Apple innovations!

Innovation, to Apple, is crippling the iPhone so that you _must_ buy back,
one by one, the myriad things Apple removed or restricted in the device.

In addition to scanning messages and images on your own device (thereby
becoming an active arm of law enforcement) and the other Apple "innovations"
you mentioned, Apple pioneered the removal of the charger in the box.

At the same time Apple tells you to use "any old charger" where the only
practical charger is the one that came in the box with the iPhone you traded
in.

But _that_ charger is the _wrong_ charger for the iPhone 12 because Apple
has _never_ supplied the correct charger with _any_ iPhone ever sold.

So you'll _never_ get the charging speeds you paid for and which Apple
advertises you'll get.

Worse, Apple won't honor the warranty if you use the wrong charger and if
that wrong charger damages your iPhone (even going so far as to highly
advertise that the wrong charger can electrocute you!).

Even if you pay for the very expensive AppleCare, Apple can and will
_refuse_ to honor your warranty (Brazil proved this already for us)
if that wrong charger doesn't charge your phone.

The _only_ "correct" charger Apple ever sold in the box is for an iPad,
which means Apple is asking you to do the ridilous (unacceptably so!)
juggling of someone elses' charger just so that you can charge your iPhone
every day?

Nobody traded in that expensive iPad for that expensive iPhone, so the claim
stands firm that Apple's suggestion is so ridiculous, that, as you noted,
it's "innovation" to the morons like Alan Baker.

Innovation, to Apple, is crippling the iPhone so that you _must_ buy back,
one by one, the myriad things Apple removed or restricted in the device.

On 2021-09-24 10:06 a.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Rob <nomail@example.com> asked
>> What about innovating devices to the point where they can no longer
>> be repaired, and making sure that any attempt to do so is hindered
>> by unobtainium parts, serialized parts that cannot be swapped, etc.
>> Also one of those worthwile Apple innovations!
>
> Innovation, to Apple, is crippling the iPhone so that you _must_ buy back,
> one by one, the myriad things Apple removed or restricted in the device.

This is a lie.

>
> In addition to scanning messages and images on your own device (thereby
> becoming an active arm of law enforcement) and the other Apple "innovations"
> you mentioned, Apple pioneered the removal of the charger in the box.

This is a lie.

>
> At the same time Apple tells you to use "any old charger" where the only
> practical charger is the one that came in the box with the iPhone you traded
> in.

This is a lie.

>
> But _that_ charger is the _wrong_ charger for the iPhone 12 because Apple
> has _never_ supplied the correct charger with _any_ iPhone ever sold.

Interesting you limit it to "any IPHONE"...

>
> So you'll _never_ get the charging speeds you paid for and which Apple
> advertises you'll get.

A lie.

>
> Worse, Apple won't honor the warranty if you use the wrong charger and if
> that wrong charger damages your iPhone (even going so far as to highly
> advertise that the wrong charger can electrocute you!).

A lie.

>
> Even if you pay for the very expensive AppleCare, Apple can and will
> _refuse_ to honor your warranty (Brazil proved this already for us)
> if that wrong charger doesn't charge your phone.

A lie.

>
> The _only_ "correct" charger Apple ever sold in the box is for an iPad,
> which means Apple is asking you to do the ridilous (unacceptably so!)
> juggling of someone elses' charger just so that you can charge your iPhone
> every day?

A lie.

>
> Nobody traded in that expensive iPad for that expensive iPhone, so the claim
> stands firm that Apple's suggestion is so ridiculous, that, as you noted,
> it's "innovation" to the morons like Alan Baker.

So if you have that iPad, you still have its charger.. ...and you can
use it for both devices!

>
> Innovation, to Apple, is crippling the iPhone so that you _must_ buy back,
> one by one, the myriad things Apple removed or restricted in the device.

You're simply a liar.

Roger Mills <watt.tyler@gmail.com> asked
> Many phones and other devices aren't supplied with chargers anyway

Almost every (if not every) "statistic" from the Apple bigots is dead wrong.
It's amazing actually, how fantastically _ignorant_ these Apple bigots are.

Phones from 2019 to current (and still available): 1389
<https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1>

With FM radio: 832
With 3.5mm headphone jack: 1072
<https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1>

Run that search for "chargers in the box" and report back to us please.
HINT: Almost _none_ aren't supplied with the right charger in the box.

On 2021-09-24 10:14 a.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Roger Mills <watt.tyler@gmail.com> asked
>> Many phones and other devices aren't supplied with chargers anyway
>
> Almost every (if not every) "statistic" from the Apple bigots is dead wrong.
> It's amazing actually, how fantastically _ignorant_ these Apple bigots are.
>
> Phones from 2019 to current (and still available): 1389
> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1>
>
> With FM radio: 832
> With 3.5mm headphone jack: 1072
> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1>
>
> Run that search for "chargers in the box" and report back to us please.
> HINT: Almost _none_ aren't supplied with the right charger in the box.
>

Now let's put it in the same price bracket as iPhones.

The least expensive current iPhone is the iPhone SE at $399 USD.

There are 366 phones available at that price (actually $405) or higher.

<https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&nPriceMin=350&sAvailabilities=1>

Of those:

only 99 have FM radios

only 137 have 3.5mm jacks

And since "chargers in the box" is a TEXT search, it's unlikely to
return meaningful results at all.

But you knew that, right, Liar?

On 24/09/2021 17:03, Tweed wrote:
> Let's take another example. Why not enforce a standard car tyre

Car tires adhere to more standards than you seem to be aware of.
The outside of the tire has all sorts of standards stamped on it.
Even the requirement for a dash air pressure monitor is standardized.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 2021-09-24 10:26 a.m., Martin Brown wrote:
> On 24/09/2021 17:03, Tweed wrote:
>> Let's take another example. Why not enforce a standard car tyre
>
> Car tires adhere to more standards than you seem to be aware of.
> The outside of the tire has all sorts of standards stamped on it.
> Even the requirement for a dash air pressure monitor is standardized.

Sorry, but others have said it better than I:

'These E.U. meddlers have indeed been clamoring for this legislation
since 2009 — Apple didn’t pick that date out of the air. At the time,
iPhones used 30-pin iPod USB 1 adapters and most other phones used
adapters like Micro-USB and (gag) Mini-USB. You don’t have to be a
computer engineer to look back at your lifetime and realize that
computer plugs and adapters keep getting smaller and better. Do they
really think no one is going to come up with an adapter better than
USB-C? Ever?

And don’t even start with any sort of argument that legislation like
this won’t impede progress, but will instead force the industry to work
together via committee to agree upon new better standards in a prompt
fashion. Almost everything that goes through such committees takes years
longer than one company can do on its own, and comes out worse — often
far worse. Look at all the horrendously shitty USB plugs the USB
consortium has come up with over the years.'

Apple came up with the Lightning connector back when the other USB
choices were crappy. It was in every way a better connector than the
other available choices.

USB-C is the first USB connector simply to be AS GOOD as Lightning...

....but it's not any better.

But if you lock everyone into providing a USB-C connector on every device...

....how will you ever move beyond it?

Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24/09/2021 17:03, Tweed wrote:
>> Let's take another example. Why not enforce a standard car tyre
>
> Car tires adhere to more standards than you seem to be aware of.
> The outside of the tire has all sorts of standards stamped on it.
> Even the requirement for a dash air pressure monitor is standardized.

But there isn’t *one* car tyre size. Adhering to standards is a different
matter.

In article <sikkpg$kif$4@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:

> >> When manufacturers are forced to follow a standard, that means that
> >> everything will just inter-operate and you can charge your phone from
> >> the charger of your wife's phone. That is not what Apple wants, Apple
> >> wants your wife to buy an Apple phone as well, or you to buy sufficient
> >> chargers so that you always have one nearby even when you forgot to
> >> bring it. That is what they call innovation, and what others call
> >> waste of resources.
> >
> > apple doesn't care what charger someone uses. any charger that is usb-a
> > or usb-c will work, same as android and many other devices.
>
> Stupid. A charger system always has two ends.

one end of the charger is usb-a or usb-c and the other end is a mains
plug.

iphones can use *any* charger that is usb compliant.

how about standardizing mains power outlets. those who travel
internationally need to carry a bag of adapters for all of the
different outlets in the world and also deal with 50/60hz and different
voltages.

In article <sil16k.b2g.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> And note that - as the article mentions - "New models of the iPad and
> MacBook use USB-C charging ports". So much for "Apple has warned such a
> move [to USB-C charging ports] would harm innovation.". Apparently iPads
> and MacBooks don't need "innovation".

phones and computers have different use cases, plus there are numerous
hardware devices that connect directly to the phone.

In article <siks9e$gta$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Java Jive
<java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:

> >>
> >> It has been a long time since Apple introduced useful
> >> innovation, lately they have mainly promoted vendor lock-in.
> >
> > You mean other than coming up with the most efficient and powerful
> > processors used in phones; so powerful that they're now used for Macs as
> > well.
> >
> > Other than innovations in software to make better pictures.
> >
> > Visit Patently Apple some time.
>
> None of this is answer to the accusation of vendor lock-in which is the
> salient point to which you were replying, so this is simply pro-Apple
> bigotry, at the same level of useless irrelevance with the anti-EU
> bigotry of others.

there is no vendor lock-in. lightning cables are available from many
third parties and any usb-a or usb-c charger will work, or go wireless
with any qi pad.