David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> schrieb:
> On 14/03/2022 17:45, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> schrieb:
>>> Niklas Holsti wrote:
>>
>>>> "If I Were You" is the title of a novel by P.G. Wodehouse. One of his
>>>> best, IMO.
>>>
>>> I have probably read that one. I did read every single PGW book in my
>>> (very good!) local library, co-located with my primary school. Those
>>> books plus "The Complete Sherlock Holmes Short Stories" was how I taught
>>> myself English after learning the basics in school.
>>
>> The main influence on my English was probably BFBS, the British
>> Forces Broadcasting Service. They were simply playing better
>> music than the German radio stations, so I tuned in.
>>
>> And once I had discovered that science fiction reads much
>> better in the original language, there was no turning back.
>>
>> For one of my family the impetus was Star Trek. We wanted to watch
>> the original series it in English (having only ever seen the German
>> version), and he asked if he could also watch it. We said OK,
>> but he would have to watch it in English. He didn't mind, so...
>>
>
> And from that you learn grammar gems such as "To boldly go where no man
> has gone before" - a split infinitive and ending the sentence in a
> preposition.

"The Myths and Legends of Gnome Ann" come to mind...

(Generally, I find the English from US TV series to be much clearer
and easier to understand than British TV. Just compare "Doctor Who"
with "Voyager", or "Luther" with "Bosch".)

On 2022-03-14 18:59, David Brown wrote:
> On 14/03/2022 17:45, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> schrieb:
>>> Niklas Holsti wrote:
>>
>>>> "If I Were You" is the title of a novel by P.G. Wodehouse. One of his
>>>> best, IMO.
>>>
>>> I have probably read that one. I did read every single PGW book in my
>>> (very good!) local library, co-located with my primary school. Those
>>> books plus "The Complete Sherlock Holmes Short Stories" was how I taught
>>> myself English after learning the basics in school.
>>
>> The main influence on my English was probably BFBS, the British
>> Forces Broadcasting Service. They were simply playing better
>> music than the German radio stations, so I tuned in.
>>
>> And once I had discovered that science fiction reads much
>> better in the original language, there was no turning back.
>>
>> For one of my family the impetus was Star Trek. We wanted to watch
>> the original series it in English (having only ever seen the German
>> version), and he asked if he could also watch it. We said OK,
>> but he would have to watch it in English. He didn't mind, so...
>>
>
> And from that you learn grammar gems such as "To boldly go where no man
> has gone before" - a split infinitive and ending the sentence in a
> preposition.
>
> (Both of these rules were added to Latinise English grammar.)

But "before" can also be an adverb (meaning "at an earlier time"), so
the do-not-end-with-preposition rule does not apply, right?

On 14/03/2022 19:18, Niklas Holsti wrote:
> On 2022-03-14 18:59, David Brown wrote:
>> On 14/03/2022 17:45, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> schrieb:
>>>> Niklas Holsti wrote:
>>>
>>>>> "If I Were You" is the title of a novel by P.G. Wodehouse. One of his
>>>>> best, IMO.
>>>>
>>>> I have probably read that one. I did read every single PGW book in my
>>>> (very good!) local library, co-located with my primary school. Those
>>>> books plus "The Complete Sherlock Holmes Short Stories" was how I
>>>> taught
>>>> myself English after learning the basics in school.
>>>
>>> The main influence on my English was probably BFBS, the British
>>> Forces Broadcasting Service.  They were simply playing better
>>> music than the German radio stations, so I tuned in.
>>>
>>> And once I had discovered that science fiction reads much
>>> better in the original language, there was no turning back.
>>>
>>> For one of my family the impetus was Star Trek.  We wanted to watch
>>> the original series it in English (having only ever seen the German
>>> version), and he asked if he could also watch it.  We said OK,
>>> but he would have to watch it in English.  He didn't mind, so...
>>>
>>
>> And from that you learn grammar gems such as "To boldly go where no man
>> has gone before" - a split infinitive and ending the sentence in a
>> preposition.
>>
>> (Both of these rules were added to Latinise English grammar.)
>
>
> But "before" can also be an adverb (meaning "at an earlier time"), so
> the do-not-end-with-preposition rule does not apply, right?

I've always thought of it as just a preposition. In cases like this,
the object of the proposition is implied - basically, meaning "before
now". However, you could certainly say that it is being used as an
adverb in that sentence. Does that mean it /is/ an adverb here, or that
it is a preposition being used as an adverb - and is there a
distinction? I'm afraid that is too theoretical for my knowledge of
grammar.

When it is said "There isn't a noun that can't be verbed", does that
mean the noun "verb" is also a verb, or that it is a noun that is being
used as a verb?

On 14/03/2022 18:34, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> schrieb:
>> On 14/03/2022 17:45, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>> Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> schrieb:
>>>> Niklas Holsti wrote:
>>>
>>>>> "If I Were You" is the title of a novel by P.G. Wodehouse. One of his
>>>>> best, IMO.
>>>>
>>>> I have probably read that one. I did read every single PGW book in my
>>>> (very good!) local library, co-located with my primary school. Those
>>>> books plus "The Complete Sherlock Holmes Short Stories" was how I taught
>>>> myself English after learning the basics in school.
>>>
>>> The main influence on my English was probably BFBS, the British
>>> Forces Broadcasting Service. They were simply playing better
>>> music than the German radio stations, so I tuned in.
>>>
>>> And once I had discovered that science fiction reads much
>>> better in the original language, there was no turning back.
>>>
>>> For one of my family the impetus was Star Trek. We wanted to watch
>>> the original series it in English (having only ever seen the German
>>> version), and he asked if he could also watch it. We said OK,
>>> but he would have to watch it in English. He didn't mind, so...
>>>
>>
>> And from that you learn grammar gems such as "To boldly go where no man
>> has gone before" - a split infinitive and ending the sentence in a
>> preposition.
>
> "The Myths and Legends of Gnome Ann" come to mind...
>
> (Generally, I find the English from US TV series to be much clearer
> and easier to understand than British TV. Just compare "Doctor Who"
> with "Voyager", or "Luther" with "Bosch".)
>

I was brought up on /real/ Doctor Who, so I don't much like the modern
stuff. It's become too much like Holywood - every week there has too be
some enemy that is the most dangerous and evil thing in the universe,
until next week there has to be something that is worse. The original
Daleks and Cybermen were bad, but not usually "end of the universe" bad.
(But scary enough that I had to watch them from behind the sofa!)

American TV has a tradition of "normalising" dialects and accents to
"Holywood standard", unless there is a strong reason to have a
distinctive accent. (This seems to have changed in recent times,
however, with actors getting to use their own natural accents more
often. IMHO this often gives a bit more depth to the characters.)
British TV has a stronger tradition of being made in different parts of
the country, with actors keeping whatever accents they normally use.
You see it particularly in crime series.

On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 6:59:44 PM UTC+2, David Brown wrote:
> On 14/03/2022 17:45, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> > Terje Mathisen <terje.m...@tmsw.no> schrieb:
> >> Niklas Holsti wrote:
> >
> >>> "If I Were You" is the title of a novel by P.G. Wodehouse. One of his
> >>> best, IMO.
> >>
> >> I have probably read that one. I did read every single PGW book in my
> >> (very good!) local library, co-located with my primary school. Those
> >> books plus "The Complete Sherlock Holmes Short Stories" was how I taught
> >> myself English after learning the basics in school.
> >
> > The main influence on my English was probably BFBS, the British
> > Forces Broadcasting Service. They were simply playing better
> > music than the German radio stations, so I tuned in.
> >
> > And once I had discovered that science fiction reads much
> > better in the original language, there was no turning back.
> >
> > For one of my family the impetus was Star Trek. We wanted to watch
> > the original series it in English (having only ever seen the German
> > version), and he asked if he could also watch it. We said OK,
> > but he would have to watch it in English. He didn't mind, so...
> >
> And from that you learn grammar gems such as "To boldly go where no man
> has gone before" - a split infinitive and ending the sentence in a
> preposition.

Is it a Star Trek? Sounds very Kipling.

>
> (Both of these rules were added to Latinise English grammar.)

On 3/14/2022 7:15 AM, Stephen Fuld wrote:
> On 3/14/2022 6:57 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 11:58:22 AM UTC-6, Michael S wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 2:47:33 AM UTC+2, JimBrakefield wrote:
>>
>>>> Further process nodes will take place slowly?
>>
>>> If Intel and Samsung continue to compete against TSMC then yes, new
>>> nodes will arrive slowly.
>>> But if both of them throw a towel, like the rest of the industry did
>>> several years ago, then TSMC
>>> will have all economical reasons to move not just slowly, but
>>> extremely slowly.
>>
>> But what is the benefit of a new process node?
>>
>> Now that Dennard scaling is no longer with us, shrinking to a new
>> process node hasn't meant that microprocessors have gone from
>> 3 GHz to 5 GHz to 6 GHz to 10 GHz and so on and on.
>>
>> The only advantages of a new process node is that one can put
>> more cores on a single die, and one's chips use less power.
>
> Not the *only* advantage.  Newer process node with smaller gates means a
> chip with a given number of gates is physically smaller.  Physically
> smaller chips means more chips per wafer.  More chips per wafer means
> lower cost per chip. (perhaps counterbalanced if the new process is more
> expensive per wafer).

Fab cost is more complicated than simple area and dies-per-wafer. Yield
is critical. At smaller line sizes the dies get smaller, but failure
modes that are rare with wider become more significant.

Mill cores are much smaller than comparable OOO cores, but the cores are
such a small part of the die that the effect is nice but not compelling;
maybe a 0.4 gain in yield per wafer. However, for all chips the actual
fails are concentrated in the cores, not in high-area regions like
caches, pads, and power/ground. Consequently we expect much better
yields per equivalent dies in the process-evolution region in which
fault rates dominate yield. Once the fab migrates out of that region,
costs drop to raw area comparisons (as you suggest), and we will lose
much of, but not all, of our yield advantage.

On 14/03/2022 20:40, Michael S wrote:
> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 6:59:44 PM UTC+2, David Brown wrote:
>> On 14/03/2022 17:45, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>> Terje Mathisen <terje.m...@tmsw.no> schrieb:
>>>> Niklas Holsti wrote:
>>>
>>>>> "If I Were You" is the title of a novel by P.G. Wodehouse. One of his
>>>>> best, IMO.
>>>>
>>>> I have probably read that one. I did read every single PGW book in my
>>>> (very good!) local library, co-located with my primary school. Those
>>>> books plus "The Complete Sherlock Holmes Short Stories" was how I taught
>>>> myself English after learning the basics in school.
>>>
>>> The main influence on my English was probably BFBS, the British
>>> Forces Broadcasting Service. They were simply playing better
>>> music than the German radio stations, so I tuned in.
>>>
>>> And once I had discovered that science fiction reads much
>>> better in the original language, there was no turning back.
>>>
>>> For one of my family the impetus was Star Trek. We wanted to watch
>>> the original series it in English (having only ever seen the German
>>> version), and he asked if he could also watch it. We said OK,
>>> but he would have to watch it in English. He didn't mind, so...
>>>
>> And from that you learn grammar gems such as "To boldly go where no man
>> has gone before" - a split infinitive and ending the sentence in a
>> preposition.
>
> Is it a Star Trek? Sounds very Kipling.
>

It's the Star Trek motto - it's in the opening credits of every episode
(of the "real" Star Trek series - not the spin-offs).

On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 1:40:34 PM UTC-6, Michael S wrote:
> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 6:59:44 PM UTC+2, David Brown wrote:

> > And from that you learn grammar gems such as "To boldly go where no man
> > has gone before" - a split infinitive and ending the sentence in a
> > preposition.

> Is it a Star Trek? Sounds very Kipling.

Each episode of the original NBC television series Star Trek (1966-1969)
included, during the opening credits, the following narration:

These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise:
Its five-year mission,
to seek out new life and new civilizations,
to boldly go where no man has gone before.

Many years later, the television series Star Trek: The Next Generation used
that narration with slight amendments:

These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise:
Its continuing mission,
to seek out new life and new civilizations,
to boldly go where no one has gone before.

I am quite surprised that anyone would be unaware
of that. You may be making a literary allusion yourself,
but a quick Google search hasn't helped me.

John Savard

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 2:42:05 AM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
> On 14/03/2022 20:40, Michael S wrote:
> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 6:59:44 PM UTC+2, David Brown wrote:
> >> On 14/03/2022 17:45, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> >>> Terje Mathisen <terje.m...@tmsw.no> schrieb:
> >>>> Niklas Holsti wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> "If I Were You" is the title of a novel by P.G. Wodehouse. One of his
> >>>>> best, IMO.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have probably read that one. I did read every single PGW book in my
> >>>> (very good!) local library, co-located with my primary school. Those
> >>>> books plus "The Complete Sherlock Holmes Short Stories" was how I taught
> >>>> myself English after learning the basics in school.
> >>>
> >>> The main influence on my English was probably BFBS, the British
> >>> Forces Broadcasting Service. They were simply playing better
> >>> music than the German radio stations, so I tuned in.
> >>>
> >>> And once I had discovered that science fiction reads much
> >>> better in the original language, there was no turning back.
> >>>
> >>> For one of my family the impetus was Star Trek. We wanted to watch
> >>> the original series it in English (having only ever seen the German
> >>> version), and he asked if he could also watch it. We said OK,
> >>> but he would have to watch it in English. He didn't mind, so...
> >>>
> >> And from that you learn grammar gems such as "To boldly go where no man
> >> has gone before" - a split infinitive and ending the sentence in a
> >> preposition.
> >
> > Is it a Star Trek? Sounds very Kipling.
> >
> It's the Star Trek motto - it's in the opening credits of every episode
> (of the "real" Star Trek series - not the spin-offs).
<
It is the original star trek, The Next Generation Star Trek changed
'man' to 'one'

On 15/03/2022 17:26, MitchAlsup wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 2:42:05 AM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
>> On 14/03/2022 20:40, Michael S wrote:
>>> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 6:59:44 PM UTC+2, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 14/03/2022 17:45, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>>>> Terje Mathisen <terje.m...@tmsw.no> schrieb:
>>>>>> Niklas Holsti wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> "If I Were You" is the title of a novel by P.G. Wodehouse. One of his
>>>>>>> best, IMO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have probably read that one. I did read every single PGW book in my
>>>>>> (very good!) local library, co-located with my primary school. Those
>>>>>> books plus "The Complete Sherlock Holmes Short Stories" was how I taught
>>>>>> myself English after learning the basics in school.
>>>>>
>>>>> The main influence on my English was probably BFBS, the British
>>>>> Forces Broadcasting Service. They were simply playing better
>>>>> music than the German radio stations, so I tuned in.
>>>>>
>>>>> And once I had discovered that science fiction reads much
>>>>> better in the original language, there was no turning back.
>>>>>
>>>>> For one of my family the impetus was Star Trek. We wanted to watch
>>>>> the original series it in English (having only ever seen the German
>>>>> version), and he asked if he could also watch it. We said OK,
>>>>> but he would have to watch it in English. He didn't mind, so...
>>>>>
>>>> And from that you learn grammar gems such as "To boldly go where no man
>>>> has gone before" - a split infinitive and ending the sentence in a
>>>> preposition.
>>>
>>> Is it a Star Trek? Sounds very Kipling.
>>>
>> It's the Star Trek motto - it's in the opening credits of every episode
>> (of the "real" Star Trek series - not the spin-offs).
> <
> It is the original star trek, The Next Generation Star Trek changed
> 'man' to 'one'
>

True - but that only affects the sexism (and I suppose speciesism, given
that we are talking about the Federation of Planets), not the grammar!

David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> schrieb:
> On 15/03/2022 17:26, MitchAlsup wrote:

>> It is the original star trek, The Next Generation Star Trek changed
>> 'man' to 'one'
>>
>
> True - but that only affects the sexism (and I suppose speciesism, given
> that we are talking about the Federation of Planets), not the grammar!

It also makes the Myths of Gnoma Ann less funny, so I don't like it.

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 6:23:19 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

> Each episode of the original NBC television series Star Trek (1966-1969)
> included, during the opening credits, the following narration:

but my memory, alas, left out parts.

Space: the final frontier!
> These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise:
> Its five-year mission,
to explore strange new worlds,
> to seek out new life and new civilizations,
> to boldly go where no man has gone before.
>
> Many years later, the television series Star Trek: The Next Generation used
> that narration with slight amendments:
>
Space: the final frontier!
> These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise:
> Its continuing mission,
to explore strange new worlds,
> to seek out new life and new civilizations,
> to boldly go where no one has gone before.
>
> I am quite surprised that anyone would be unaware
> of that. You may be making a literary allusion yourself,
> but a quick Google search hasn't helped me.

John Savard

On Tuesday, March 15, 2022 at 1:12:35 PM UTC-6, David Brown wrote:

> True - but that only affects the sexism (and I suppose speciesism, given
> that we are talking about the Federation of Planets), not the grammar!

It may be noted that the... unnecessary specificity... was noticed even
before the intro was changed. Thus, in the satire "Star Blecch", in the
December 1967 issue of MAD magazine, we see "Mr. Spook" suggesting:

What say we beam down to that place where no man has gone before...
"The Planet Phi Epsilon Nudist Colony for Women"?

John Savard