In article <t31ld4$v10$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> An alternate phone number, or an e-mail address, on the lock screen is
> all that's necessary for someone to be able to return the phone to their
> owner.

that is false, no matter how much you try to claim otherwise.

> Often an honest person does find the phone, at least judging from the
> number of times I've seen "found a phone on the trail, how can I find
> the owner?" posts on Nextdoor. Sometimes the carrier's name will be
> displayed when the phone is powered on and returning the phone to a
> carrier's store is the best you can do.

the owner can use find my to locate the phone and/or send a message & a
contact number if found.

it works quite well.

> In the even that you lose your phone, having an alternate phone number
> displayed on the lock screen, doesn't put anyone in danger, despite the
> attempts by some of our trolls to fabricate weird scenarios. But if
> someone is really paranoid, they can create a separate Gmail account and
> a Google Voice number, to put on the lock screen.

that doesn't change anything.

On 2022-04-11 9:15 a.m., The Real Bev wrote:
> On 04/10/2022 10:18 PM, Why must Arlen lie? wrote:
>> On 2022-04-10 1:45 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>> I posit that something might be said about the IQs of users of those
>>>> phones, but my daughter (who is really smart) uses iPhones.
>>>> Accordingly, I suspect that people use whatever they started with --
>>>> and iPhones were what her local provider was giving out.
>>>
>>> Apple has the finest marketing on earth (along with the lowest R&D in
>>> tech).
>>
>> Why must you lie, Arlen?
>
> Might not be a lie, at least about the 'marketing' thing -- every time
> you see someone using a computer in a movie or tv show it's got a
> glowing apple logo highly visible.  I've been paying attention to this
> for quite a while.

The lie is that Apple has "the lowest R&D in tech".

<https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/which-companies-spend-the-most-in-research-and-development-rd-2021-06-21>

That shows that there are only 4 companies in the world that spend more
on than Apple.

Amazon at $42.74 billion on revenue of $386 billion

Alphabet (Google) at $27.5 billion on revenue of $257 billion

Huawei at $22.04 billion on revenue of $140 billion

Microsoft at $19.27 billion on revenue of $143 billion

Then comes Apple at $18.75 billion on revenue of $274 billion

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <t31gtp$ngb$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>>> the fact is that apple addressed the issue.
>>>>
>>>> They've *tried* to address the issue. It is still a problem for many.
>>>
>>> they more than tried. they completely reimplemented face id using a new
>>> neural engine to work with masks.
>
> how would you have dealt with face id and masks?
>
> since you don't think apple properly resolved it, what's your solution?
> be specific.

lol. from the master non-specific generalisations.

I don't need to come up with a solution in order to be able to complain
about FaceID.

> ...
>
>> Shops aren't the only place. Public transport is more commonly used in this
>> side of the pond than the US and masks are still required. So on journeys
>> there's many times you need to unlock your phone or access apps.
>
> express transit doesn't require authentication and even works if the
> battery is too low for the phone to be powered on.

Who said anything about express transit? I'm talking about while sitting in
my seat and using my phone.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 4/11/2022 5:26 AM, Chris wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> You didn't look up lost mode, did you?
>>
>> With it enabled a lost iphone can have a message added to the lock screen
>> which is likely more informative than whatever generic info you hardcoded
>> into your jpeg image.
>>
>> I've not used android in a while, but I doubt it has a lead here.
>
> With lost mode the phone has to have service.

True. If someone's going to pick it up they're, at some point, likely to
take it somewhere with service.

> You also have to have
> turned on "Find My (device)" before it's lost.

It's the default and for this reason is a bad idea to turn off.

> Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't “Lost Mode” require another
> Apple device to use it?

Nope. You can do it online via a web browser.

In article <t31t35$180$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

> >
> >>>>> the fact is that apple addressed the issue.
> >>>>
> >>>> They've *tried* to address the issue. It is still a problem for many.
> >>>
> >>> they more than tried. they completely reimplemented face id using a new
> >>> neural engine to work with masks.
> >
> > how would you have dealt with face id and masks?
> >
> > since you don't think apple properly resolved it, what's your solution?
> > be specific.
>
> lol. from the master non-specific generalisations.
>
> I don't need to come up with a solution in order to be able to complain
> about FaceID.

you're avoiding answering the question because you know that apple did
everything they could, first with mask detection, then apple watch
unlock and finally face id that works with masks.

you said that was only 'trying', so again, how could they have done
better? be specific.

> >> Shops aren't the only place. Public transport is more commonly used in this
> >> side of the pond than the US and masks are still required. So on journeys
> >> there's many times you need to unlock your phone or access apps.
> >
> > express transit doesn't require authentication and even works if the
> > battery is too low for the phone to be powered on.
>
> Who said anything about express transit? I'm talking about while sitting in
> my seat and using my phone.

you're the one who mentioned public transit.

not only is no mask required for express transit, but the phone can
have a dead battery and not even be powered on.

Am 11.04.22 um 18:30 schrieb The Real Bev:
> On 04/11/2022 09:04 AM, AJL wrote:
>> No masks required in any of the stores I frequent anymore. (My doctors
>> offices still do though.) Most folks are bare faced here. Got my
>> second booster 2 days after it became legal to get it. Absolutely no
>> line which surprised me...
>
> Lots of people still wear masks when shopping, although not required.
> BUT nearly everyone in the Aldi store in the Asian neighborhood was
> wearing a mask.

No needed here anymore. Neither in shops nor in public transport. The
number of people wearing them nonetheless is shrinking rapidly.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 4/11/2022 9:24 AM, AJL wrote:

<snip>

> I've never asked anyone what they put on their lock screen. And like you
> I can't otherwise know what they put there. My GUESS is that most don't
> put anything on it simply because they never thought about it and/or
> because it's a bit of a convoluted process...

It depends on the phone's setup procedure. On at least some of my
Android devices, setting the lock screen message was an option during
the setup.

On the iPhone probably very few people read articles like
<https://www.lifewire.com/add-contact-info-to-lock-screen-wallpaper-1701950>
so they'd have no idea of the rather convoluted process necessary.
However when they see the contact information displayed on the lock
screen of someone's phone that's when they realize that it's a good idea.

Whenever I see one of those posts of "I found an iPhone, how can I find
the owner?" i.e. <https://i.imgur.com/GJwTzdM.jpg>. I remind people to
put the contact information onto their devices' lock screen.

The last time I found a phone I was on my bike and the phone was not
locked so I called someone in the contacts and told them that I didn't
know whose phone this was but if they recognized the number to give the
owner my contact information.

Hopefully a future update of iOS will add the ability to put contact
information onto the lock screen without having to create custom
lockscreen wallpaper. It's possible that this is a patented Android
feature that iOS is not allowed to include. On my iPhone Xr I did create
that custome wallpaper <https://i.imgur.com/IaKrvam.jpg> but it should
not be that much of hassle.

In article <t32664$c19$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> Hopefully a future update of iOS will add the ability to put contact
> information onto the lock screen without having to create custom
> lockscreen wallpaper.

there's no demand for it because ios has a more effective solution.

> It's possible that this is a patented Android
> feature that iOS is not allowed to include.

it's not patented, nor could it be. that's your usual 'excuse', which
only shows how little you know about patents.

On 4/11/2022 2:22 PM, sms wrote:

> The last time I found a phone I was on my bike and the phone was not
> locked so I called someone in the contacts and told them that I
> didn't know whose phone this was but if they recognized the number
> to give the owner my contact information.

I found a phone left on a table in a Target soda shop (before they
closed for the pandemic). Nothing on the lock screen. I gave it to the
cashier. Before I left (I was waiting for you-know-who shopping of
course) the owner, a teenager, returned and retrieved it. Happy ending...

On 11 Apr 2022, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in comp.mobile.android:

>> Is 190 million a "significant portion" of 1.8 billion or not?
>
> there aren't 1.8 billion iphones in active use and 190 million is
> nothing more than a guess.

You are stupid.

You made a claim about the iPhone 12 & iPhone 13 share that does not stand
up to the scrutiny of comparing the number sold versus the numbers in use.

Even if you choose only 1 billion active iPhones in current use, the 190
million units for the iPhone 12 & iPhone 13 is less than a fifth of that.

nospam wrote:

> you're avoiding answering the question because you know that apple did
> everything they could, first with mask detection, then apple watch
> unlock and finally face id that works with masks.

Do you iKooks all live in the inner-city projects?

Given Apple is all about marketing, and given people "think" their face is
the most important thing in the world, it's not surprising that Apple's "did
everything they could" to keep their faceid gimmickry alive during Covid.

Faceid is a laughably silly marketing gimmick that works on people who
believe everything Apple feeds them to believe, which is that the biggest
threat to their existence is someone sneaking up behind them to snatch their
phone out of their hands.

Meanwhile Apple adds zero-day zero-click holes to the iPhone all the time.

The Real Bev wrote:

> Lots of people still wear masks when shopping, although not required.
> BUT nearly everyone in the Aldi store in the Asian neighborhood was
> wearing a mask.

Personally, I _like_ wearing masks as it would complicate faceid detection
in store cameras, if any (Apple was sued for that a while back).

nospam wrote:

> how would you have dealt with face id and masks?

When you strip away the marketing bullshit about how Apple made the iPhone
12 & iPhone 13 face id gimmick not be a pain in the ass, you'd be surprised
at how sophomoric the "solution" Apple came up with to keep their marketing
gimmick alive.

It's a sophomoric workaround to a laughably silly marketing gimmick.

The Real Bev wrote:

> On 04/10/2022 10:18 PM, Why must Arlen lie? wrote:

I have a regular expression which plonks anything with "Arlen" in the name
in the operating system newsgroups, so I really wish others wouldn't respond
to Alan Baker (who is no better than Snit when it comes to his denial of
what has been discussed for years).

Alan Baker denies any fact about Apple he hates, which even nospam, Lewis,
Jolly Roger et. al, do, but he denies all facts with Snit tenacity and
therefore it's never possible to carry on an adult conversation with him.

The fact also remains that Apple spends almost nothing on R&D compared to
any other high tech company, which is likely why coding quality sucks.
*Apple R&D spending looks anemic compared to rivals' big budgets*
<https://www.cultofmac.com/720505/apple-rd-spending-2020-compared-to-google-microsoft/>

While it fluctuates (depending more on revenue than anything else), Apple's
R&D is a measly 2% which we need to compare with Apple's MARKETING budget.
*Why Does Apple Only Spend 2% of Its Money on R&D?*
<https://techland.time.com/2011/10/18/why-does-apple-only-spend-2-of-its-money-on-rd/>

>> On 2022-04-10 1:45 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>> I posit that something might be said about the IQs of users of those
>>>> phones, but my daughter (who is really smart) uses iPhones.
>>>> Accordingly, I suspect that people use whatever they started with --
>>>> and iPhones were what her local provider was giving out.
>>>
>>> Apple has the finest marketing on earth (along with the lowest R&D in
>>> tech).
>>
>> Why must you lie, Arlen?
>
> Might not be a lie, at least about the 'marketing' thing -- every time
> you see someone using a computer in a movie or tv show it's got a
> glowing apple logo highly visible. I've been paying attention to this
> for quite a while.

To The Real Bev,

It's a fact.
Anyone who doesn't know that fact knows nothing about Apple.
Absolutely nothing.

If you do not know the R&D expenditures of Apple by percentage compared to
similar high tech companies, then you have no right to question that fact.

Historically Apple has been asked to _defend_ their low R&D expenditures
because Apple's strategy is clearly in MARKETING their product, not in R&D.

I could give you a hundred URLs that back that up but it wouldn't help since
Snit-like people (Alan Baker being one of them) will _never_ understand
facts.

But here's an _entire_ thread on the subject, so if anyone doesn't know it,
then they've been hiding under a rock for a very long time since Apple is
NOT an R&D powerhouse - Apple is a MARKETING powerhouse.

*Does it surprise you Apple spends less in R&D (proportionate to revenue)*
*than similar tech companies?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/STrAkx09VYk/m/4Qr_Iuq5AwAJ>

In summary,
a. If you don't know Apple's strategy, you know nothing about Apple
b. The iKooks deny all facts about Apple (even facts Apple openly admits)
c. There's no chance of carrying an intelligent conversation with Alan Baker

Even nospam, once in a while, admits to facts.
Alan Baker never does.

Note I do not see _any_ posts with "Arlen" in the name.

On 2022-04-11 7:56 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> Lots of people still wear masks when shopping, although not required.
>> BUT nearly everyone in the Aldi store in the Asian neighborhood was
>> wearing a mask.
>
> Personally, I _like_ wearing masks as it would complicate faceid detection
> in store cameras, if any (Apple was sued for that a while back).

Anyone CAN be sued for anything...

....but in this case, you cannot even substantiate that such a suit ever
was tried.

He used to post are "Arlen", but now he's moved on to new nyms!

On 2022-04-11 8:02 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> On 04/10/2022 10:18 PM, Why must Arlen lie? wrote:
>
> I have a regular expression which plonks anything with "Arlen" in the name
> in the operating system newsgroups, so I really wish others wouldn't
> respond
> to Alan Baker (who is no better than Snit when it comes to his denial of
> what has been discussed for years).

So you're admitted that you used to post as "Arlen".

Got it.

>
> Alan Baker denies any fact about Apple he hates, which even nospam, Lewis,
> Jolly Roger et. al, do, but he denies all facts with Snit tenacity and
> therefore it's never possible to carry on an adult conversation with him.

I've never denied any facts.

>
> The fact also remains that Apple spends almost nothing on R&D compared to
> any other high tech company, which is likely why coding quality sucks.
> *Apple R&D spending looks anemic compared to rivals' big budgets*
> <https://www.cultofmac.com/720505/apple-rd-spending-2020-compared-to-google-microsoft/>

Apple spends more than only a handful of companies.

>
>
> While it fluctuates (depending more on revenue than anything else), Apple's
> R&D is a measly 2% which we need to compare with Apple's MARKETING
> budget. *Why Does Apple Only Spend 2% of Its Money on R&D?*
> <https://techland.time.com/2011/10/18/why-does-apple-only-spend-2-of-its-money-on-rd/>

"2011"? Really?

And why is the percentage you spend important?

>
>
>>> On 2022-04-10 1:45 p.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I posit that something might be said about the IQs of users of those
>>>>> phones, but my daughter (who is really smart) uses iPhones.
>>>>> Accordingly, I suspect that people use whatever they started with --
>>>>> and iPhones were what her local provider was giving out.
>>>>
>>>> Apple has the finest marketing on earth (along with the lowest R&D in
>>>> tech).
>>>
>>> Why must you lie, Arlen?
>>
>> Might not be a lie, at least about the 'marketing' thing -- every time
>> you see someone using a computer in a movie or tv show it's got a
>> glowing apple logo highly visible.  I've been paying attention to this
>> for quite a while.
>
> To The Real Bev,
>
> It's a fact.
> Anyone who doesn't know that fact knows nothing about Apple.
> Absolutely nothing.
>
> If you do not know the R&D expenditures of Apple by percentage compared to
> similar high tech companies, then you have no right to question that fact.

Why is "by percentage" important?

>
> Historically Apple has been asked to _defend_ their low R&D expenditures
> because Apple's strategy is clearly in MARKETING their product, not in R&D.
>
> I could give you a hundred URLs that back that up but it wouldn't help
> since
> Snit-like people (Alan Baker being one of them) will _never_ understand
> facts.
>
> But here's an _entire_ thread on the subject, so if anyone doesn't know it,
> then they've been hiding under a rock for a very long time since Apple is
> NOT an R&D powerhouse - Apple is a MARKETING powerhouse.
>
> *Does it surprise you Apple spends less in R&D (proportionate to
> revenue)* *than similar tech companies?*
> <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/STrAkx09VYk/m/4Qr_Iuq5AwAJ>

Without looking, I know you're citing yourself.

>
>
> In summary, a. If you don't know Apple's strategy, you know nothing
> about Apple
> b. The iKooks deny all facts about Apple (even facts Apple openly admits)
> c. There's no chance of carrying an intelligent conversation with Alan
> Baker
>
> Even nospam, once in a while, admits to facts. Alan Baker never does.
>
> Note I do not see _any_ posts with "Arlen" in the name.

Which is your cowardice.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <t31t35$180$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>>>>> the fact is that apple addressed the issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They've *tried* to address the issue. It is still a problem for many.
>>>>>
>>>>> they more than tried. they completely reimplemented face id using a new
>>>>> neural engine to work with masks.
>>>
>>> how would you have dealt with face id and masks?
>>>
>>> since you don't think apple properly resolved it, what's your solution?
>>> be specific.
>>
>> lol. from the master non-specific generalisations.
>>
>> I don't need to come up with a solution in order to be able to complain
>> about FaceID.
>
> you're avoiding answering the question because you know that apple did
> everything they could,

Possibly. However, you're claiming that they've dealt with the issue. They
haven't. It's a bit better for some. That's it. Many (most?) still have to
resort to insecure passcodes.

> first with mask detection, then apple watch
> unlock and finally face id that works with masks.

"works" lol. I've watched my kid and wife both with iphone 12s not seeing
any change with iOS 15.4.

> you said that was only 'trying', so again, how could they have done
> better? be specific.

I've never been a fan of FaceID. TouchID is better for many reasons. If
they had stuck with it the pandemic would have been a non-issue for *all*
iphone users.

>>>> Shops aren't the only place. Public transport is more commonly used in this
>>>> side of the pond than the US and masks are still required. So on journeys
>>>> there's many times you need to unlock your phone or access apps.
>>>
>>> express transit doesn't require authentication and even works if the
>>> battery is too low for the phone to be powered on.
>>
>> Who said anything about express transit? I'm talking about while sitting in
>> my seat and using my phone.
>
> you're the one who mentioned public transit.
>
> not only is no mask required for express transit, but the phone can
> have a dead battery and not even be powered on.

Whoosh!

Transport ≠ Transit. Nowhere here uses express transit. Try reading what I
wrote.

On 4/12/2022 2:22 AM, Chris wrote:

<snip>

> Whoosh!
>
> Transport ≠ Transit. Nowhere here uses express transit. Try reading what I
> wrote.

LOL, "If you don’t want to provide an answer, simply insert your own
topic and carry on."

In article <t33gd9$lke$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

> >>>>>>> the fact is that apple addressed the issue.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> They've *tried* to address the issue. It is still a problem for many.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> they more than tried. they completely reimplemented face id using a new
> >>>>> neural engine to work with masks.
> >>>
> >>> how would you have dealt with face id and masks?
> >>>
> >>> since you don't think apple properly resolved it, what's your solution?
> >>> be specific.
> >>
> >> lol. from the master non-specific generalisations.
> >>
> >> I don't need to come up with a solution in order to be able to complain
> >> about FaceID.
> >
> > you're avoiding answering the question because you know that apple did
> > everything they could,
>
> Possibly.

they very definitely did, having released *three* updates that directly
improve face id with masks, each successively better than the previous
ones.

you still have not answered what they could have done better.

> However, you're claiming that they've dealt with the issue. They
> haven't.

they have. see above.

again, how would *you* have dealt with the issue? be specific.

> It's a bit better for some. That's it.

which means they dealt with it.

face id with masks is more compute intensive, which means it's not
possible for it to work with older iphones where it can't reliably work
and without excessive delays. that's just reality.

what do you suggest they could have done to make it 'a bit better' for
most, or perhaps even everyone? again, be specific.

> Many (most?) still have to
> resort to insecure passcodes.

some do, and passcodes are as secure as the user wants them to be, the
longer the better, with letters and symbols mixed in being the most
secure.

a good tradeoff is a long numeric passcode (10+ digits) which is easy
to tap and long enough that the usual brute force attack is going to
take a *really* long time, far longer than the lifetime of anyone who
is interested in cracking it.

> > first with mask detection, then apple watch
> > unlock and finally face id that works with masks.
>
> "works" lol. I've watched my kid and wife both with iphone 12s not seeing
> any change with iOS 15.4.

did they set it up correctly?

face id with masks actually works quite well. it's not perfect all of
the time, nor would anyone expect it to be.

> > you said that was only 'trying', so again, how could they have done
> > better? be specific.
>
> I've never been a fan of FaceID. TouchID is better for many reasons.

and touch id is worse for others.

touch id doesn't work at all with gloves, which are common in colder
climates. it also doesn't work with wet or dirty fingers. some people
have fingerprints that are not readable and can *never* use touch id.

no system is perfect.

the reality is that touch id has problems in many more situations than
face id, with the sole exception of the pandemic, something that was
unexpected when face id was developed.

> If
> they had stuck with it the pandemic would have been a non-issue for *all*
> iphone users.

right, because apple has this magical crystal ball that can see into
the future. are you daft?

there was *no* way to know back in 2013, when face id began life in
apple's labs, to later be introduced in 2017 with the iphone x, that a
pandemic was coming in 2020 where masks would be common.

> >>>> Public transport is more commonly used in this
> >>>> side of the pond than the US and masks are still required. So on journeys
> >>>> there's many times you need to unlock your phone or access apps.
> >>>
> >>> express transit doesn't require authentication and even works if the
> >>> battery is too low for the phone to be powered on.
> >>
> >> Who said anything about express transit? I'm talking about while sitting in
> >> my seat and using my phone.
> >
> > you're the one who mentioned public transit.
> >
> > not only is no mask required for express transit, but the phone can
> > have a dead battery and not even be powered on.
>
> Whoosh!

whoosh right back.

> Transport ‚ Transit.

the feature known as express transit is used on public transport (also
called public transit), thus its name.

it's part of express mode, which allows for additional use cases where
authentication is not required and even if the battery is dead.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212171>
Use transit or payment cards, passes, your student ID, your car key,
and more without waking or unlocking your device, or authenticating
with Face ID, Touch ID, or your passcode. You might even be able to
use your card, pass, or key when your device needs to be charged.

<https://9to5mac.com/2021/11/16/apple-promotes-express-transit-mode-insi
de-the-wallet-app-to-london-users/>
It¹s been a couple of years since Apple launched the Express Transit
feature for users to pay for public transportation just by taking the
iPhone closer to an NFC terminal, without the need for an ID
verification.

The function, which has been available for London users for quite
some time, is now being promoted inside the Wallet app, even if
the user already has the Express Transit feature set.

<https://transit.applepay.apple/new-york>
Getting around NYC is easier and safer with Express Transit for
Apple Pay. Just tap your iPhone or Apple Watch and ride, there¹s
no need to use Face ID, Touch ID, or touch a vending machine or
card reader.

> Nowhere here uses express transit.

how is that apple's fault?

apple provided a solution, however, they can't force everyone to adopt
it.

> Try reading what I
> wrote.

i did.

try learning about what can and can't be done.

On 4/11/2022 8:19 AM, Chris wrote:

<snip>

> Shops aren't the only place. Public transport is more commonly used in this
> side of the pond than the US and masks are still required. So on journeys
> there's many times you need to unlock your phone or access apps.

In some areas of the U.S. public transport is still heavily used though
it's not likely to ever recover to pre-pandemic levels due to
remote-working. Masks are still required on a lot of public transit with
signs "No Mask, No Ride" posted.

One thing you'll notice on commuter trains is that virtually everyone is
on their phone, tablet, or laptop. It's very quiet. One day I was on the
train to San Francisco and two people were talking, in normal voices,
and someone asked them to be quiet, as if the train car were a library.

But the reality is that it's when checking out and paying at stores
where you most notice people struggling with FaceID and masks, and
sometimes just pulling out a credit card to pay, while apologizing for
holding up the line.

In article <t344k6$iv9$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> But the reality is that it's when checking out and paying at stores
> where you most notice people struggling with FaceID and masks, and
> sometimes just pulling out a credit card to pay, while apologizing for
> holding up the line.

that is not reality.

the reality is that people use apple pay with face id, authenticating
and even paying while the cashier is ringing up the items, which means
*no* delay to other customers.

pulling out a credit card would incur an even longer delay than using
apple pay.

On 4/12/2022 7:40 AM, nospam wrote:

> passcodes are as secure as the user wants them to be, the longer the
> better, with letters and symbols mixed in being the most secure. a
> good tradeoff is a long numeric passcode (10+ digits) which is easy
> to tap

I use a 6 digit pin which is much easier to tap than 10+ digits and I
can do it automatically in a second or so without thinking as
it becomes automatic.

> and long enough that the usual brute force attack is going to take a
> *really* long time, far longer than the lifetime of anyone who is
> interested in cracking it.

I don't need a lifetime, just a few hours to change passwords and
disable the phone. YMMV...

On 4/12/2022 8:26 AM, AJL wrote:
> On 4/12/2022 7:40 AM, nospam wrote:
>
>> passcodes are as secure as the user wants them to be, the longer the
>>  better, with letters and symbols mixed in being the most secure. a
>> good tradeoff is a long numeric passcode (10+ digits) which is easy
>> to tap
>
> I use a 6 digit pin which is much easier to tap than 10+ digits and I
> can do it automatically in a second or so without thinking as
> it becomes automatic.
>
>> and long enough that the usual brute force attack is going to take a
>>  *really* long time, far longer than the lifetime of anyone who is
>> interested in cracking it.
>
> I don't need a lifetime, just a few hours to change passwords and
> disable the phone. YMMV...

Not sure about the Pixel 6, but I suspect that it's got the same
protection against brute force attack as the iPhone. You can't just keep
entering the wrong pass code.

On 4/12/2022 8:52 AM, sms wrote:
> On 4/12/2022 8:26 AM, AJL wrote:
>> On 4/12/2022 7:40 AM, nospam wrote:
>>
>>> passcodes are as secure as the user wants them to be, the longer
>>> the better, with letters and symbols mixed in being the most
>>> secure. a good tradeoff is a long numeric passcode (10+ digits)
>>> which is easy to tap
>>
>> I use a 6 digit pin which is much easier to tap than 10+ digits and
>> I can do it automatically in a second or so without thinking as it
>> becomes automatic.
>>
>>> and long enough that the usual brute force attack is going to
>>> take a *really* long time, far longer than the lifetime of anyone
>>> who is interested in cracking it.
>>
>> I don't need a lifetime, just a few hours to change passwords and
>> disable the phone. YMMV...
>
> Not sure about the Pixel 6, but I suspect that it's got the same
> protection against brute force attack as the iPhone. You can't just
> keep entering the wrong pass code.

Now that you mention it I do seem to remember a 10 try limit but I just
looked in my phone's (seems like 1000s of) settings and couldn't find
it. Its a Galaxy S10+ if anyone else knows...

In article <t345ng$s02$1@dont-email.me>, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:

>
> > passcodes are as secure as the user wants them to be, the longer the
> > better, with letters and symbols mixed in being the most secure. a
> > good tradeoff is a long numeric passcode (10+ digits) which is easy
> > to tap
>
> I use a 6 digit pin which is much easier to tap than 10+ digits and I
> can do it automatically in a second or so without thinking as
> it becomes automatic.

it's easier, but less secure. there's a tradeoff between security and
convenience. different people have different threat models.

> > and long enough that the usual brute force attack is going to take a
> > *really* long time, far longer than the lifetime of anyone who is
> > interested in cracking it.
>
> I don't need a lifetime, just a few hours to change passwords and
> disable the phone. YMMV...

you don't, but someone trying to crack it might.

a 4 digit passcode can be cracked in less than about 13 minutes, a 6
digit passcode in less than about 22 hours and a 10 digit passcode will
take around 25 years.

alphanumeric passcodes push the amount of time into thousands or
millions of years, however, they're a lot less convenient than a 10+
digit numeric passcode, which offers sufficient security for most
people without much hassle. a phone number with a few extra digits
works well (just don't use your own phone number).