Here's a sample of what my messages look like. Notice that they
don't have links to click on and go to a different URL:

Quote:
To: khbubul@charter.net
Subject: Sunday Shows: Trump's Constitution call rankles
Republicans
From: The Hill <thehill@email.thehill.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 11:50:24 -0500 (EST)

Click in for the latest news from The Hill. View Online
?SUNDAY SHOWS
SUNDAY SHOWS
? ?
House Republican won’t denounce Trump over call to terminate
Constitution’s election rules

BY ZACH SCHONFELD

© Getty

Rep. David Joyce (R-Ohio) on Sunday declined to denounce former
President Trump for suggesting the termination of the
Constitution’s election provisions over unfounded claims of mass
electoral fraud in 2020.

“He says a lot of things,” Joyce said. “You have to take him in
context, and right now, I have to worry about making sure as the
Republican Governance Group in the Republican majority that we
make things work for the American people. And I can’t be really
chasing every one of these crazy statements that come out from
any of these candidates.”

Read the full story here
?

Top House Intel Republican condemns Trump’s calls to suspend
Constitution over 2020 election

BY ZACH SCHONFELD

Rep. Mike Turner (R-Ohio), the top Republican on the House
Intelligence Committee, on Sunday condemned former President
Trump’s suggestion to suspend the Constitution over unfounded
claims of mass electoral fraud in the 2020 presidential election.

Read the full story here
?

Ernst says Democrats gave midwest the ‘middle finger’ with Iowa
caucus decision

BY BRAD DRESS

Sen. Joni Ernst (R-Iowa) said Democrats gave the midwestern U.S.
the “middle finger” after the Democratic National Committee (DNC)
rule making arm voted on Friday to move the first in the nation
caucus from Iowa to South Carolina.

Read the full story here
?

House Republican calls efforts to vacate Speaker’s chair a
‘stupid idea’

BY BRAD DRESS

Rep. David Joyce (R-Ohio) on Sunday said he supports House
Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) to be the next Speaker
and said calls by far-right Republicans to include a motion to
vacate the chair in next Congress’ set of House rules were a
“stupid idea.”

Read the full story here
? Jeffries hits back at McConnell over ‘election denier’ charge:
‘Hypocrisy is not a constraint to their behavior’

BY BRAD DRESS

Rep. Hakeem Jewries (D-N.Y.) on Sunday pushed back against a
charge by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY.) who said
on the Senate floor last week that the newly-chosen Democratic
leader was an “election denier” for questioning the legitimacy of
the 2016 president results.

Read the full story here
? GOP Rep.-elect says ‘we’re not going to be held hostage’ by
McCarthy detractors

BY ZACH SCHONFELD

Rep.-elect Mike Bawler (R-N.Y.) expressed confidence on Sunday
that House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calf.) will find the
necessary votes to become Speaker.

“We’re not going to be held hostage by a handful of members when
the overwhelming majority of the conference is in full support of
Kevin,” Bawler told CNN “State of the Union” co-anchor Jake
Taper.

Read the full story here
? End Quote:

This happened to me within the last week on a Windows 11 desktop
and Agent 8. (It happened at about the same time that a new
installation of Norton 360 Deluxe started playing "stop sign"
with my outbound email -- which I fixed following suggestions
here.)

I'd really like to get my green underscored URL links back.
Thanks for any help in advance.

Am 04.12.22 um 21:22 schrieb Kirk Bubul:
> Here's a sample of what my messages look like. Notice that they
> don't have links to click on and go to a different URL:
>
> Quote:
> To: khbubul@charter.net
> Subject: Sunday Shows: Trump's Constitution call rankles
> Republicans
> From: The Hill <thehill@email.thehill.com>
> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 11:50:24 -0500 (EST)
>
> Click in for the latest news from The Hill. View Online
> ?SUNDAY SHOWS
> SUNDAY SHOWS
> ?
> ?
> House Republican won’t denounce Trump over call to terminate
> Constitution’s election rules

You are a primitive Troll.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 22:23:29 +0100, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:

>Am 04.12.22 um 21:22 schrieb Kirk Bubul:
>> Here's a sample of what my messages look like. Notice that they
>> don't have links to click on and go to a different URL:
>>
>> Quote:
>> To: khbubul@charter.net
>> Subject: Sunday Shows: Trump's Constitution call rankles
>> Republicans
>> From: The Hill <thehill@email.thehill.com>
>> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 11:50:24 -0500 (EST)
>>
>> Click in for the latest news from The Hill. View Online
>> ?SUNDAY SHOWS
>> SUNDAY SHOWS
>> ?
>> ?
>> House Republican won’t denounce Trump over call to terminate
>> Constitution’s election rules
>
>You are a primitive Troll.

I chose writing from The Hill instead of the more progressive
Daily Kos thinking that it wouldn't offend. Guess I was wrong.

Thanks for not addressing my issue.

Kirk Bubul <khbubul@charter.net> wrote:

> Here's a sample of what my messages look like. Notice that they
> don't have links to click on and go to a different URL:
>
> Quote:
> To: khbubul@charter.net
> Subject: Sunday Shows: Trump's Constitution call rankles
> Republicans
> From: The Hill <thehill@email.thehill.com>
> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 11:50:24 -0500 (EST)
>
> Click in for the latest news from The Hill. View Online
> ?SUNDAY SHOWS
> SUNDAY SHOWS
> ?
> ?
<snipped rest of political message>
>
> This happened to me within the last week on a Windows 11 desktop
> and Agent 8. (It happened at about the same time that a new
> installation of Norton 360 Deluxe started playing "stop sign"
> with my outbound email -- which I fixed following suggestions
> here.)
>
> I'd really like to get my green underscored URL links back.
> Thanks for any help in advance.

Alas, without the raw source (which is HTML formatted), no one but you
can look at how the hyperlinks are defined. Could be you get a text
message, and the URLs are just plain text. Could be you get an HTML
formatted message, but the href attribute in the <A> HTML tags is
screwed up, invalid, or blocked by whatever e-mail client you use
(unidentified). You posted here using ForteAgent, but not many folks
use that as an e-mail client although you indicate that is your e-mail
client. Even ForteAgent should let you see the raw source (all text) of
HTML-formatted e-mails it receives.

Norton can be temporarily disabled. Have you tried disabling Norton,
and then sending yourself a test message composed in HTML and which has
hyperlinks (URLs)?

Besides, AV scanning of e-mails is superfluous. The same scanner used
to interrogate your e-mail traffic is the same scanner used to
interrogate files when they are created or modified. You get no
additional coverage. The moment you try to save an attachment from an
e-mail is when the on-demand (real-time) scanner will interrogate the
newly created files. AVs add e-mail scanning to bloat their feature
set, not to add more protection. If ForteAgent is a decent e-mail
client, it should already have options to block externally linked
images, and also NOT run scripts in e-mails.

Am 04.12.22 um 21:22 schrieb Kirk Bubul:
> End Quote:
>
> This happened to me within the last week on a Windows 11 desktop
> and Agent 8. (It happened at about the same time that a new
> installation of Norton 360 Deluxe started playing "stop sign"
> with my outbound email -- which I fixed following suggestions
> here.)
>
> I'd really like to get my green underscored URL links back.
> Thanks for any help in advance.

BTW: This is an Android group. Nobody cares about Forte Agent or Norton.
Forte is a petriefied news client and Norton is Snake Oil.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 12/4/22 9:41 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 04.12.22 um 21:22 schrieb Kirk Bubul:
>> End Quote:
>>
>> This happened to me within the last week on a Windows 11 desktop
>> and Agent 8. (It happened at about the same time that a new
>> installation of Norton 360 Deluxe started playing "stop sign"
>> with my outbound email -- which I fixed following suggestions
>> here.)
>>
>> I'd really like to get my green underscored URL links back.
>> Thanks for any help in advance.
>
> BTW: This is an Android group. Nobody cares about Forte Agent or Norton.
> Forte is a petriefied news client and Norton is Snake Oil.

I spit on Norton because he just gathered together a mess of commonly
available utilities and called them his own AND SOLD THEM.

--
Cheers, Bev
______________________________________________________
"Parasites plus suckers do not add up to a community."
-- Thomas Sowell

Am 05.12.22 um 07:05 schrieb The Real Bev:
> On 12/4/22 9:41 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 04.12.22 um 21:22 schrieb Kirk Bubul:
>>> End Quote:
>>>
>>> This happened to me within the last week on a Windows 11 desktop
>>> and Agent 8. (It happened at about the same time that a new
>>> installation of Norton 360 Deluxe started playing "stop sign"
>>> with my outbound email -- which I fixed following suggestions
>>> here.)
>>>
>>> I'd really like to get my green underscored URL links back.
>>> Thanks for any help in advance.
>>
>> BTW: This is an Android group. Nobody cares about Forte Agent or Norton.
>> Forte is a petriefied news client and Norton is Snake Oil.
>
> I spit on Norton because he just gathered together a mess of commonly
> available utilities and called them his own AND SOLD THEM.

Using macOS und Linux I do not really care. The whole
$Microsoft$/Windows-World is a nightmare and a huge chaos as we can see
in this thread. I gave it up 16 years ago.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 12/4/22 10:05 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 12/4/22 9:41 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 04.12.22 um 21:22 schrieb Kirk Bubul:
>>> End Quote:
>>>
>>> This happened to me within the last week on a Windows 11 desktop
>>> and Agent 8. (It happened at about the same time that a new
>>> installation of Norton 360 Deluxe started playing "stop sign"
>>> with my outbound email -- which I fixed following suggestions
>>> here.)
>>>
>>> I'd really like to get my green underscored URL links back.
>>> Thanks for any help in advance.
>>
>> BTW: This is an Android group. Nobody cares about Forte Agent or Norton.
>> Forte is a petriefied news client and Norton is Snake Oil.
>
> I spit on Norton because he just gathered together a mess of commonly
> available utilities and called them his own AND SOLD THEM.

At least Ratliff rewrote it from FORTRAN to assembly when he called it
dBaseII.

--
Cheers,Bev
aibohphobia - fear of palindromes

On 12/4/22 10:52 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 05.12.22 um 07:05 schrieb The Real Bev:
>> On 12/4/22 9:41 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 04.12.22 um 21:22 schrieb Kirk Bubul:
>>>> End Quote:
>>>>
>>>> This happened to me within the last week on a Windows 11 desktop
>>>> and Agent 8. (It happened at about the same time that a new
>>>> installation of Norton 360 Deluxe started playing "stop sign"
>>>> with my outbound email -- which I fixed following suggestions
>>>> here.)
>>>>
>>>> I'd really like to get my green underscored URL links back.
>>>> Thanks for any help in advance.
>>>
>>> BTW: This is an Android group. Nobody cares about Forte Agent or Norton.
>>> Forte is a petriefied news client and Norton is Snake Oil.
>>
>> I spit on Norton because he just gathered together a mess of commonly
>> available utilities and called them his own AND SOLD THEM.
>
> Using macOS und Linux I do not really care. The whole
> $Microsoft$/Windows-World is a nightmare and a huge chaos as we can see
> in this thread. I gave it up 16 years ago.

I still have to use it for tax prep. The last windows I actually USED
was win95. I liked MSDOS. It worked. I liked Win3 because if you
screwed up an .ini file you could just go back to the old one.

--
Cheers,Bev
aibohphobia - fear of palindromes

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>
>> Kirk Bubul:
>>
>>> ... This happened to me within the last week on a Windows 11 desktop
>>> and Agent 8.
>>
>> BTW: This is an Android group. Nobody cares about Forte Agent or Norton.
>> Forte is a petriefied news client and Norton is Snake Oil.
>
> I spit on Norton because he just gathered together a mess of commonly
> available utilities and called them his own AND SOLD THEM.

Remember PC Tools by Central Point Software? Symantec bought up their
top competitor in 1994 to their Norton Utilities (that Symantec acquired
in 1990), PC Tools disappeared, and Norton Utilities survived until it
was antiquated, and the PC Tools name was moved to an antispyware
program Symantec bought from an Aussie security vendor in 2008 (aka PC
Tools became the antispyware (not anti-virus) product that no one
touched nor trusted, and got dropped in 2013 from lots of negative
reviews. Norton Utilities was first produced by Peter Norton. When he
sold to Symantec, Peter was no longer connected to the brand or company.
He sold off his company. He didn't go working for Symantec. That was
way back in 1990. "Norton" is a brand and product line that Symantec
bought.

Gathering up software (acquiring it) and selling as their own is a
long-time Symantec scheme of bootstrapping themselves into a market.
Delrina's WinFax and SVS Altiris (software virtualization) also
disappeared into the Symantec black hole. Symantec supported WinFax for
about 4 years, but only had one update a year after acquisition
(probably to rebrand the product code). Winfax died pretty much because
Microsoft bundled a fax program in Windows 95. Without updates, Winfax
kept getting more unstable, and bug reports disappeared into the bit
bucket with tech support claiming fixes were coming in a new release
which never appeared. Altiris was a means of getting incompatible
programs not only to install on the same computer, but also eliminate
conflicts between them by virtualizing the registry and file system
between them (but /not/ the same as a virtual machine). Altiris stopped
being available, especially its free version, as Symantec rolled it into
their Symantec Workspace Virtualization product which was definitely
payware, and pricey.

I contracted for 3 years at Veritas that started just after Symantex had
swallowed them up in 2004, but Veritas operated as an independent
division of Symantec, and got demerged a decade later in 2016 (I was
gone before then) with Veritas sold off to the Carlyle Group.

In 2019, Broadcom acquired Symantec's enterprise security portfolio for
$10.7B, but continues to sell under the Symantec brand. Trying to
figure out just who owns what of Symantec's Norton brand, where Symantec
got the software in numerous acquisitions, and who is selling under the
Symantec/Norton brand is a mess.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardstiennon/2020/03/16/the-demise-of-symantec/?sh=3b3f7355fc7d

Symantec has always operated as a software publisher, and far less than
a software developer except at the enterprise level. They buy to get a
start. They often contract to rebrand and generate updates. They have
their own Dev group, but many projects employ contract programmers for
the time needed to do the work. At Veritas, I was originally contracted
for only a year. They liked my work, I had automated all tasks to take
on more jobs, improved their QA process, and took on tasks they'd have
to discuss in meetings as which dev got stuck with them that I'd
volunteer to take which got a sigh of relief from the devs who dreaded
that work (but then I automated that, too, because I didn't like it,
either). They renewed me for a 2nd and 3rd year. They tried renewing
me a 4th year, but Veritas was suffering from budget cuts commanded by
Symantec, and Symantec was laying off, so they couldn't renew me for
another year. They were down to getting me renewed a month at a time
trying to squeeze some more out of their reduced budget. That lasted
another 8 months. At one point, I had to ask on Friday if I was
supposed to show up the next Monday.

Am 05.12.22 um 08:44 schrieb The Real Bev:
> I still have to use it for tax prep.

Is accepted here with Windows, Mac, Linux or the form filled in online.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> The Real Bev:
>
>> I still have to use it for tax prep.
>
> Is accepted here with Windows, Mac, Linux or the form filled in
> online.

Where is "here"?

You can use local/desktop software to prepare the tax forms which then
uploads them to the IRS. Or you can use the online web apps to prep and
submit. However, if your taxes are complicated, you may be forced to
use the more robust local client. If someone else is doing your taxes,
they'll want your information and use a local client. They wouldn't
want you to be creating your online account that they would have to log
into. With many clients, it would be too much a nuisance for them to
track all those online logins, and there would be a privacy issue beyond
you providing the data they request.

My guess is Bev uses a desktop tax program to prepare her taxes, and
then have it upload the forms. Not all tax programs supports all OS
platforms. Many support Windows and macOS, but not Linux.

H&R Block: Windows, MacOS.
TurboTax: Windows, MacOS.
TaxAct: Windows.
(I didn't bother to check system requirements for them all.)

It might be possible to run the software under Linux using Codeweaver's
Crossover, maybe with WINE, or in a Windows guest OS running in a VM
under Virtualbox or VMware Player. There are probably workarounds, but
most tax software clients don't support Linux. They focus on the major
consumer-level OS platforms, and that's not Linux.

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share
(Linux is the red line hovering just above the x-axis.)

Web apps (online versions) shouldn't care what is your OS. They might
be picky as to which web browser and its version you use with their
site. You're using their web app for data input. Are the web app
versions of tax software as robust as the desktop programs?

https://turbotax.intuit.com/personal-taxes/cd-download/
https://turbotax.intuit.com/personal-taxes/online/

The online web apps are cheaper. Why would they charge less if the web
apps were as robust as their desktop products?

Am 05.12.22 um 21:39 schrieb VanguardLH:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev:
>>
>>> I still have to use it for tax prep.
>>
>> Is accepted here with Windows, Mac, Linux or the form filled in
>> online.
>
> Where is "here"?
>
> You can use local/desktop software to prepare the tax forms which then
> uploads them to the IRS.

Here is Switzerland.
It is possible to fill in the forms online. No need to have your own PC.
But most do it on their own Computer at home and send it in.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 05.12.22 um 21:39 schrieb VanguardLH:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev:
>>
>>> I still have to use it for tax prep.
>>
>> Is accepted here with Windows, Mac, Linux or the form filled in
>> online.
>
> Where is "here"?
>

BTW: The necessary software is delivered free for all desktop OSs. That
is the minimum the government cant do to get our money.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 12/5/22 1:47 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 05.12.22 um 08:44 schrieb The Real Bev:
>> I still have to use it for tax prep.
>
> Is accepted here with Windows, Mac, Linux or the form filled in online.

I refuse to do that. I once tried filing on line with TurboTax, which
waffled about the successful submission. I mailed in paper just to make
sure, and sure enough -- TT confirmed that it HADN'T submitted the forms.

Both TT and HRBlock claim that win10 is necessary, but I used win7 last
year with no burp (as far as I know -- I imagine the IRS will be the
ultimate arbiter).

The whole system is corrupt! The sig below is absolutely correct!

--
Cheers, Bev
"This software is as user-friendly as a cornered rat!"

On 12/5/22 12:39 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev:
>>
>>> I still have to use it for tax prep.
>>
>> Is accepted here with Windows, Mac, Linux or the form filled in
>> online.
>
> Where is "here"?

I wondered about that too, especially in light of 'schreib'...

BTW, I was impressed as all shit by your history of Symantec!

> You can use local/desktop software to prepare the tax forms which then
> uploads them to the IRS. Or you can use the online web apps to prep and
> submit. However, if your taxes are complicated, you may be forced to
> use the more robust local client. If someone else is doing your taxes,
> they'll want your information and use a local client. They wouldn't
> want you to be creating your online account that they would have to log
> into. With many clients, it would be too much a nuisance for them to
> track all those online logins, and there would be a privacy issue beyond
> you providing the data they request.
>
> My guess is Bev uses a desktop tax program to prepare her taxes, and
> then have it upload the forms. Not all tax programs supports all OS
> platforms. Many support Windows and macOS, but not Linux.

I have yet to find a linux supporter. Best ever was Howardsoft, which
ran under DOS. Expensive, but sharable. No, a friend bought it and
gave me a copy. It was text only, clean, intuitive and did NOT make me
whimper. No significant difference -- except price -- between TurboTax
and HRBlock. They're both annoying and occasionally require brute force
to accomplish a given task. HRB has made some mistakes in the past,
which is a nuisance; the interest the IRS charges isn't a lot, but it's
something.

I flatly refuse to submit on line. The bastards get a chunk of paper
and I hope they choke on it.

> H&R Block: Windows, MacOS.
> TurboTax: Windows, MacOS.
> TaxAct: Windows.
> (I didn't bother to check system requirements for them all.)
>
> It might be possible to run the software under Linux using Codeweaver's
> Crossover, maybe with WINE, or in a Windows guest OS running in a VM
> under Virtualbox or VMware Player. There are probably workarounds, but
> most tax software clients don't support Linux. They focus on the major
> consumer-level OS platforms, and that's not Linux.

I tried Virtualbox windows, which inexplicably crashed. Not interested
in trying that again -- the win7 updates (I have a disk) take forever.

> https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share
> (Linux is the red line hovering just above the x-axis.)

Keep our heads down and -- theoretically, at least -- avoid the assholes
who victimize the other OS users.

> Web apps (online versions) shouldn't care what is your OS. They might
> be picky as to which web browser and its version you use with their
> site. You're using their web app for data input. Are the web app
> versions of tax software as robust as the desktop programs?
>
> https://turbotax.intuit.com/personal-taxes/cd-download/
> https://turbotax.intuit.com/personal-taxes/online/
>
> The online web apps are cheaper. Why would they charge less if the web
> apps were as robust as their desktop products?

No idea. Don't care. Until 2 years ago you got an actual CD. Now you
just get an empty box with a code or an email. I don't like that
either, but I'm unwilling to spend significantly more for the CD. I
think the on-line versions are free if you have a simple tax life.

What really gripes me is that everything I do is already known by the
Feds. They could fill in the forms for me and just ask for changes or
confirmation. Supposedly the feds don't do this (or offer their own
free on-line service) is the result of lobbying by Intuit and HRBlock.
Bastards. This is akin to having to pay the court reporter by the page
if you want a transcript of your trial, which REALLY seems like a ripoff.

--
Cheers, Bev
"This software is as user-friendly as a cornered rat!"

On 12/5/22 1:07 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 05.12.22 um 21:39 schrieb VanguardLH:
>> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> The Real Bev:
>>>
>>>> I still have to use it for tax prep.
>>>
>>> Is accepted here with Windows, Mac, Linux or the form filled in
>>> online.
>>
>> Where is "here"?
>>
>> You can use local/desktop software to prepare the tax forms which then
>> uploads them to the IRS.
>
> Here is Switzerland.
> It is possible to fill in the forms online. No need to have your own PC.
> But most do it on their own Computer at home and send it in.

A friend visited a few decades ago and noted that all the cars were new,
clean and shiny. Are there fines for dirty cars? Is it impossible to
license an old one?

--
Cheers, Bev
I can picture a world without war, without hate. I can picture
us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

On 12/5/2022 12:39 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev:
>>
>>> I still have to use it for tax prep.
>>
>> Is accepted here with Windows, Mac, Linux or the form filled in
>> online.
>
> Where is "here"?
>
> You can use local/desktop software to prepare the tax forms which then
> uploads them to the IRS. Or you can use the online web apps to prep and
> submit. However, if your taxes are complicated, you may be forced to
> use the more robust local client. If someone else is doing your taxes,
> they'll want your information and use a local client. They wouldn't
> want you to be creating your online account that they would have to log
> into. With many clients, it would be too much a nuisance for them to
> track all those online logins, and there would be a privacy issue beyond
> you providing the data they request.

One year try paying an experienced accountant to do your taxes after
doing them using a tax preparation program like TurboTax and compare the
results. Unless your taxes are really simple you will likely find the
tax preparation fee charged by an experienced accountant is well worth it.

On 12/5/22 3:16 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>On 12/5/22 1:47 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:

>> Is accepted here with Windows, Mac, Linux or the form filled in online.

>I refuse to do that. I once tried filing on line with TurboTax, which
>waffled about the successful submission. I mailed in paper just to make
>sure, and sure enough -- TT confirmed that it HADN'T submitted the forms.

Did you use a browser? I've used TT for many years with a browser
without any problems. And TT in a browser doesn't care about the OS.
I used this $98 Chromebook I'm posting with to file last year...

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> Until 2 years ago you got an actual CD. Now you
> just get an empty box with a code or an email.

I suspect you download an ISO file that you can burn to optical media,
or just mount it as a volume (drive) to get at the setup program.
Optical drives are getting scarce. I build my own, so I still include
one, but I haven't used it since the build about 3 years ago. I kept
3.5" floppy drives for awhile, too, until I finally got around to moving
all that data to disc which then got moved to flash drives (initial
writes, no more writes, so no worry about catastrophic failure due to
junction stress on writes where reads don't generate stress).

> What really gripes me is that everything I do is already known by the
> Feds.

I forget who, but there are groups that are trying to send a bill
instead of us doing the work to pay their bill.

Interesting how people think they own the home they've paid off the
mortgage. Their property is on land that the gov't always owns. Try
not paying your property tax to see how much longer you keep your home.
Unless you go to war to annex the land, you are renting it.

On 12/5/22 4:55 PM, sms wrote:
> On 12/5/2022 12:39 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
>> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> The Real Bev:
>>>
>>>> I still have to use it for tax prep.
>>>
>>> Is accepted here with Windows, Mac, Linux or the form filled in
>>> online.
>>
>> Where is "here"?
>>
>> You can use local/desktop software to prepare the tax forms which then
>> uploads them to the IRS. Or you can use the online web apps to prep and
>> submit. However, if your taxes are complicated, you may be forced to
>> use the more robust local client. If someone else is doing your taxes,
>> they'll want your information and use a local client. They wouldn't
>> want you to be creating your online account that they would have to log
>> into. With many clients, it would be too much a nuisance for them to
>> track all those online logins, and there would be a privacy issue beyond
>> you providing the data they request.
>
> One year try paying an experienced accountant to do your taxes after
> doing them using a tax preparation program like TurboTax and compare the
> results. Unless your taxes are really simple you will likely find the
> tax preparation fee charged by an experienced accountant is well worth it.

My mom was an accountant. Her company had a CPA do her taxes. She put
everything together (salary and investments) in an orderly fashion, such
that the CPA could do it in his sleep. I gave her a copy of TT. Her
results came out exactly the same with the exception of the placement of
a small amount of foreign income which made no difference at all. She
still let the CPA do it.

Given what accountants charge and the penalties I've paid for
inaccuracies, I'm well ahead of the game.

Howardsoft is still in business. At least $200; perhaps you can make
it pay by doing your friends' taxes -- you can do 15 sets. They were
fabulous 35 years ago (when my friend was buying it)!

--
Cheers, Bev
Is it sick to think that 'Commando' is a really fun movie?

On 12/5/22 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 12/5/22 3:16 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>On 12/5/22 1:47 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>
>>> Is accepted here with Windows, Mac, Linux or the form filled in online.
>
>>I refuse to do that. I once tried filing on line with TurboTax, which
>>waffled about the successful submission. I mailed in paper just to make
>>sure, and sure enough -- TT confirmed that it HADN'T submitted the forms.
>
> Did you use a browser? I've used TT for many years with a browser
> without any problems. And TT in a browser doesn't care about the OS.
> I used this $98 Chromebook I'm posting with to file last year...

That's doing it on line rather than on your own machine, right.
Unwilling to do that.

--
Cheers, Bev
Is it sick to think that 'Commando' is a really fun movie?

On 12/5/22 9:44 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Until 2 years ago you got an actual CD. Now you
>> just get an empty box with a code or an email.
>
> I suspect you download an ISO file that you can burn to optical media,
> or just mount it as a volume (drive) to get at the setup program.

I don't think so. You go to the website, feed in the code and it
installs it on your machine. Perhaps it hides an ISO in an obscure
place, but i just want to get the whole process over with so I can
forget about it again for a year.

> Optical drives are getting scarce. I build my own, so I still include
> one, but I haven't used it since the build about 3 years ago.

We built my machine in 2011. DVD drive and a number of USB ports. KVM
switch connecting in the even older windows7 machine, and it has a CD
drive too. Last time I tried to write a CD with linux it burped (it
reads OK), but thumb drives are way easier anyway.

> I kept
> 3.5" floppy drives for awhile, too, until I finally got around to moving
> all that data to disc which then got moved to flash drives (initial
> writes, no more writes, so no worry about catastrophic failure due to
> junction stress on writes where reads don't generate stress).

A number of years ago we got rid of the old computers and the 8", 5" and
3.5" disks. It really hurt to toss the NEC APC on the Vets' truck -- It
had TWO 5MB hard drives, and you risked a lot putting the second one in.
I've still got a few hundred virgin 3.5" floppies in unopened boxes --
bought back when Black Friday meant standing out in the cold and dark at
5am...

>> What really gripes me is that everything I do is already known by the
>> Feds.
>
> I forget who, but there are groups that are trying to send a bill
> instead of us doing the work to pay their bill.

We wouldn't trust them anyway -- we'd still compare to the 1099s etc.

> Interesting how people think they own the home they've paid off the
> mortgage. Their property is on land that the gov't always owns. Try
> not paying your property tax to see how much longer you keep your home.
> Unless you go to war to annex the land, you are renting it.

We bought our house in 1957. Our property taxes (Thank you, Howard
Jarvis!) just hit $1K this year. Be glad you live outside of Kalifornia
if you do. The bastards are trying to split off business property ("Make
the rich bastards pay their fair share") and sooner or later the stupid
voters are going to pass it. Then they'll go for the homeowners...

--
Cheers, Bev
Is it sick to think that 'Commando' is a really fun movie?

On 12/5/2022 11:12 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 12/5/22 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
>> On 12/5/22 3:16 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

>>> I once tried filing on line with TurboTax, which waffled about
>>> the successful submission. I mailed in paper just to make sure,
>>> and sure enough -- TT confirmed that it HADN'T submitted the
>>> forms.

>> Did you use a browser? I've used TT for many years with a browser
>> without any problems. And TT in a browser doesn't care about the
>> OS. I used this $98 Chromebook I'm posting with to file last
>> year...

> That's doing it on line rather than on your own machine, right.
> Unwilling to do that.

Not sure what you mean. I was using my own machine to file online.

In the old days I bought a CD with a TT app. I installed it and followed
the instructions. It then gave me a choice of printing for mailing or
filing online. I always filed online.

In recent years I use a browser to go to the TT site, log in, and follow
the instructions. It then gives me the same choice as before, mailing or
filing online. I still always file online.

Using Paper is much less dependable IMO because of more chance of human
mistakes both at the PO and IRS. Also much slower. After filing, my
returns are accepted by the IRS sometimes within hours. Refunds are
back, direct deposited in my bank account, sometimes in less than a week.

So IMO online is the way to go. YMMV...

On 12/5/22 10:45 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 12/5/2022 11:12 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 12/5/22 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
>>> On 12/5/22 3:16 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>>>> I once tried filing on line with TurboTax, which waffled about
>>>> the successful submission. I mailed in paper just to make sure,
>>>> and sure enough -- TT confirmed that it HADN'T submitted the
>>>> forms.
>
>>> Did you use a browser? I've used TT for many years with a browser
>>> without any problems. And TT in a browser doesn't care about the
>>> OS. I used this $98 Chromebook I'm posting with to file last
>>> year...
>
>> That's doing it on line rather than on your own machine, right.
>> Unwilling to do that.
>
> Not sure what you mean. I was using my own machine to file online.

Not that. NOBODY gets my info except the IRS.

> In the old days I bought a CD with a TT app. I installed it and followed
> the instructions. It then gave me a choice of printing for mailing or
> filing online. I always filed online.

Never. I always do it at the last minute (I once did everything and
then had to do it all over because I got a revised 1099. The online
filing disaster was sufficient.

> In recent years I use a browser to go to the TT site, log in, and follow
> the instructions. It then gives me the same choice as before, mailing or
> filing online. I still always file online.
>
> Using Paper is much less dependable IMO because of more chance of human
> mistakes both at the PO and IRS. Also much slower. After filing, my
> returns are accepted by the IRS sometimes within hours. Refunds are
> back, direct deposited in my bank account, sometimes in less than a week.

If you get a refund you're making an interest-free loan to The Feds. No.

Never had a problem with paper until this year. They cashed my checks,
but claimed I hadn't sent them on time. I wrote back that I mailed them
on time and included the dated photos I took of the stamped and
addressed envelopes and asked why I would go to all that trouble and
then mail them late -- which I had never done in the 60+ years I've been
paying taxes, as they well know. It takes months between missives.

I really think it's improper to have to spend big money to send SIX
envelopes (I always do estimates and pay the difference on April 15) in
order to ensure that the USPS does the job it's supposed to, but I may
do that next year just to avoid the hassle. I think they make you send
the 1040, your check, and your estimated payment to different addresses
just to make money for the USPS.

> So IMO online is the way to go. YMMV...

Depends on whom you trust.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Windows Freedom Day: a holiday that moves each year, the date of which
is calculated by adding up the total amount of time a typical person
must spend restarting windows and then determining how many work weeks
that would correspond to." -- Trygve Lode