novaBBS - comp.mobile.android

Re: Android AV

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by: Alan Browne - Fri, 27 Jan 2023 13:00 UTC

On 2023-01-26 23:43, Jolly Roger wrote:
> Wrong. Apple spends $15 BILLION a year on research and development,
> which is objectively more than every other high tech company. Arlen
> *hates* facts about Apple. Apple lives in Arlen's head 24/7 rent free.
> He is so*tormented* by a company he irrationally hates that he
> literally spends every minute of every day trolling the Apple news
> groups telling absolute*lies* in a lame attempt to disrupt the Apple
> news groups. He is a pathetic and sad excuse of a human being.

As long as you reply, you give the troll food, water and air.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

Re: Android AV

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Subject: Re: Android AV
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by: Gronk - Fri, 27 Jan 2023 15:06 UTC

Jolly Roger wrote:

>> Apple has the lowest R&D spend in _all_ similar high tech companies
>
> Wrong. Apple spends $15 BILLION a year on research and development,
> which is objectively more than every other high tech company.

Why Apple Inc. Spends Less On Research And Development Than You Think
<https://www.ibtimes.com/why-apple-inc-spends-less-research-development-you-think-1954667>

Re: Android AV

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From: jollyro...@pobox.com (Jolly Roger)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Android AV
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by: Jolly Roger - Fri, 27 Jan 2023 15:27 UTC

On 2023-01-27, Gronk <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>>> Apple has the lowest R&D spend in _all_ similar high tech companies
>>
>> Wrong. Apple spends $15 BILLION a year on research and development,
>> which is objectively more than every other high tech company.
>
> Why Apple Inc. Spends Less On Research And Development Than You Think
><https://www.ibtimes.com/why-apple-inc-spends-less-research-development-you-think-1954667>

Talk about weak... You had to go all the way back to *2015* to find that
old, crufty out-of-date article. : D

Meanwhile back here in the present:

<https://www.statista.com/statistics/273006/apple-expenses-for-research-and-development/>

"Apple Inc. spent a record *26.25 billion* U.S. dollars on research and
development in its 2022 fiscal year, increasing by about four billion
from its 2021 total. The company’s massive research and development
budget over the years has led to the release of various famous products
including the iPhone, iPod, MacBook, and iPad."

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Re: Android AV

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Subject: Re: Android AV
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by: sms - Fri, 27 Jan 2023 15:41 UTC

On 1/27/2023 7:06 AM, Gronk wrote:

<snip>

> Why Apple Inc. Spends Less On Research And Development Than You Think
> <https://www.ibtimes.com/why-apple-inc-spends-less-research-development-you-think-1954667>

Good article.

The idea that a company should spend, unnecessarily, on more R&D, just
to increase the percentage of R&D in relation to revenue or profit is
ludicrous.

The whole idea is to leverage your R&D spending to increase volumes, and
hence revenue and profit so the R&D spending becomes a lower percentage.

Other companies would love to have such high revenue and profit that R&D
spending, as a percentage of expenditures, goes down.

Re: Android AV

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From: jollyro...@pobox.com (Jolly Roger)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
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by: Jolly Roger - Fri, 27 Jan 2023 16:55 UTC

On 2023-01-27, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 1/27/2023 7:06 AM, Gronk wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Why Apple Inc. Spends Less On Research And Development Than You Think
>> <https://www.ibtimes.com/why-apple-inc-spends-less-research-development-you-think-1954667>
>
> Good article.

No. Woefully out-of-date article from 2015.

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Re: Android AV

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by: Alan Browne - Fri, 27 Jan 2023 21:40 UTC

On 2023-01-27 10:41, sms wrote:
> On 1/27/2023 7:06 AM, Gronk wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Why Apple Inc. Spends Less On Research And Development Than You Think
>> <https://www.ibtimes.com/why-apple-inc-spends-less-research-development-you-think-1954667>
>
> Good article.

Only because you fell for something 7+ years old?

> The idea that a company should spend, unnecessarily, on more R&D, just
> to increase the percentage of R&D in relation to revenue or profit is
> ludicrous.

Quite right.

OTOH, leveraging cash, personnel and other assets through R&D in order
to improve the product line (in various ways) to improve future sales,
cashflow, profits, etc. while also denying commercial space to
competitors is not only wise, it is the duty of management to the company.

Setting that value (budget) is a subject in its own. Apple have
demonstrated decades of R&D planning that is heads and shoulders above
the rest.

Indeed they could easily _budget_ 5X their current R&D spend - but
couldn't execute that for simple lack of the availability of personnel
capable of doing anything fruitful with it. (More than that of course,
but ... brevity).

> The whole idea is to leverage your R&D spending to increase volumes, and
> hence revenue and profit so the R&D spending becomes a lower percentage.

Not at all. The percentage is arbitrary. The "whole idea" is not
limited to the simplistic goal of "to increase volumes" unless it's
bottles of sugar water, perhaps.

> Other companies would love to have such high revenue and profit that R&D
> spending, as a percentage of expenditures, goes down.

Again the percentage is arbitrary and not a goal.

When a company (of any kind) has an insight (or invention, or discovery
or any other especial advantage), the "percentage" becomes even more
meaningless if to spend beyond the usual to take full advantage of the
new thing, gain dominance and prevent competition from growing in that
new space is the end result.

In the end, the only thing that counts is what R&D you do and to what
ends. Being able to afford it is the icing on the cake. Minimizing R&D
as a percentage of revenue or profit for that sake alone is not a
parameter of success - merely a bauble number for some bad reporting or
for explaining to shareholders why the dividend isn't higher.

Re: Android AV

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by: Gronk - Sat, 28 Jan 2023 00:08 UTC

Alan Browne wrote:

>> Good article.
>
> Only because you fell for something 7+ years old?

R&D spending has been historically low throughout Apple's corporate history.

Apple's R&D spending hits bottom as percentage of revenue
https://www.zdnet.com/article/apples-r-d-spending-hits-bottom-as-percentage-of-revenue/

Apple is a cheapskate when it comes to R&D
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2016/02/26/apple-cheapskate-when-comes-rd/80987938/

Analysts Criticize Apple Over Low R&D Spend
https://www.pymnts.com/apple/2018/apple-spend-more-rd/

Apple's R&D spending hits a low
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/apples-randd-spending-hits-a-low-2011-10/

Is Apple Underinvesting in R&D?
https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/12/is-apple-underinvesting-in-rd-what-steve-jobs-woul.aspx

Apple spends way less than Microsoft on R&D
https://money.cnn.com/2013/11/20/technology/mobile/apple-rd-spend/index.html
Why Apple Inc. Spends Less On Research And Development Than You Think
https://www.ibtimes.com/why-apple-inc-spends-less-research-development-you-think-1954667

Apple Research and Development Expenses by Year
https://dazeinfo.com/2019/09/27/apple-research-and-development-expenses-by-year-graphfarm/

Top Ten R&D spenders
https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/521302-2018-02/

Apple, Inc. R&D: Too Little?
https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/12/01/apple-inc-rd-too-little-or-just-right.aspx

Qualcomm Should Be Scared of These 2 Words That Apple Just Uttered
https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/05/05/qualcomm-should-be-scared-of-these-2-words-that-ap.aspx

Apple R&D spending is "efficient" versus its competitors
https://appleinsider.com/articles/17/08/09/though-apples-rd-spending-is-massive-its-still-more-efficient-than-all-other-competitors

> Again the percentage is arbitrary and not a goal.

The percentage is NOT arbitrary.
The percentage is NOT a goal.

The percentage is always measured against similar companies at similar times.

Apple R&D spend % versus five similar tech companies
https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/22343-26888-comparisonpercentagerdofrev2relabel-l.jpg

Five similar tech companies' revenue & R&D costs compared for one year
https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/22343-26885-07-comparisonrevrdcostsrelabel-l.jpg

Apple R&D % change over the years
https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/22343-26884-06-yoychangeinrdannualcosts-l.jpg

Apple net income versus operating income & R&D costs over the years
https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/22343-26881-01-annualnetincomeopincomerdc-l.jpg

Apple annual net sales, operating income, & R&D costs over the years
https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/22343-26882-02-annualnetsalesopincrdcosts-l.jpg

Re: Android AV

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by: Alan Browne - Sat, 28 Jan 2023 00:45 UTC

On 2023-01-27 19:08, Gronk wrote:
> Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>> Good article.
>>
>> Only because you fell for something 7+ years old?
>
> R&D spending has been historically l

I assure you I did not open a single one of those links since your prior
effort was so lame.

I will leave you with:

"Apple is an ungodly well managed company."
-Charlie Munger.

Re: Android AV

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by: Gronk - Sat, 28 Jan 2023 01:42 UTC

Alan Browne wrote:

> "Apple is an ungodly well managed company."

What kind of person are you that you run away when cites are provided?
Why are you afraid of defending your own statements of only a moment ago?

Remember, you're the one saying that Apple invested highly in R&D.
That's all I'm saying is wrong.

I never said Apple isn't well managed. It is. Ungodly well managed.
But you're disagreeing with Apple's historically ungodly low R&D expenses.

On what basis can you possibly say Apple's R&D spending is high?
(compared to similar companies at similar times)

> I will leave you with:

Why are you so afraid of your own statements that you run away from them?

You're the one disputing Apple's R&D investment, not me.
On what basis can you dispute Apple's historically ungodly low R&D?

Re: Android AV

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by: Gronk - Sat, 28 Jan 2023 00:00 UTC

Alan Browne wrote:

>> Good article.
>
> Only because you fell for something 7+ years old?

R&D spending has been historically low throughout Apple's corporate history.

Apple's R&D spending hits bottom as percentage of revenue
https://www.zdnet.com/article/apples-r-d-spending-hits-bottom-as-percentage-of-revenue/

Apple is a cheapskate when it comes to R&D
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2016/02/26/apple-cheapskate-when-comes-rd/80987938/

Analysts Criticize Apple Over Low R&D Spend
https://www.pymnts.com/apple/2018/apple-spend-more-rd/

Apple's R&D spending hits a low
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/apples-randd-spending-hits-a-low-2011-10/

Is Apple Underinvesting in R&D?
https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/12/is-apple-underinvesting-in-rd-what-steve-jobs-woul.aspx

Apple Research and Development Expenses by Year
https://dazeinfo.com/2019/09/27/apple-research-and-development-expenses-by-year-graphfarm/

Top Ten R&D spenders
https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/521302-2018-02/

Apple, Inc. R&D: Too Little?
https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/12/01/apple-inc-rd-too-little-or-just-right.aspx

Qualcomm Should Be Scared of These 2 Words That Apple Just Uttered
https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/05/05/qualcomm-should-be-scared-of-these-2-words-that-ap.aspx

Apple R&D spending is "efficient" versus its competitors
https://appleinsider.com/articles/17/08/09/though-apples-rd-spending-is-massive-its-still-more-efficient-than-all-other-competitors

> Again the percentage is arbitrary and not a goal.

The percentage is always being measured against similar companies.

Apple R&D spend % versus five similar tech companies
https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/22343-26888-comparisonpercentagerdofrev2relabel-l.jpg

Five similar tech companies' revenue & R&D costs compared for one year
https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/22343-26885-07-comparisonrevrdcostsrelabel-l.jpg

Apple R&D % change over the years
https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/22343-26884-06-yoychangeinrdannualcosts-l.jpg

Apple net income versus operating income & R&D costs over the years
https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/22343-26881-01-annualnetincomeopincomerdc-l.jpg

Apple annual net sales, operating income, & R&D costs over the years
https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/22343-26882-02-annualnetsalesopincrdcosts-l.jpg

Re: Android AV

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From: spa...@nospam.com (Andy Burnelli)
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by: Andy Burnelli - Fri, 27 Jan 2023 15:46 UTC

sms wrote:

>> Why Apple Inc. Spends Less On Research And Development Than You Think
>> <https://www.ibtimes.com/why-apple-inc-spends-less-research-development-you-think-1954667>
>
> Good article.
>
> The idea that a company should spend, unnecessarily, on more R&D, just
> to increase the percentage of R&D in relation to revenue or profit is
> ludicrous.
>
> The whole idea is to leverage your R&D spending to increase volumes, and
> hence revenue and profit so the R&D spending becomes a lower percentage.
>
> Other companies would love to have such high revenue and profit that R&D
> spending, as a percentage of expenditures, goes down.

Steve is correct, IMHO, that the abysmally low R&D spending of Apple is a
calculus that Apple management made, and let's be clear, Apple is one of
the most successful companies in the world as a result of those executives.

What Apple is (IMHO), is no different than what Coca Cola is...

*A MARKETING company*

One of the best in the world.

Apple doesn't invent anything. Apple markets it.
*Apple can market cooked liver and make 50% profits off their customers*

And, the customers will gloat how much Apple made in profits off them!

*Now _that's_ marketing!*

Re: Android AV

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by: Alan - Sat, 28 Jan 2023 06:58 UTC

On 2023-01-27 07:06, Gronk wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>>> Apple has the lowest R&D spend in _all_ similar high tech companies
>>
>> Wrong. Apple spends $15 BILLION a year on research and development,
>> which is objectively more than every other high tech company.
>
> Why Apple Inc. Spends Less On Research And Development Than You Think
> <https://www.ibtimes.com/why-apple-inc-spends-less-research-development-you-think-1954667>

From 2015....

....and comparing R&D spending to revenues is dumb.

Re: Android AV

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by: Alan - Sat, 28 Jan 2023 06:59 UTC

"Well hello there Charlie Brown, you blockhead." -- Lucy Van Pelt

computers / comp.mobile.android / Re: Android AV

Subject	Author
Android AV	Jim the Geordie
Re: Android AV	sms
Re: Android AV	Joerg Lorenz
Re: Android AV	VanguardLH
Re: Android AV	Andy Burnelli
Re: Android AV	Andy Burns
Re: Android AV	nospam
Re: Android AV	Alan Browne
Re: Android AV	Andy Burnelli
Re: Android AV	Jim the Geordie
Re: Android AV	Carlos E. R.
Re: Android AV	sms
Re: Android AV	nospam
Re: Android AV	Andy Burnelli
Re: Android AV	Alan
Re: Android AV	Jolly Roger
Re: Android AV	Andy Burnelli
Re: Android AV	Alan
Re: Android AV	Jolly Roger
Re: Android AV	Alan Browne
Re: Android AV	Gronk
Re: Android AV	Jolly Roger
Re: Android AV	sms
Re: Android AV	Jolly Roger
Re: Android AV	Alan Browne
Re: Android AV	Gronk
Re: Android AV	Alan Browne
Re: Android AV	Gronk
Re: Android AV	Gronk
Re: Android AV	Alan
Re: Android AV	Andy Burnelli
Re: Android AV	Alan
Re: Android AV	Andy Burnelli
Re: Android AV	Andy Burnelli
Re: Android AV	Jim the Geordie
Re: Android AV	Ken Blake
Re: Android AV	Andy Burnelli
Re: Android AV	Jason H