On 2023-03-18 02:25, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-03-18, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Jolly Roger writes:
>>
>>> You clearly didn't watch the above video... LOL!
>>
>> I live in the real world and I watched the video.
>>
>> The presenter used a white clip which only works in the walled garden.
>
> LOL... You live in a fantasy world.

He'd be safer in a fantasy world.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 3/17/2023 6:17 PM, mike wrote:
> On 17-03-2023 21:26 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>>>> It looks like the computations may be run on Cupertino servers [which
>>>> won't work for most Android owners (who don't daily log into Apple ID
>>>> servers)].
>>>
>>> It is surprising that a simple camera app requires a secure login into
>>> CPU racks
>>
>> What's not surprising is how gullible you are to gleefully fall for lies
>> without question.
>
> Why does that Continuity Camera app need to be logged into anything?
> It's a camera app. Not an email account.
> No other camera app requires a login.
> Does Continuity Camera work if I never create a login to an Apple ID?

Since it works wirelessly it needs to pair with the proper Mac. Suppose
you were in a Starbucks with 20 people on their Macbooks, all with an
iPhone that they wanted to use as a camera. How would the iPhone know
which Mac to wirelessly connect to? They could have done this with a
Bluetooth code, but since most users stay logged into their AppleID all
the time when the devices are on anyway, this makes it simpler.

The requirements for Continuity Camera are clear:

Mac must be running Ventura or greater
iPhone Xr or newer running iOS 16
Devices must be on the same Wi-Fi network
Devices must be connected via Bluetooth
Devices must be signed into the same AppleID

However you can connect the iPhone via USB to the Mac but it still
requires logging into the same AppleID.

There are other ways to use your iPhone as a webcam with a Mac that
don't require all that, i.e.
<https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id964565026> is USB only. You'd
want to pay for the pro version ($19.99) for audio to also work, and
lifetime updates are another $99.99.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 2023-03-17 21:52, John wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Mar 2023 21:44:40 -0400, nospam wrote:
>
>>> You're either ignorant or lying.
>>
>> why not both?
>
> You're not answering the question in good faith.
> Making fun of an honest question usually means you are skirting the answer.
>
> Usually when a company requires a login, it's because they collect data.

"Usually" is not always, is it?

In this case it's because of Apple's security model where device
connection is concerned. This is not linking some dumb camera to one's
computer. It is linking two personal devices together securely.

It's germane to note that this is done via the "Handoff" mechanism
between Apple devices - and that necessitates that the two devices
belong to the same AppleID and therefore both are logged into Apple's
servers.[1]

It does not mean data from the connected session goes to Apple. What
would they care about that?

[1] As stated earlier: people don't "log off" of their Apple server
session much. In order to enjoy all of the many features of the Apple
eco system, the "glue" is iCloud/Apple servers/AppleID. This further
doesn't prevent device-device connection when there is no internet service.
Indeed the only time one "logs off" of AppleID is to resolve the odd
issue that pops up. This happens quite rarely.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

Martin Brown wrote:

> sms wrote:
>
> I think they're most excited about the Continuity "Desk View" features.
> https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/use-iphone-with-desk-view-mchl06927be8/mac
>
> It looks like the computations may be run on Cupertino servers

It's one of those things that's clever, but is it really that useful? I
can't think when I'd ever have used such a feature ...

On 2023-03-18 10:21, Andy Burns wrote:
> Martin Brown wrote:
>
>> sms wrote:
>>
>> I think they're most excited about the Continuity "Desk View" features.
>> https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/use-iphone-with-desk-view-mchl06927be8/mac
>>
>> It looks like the computations may be run on Cupertino servers

On the phone, actually. It would take immense amounts of data back and
forth to do this in realtime w/o issues.

>
> It's one of those things that's clever, but is it really that useful?  I
> can't think when I'd ever have used such a feature ...

It is in some presentations/discussions where you have "flat" stuff on
your desk to present and camera angles will distort things. Not for
your typical meeting.

OTOH, if the things you want to present are 3D then expect distortions
to creep in the taller the object is.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

In article <tv4ghq$2h0cn$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> There are other ways to use your iPhone as a webcam with a Mac that
> don't require all that, i.e.
> <https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id964565026> is USB only. You'd
> want to pay for the pro version ($19.99) for audio to also work, and
> lifetime updates are another $99.99.

anyone that pays for that is an utter fool, which is probably why you
suggested doing so. it's clear you have no experience in this area.

there are *other* camera apps that aren't limited to usb and far less
expensive, including some that are actually free (not paid 'for audio
to also work').

On 2023-03-18 01:13, mike wrote:
> On 18-03-2023 03:50 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> if you don't want to be 'logged into anything', you can do it the hard
>>>> way by manually pairing the phone and configuring software on both
>>>> ends.
>>>
>>> Then why does the official description from Apple say otherwise?
>>
>> could be because you don't understand how any of this works.
>
> I read the official description from Apple that was provided earlier.
>
> Apple is clear about the requirements.
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213244
>
> "Your iPhone and Mac must be signed in with the same Apple ID using
> two-factor authentication."

Signed in doesn't mean data is flowing out of the session to Apple. It
is merely to assure privacy - that the phone and computer belong to that
person. Security and privacy: an Apple thing.

Connecting a phone to a computer is not like connecting a simple camera
to the computer - the phone and computer are both privately owned
devices containing user personal info. Before connecting them, you
really do want to be sure it's authorized.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2023-03-18, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2023-03-17 21:27, John wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Mar 2023 17:39:44 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>>> What is important is that all my devices are "rooted" to one ID, so
>>> all my devices can trust one another and only I can log into them.
>>
>> Why would something as basic as a camera app require you to log in?
>
> In the Apple world, what you refer to as "log in" is really part of a
> device being linked to your AppleID (or v-v).
>
> So if I want to connect any given phone to my Mac, I want that phone
> to be mine and mine alone. (or v-v).
>
> The credential basis for that is rooted in AppleID. AppleID
> encourages the use of TFA as part of its security model as well. In
> this case it looks more like they are enforcing it.

And the know-nothing trolls want us to believe that additional security
is supposedly "HORRIBLY BAD". ; )

> Once that device-device connection is made, Apple servers are no
> longer involved in the actual session.

BINGO

>> My Pixel has a GCam Google camera app and it doesn't require me to
>> log into it just for the camera app to work.
>
> The camera on an iPhone doesn't require connection to Apple servers
> either. Again, we're talking about authorization for a given phone to
> talk to a given Mac. Because: privacy.
>
> This is not so the session will route through Apple's servers.

And it happens seamlessly - a word the know-nothing trolls clearly don't
fully understand.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 3/18/2023 7:21 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Martin Brown wrote:
>
>> sms wrote:
>>
>> I think they're most excited about the Continuity "Desk View" features.
>> https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/use-iphone-with-desk-view-mchl06927be8/mac
>>
>> It looks like the computations may be run on Cupertino servers
>
> It's one of those things that's clever, but is it really that useful?  I
> can't think when I'd ever have used such a feature ...

The Desk View feature may not be that useful but using your iPhone as a
camera is definitely useful if you have a Macbook or Mac desktop where
the camera is not very good. Apple has been criticized a lot for not
putting high-quality cameras in their MacOS devices. See "Apple Built a
Kludge to Fix Your Mac's Hideous Webcam" at
<https://www.pcmag.com/news/apple-built-a-kludge-to-fix-your-macs-hideous-webcam>.
You can understand a poor camera on an el-cheapo $300 Windows laptop or
Chromebook, but not on an expensive Macbook.

It just looks really clunky and kludgy, i.e.
<https://i.pcmag.com/imagery/articles/06SGsPdqq8zT6vfnbUHBMLN-3.fit_lim.size_768x.png>.

I have a high-end LG wide-screen monitor that has no camera. For $20 I
bought a 1080p USB camera that works beautifully well. For $100-150 you
can buy a 1080P webcam.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

In article <tv4ngt$2i73s$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> The Desk View feature may not be that useful

not all the time, but it can be in some situations.

> but using your iPhone as a
> camera is definitely useful if you have a Macbook or Mac desktop where
> the camera is not very good.

1080p is not very good? were you expecting 4k?

the intended use case is when there *isn't* any camera at all, such as
with an external display.

> Apple has been criticized a lot for not
> putting high-quality cameras in their MacOS devices.

and they've addressed that with 1080p cameras.

On 3/18/2023 9:05 AM, sms wrote:

<snip>

> For $100-150 you can buy a 1080P webcam.
I meant for $100-150 you can buy a 4K webcam. Sticking an iPhone on top
of your monitor looks a silly as using a selfie-stick with an iPad
<https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology-science/technology/ipad-selfie-stick-here---5438335>.

On 2023-03-18 15:16, sms wrote:
> On 3/18/2023 9:05 AM, sms wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> For $100-150 you can buy a 1080P webcam.
> I meant for $100-150 you can buy a 4K webcam. Sticking an iPhone on top
> of your monitor looks a silly

For someone who only does a few webcam meetings per year, using what
they have (an iPhone) is less silly than spending money on a camera they
rarely need.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

In article <tv52m7$2k13v$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Sticking an iPhone on top
> of your monitor looks a silly as using a selfie-stick with an iPad

nothing silly about it. it works quite well.

you simply can't accept that ios can do yet another thing that android
can't, so you have to grasp at straws to bash it. sad.

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 10:01:22 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

>> Why would something as basic as a camera app require you to log in?
>
> In the Apple world, what you refer to as "log in" is really part of a
> device being linked to your AppleID (or v-v).
>
> So if I want to connect any given phone to my Mac, I want that phone to
> be mine and mine alone. (or v-v).
>
> The credential basis for that is rooted in AppleID. AppleID encourages
> the use of TFA as part of its security model as well. In this case it
> looks more like they are enforcing it.
>
> Once that device-device connection is made, Apple servers are no longer
> involved in the actual session.
>
>> My Pixel has a GCam Google camera app and it doesn't require me to
>> log into it just for the camera app to work.
>
> The camera on an iPhone doesn't require connection to Apple servers
> either. Again, we're talking about authorization for a given phone to
> talk to a given Mac. Because: privacy.
>
> This is not so the session will route through Apple's servers.

Thank you for explaining that your login is to the Apple ID but not
necessarily, at every moment, into Apple servers, which is important.

We do it different on Android so your world is different from ours.

Once you're used to one of the two systems, the other system seems strange
in what restrictions are imposed and in how it approaches device diversity.

On 3/18/2023 3:54 PM, nospam wrote:
>> Sticking an iPhone on top
>> of your monitor looks a silly as using a selfie-stick with an iPad
>
> nothing silly about it. it works quite well.
>
> you simply can't accept that ios can do yet another thing that android
> can't, so you have to grasp at straws to bash it. sad.

Are you sure you can't use Android as a webcam on a pc?
--
best regards,

Neil

Alan Browne writes:

>>> The presenter used a white clip which only works in the walled garden.
>>
>> LOL... You live in a fantasy world.
>
> He'd be safer in a fantasy world.

Why would anyone refer to the "real world" as a "fantasy world?"

I don't know why you need to deride that the solution you are so fond of
doesn't work in the real world but only inside of Apple's walled garden.

Your disdain for the real world doesn't fix that problem that your proposed
software doesn't work at all in the real world, nor does making a mockery
of the real world help make you look favorable to people who are in the
real world (and therefore, who happen to have devices that aren't always
only found inside of Apple's walled garden).

If the solution you propose doesn't work outside Apple's walled garden,
then that's a fine solution for you but it won't work in the real world.

For you to taunt & hold the real world in contempt says a lot about you.

Alan Browne writes:

>> The walled garden world is not the real world.
>> What good is this walled garden app when it can't work in the real world?
>
> Scream walled garden from the rooftops if it makes you happy.
>
> Doesn't apply as you so desperately want (need!) it to.

You don't seem to understand that you taunting everyone who is in the real
world says something about you that is disturbing and even a bit creepy.

You deride everyone who lives in the real world and then you propose a
solution that only works inside the fantasy world of the walled garden.

It's not a concept you seem to be able to grasp that if the solution you
propose only works inside Apple's walled garden, then it does not work in
the real world (where devices are not only inside the walled garden).

I'm very happy that you found a solution that works for you when you are
only inside the boundary of the walled garden, but for you to deny that the
walled garden exists after explaining in every way how much it exists, says
more about you than you probably want other people to know (it's creepy).

For you to taunt & hold the real world in contempt says a lot about you.

Am 19.03.23 um 06:47 schrieb Scott Lurndal:
> Alan Browne writes:
>
>>> The walled garden world is not the real world.
>>> What good is this walled garden app when it can't work in the real world?
>>
>> Scream walled garden from the rooftops if it makes you happy.
>>
>> Doesn't apply as you so desperately want (need!) it to.
>
> You don't seem to understand that you taunting everyone who is in the real
> world says something about you that is disturbing and even a bit creepy.
>
> You deride everyone who lives in the real world and then you propose a
> solution that only works inside the fantasy world of the walled garden.
>
> It's not a concept you seem to be able to grasp that if the solution you
> propose only works inside Apple's walled garden, then it does not work in
> the real world (where devices are not only inside the walled garden).
>
> I'm very happy that you found a solution that works for you when you are
> only inside the boundary of the walled garden, but for you to deny that the
> walled garden exists after explaining in every way how much it exists, says
> more about you than you probably want other people to know (it's creepy).
>
> For you to taunt & hold the real world in contempt says a lot about you.

*ROTFLSTC*
Take your frogpills.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 2023-03-19 01:42, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Alan Browne writes:
>
>>>> The presenter used a white clip which only works in the walled garden.
>>>
>>> LOL... You live in a fantasy world.
>>
>> He'd be safer in a fantasy world.
>
> Why would anyone refer to the "real world" as a "fantasy world?"
>
> I don't know why you need to deride that the solution you are so fond of
> doesn't work in the real world but only inside of Apple's walled garden.
>
> Your disdain for the real world doesn't fix that problem that your proposed
> software doesn't work at all in the real world, nor does making a mockery
> of the real world help make you look favorable to people who are in the
> real world (and therefore, who happen to have devices that aren't always
> only found inside of Apple's walled garden).
>
> If the solution you propose doesn't work outside Apple's walled garden,
> then that's a fine solution for you but it won't work in the real world.
>
> For you to taunt & hold the real world in contempt says a lot about you.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2023-03-19 00:52, John wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 10:01:22 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>> Why would something as basic as a camera app require you to log in?
>>
>> In the Apple world, what you refer to as "log in" is really part of a
>> device being linked to your AppleID (or v-v).
>>
>> So if I want to connect any given phone to my Mac, I want that phone to
>> be mine and mine alone. (or v-v).
>>
>> The credential basis for that is rooted in AppleID. AppleID encourages
>> the use of TFA as part of its security model as well. In this case it
>> looks more like they are enforcing it.
>>
>> Once that device-device connection is made, Apple servers are no longer
>> involved in the actual session.
>>
>>> My Pixel has a GCam Google camera app and it doesn't require me to
>>> log into it just for the camera app to work.
>>
>> The camera on an iPhone doesn't require connection to Apple servers
>> either. Again, we're talking about authorization for a given phone to
>> talk to a given Mac. Because: privacy.
>>
>> This is not so the session will route through Apple's servers.
>
> Thank you for explaining that your login is to the Apple ID but not
> necessarily, at every moment, into Apple servers, which is important.
>
> We do it different on Android so your world is different from ours. >
> Once you're used to one of the two systems, the other system seems strange
> in what restrictions are imposed and in how it approaches device diversity.

It's borne of Apple's multiple drives aimed at security and privacy.

Happy I cleared that up.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2023-03-19 01:42, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Alan Browne writes:
>
>>>> The presenter used a white clip which only works in the walled garden.
>>>
>>> LOL... You live in a fantasy world.
>>
>> He'd be safer in a fantasy world.
>
> Why would anyone refer to the "real world" as a "fantasy world?"
>
> I don't know why you need to deride that the solution you are so fond of
> doesn't work in the real world but only inside of Apple's walled garden.

The fact that you keep spouting this "walled garden" nonsense leaves you
wide open for derision.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

Alan Browne writes:

> The fact that you keep spouting this "walled garden" nonsense leaves you
> wide open for derision.

You are quite like Trump, if I may say so without hurting your feelings.

You announce a solution to Android & iOS newsgroups but when anyone looks
closely at the approach, it clearly only works inside the walled garden.

Then, when nobody sober could (or would) deny that the approach you
introduced only works inside the walled garden, you deny the garden exists.

I wonder if you realize you routinely do exactly what Donald Trump does.
There's no possibility of having a normal debate with people like you.

On 2023-03-19 12:19, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Alan Browne writes:
>
>> The fact that you keep spouting this "walled garden" nonsense leaves you
>> wide open for derision.
>
> You are quite like

Same old troll is back ...

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2023-03-19 12:19, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Alan Browne writes:
>
>> The fact that you keep spouting this "walled garden" nonsense leaves you
>> wide open for derision.

> There's no possibility of having a normal debate with people like you.

I'm not debating. Least of all with you. You have no idea what a
walled garden actually is. But it's a nice label to ignorantly bandy about.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 09:09:16 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

> It's borne of Apple's multiple drives aimed at security and privacy.
>
> Happy I cleared that up.

Thanks for clearing up the confusion as the camera works differently in one
ecosystem than it does in the other due to each platform asking us to agree
to customs & notions which are unheard of in the other platform, but which
are routinely accepted to get the apps to work as designed in each system.

If it works well for you using customs you accept, that is all that
matters. That desktop view is neat, although I don't need it - it's nice.