With smartphone tech at a plateau - maybe it's time for a sustainable
user-serviceable phone with 5 major updates & 8 years of hotfix support
https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/30/23843287/fairphone-5-price-release-date-specs-features-repairable-smartphone

Fairphone is promising to update the Fairphone 5 with at least five major
Android updates beyond the Android 12 it ships with as well as eight years
of security patches. That should keep the phone usable from a software
perspective until 2031, though Fairphone's press release says it's aiming
for 2033 as a stretch goal.

For reference, the company released its last software update for the 2015
Fairphone 2 earlier this year, bringing to an end seven years of software
support, handily beating Android competitors like Samsung and Google (which
both currently offer up to five years of security updates). The Fairphone 5
also ships with a five-year warranty.

The length of software support being promised for the Fairphone 5 is at
least partially due to Fairphone's use of an enterprise-focused chipset
from Qualcomm, the QCM6490, which is roughly equivalent in specs to the
midrange Snapdragon 778G. It's joined by 8GB of RAM and 256GB of internal
storage, expandable with up to 2TB via microSD.

A 90Hz OLED display, dual 50-megapixel cameras, and 30W fast charging. But
still just as sustainably produced, with a promise of eight years of
software support - but it is not yet released for the US customer base.

It's 6.46 inches in size with a refresh rate of 90Hz and a resolution of
1224 x 2770. Fairphone has upped the number of repair modules in this phone
to 10 because it now allows you to replace the rear cameras individually or
replace the module containing the SIM and SD Card slots.

Of course, the battery is still user-replaceable but is also bigger this
time around at 4,200mAh, supports faster 30W charging, and is rated to
survive 1,000 charging cycles.

Meanwhile, Apple's software support is the _shortest_ in the industry.

While Apple only supports one (and only one!) OS release for full hotfix
support, Android has _always_ supported hotfixes many times that!
*Apple's hotfix support is the shortest in the entire phone industry*
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>

And while Apple locks batteries expressly to discourage consumer repair,
Android phones have long used user-replaceable batteries for long life!
*Apple is Locking iPhone Batteries to Discourage Consumer Repairs*
<https://www.macrumors.com/2019/08/08/apple-locking-iphone-batteries-third-party/>

On 2023-08-30 07:48, Wally J wrote:
> With smartphone tech at a plateau - maybe it's time for a sustainable
> user-serviceable phone with 5 major updates & 8 years of hotfix support
> https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/30/23843287/fairphone-5-price-release-date-specs-features-repairable-smartphone
>

Let's just see how it actually does in the marketplace.

The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes
don't even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates
six or more years after launch was just too good to pass up.

I still miss a lot of features of Android, though, such as
customizable... well, anything. If we could get an 8 year (or heck, even
a five year) Android phone, I might switch back.

Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.

--
~rdh

rdh wrote:

>Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.

You could go back to the Blackberry...

rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote

> The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
> phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes
> don't even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates
> six or more years after launch was just too good to pass up.

A lot of people believe in myths and superstitions about Apple support.

You are not an iKook so I will be patient and gentle by providing facts
knowing full well there are many people whose belief are imaginary and not
based on any facts whatsoever (e.g., people with religious belief systems).

Hence, before I provide you with heartfelt facts, I state you are welcome
to switch between platforms for reasons that are your own personal ones.

However... what you just said is akin to someone saying they switched from
Toyota to Honda because their tires kept going flat on the Toyota.

What you express as your desires would make sense if you knew what you're
talking about - but unfortunately for you - everything you say - is wrong.

Please do not take this as an insult - just as friendly advice for you to
look up how long Apple supports full hotfixes for that iPhone which you
"think" is supported for "six or more years".

Here... I'll help you with the references which prove that Apple supports
only one (yes - only a single release) for full hotfixes & always has.
https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/
https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/

By the way, supporting only a single release wouldn't be so bad since Apple
does control the apps - but iOS has ten times the number of exploits too!
https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog

> I still miss a lot of features of Android, though, such as
> customizable... well, anything.

This shows for sure that you're a normal person, and not an iKook given
there are literally thousands (upon thousands!) of useful things that
Android users do every day - which are impossible to do on iOS.

What's surprising to Apple users (who love how well the iPhone works inside
the walled garden) is all that Android customization is done WITHOUT having
to log into a mothership account 24/7 which Apple users do 365 days a year.

The Apple users are unaware that there is nothing by way of app
functionality on the iPhone that isn't already on Android.

They don't understand that the reason is extremely obvious why.
a. Apple restricts the apps that users can install on the iPhone
b. Google can't.

Examples are location spoofing, system-wide firewalls with adblocks,
graphical wi-fi & cellular signal strength debugging, Guardian Tor browser
privacy, bittorrents, customizable app launchers, setting the default
messenger, installing privacy based browsers such as ungoogled chromium,
etc.

The number of useful things that are on _every other platform except iOS_
numbers in the thousands - where you seem to inherently be aware of this.

Good for you, because both you & I used both platforms & I use each
platform daily (which none of the iKooks do) so my advice is factually
sound and true.

> If we could get an 8 year (or heck, even
> a five year) Android phone, I might switch back.

Given most Androids sold are probably Samsungs, you already have what you
stated since there are Android phones extent today that have long support.

Bear in mind almost everyone who owns an iPhone is unaware that iOS is a
monolith (only slightly changed in iOS 16) which means not only that Apple
supports only one release at a time - but that the _entire release dies_
the instant Apple puts out a new iOS version. Everything in iOS dies.

By dying, I mean the full support for iOS 16 ceases the instant that iOS 17
is released - which is a support structure NO OTHER OPERATING SYSTEM USES!

Since you're not an iKook, you perhaps will click on the relevant links
which prove that iOS has the _shortest_ support lifecycle in the industry.

UPDATE monoslab vs UPGRADE monoslab vs RAPID SECURITY RESPONSE patch:
https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/

RSR patches:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224

UPGRADES:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222

Note, by way of direct comparison, Microsoft supports _multiple_ Windows
releases at the same time, and for something like almost a decade each.

Also note that, unlike iOS which is a monolith (iOS 16 excepted), that you
can get most of the operating system components (such as hardware drivers)
independently of the operating system - which iOS doesn't allow you to do!

For example, with Android, almost the entire operating system (both drivers
and dozens of fundamental components) are delivered to Androids as old as
version 4.4 (which is when they added the underlying mechanism to do it).

None of the iKooks can comprehend a word I've just heartfully and patiently
explained to you (mainly because they can't fathom the fact that iOS has
the shortest support lifecycle in the industry when you count the entire
system) where I back up every one of my factual claims with URLs which the
iKooks will never read (nor could they understand them) but you might.

Project MainLine (since renamed a few times) for asynchronous updates:
https://www.androidcentral.com/android-12-features-we-love-android-runtime-now-part-project-mainline
https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modules-explanation/
https://www.hexnode.com/blogs/android-project-mainline-everything-you-need-to-know/

Project Treble for hardware drivers to be updated asynchronously:
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2017/05/here-comes-treble-modular-base-for.html
https://www.xda-developers.com/tag/project-treble/
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/05/google-hopes-to-fix-android-updates-no-really-with-project-treble/

None of that is possible on iOS - which is why it's a fallacy that iOS has
a long support cycle as iOS, in fact, has the shortest support in the
computer industry (when you count all key components in the system).

Notice two very important points I make, which I make because almost every
iPhone owner believes in a completely imaginary system of what Apple
supports (even you believe iOS support isn't the shortest in the industry).

All operating systems _except for iOS_ update most of their components
forever (e.g., the drivers, the key applications, the underlying modules).

Only iOS supports the entire operating system as a primitive monolithic
blob whose entire system of software & hardware support instantly dies the
moment that a new iOS release comes out!

The fact is *there is no consumer os with _shorter support_ than iOS*

> Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.

I have a huge PC monitor where I display the entire Android phone onto it,
using the PC's screen for the sound which gives me full keyboard & mouse
(and most importantly, clipboard) control over Android - for free.

Since I'm a nice guy, and since you're not an iKook, here is a tutorial to
share both your screen and the sound of your phone over WiFi on the Mac.
https://dev.to/equiman/share-your-android-screen-and-audio-on-macos-1p64

If you want a physical keyboard, there are plenty of threads on that too.
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/search?q=keyboard

In summary, you are not an iKook so everything I advise you upon is to
purposefully helpfully provide you with the details you need to make
intelligent decisions - which are the kind of decisions adults make.

On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 15:52:15 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> rdh wrote:
>
>>Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.
>
> You could go back to the Blackberry...

It's super easy to add a physical keyboard to any Android phone.
https://source.android.com/docs/core/interaction/input/keyboard-devices

I would think it would be just as easy to add a keyboard to the iPhone too.

On 2023-08-31 10:03, Wally J wrote:
> rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote
>
>> The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
>> phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes
>> don't even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates
>> six or more years after launch was just too good to pass up.
>
> A lot of people believe in myths and superstitions about Apple support.
>
> You are not an iKook so I will be patient and gentle by providing facts
> knowing full well there are many people whose belief are imaginary and not
> based on any facts whatsoever (e.g., people with religious belief systems).
>
> Hence, before I provide you with heartfelt facts, I state you are welcome
> to switch between platforms for reasons that are your own personal ones.
>
> However... what you just said is akin to someone saying they switched from
> Toyota to Honda because their tires kept going flat on the Toyota.
>
> What you express as your desires would make sense if you knew what you're
> talking about - but unfortunately for you - everything you say - is wrong.
>
> Please do not take this as an insult - just as friendly advice for you to
> look up how long Apple supports full hotfixes for that iPhone which you
> "think" is supported for "six or more years".
>
> Here... I'll help you with the references which prove that Apple supports
> only one (yes - only a single release) for full hotfixes & always has.
> https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/
> https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/

And here's what Arlen won't tell you.

The current version of iOS is 16.6.

And iOS 16.6 supports iPhones back to the iPhone 8...

....which came out in September...

....2017.

And guess what today is!

:-)

On 2023-08-31 10:03, Wally J wrote:
> They don't understand that the reason is extremely obvious why.
> a. Apple restricts the apps that users can install on the iPhone
> b. Google can't.

And yet in another thread, you argued that you couldn't get bad software
because:

"Google sees the source code"

Care to explain?

In message <e52IM.207810$nEzb.38585@fx36.iad>
rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote:

> The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
> phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes don't
> even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates six or
> more years after launch was just too good to pass up.
>
> I still miss a lot of features of Android, though, such as customizable...
> well, anything. If we could get an 8 year (or heck, even a five year)
> Android phone, I might switch back.

I was just reading about Fairphone, who promise exactly what you're
asking for. I have no personal experience to go on though.

> Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.

Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard
do?

David

On 8/31/23 12:12, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> It's super easy to add a physical keyboard to any Android phone.
> https://source.android.com/docs/core/interaction/input/keyboard-devices
>
> I would think it would be just as easy to add a keyboard to the iPhone too.
Sure, you can connect a keyboard to an Android phone, or an iPhone. I do
it sometimes. But I don't want to pull out a second device to type on my
phone, I just want my keys back.

> On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 15:52:15 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:
>>
>> You could go back to the Blackberry...

If Blackberry got back into making phones, I'd switch in a heartbeat. I
tried the Unihertz Titan Slim, but the quality wasn't there.

--
~rdh

On 8/31/23 15:23, David Higton wrote:
> Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard
> do?
>

External keyboards are fine, but it's just another thing to charge,
another thing to keep around, another thing to pull out... I'd rather
just have a keyboard on my phone.

--
~rdh

On 31/08/23 22:56, rdh wrote:
>> Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard
>> do?
>>
>
> External keyboards are fine, but it's just another thing to charge,
> another thing to keep around, another thing to pull out... I'd rather
> just have a keyboard on my phone.

If you're sitting at your desk at home or at work, you just mirror the
entire phone (including keyboard, mouse & clipboard) onto the display.

The phone can be set to show up as double or triple original size too.
You can do it either with just a monitor (and nothing else) or a PC.
--
Peter Moylin

On 8/31/23 1:23 PM, David Higton wrote:
> In message <e52IM.207810$nEzb.38585@fx36.iad>
> rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote:
>
>> The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
>> phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes don't
>> even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates six or
>> more years after launch was just too good to pass up.
>>
>> I still miss a lot of features of Android, though, such as customizable...
>> well, anything. If we could get an 8 year (or heck, even a five year)
>> Android phone, I might switch back.
>
> I was just reading about Fairphone, who promise exactly what you're
> asking for. I have no personal experience to go on though.
>
>> Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.
>
> Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard
> do?

Those are cute, but disappointing. Quite a while back I had a roll-up
near-full-size USB keyboard . Surely there's a bluetooth version
available now.

https://www.walmart.com/c/kp/bluetooth-roll-up-keyboard

--
Cheers, Bev
"Let them eat shit."
-- Marcel Antoinette, Marie's little-known brother

On 2023-08-31 13:55, rdh wrote:
> On 8/31/23 12:12, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
>> It's super easy to add a physical keyboard to any Android phone.
>> https://source.android.com/docs/core/interaction/input/keyboard-devices
>>
>> I would think it would be just as easy to add a keyboard to the iPhone
>> too.
> Sure, you can connect a keyboard to an Android phone, or an iPhone. I do
> it sometimes. But I don't want to pull out a second device to type on my
> phone, I just want my keys back.

Sorry... ...the market spoke, and not enough people feel as you do.

In comp.mobile.android rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote:
> On 8/31/23 15:23, David Higton wrote:
> > Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard
> > do?
> >
>
> External keyboards are fine, but it's just another thing to charge,
> another thing to keep around, another thing to pull out... I'd rather
> just have a keyboard on my phone.

There are things like:
https://www.www3.planetcom.co.uk/planetphones

but IMHO they scored a massive own goal by using a MediaTek chip, which is
bottom of the barrel in terms of support for Android updates from the
manufacturer.

It's not like there's a 'good' option for that out there, but using one of
the 'industrial' SoCs that Fairphone are using would be a big improvement.

(I'm not sure Qualcomm will talk to you unless you're selling N million
units, though, which is a problem for boutique phone designers)

Theo

On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 23:29:29 +0200, Peter Moylin
<peter@moylin.invalid> wrote:

>On 31/08/23 22:56, rdh wrote:
>>> Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard
>>> do?
>>>
>>
>> External keyboards are fine, but it's just another thing to charge,
>> another thing to keep around, another thing to pull out... I'd rather
>> just have a keyboard on my phone.
>
>If you're sitting at your desk at home or at work, you just mirror the
>entire phone (including keyboard, mouse & clipboard) onto the display.

That's useless, as far as I'm concerned. If I'm sitting at my desk,
I'm going to use my desktop PC, not my phone.

The only reason I have a smart phone is to provide e-mail and web
access when I'm *not* home.

>
>The phone can be set to show up as double or triple original size too.
>You can do it either with just a monitor (and nothing else) or a PC.

On 01/09/23 16:44, Ken Blake wrote:
>>If you're sitting at your desk at home or at work, you just mirror the
>>entire phone (including keyboard, mouse & clipboard) onto the display.
>
> That's useless, as far as I'm concerned. If I'm sitting at my desk,
> I'm going to use my desktop PC, not my phone.

That's fine since the whole point of computers is that you make the
computer do what you want that computer to do - which is your choice.

> The only reason I have a smart phone is to provide e-mail and web
> access when I'm *not* home.

That works fine for you but many people use a phone to make phone calls.

And, many people use a phone to send/receive mms/sms texts to/from people.
Also, many people have their calendar set up on their smart phones too.

Each of those is easier when you're as old as I am (almost 90!) and your
eyes aren't as good as they used to be so a 15-inch phone is really useful.

So is being able to find a contact or type a message on a real keyboard.
As is being able to hear the phone calls using the powerful PC speakers.

All this works while the phone is in your pocket or downstairs because the
phone only needs to be connected to the LAN to display onto your monitor.

--
Peter Moylin

On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 14:59:37 -0700, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 8/31/23 1:23 PM, David Higton wrote:
>> In message <e52IM.207810$nEzb.38585@fx36.iad>
>> rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote:
>>
>>> The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
>>> phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes don't
>>> even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates six or
>>> more years after launch was just too good to pass up.
>>>
>>> I still miss a lot of features of Android, though, such as customizable...
>>> well, anything. If we could get an 8 year (or heck, even a five year)
>>> Android phone, I might switch back.
>>
>> I was just reading about Fairphone, who promise exactly what you're
>> asking for. I have no personal experience to go on though.
>>
>>> Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.
>>
>> Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard
>> do?
>
>Those are cute, but disappointing. Quite a while back I had a roll-up
>near-full-size USB keyboard .

So did I. I used mine with my tablet back when I used a tablet. I
stopped using it, because I often found keys to be unresponsive.

> Surely there's a bluetooth version
>available now.

I don't particularly care whether it's wired or wireless, but I do
care whether it would work with my Pixel 4a phone.

If you or someone else could recommend an inexpensive reliable
portable (rollup, folding, or just very small) keyboard that I could
easily take with me when I traveled, I'd give it a try.

>https://www.walmart.com/c/kp/bluetooth-roll-up-keyboard

On 01/09/23 13:56, Theo wrote:
> but IMHO they scored a massive own goal by using a MediaTek chip, which is
> bottom of the barrel in terms of support for Android updates from the
> manufacturer.

These are August 2023 Smartphone Processors Rankings I found in a search.
https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-list/rating

What kind of "Android updates" are you seeking for the hardware CPU?

--
Peter Moylin

On Fri, 01 Sep 2023 07:59:56 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 14:59:37 -0700, The Real Bev
><bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 8/31/23 1:23 PM, David Higton wrote:
>>> In message <e52IM.207810$nEzb.38585@fx36.iad>
>>> rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
>>>> phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes don't
>>>> even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates six or
>>>> more years after launch was just too good to pass up.
>>>>
>>>> I still miss a lot of features of Android, though, such as customizable...
>>>> well, anything. If we could get an 8 year (or heck, even a five year)
>>>> Android phone, I might switch back.
>>>
>>> I was just reading about Fairphone, who promise exactly what you're
>>> asking for. I have no personal experience to go on though.
>>>
>>>> Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.
>>>
>>> Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard
>>> do?
>>
>>Those are cute, but disappointing. Quite a while back I had a roll-up
>>near-full-size USB keyboard .
>
>
>So did I. I used mine with my tablet back when I used a tablet. I
>stopped using it, because I often found keys to be unresponsive.

I just found that old one, and thought I would try it on my Pixel X4.
But it has a USB connector. Are the USB adaptors that are available
any good? Here's one for only $5;

https://amzn.to/3R48bMV

I thought I would order it and try it, unless someone tells me it's no
good.

>> Surely there's a bluetooth version
>>available now.
>
>I don't particularly care whether it's wired or wireless, but I do
>care whether it would work with my Pixel 4a phone.
>
>If you or someone else could recommend an inexpensive reliable
>portable (rollup, folding, or just very small) keyboard that I could
>easily take with me when I traveled, I'd give it a try.
>
>>https://www.walmart.com/c/kp/bluetooth-roll-up-keyboard

Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 23:29:29 +0200, Peter Moylin
> <peter@moylin.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On 31/08/23 22:56, rdh wrote:
> >>> Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard
> >>> do?
> >>
> >> External keyboards are fine, but it's just another thing to charge,
> >> another thing to keep around, another thing to pull out... I'd rather
> >> just have a keyboard on my phone.
> >
> >If you're sitting at your desk at home or at work, you just mirror the
> >entire phone (including keyboard, mouse & clipboard) onto the display.
>
> That's useless, as far as I'm concerned. If I'm sitting at my desk,
> I'm going to use my desktop PC, not my phone.
>
> The only reason I have a smart phone is to provide e-mail and web
> access when I'm *not* home.

If that's *your* only use of your smartphone, then using your computer
(instead of your smartphone) when you're at home is indeed the sensible
thing to do.

But - as also Peter later explained -, a smartphone can do *so* much
*more* than just e-mail and web, and for many of those uses a large
display or/and large keyboard or/and 'mouse' or/and ... is very, very
useful.

And note this:

> >The phone can be set to show up as double or triple original size too.
> >You can do it either with just a monitor (and nothing else) or a PC.

On 1 Sep 2023 19:03:55 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:

>Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 23:29:29 +0200, Peter Moylin
>> <peter@moylin.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >On 31/08/23 22:56, rdh wrote:
>> >>> Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard
>> >>> do?
>> >>
>> >> External keyboards are fine, but it's just another thing to charge,
>> >> another thing to keep around, another thing to pull out... I'd rather
>> >> just have a keyboard on my phone.
>> >
>> >If you're sitting at your desk at home or at work, you just mirror the
>> >entire phone (including keyboard, mouse & clipboard) onto the display.
>>
>> That's useless, as far as I'm concerned. If I'm sitting at my desk,
>> I'm going to use my desktop PC, not my phone.
>>
>> The only reason I have a smart phone is to provide e-mail and web
>> access when I'm *not* home.
>
> If that's *your* only use of your smartphone, then using your computer
>(instead of your smartphone) when you're at home is indeed the sensible
>thing to do.

Almost only use. I sometimes use it as phone, of course, and I
sometimes read Kindle books on it..

In comp.mobile.android Peter Moylin <peter@moylin.invalid> wrote:
> On 01/09/23 13:56, Theo wrote:
> > but IMHO they scored a massive own goal by using a MediaTek chip, which is
> > bottom of the barrel in terms of support for Android updates from the
> > manufacturer.
>
> These are August 2023 Smartphone Processors Rankings I found in a search.
> https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-list/rating
>
> What kind of "Android updates" are you seeking for the hardware CPU?

The Planet Computers phones are stuck on:

Gemini: Android 8.1 (released 2017, out of security support)
Cosmo: Android 9 (released 2018, out of security support)
Astro Slide: Android 11 (released 2020)

Meanwhile we're currently on Android 13 and expecting a release of 14 this
month.

So, while they are still all on sale, you're getting a 3-6 year old OS and a
lack of security updates.

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote

> So, while they are still all on sale, you're getting a 3-6 year old OS and a
> lack of security updates.

There are at least three ways, fundamentally, to approach your objections.

The first is the way you're approaching it - which seems to be that you're
saying the reason they're not updating the Android OS to the next major
version and/or they're not updating the hotfix patches where needed is
because the processor is not a Qualcomm processor - but I'm not sure that
the version of Android is expressly dependent on the processor since they
can port Android to almost anything they "want" to port Android to, right?

Moving forward to your stated problem set (ignoring the processor
hardware), there are still two more ways to look at the problem set.

One is to realize it's a business decision by the manufacturer of the phone
whether or not they want to support another Android version - and likewise,
it's another business decision by the maker of the phone whether or not
they want to support hotfixes - and yet - there are already other business
decisions made by Google and developers to support _all_ phones that are
Android for dozens of the most critical core modules which are updated
using the Google Play Services mechanism (aka Project Mainline).

The more liberal third way to look at the problem set is to realize that
Android is a mature operating system - where nobody really cares what the
major version of the operating system is - given almost anything that's new
has been back ported to the older versions long ago - and there isn't all
that much which is new (which is what happens with mature platforms).

What people care about, more than an almost meaningless Android major
version number, are the hotfix patches - which - as I already said - are
happening to every Android phone in existence already - via the Project
Mainline Google Play Systems updates (unless you turned them off).

I repeat - you're already getting hotfix patches to _dozens_ of critical
Android modules - and you've been getting them seamlessly for years - ever
since Android 4.4 - so never say you're not getting plenty of hotfixes.

What you're NOT getting are the ten times as many zero-day exploits that
iPhones have where those exploits are expressly because iOS does NOT have
the kind of seamless daily update to scores of critical operating system
modules every single day - to _billions_ of Android phones of version 4.4+.
https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog

... What would you rather have? ...

An iPhone whose number of zero-day holes is astronomical, and getting worse
year over year to the tune of twice a month and, even worse, an iPhone
whose full hotfix support instantly dies the moment a new release is
shipped, and, *as a result, has _ten times_ as many _active_ exploits*...

... or ...

An Android which is malware scanned upon every installation and scanned
every day and which is seamlessly updated daily (over the Google Play
System daily) for over two dozen critical modules no matter how old that
Android phone is (as long as it's Android 4.4 or higher)?

... Your choice ...

Wally J wrote:

>Here... I'll help you with the references which prove that Apple
>supports only one (yes - only a single release) for full hotfixes &
>always has.
>https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/
>https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-
>flaws-in-latest-os-releases
>https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/

As you imply, Apple's security hotfixes (updates) are only guaranteed
for the latest full upgrade, which currently is iOS 16.x. In rare
cases they may make the security patches available for a prior version
of iOS such as 15.x. But to be fair, every iPhone will receive at
least 5-6 full iOS versions, which each will contain updates as they
become available. So that means iPhones will remain fully supported
with security patches over that time span so long as the user upgrades
to each new version of iOS and also downloads the security patches
(hotfixes).

I think you're saying Android does it differently and you don't have to
upgrade to new full versions of the OS, yet you can still receive
security patches even if your phone has the original version. If this
is true, why do you think Android's model is better?