On 9/11/23 03:46, Wally J wrote:
> And you should be informed EVERYTHING on that iOS monolith becomes
> _instantly_ unsupported the moment Apple stops supporting that 1 release.
>
> Meanwhile on _every other common consumer platform_, the drivers, and the
> default system apps and the core modules, etc., are supported for as long
> as a decade or more.
>

Geezus, now I'm sad I'm stuck with an iPhone.

> Android still fully supports all Android 10 and up phones for up to 37 core
> modules which are automatically updated over the Internet every single day.
>
> Even Qualcomm firmware drivers are supported seamlessly over the Internet.
> All of this you were completely ignorant of before - but no longer.
>
> Do you agree now that Apple support is easily the worst in the industry?
>

I also dislike how they don't have any kind of compatibility mode for
software "made for older versions". At the very least, they don't
outright remove it from your phone on update.

--
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote

>> Meanwhile on _every other common consumer platform_, the drivers, and the
>> default system apps and the core modules, etc., are supported for as long
>> as a decade or more.
>>
>
> Geezus, now I'm sad I'm stuck with an iPhone.

I use iOS and Android every single day - for years and years.
*The iOS devices are all garbage compared to Android*

It's not so much that the iOS devices lack useful hardware.
*It's that Apple drastically limits what iPhones can do*
(Google can't limit what an Android phone can do.)

Yet people love iPhones - just like people join religious cults.
*It doesn't have to make any sense why people like them.*

People are allowed to like the iPhone.

But what they should be is NOT ignorant about the alternatives if they're
going to lie repeatedly by claiming the iPhone is a God-like creature that
can do things that it simply never did - and certainly doesn't do.

The religious iKook zealots have been lying about support for years.
*The iPhone has the _shortest_ overall operating system support.*

Only someone educated in how operating systems update would understand.

I have iPads (and some in my family plan have iPhones) and those people
love them - but - get this - the iPhone owner is _always_ ignorant.

They can't be intelligent because they wasted their money for nothing.

Seriously.
*There's NOTHING useful iOS does that Android doesn't already do.*

And my Android phone was free in April of 2021 when T-Mobile gave every USA
postpaid customer a free 5G phone if they wanted it (they gave me three).

That free phone is more powerful than any iPhone ever sold, simply because
it has an sd slot, a battery that can jump-start your car, and the ability
to load thousands upon thousands (upon thousands!) of apps an iPhone can't.
>> Android still fully supports all Android 10 and up phones for up to 37 core
>> modules which are automatically updated over the Internet every single day.
>>
>> Even Qualcomm firmware drivers are supported seamlessly over the Internet.
>> All of this you were completely ignorant of before - but no longer.
>>
>> Do you agree now that Apple support is easily the worst in the industry?
>>
>
> I also dislike how they don't have any kind of compatibility mode for
> software "made for older versions".

Nobody knows of any end-of-life (EOL) date for half the components of the
Android operating system (e.g., mainline & treble) and another third are
always available on the play store (e.g., default apps), so there's only a
very small component of Android which isn't updated essentially forever.(1)

> At the very least, they don't
> outright remove it from your phone on update.

Classic of iPhone owners always being afraid of what isn't going to happen.
--
(1) Forever, in this case, means it's not only updated without any EOL
date, but it's open sourced so that the community can support it too.

Dana Thu, 31 Aug 2023 10:12:10 -0500, rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> napis'o:
> The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
> phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes
> don't even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates
> six or more years after launch was just too good to pass up.
>
> I still miss a lot of features of Android, though, such as
> customizable... well, anything. If we could get an 8 year (or heck, even
> a five year) Android phone, I might switch back.

And install LineageOS on it...

>
> Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.
>

Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote

> With smartphone tech at a plateau - maybe it's time for a sustainable
> user-serviceable phone with 5 major updates & 8 years of hotfix support
> https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/30/23843287/fairphone-5-price-release-date-specs-features-repairable-smartphone

Just in today... the truth about Apple products (despite Apple's lies)...

Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT
PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)...

*iPhone 15 Teardown Reveals Software Lockdown*
�<https://www.ifixit.com/News/82867/iphone-15-teardown-reveals-software-lockdown>
"Repairable design undermined by parts-pairing DRM"

Today iFixIt retroactively downgraded the iPhone 14 to DO NOT PURCHASE!
*We Are Retroactively Dropping the iPhone's Repairability Score*
<https://www.ifixit.com/News/82493/we-are-retroactively-dropping-the-iphones-repairability-score-en>
"Systematic Parts Pairing Undermines Design Improvements"

What it shows is that Apple's lies about repairability even fooled iFixIt
for a while - but they have fixed that by recommending nobody purchase
either the iPhone 14 or the iPhone 15 if repairability is an issue.
Repairability of iPhone 14/15 Pro Max = 4 out of 10 (i.e., DO NOT PURCHASE!)
Repairability of iPhone 14/15 Pro = 4 out of 10 (i.e., DO NOT PURCHASE!)
Repairability of iPhone 14/15 Plus = 4 out of 10 (i.e., DO NOT PURCHASE!)
Repairability of iPhone 14/15 = 4 out of 10 (i.e., DO NOT PURCHASE!)

Note: Interestingly, iFixIt also said Apple's 5G modem team was so
incompetent that they said they felt for Steve Cook in how bad they are.

"Apple's 5G modem team has been toiling in isolation for years without
any hardware to show for it. We're not sure who [sic] to feel for,
Tim Cook's wallet or the poor Apple lawyers who had to grovel
with Qualcomm a new contract. Amazingly, the hundreds of
engineers working on this project for first-Infineon,
then-Intel, and now-Apple have yet to ship a single 5G modem
to customers. That's got to be demoralizing."
--
I supply the truth about Android and Apple products where every fact is
backed up by reliable sources such as these two iFixIt articles from today.

On 9/26/23 13:56, Wally J wrote:
> Just in today... the truth about Apple products (despite Apple's lies)...
>
> Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT
> PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)...

IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you care
about the camera (which I don't).

Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing support..
--
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote

>> Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT
>> PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)...
>
> IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you care
> about the camera (which I don't).

The main point was iFixIt rated the iPhone 15 series as DO NOT PURCHASE
if repairability is a concern - where the camera is only one part.

Also, iFixIt retroactively DOWNGRADED the iPhone 14 series to the same
dismal DO NOT PURCHASE rating (if repair is of a concern to the buyer).

The strategic reason Apple makes the iPhones almost impossible for a
homeowner to repair isn't so much that Apple enjoys contributing to ewaste
- it's - as you said - Apple doesn't want the phone to last all that long.

It's the same reason Apple puts those undeniably cheap anemic batteries -
which iFixit even called "anemic" since that's part of Apple's strategy.

Given all batteries degrade to a point that they no longer work, and since
the degradation is based on charge cycles, iPhone batteries die sooner.

The iKooks hate that fact - but none of them has ever taken a class in
chemistry or physics so they only quote Apple's ridiculous advertisements.

Now - to the camera you speak about - it's not clear if you own the adult
cognitive skills to comprehend iPhone cameras rarely make the top ten.

Are you aware of that fact?

The only place iPhone cameras are said to excel is in Apple advertisements.
Real world tests almost always show iPhone cameras are just OK - not great.

In summary, is your camera assessment based on Apple's advertisements?
Or on the real-world unbiased tests (e.g., from reputable camera testers)?

On 2023-09-26 12:46, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/26/23 13:56, Wally J wrote:
>> Just in today... the truth about Apple products (despite Apple's lies)...
>>
>> Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT
>> PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)...
>
> IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you care
> about the camera (which I don't).
>
> Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing support..

Really?

They're removing what support: the OS?

They're removing that after a full 6 YEARS.

On 2023-09-26 14:13, Wally J wrote:
> candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
>
>>> Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT
>>> PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)...
>>
>> IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you care
>> about the camera (which I don't).
>
> The main point was iFixIt rated the iPhone 15 series as DO NOT PURCHASE
> if repairability is a concern - where the camera is only one part.
>
> Also, iFixIt retroactively DOWNGRADED the iPhone 14 series to the same
> dismal DO NOT PURCHASE rating (if repair is of a concern to the buyer).

Why must you lie, Arlen?

For the record, iFixit issued no such rating.

On 9/26/23 16:13, Wally J wrote:
> candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
> Now - to the camera you speak about - it's not clear if you own the adult
> cognitive skills to comprehend iPhone cameras rarely make the top ten.
>
> Are you aware of that fact?

I meant more that the camera is about the only thing they actually
change.. besides removing ports and stuff
--
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2023-09-26 15:46, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/26/23 13:56, Wally J wrote:
>> Just in today... the truth about Apple products (despite Apple's lies)...
>>
>> Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT
>> PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)...
>
> IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you care
> about the camera (which I don't).
>
> Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing support..

How so? My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016). Will be replaced by a 15 soon.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-09-26 14:56, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/26/23 16:13, Wally J wrote:
>> candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
>> Now - to the camera you speak about - it's not clear if you own the adult
>> cognitive skills to comprehend iPhone cameras rarely make the top ten.
>>
>> Are you aware of that fact?
>
> I meant more that the camera is about the only thing they actually
> change.. besides removing ports and stuff

I would put much stock in what Arlen says.

iPhone cameras regularly occupy a few places in the top ten:

<https://www.dxomark.com/smartphones/>

Currently, that's 3 out of the top 10, and 5 of the top 12.

But then, Arlen only posts about these scores just before the newest
iPhones are released, so he can compare an almost year-old iPhone to
everything released since then.

:-)

On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 18:21:10 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT
>>> PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)...
>>
>> IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you care
>> about the camera (which I don't).
>>
>> Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing support..
>
> How so? My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016). Will be replaced by a 15 soon.

Does that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support from Apple?

On 2023-09-26 18:57, Patrick wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 18:21:10 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT
>>>> PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)...
>>>
>>> IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you
>>> care about the camera (which I don't).
>>>
>>> Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing
>>> support..
>>
>> How so?  My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016).  Will be replaced by a 15
>> soon.
>
> Does that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support from Apple?

It was updated to iOS 15.7.9 (Sept 11 2013) - which was an "Apple
security update". I don't believe it gets hot fix patches - and not too
worried about that though some trolls will go full keyboard abuse on it.

Per Apple:

Available for: iPhone 6s (all models), iPhone 7 (all models), iPhone SE
(1st generation), iPad Air 2, iPad mini (4th generation), and iPod touch
(7th generation)

Impact: Processing a maliciously crafted image may lead to arbitrary
code execution. Apple is aware of a report that this issue may have been
actively exploited.

Description: A buffer overflow issue was addressed with improved memory
handling.

CVE-2023-41064: The Citizen Lab at The University of Torontoʼs Munk School

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 27 Sep 2023 at 12:12:25 AM, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

>>>> Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing
>>>> support..
>>>
>>> How so?� My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016).� Will be replaced by a 15
>>> soon.
>>
>> Does that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support from Apple?
>
> I don't believe it gets hot fix patches

No iPhone older than the XR gets anywhere near the patches Apple has fixed.

So it's good you don't care about your iPhone 7 not being safe to use.

Otherwise, if you cared about security, you wouldn't go near an iPhone 7.
--
Cheers, Quellen

On 2023-09-26 19:22, Quellen wrote:
> On 27 Sep 2023 at 12:12:25 AM, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing
>>>>> support..
>>>>
>>>> How so?� My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016).� Will be replaced by a 15
>>>> soon.
>>>
>>> Does that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support from Apple?
>>
>> I don't believe it gets hot fix patches
>
> No iPhone older than the XR gets anywhere near the patches Apple has fixed.
>
> So it's good you don't care about your iPhone 7 not being safe to use.
>
> Otherwise, if you cared about security, you wouldn't go near an iPhone 7.

ROFL.

IAC, since I retired, lost my 000 license (license to kill with sub 10kT
tactical nuclear endorsement) the security of my SO's iPhone is not a
huge concern.

(She lost her 00 license after that unfortunate event in Bucharest ...
good thing we had good insurance for "accidental" sniping of diplomats.)
But they gave her a nice job in planning and accounting.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-09-26 15:57, Patrick wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 18:21:10 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT
>>>> PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)...
>>>
>>> IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you
>>> care about the camera (which I don't).
>>>
>>> Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing
>>> support..
>>
>> How so?  My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016).  Will be replaced by a 15
>> soon.
>
> Does that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support from Apple?

Nope...

....but show me a phone released in 2016 that does.

On 2023-09-26 16:22, Quellen wrote:
> On 27 Sep 2023 at 12:12:25 AM, Alan Browne<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing
>>>>> support..
>>>> How so?� My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016).� Will be replaced by a 15
>>>> soon.
>>> Does that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support from Apple?
>> I don't believe it gets hot fix patches
> No iPhone older than the XR gets anywhere near the patches Apple has fixed.
>
> So it's good you don't care about your iPhone 7 not being safe to use.
>
> Otherwise, if you cared about security, you wouldn't go near an iPhone 7.
> -- Cheers, Quellen

"Arlen".

Your name is "Arlen".

On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:59:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
> the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.

It's what candycanearter07 said it was.

Apple makes all iPhones older than the XR insecure for the reasons that
candycanearter07 said, which is they want you to buy the newer iPhones.

You may not care Apple doesn't support an iPhone 7 but a lot of people pay
twice as much every few years for the few iPhones that are fully patched.

Which was what candycanearter07 was trying to explain to you.

On 2023-09-26 17:42, Patrick wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:59:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>>  the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.
>
> It's what candycanearter07 said it was.
>
> Apple makes all iPhones older than the XR insecure for the reasons that
> candycanearter07 said, which is they want you to buy the newer iPhones.
>
> You may not care Apple doesn't support an iPhone 7 but a lot of people
> pay twice as much every few years for the few iPhones that are fully
> patched.
>
> Which was what candycanearter07 was trying to explain to you.

So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?

On 2023-09-26 20:42, Patrick wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:59:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>>  the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.
>
> It's what candycanearter07 said it was.
>
> Apple makes all iPhones older than the XR insecure for the reasons that
> candycanearter07 said, which is they want you to buy the newer iPhones.
>
> You may not care Apple doesn't support an iPhone 7 but a lot of people
> pay twice as much every few years for the few iPhones that are fully
> patched.
>
> Which was what candycanearter07 was trying to explain to you.

He's about 40 dB shy of any signal that is useful to me.

You're in the noise. Deep.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-09-26 20:19, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-09-26 16:22, Quellen wrote:
>> On 27 Sep 2023 at 12:12:25 AM, Alan Browne<bitbucket@blackhole.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing
>>>>>> support..
>>>>> How so?� My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016).� Will be replaced by a 15
>>>>> soon.
>>>> Does that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support from
>>>> Apple?
>>> I don't believe it gets hot fix patches
>> No iPhone older than the XR gets anywhere near the patches Apple has
>> fixed.
>>
>> So it's good you don't care about your iPhone 7 not being safe to use.
>>
>> Otherwise, if you cared about security, you wouldn't go near an iPhone 7.
>> -- Cheers, Quellen
>
> "Arlen".
>
> Your name is "Arlen".

Ah - I just fucked up and replied to it too. I shouldn't newsgroup at
this hour...

(New router installed the other day and we were having issues on (of all
things, Netflix), so I was up here trying to see what I could see. The
enemy, as they say, was me. [Embarrassing thing - new router connects
to a switch; and for some reason I routed another cable back from the
switch to the new router. So, some packets were getting waylaid or
something...]

Proof that I need to clean up the cabling around here...).

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-09-27 03:12, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-09-26 17:42, Patrick wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:59:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>  the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.
>>
>> It's what candycanearter07 said it was.
>>
>> Apple makes all iPhones older than the XR insecure for the reasons
>> that candycanearter07 said, which is they want you to buy the newer
>> iPhones.
>>
>> You may not care Apple doesn't support an iPhone 7 but a lot of people
>> pay twice as much every few years for the few iPhones that are fully
>> patched.
>>
>> Which was what candycanearter07 was trying to explain to you.
>
> So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?

I do.

So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no distinctions.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-09-27 02:19, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-09-26 15:57, Patrick wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 18:21:10 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT
>>>>> PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about
>>>>> repairability)...
>>>>
>>>> IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you
>>>> care about the camera (which I don't).
>>>>
>>>> Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing
>>>> support..
>>>
>>> How so?  My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016).  Will be replaced by a
>>> 15 soon.
>>
>> Does that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support from
>> Apple?
>
> Nope...
>
>
> ...but show me a phone released in 2016 that does.

Fairphone? :-)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 9/27/23 05:13, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
>
> I do.
>
> So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no distinctions.
>

I think they should at least offer free updates if there's a security
problem.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote

>>> So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
>>
>> I do.
>>
>> So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no distinctions.
>>
>
> I think they should at least offer free updates if there's a security
> problem.

Hi candycanearter07,

I'm going to assume you own adult cognitive skills in my post below.

I do not know if you own adult cognition - but I know morons like Alan
Baker and Carlos and even Steve Scharf & Frank Slootweg don't own it.

What these morons don't understand is _how_ operating systems update.
Android updates, much like Windows does... in asynchronous layers.

For example, due to Project Treble, the Qualcomm drivers are updated, over
the Internet, via the Google Play Store update mechanism, asynchronously.

Just like Windows drivers are updated completely outside the realm of the
operating system support itself - such that the support is essentially
forever [1].

This happens with Android & with Windows - but not with the primitive
monolithic slab that iOS is - where those drivers are not updated if the
device can't be updated to iOS 17 (i.e., to the latest single iOS release).

Same with the key apps such as Chrome, GMail, YouTube, etc., all of which
are updated in Windows and Android completely asynchronously of the
operating system support.

More importantly, there are 34 core modules of Android (the number grows
with every Android release starting with Android 10) which are also updated
forever [1] asynchronously (and these are all donated to the AOSP such that
the support - were it to ever waver - would _still_ go on by the community.

Look up Project Mainline (which has changed names over the years).

All this is how Android updates the operating system in layers.

It's NOT how the primitive iOS monolith updates - which - again - takes an
adult level of cognition to comprehend as iOS updates as a rigid monolith.

In short, correct understanding of how operating systems update takes an
adult set of cognitive skills - simply because only iOS is a monolith.

The rest of the common consumer operating systems update in asynchronous
layers (most of which are supported forever [1]).

Very few posters to this newsgroup own the adult cognitive skills to
understand a single word that I said above. Do you?
--
[1] Forever here means far longer than the hardware will last but with no
EOL date specified such that the support easily outlasts our need for it.