On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 13:26:58 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>
>>> There are plenty of online articles professing to kill the OS
>>> updates, but eventually they fail.
>>
>> When Win10 first appeared, I used Winaero Tweaker to disable automatic
>> updates, automatic reboots, and all related nags and notifications.
>> Other methods may have failed along the way, I wouldn't know since I
>> don't use them, but Winaero Tweaker has continued to work just fine.
>
>I also have Winaero Tweaker, and also tried their Update Disable option.
>Mostly works, but I found Microsoft was still sneaking in some updates
>via another service.

That hasn't been my experience. I have one physical PC running Win10 and
multiple Win10VMs, with more coming online all the time. So far, Winaero
Tweaker's 'Disable Updates' has been 100% effective here.

Before that, I tried the hack that updates your working hours so as to
always be in a period where updates should be deferred. That hack didn't
work at all here. I was fortunate to find a solution that worked for me.

>So, I started disabling the other service. Then
>Microsoft added updating into another service and via Task Scheduler
>events (which call the other services). I remember disabling those
>events, but eventually some functionality got disabled that I still
>wanted. The WinAero tweak mostly works, but not completely. I'd still
>see messages on shutdown or next startup about finishing an update. I'm
>sure updates could be fully disabled, but also remember that most tweaks
>are not documented, so the user won't know what to undo when a problem
>later arises.

I'm happy that I didn't run into any of that here.

>If you click on the Help link when you select WinAero's update disable
>option to read up on what it does, all it does is disable the Windows
>Update service. That is not sufficient. It makes no mention of the
>Microsoft Update Health Service, Windows Update Medic Service (used to
>undo disabling the WUserv service), or any of the Task Scheduler events
>(disabling a service just prevents it from automatic loading on Windows
>startup, *not* from another process calling the service's functions in
>their DLLs which instead would require defining SRPs which can only be
>done using the group policy or local security editors that create the
>required registry hash, but which Home users won't have).

Yeah, I've seen their explanation for how the feature works. I can't
explain why it actually works here, on multiple systems, and doesn't work
the same way for you.

>WinAero's tweak to disable Windows updates is the same one I had been
>using for many years back into Windows 7. I also disabled the BITS
>service which is how WU retrieved the updates; however, BITS is not
>exclusive to just WU, and other processes can use it for backgrounded
>low-bandwidth file retrieval, like some AVs. So, I stopped disabling
>BITS, and just disabled WUserv, but that is an incomplete solution on
>Windows 10.

I never bothered to disable any services directly.

Ant <ant@zimage.comant> wrote:
> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
> > On 5/30/2021 6:46 PM, Ant wrote:
> > > HP says to use Windows', but it doesn't offer me one. HP Smart app can't
> > > find my printer. :( Ethernet cable connection works though, but I prefer
> > > USB cable.
> > >
> > > Thank you for reading for reading and hopefully answering soon. :)
>
> > It's highly unlikely that HP, or any other printer manufacturer. has
> > Windows 10 drivers for a 17-year-old printer.
>
> So, they're forcing us to dump our old working reliable printers and buy
> newer printers. :(

As mentioned in the other thread, as long as your interfaces (USB,
Ethernet, etc.) don't change, just use any driver with the PCL level of
your old printer. That's the advantage of standards.

Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Ant <ant@zimage.comant> wrote:
>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/30/2021 6:46 PM, Ant wrote:
>>>> HP says to use Windows', but it doesn't offer me one. HP Smart app can't
>>>> find my printer. :( Ethernet cable connection works though, but I prefer
>>>> USB cable.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for reading for reading and hopefully answering soon. :)
>>
>>> It's highly unlikely that HP, or any other printer manufacturer. has
>>> Windows 10 drivers for a 17-year-old printer.
>>
>> So, they're forcing us to dump our old working reliable printers and buy
>> newer printers. :(
>
> As mentioned in the other thread, as long as your interfaces (USB,
> Ethernet, etc.) don't change, just use any driver with the PCL level of
> your old printer. That's the advantage of standards.

I don't think my old inkjet printer uses PCL?
--
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v6.00 PG; release number IX58SZ64) mobo that was just cleaned on
5/29/2021. :( Zikron job on da 7th tho. :)
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Ant wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> Ant <ant@zimage.comant> wrote:
>>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 5/30/2021 6:46 PM, Ant wrote:
>>>>> HP says to use Windows', but it doesn't offer me one. HP Smart app
>>>>> can't
>>>>> find my printer. :( Ethernet cable connection works though, but I
>>>>> prefer
>>>>> USB cable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for reading for reading and hopefully answering soon. :)
>>>
>>>> It's highly unlikely that HP, or any other printer manufacturer. has
>>>> Windows 10 drivers for a 17-year-old printer.
>>>
>>> So, they're forcing us to dump our old working reliable printers and buy
>>> newer printers. :(
>>
>> As mentioned in the other thread, as long as your interfaces (USB,
>> Ethernet, etc.) don't change, just use any driver with the PCL level of
>> your old printer. That's the advantage of standards.
>
> I don't think my old inkjet printer uses PCL?

https://www.cnet.com/products/hp-photosmart-8450-printer-color-ink-jet-series/

"Language Simulation HP PML
PCL 3
"

Looks like yes, it does.
An older version, no idea what merits
it might have.

Paul

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> I don't think my old inkjet printer uses PCL?

You said it was an HP. Those use PCL, but can have a PS emulation
driver for use on Macs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_Command_Language

Postscript (by Adobe) is another printer document language (PDL).

https://okiprinting-en-gb.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/165/~/what-are-the-differences-between-gdi%2C-pcl-and-postscript-printers%3F

Some printers [used to] offer a choice of a PCL or PS driver. Use PCL
if you mostly print from Office, or similar types, of software. Use PS
if you mostly print from professional DTP or high-definition graphics
program, or want faster printing of PDFs. Typically PCL is faster than
PS, PCL is OS independent hence cross-platform, and PCL is more widely
adopted. PS is mostly for use on Macs. However, PCL is more hardware
specific, and output can vary with the same PCL across different quality
printers. For Windows & Linux, use a PCL printer (faster). For Macs,
use a PS printer (slower, better detail).

An example showing the differences in print quality between PCL and PS
can be seen at:

https://blog.inkjetwholesale.com.au/printer-education/difference-pcl-postscript-drivers/

In article <2pka9dy7woph.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH>
wrote:

> Some printers [used to] offer a choice of a PCL or PS driver. Use PCL
> if you mostly print from Office, or similar types, of software. Use PS
> if you mostly print from professional DTP or high-definition graphics
> program, or want faster printing of PDFs.

what to use depends on the printer and the intent.

> Typically PCL is faster than
> PS, PCL is OS independent hence cross-platform, and PCL is more widely
> adopted. PS is mostly for use on Macs.

false. postscript runs on the printer and therefore it's independent of
any computing platform. it also predates pcl and is more widely used.

print speed depends on the printer itself. consumer printers will not
render as fast as high end professional printers. no surprise there.

> However, PCL is more hardware
> specific, and output can vary with the same PCL across different quality
> printers.

in other words, not cross-platform.

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
....
> >> As mentioned in the other thread, as long as your interfaces (USB,
> >> Ethernet, etc.) don't change, just use any driver with the PCL level of
> >> your old printer. That's the advantage of standards.
> >
> > I don't think my old inkjet printer uses PCL?

> https://www.cnet.com/products/hp-photosmart-8450-printer-color-ink-jet-series/

> "Language Simulation HP PML
> PCL 3
> "

> Looks like yes, it does.
> An older version, no idea what merits
> it might have.

Interesting. I wonder how to test that without messing up my setup. Or
maybe I am using it now? I don't see anything about PCL in its settings
and stuff.
--
RIP, my 10.44 yrs. old EVGA X58 SLI (132-BL-E758; BIOS date 5/11/2010; v6.00 PG; release number IX58SZ64) mobo that was just cleaned on 5/29/2021. :( Zikron job on da 7th tho. :)
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Ant wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> ...
>>>> As mentioned in the other thread, as long as your interfaces (USB,
>>>> Ethernet, etc.) don't change, just use any driver with the PCL level of
>>>> your old printer. That's the advantage of standards.
>>> I don't think my old inkjet printer uses PCL?
>
>> https://www.cnet.com/products/hp-photosmart-8450-printer-color-ink-jet-series/
>
>> "Language Simulation HP PML
>> PCL 3
>> "
>
>> Looks like yes, it does.
>> An older version, no idea what merits
>> it might have.
>
> Interesting. I wonder how to test that without messing up my setup. Or
> maybe I am using it now? I don't see anything about PCL in its settings
> and stuff.

You can see someone conspiring to do such a thing :-)

https://www.artwork.com/support/windows/rawprint/rawprint.htm

The only reason it has a device selector, is to get
the port number (like LPT1 or some USB port).

Paul

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> Ant wrote:
> > Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> > ...
> >>>> As mentioned in the other thread, as long as your interfaces (USB,
> >>>> Ethernet, etc.) don't change, just use any driver with the PCL level of
> >>>> your old printer. That's the advantage of standards.
> >>> I don't think my old inkjet printer uses PCL?
> >
> >> https://www.cnet.com/products/hp-photosmart-8450-printer-color-ink-jet-series/
> >
> >> "Language Simulation HP PML
> >> PCL 3
> >> "
> >
> >> Looks like yes, it does.
> >> An older version, no idea what merits
> >> it might have.
> >
> > Interesting. I wonder how to test that without messing up my setup. Or
> > maybe I am using it now? I don't see anything about PCL in its settings
> > and stuff.

> You can see someone conspiring to do such a thing :-)

> https://www.artwork.com/support/windows/rawprint/rawprint.htm

> The only reason it has a device selector, is to get
> the port number (like LPT1 or some USB port).

Wow, that's really old from Windows 3 days.
--
RIP, my 10.44 yrs. old EVGA X58 SLI (132-BL-E758; BIOS date 5/11/2010; v6.00 PG; release number IX58SZ64) mobo that was just cleaned on 5/29/2021. :( Zikron job on da 7th tho. :)
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Ant wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>> Ant wrote:
>>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>> ...
>>>>>> As mentioned in the other thread, as long as your interfaces (USB,
>>>>>> Ethernet, etc.) don't change, just use any driver with the PCL level of
>>>>>> your old printer. That's the advantage of standards.
>>>>> I don't think my old inkjet printer uses PCL?
>>>> https://www.cnet.com/products/hp-photosmart-8450-printer-color-ink-jet-series/
>>>> "Language Simulation HP PML
>>>> PCL 3
>>>> "
>>>> Looks like yes, it does.
>>>> An older version, no idea what merits
>>>> it might have.
>>> Interesting. I wonder how to test that without messing up my setup. Or
>>> maybe I am using it now? I don't see anything about PCL in its settings
>>> and stuff.
>
>> You can see someone conspiring to do such a thing :-)
>
>> https://www.artwork.com/support/windows/rawprint/rawprint.htm
>
>> The only reason it has a device selector, is to get
>> the port number (like LPT1 or some USB port).
>
> Wow, that's really old from Windows 3 days.

It's just intended to show how crude the method can be.

Paul

Ant <ant@zimage.comant> wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> ...
> > >> As mentioned in the other thread, as long as your interfaces (USB,
> > >> Ethernet, etc.) don't change, just use any driver with the PCL level of
> > >> your old printer. That's the advantage of standards.
> > >
> > > I don't think my old inkjet printer uses PCL?
>
> > https://www.cnet.com/products/hp-photosmart-8450-printer-color-ink-jet-series/
>
> > "Language Simulation HP PML
> > PCL 3
> > "
>
> > Looks like yes, it does.
> > An older version, no idea what merits
> > it might have.
>
> Interesting. I wonder how to test that without messing up my setup. Or
> maybe I am using it now? I don't see anything about PCL in its settings
> and stuff.

All HP printers support PCL. It was designed by HP and is an
industry/de-facto standard ever since, nearly four decades now.

Because it's an industry/de-facto standard, most non-HP printers also
support PCL.

There's no need to test and yes, you're using it (PCL) now. You won't
see anything in its settings because there's no need to set anything,
all is done with commands (Escape Sequences), hence Printer Command
Language.

But maybe if you perform a selftest, it will say (i.e. on the
printout) something about PCL.

And no, don't mess with your setup now it's working. Just remember the
PCL term in case you need to get a (totally) non-working - HP or non-HP
printer to work.

VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
> Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> > Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Ant wrote:
> >>
> >>> HP says to use Windows', but it doesn't offer me one. HP Smart app
> >>> can't find my printer. :( Ethernet cable connection works though,
> >>> but I prefer USB cable.
> >>
> >> It's highly unlikely that HP, or any other printer manufacturer. has
> >> Windows 10 drivers for a 17-year-old printer.
> >
> > So, they're forcing us to dump our old working reliable printers and buy
> > newer printers. :(

> The correct interpretation is THEY are not going to bother to expend
> their resources to continue supporting legacy products that were long
> ago discontinued. They didn't force you to migrate to a later version
> of Windows. That was your choice. Whether it be software or hardware,
> many companies stay on old (and unsupported) versions of Windows to
> retain use of critical albeit old hardware or software.

Well, I did stick with Windows XP Pro. SP3 & 7 SP1 as long as I can with my
old PCs (over a decade!), but they were getting too slow and unsupported for
newer softwares and hardwares. :(
--
RIP 2 the dead American military personnels & my over decade old EVGA X58 SLI (132-BL-E758; BIOS date 5/11/2010; v6.00 PG; release number IX58SZ64) mobo that was just cleaned on 5/30/2021. :(
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