On 2023-11-29 13:37, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 29 Nov 2023 12:12:26 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> They do stream it.
>>
>> OpenRadio app listens to it, no problem. Simple Radio app, no problem.
>> You can listen to it on Firefox, no problem.
>>
>> The problem is listening to the alternate stream that is not futbol, no
>> app broadcasts it, except the station own app, which requires
>> registration. Firefox also listens to it.
>>
>> And today I found the possible URL of that alternate stream, so that I
>> may be able to listen to it on the car with VLC.
>
> Perhaps the streaming service checks your IP.

You can try yourself the urls:

vlc https://emisoras.cadenaser.com/CADENASER
vlc https://emisoras.cadenaser.com/CADENASER2

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 11/28/23 18:37, Wally J wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>
>> Well, that's another reason I use an FM radio instead of internet radio:
>> I refuse to register, login, and be counted to listen to the radio.
>
> As well you should, as anyone who creates a login and logs into an account
> to do something that does not need that account, is a sheep led to
> slaughter (IMHO).
>
> There are very few (almost none) app functionalities that need an account.
>
> While some things need an account (e.g., mail, banking, medical record
> lookups, cloud storage, etc.,) most things do not need an account.
>
> Even the Android phone doesn't need an account.
> It works just fine without it.
>
> What types of functionality _requires_ an account anyway?

Messaging, Inventory, saving your settings, keeping track of progress.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 29 Nov 2023 15:05:19 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>On 2023-11-29 13:37, Dave Royal wrote:
>> On 29 Nov 2023 12:12:26 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> They do stream it.
>>>
>>> OpenRadio app listens to it, no problem. Simple Radio app, no problem.
>>> You can listen to it on Firefox, no problem.
>>>
>>> The problem is listening to the alternate stream that is not futbol, no
>>> app broadcasts it, except the station own app, which requires
>>> registration. Firefox also listens to it.
>>>
>>> And today I found the possible URL of that alternate stream, so that I
>>> may be able to listen to it on the car with VLC.
>>
>> Perhaps the streaming service checks your IP.
>
>You can try yourself the urls:
>
>vlc https://emisoras.cadenaser.com/CADENASER
>vlc https://emisoras.cadenaser.com/CADENASER2

Those play fine. They appear to be the same program. Let me know if one of
them broadcasts football.

--
(Remove numerics from email address)

On 2023-11-29 17:00, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 29 Nov 2023 15:05:19 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-11-29 13:37, Dave Royal wrote:
>>> On 29 Nov 2023 12:12:26 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> They do stream it.
>>>>
>>>> OpenRadio app listens to it, no problem. Simple Radio app, no problem.
>>>> You can listen to it on Firefox, no problem.
>>>>
>>>> The problem is listening to the alternate stream that is not futbol, no
>>>> app broadcasts it, except the station own app, which requires
>>>> registration. Firefox also listens to it.
>>>>
>>>> And today I found the possible URL of that alternate stream, so that I
>>>> may be able to listen to it on the car with VLC.
>>>
>>> Perhaps the streaming service checks your IP.
>>
>> You can try yourself the urls:
>>
>> vlc https://emisoras.cadenaser.com/CADENASER
>> vlc https://emisoras.cadenaser.com/CADENASER2
>
> Those play fine. They appear to be the same program. Let me know if one of
> them broadcasts football.

Most of the day, and most days, they are the same program. It is only a
few times when they split, when there is an important match at the hours
of their main normal programming. I guess it may happen today at 17:30
or 18:25, but I'm not certain.

I will try later myself. Till today, I could only listen to the
alternate stream using FF, finding those two streams in the open is a
new and surprising finding.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote

>> What types of functionality _requires_ an account anyway?
>
> Messaging, Inventory, saving your settings, keeping track of progress.

Thanks for that information where I would truly love to know what apps
absolutely require an account since I can barely think of any that do.

BTW, we haven't spoken for a while, so at the end of this message are some
screenshots I just made today for another thread, but which you asked for.

Back to your point about what types of functionality require an account,
I can only think of a few that require it, one of which is email.

But notice there is email... and there is the mail user agent (MUA), where
only the Google MUA _requires_ the Google Account on the phone itself. And
even then, only on Android phones (not on iPhones)... my point being there
are ways around these requirements (like use a different MUA than "GMail").

You mentioned "messaging", where _some_ messaging platforms do require an
account (because they use a central server), such as Google Voice, Apple's
Messages app (which uses an iMessage server), WhatsApp, FaceBook,
Talkatone, etc.

But the _main_ messaging app on Android (for SMS/MMS) does not (as far as I
know but I don't know if RCS changes that equation).

That means I don't need an "account" to log into but of course, the phone
itself is tied to an account on T-Mobile (or Verizon, AT&T, etc.). The
MMS/SMS "messaging" app goes through them, but there isn't a login, per se.

As for "Inventory, saving your settings, keeping track of progress", why
can't you store that stuff locally on the phone itself?

Note that almost everything that "says" it needs an account... doesn't.

---< here are screenshots I had promised you a while ago >---
<https://i.postimg.cc/7P7NCctS/locked-01.jpg> AppleID is locked by Apple
<https://i.postimg.cc/4dHQQFfk/locked-02.jpg> Password was always good
<https://i.postimg.cc/vTdfLY2f/locked-03.jpg> Apple wants a gov license!!!
<https://i.postimg.cc/rpmJKw7p/locked-04.jpg> Then, iCloud works again
<https://i.postimg.cc/rwyGPpV9/locked-05.jpg> Then, Messages works again
---< Above and below it shows Apple requires periodic log in & ID >---
<https://i.postimg.cc/9fPjQpr3/nag01.jpg> 3 iOS nag items
<https://i.postimg.cc/wxwgN0Fg/nag02.jpg> 2 iOS nag items
<https://i.postimg.cc/3NVqB4dC/nag03.jpg> 1 iOS nag item (permanent)

I forget what thread I need to append those to (but the iKooks, who are
all incredibly ignorant) don't know the first thing of how Apple works.
--
Most of what I know about mobile devices is because I test them myself.

On 11/29/23 10:44, Wally J wrote:
> candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
>
>>> What types of functionality _requires_ an account anyway?
>>
>> Messaging, Inventory, saving your settings, keeping track of progress.
>
> Thanks for that information where I would truly love to know what apps
> absolutely require an account since I can barely think of any that do.
>
> BTW, we haven't spoken for a while, so at the end of this message are some
> screenshots I just made today for another thread, but which you asked for.

sorry about not posting here much

> Back to your point about what types of functionality require an account,
> I can only think of a few that require it, one of which is email.
>
> But notice there is email... and there is the mail user agent (MUA), where
> only the Google MUA _requires_ the Google Account on the phone itself. And
> even then, only on Android phones (not on iPhones)... my point being there
> are ways around these requirements (like use a different MUA than "GMail").
>
> You mentioned "messaging", where _some_ messaging platforms do require an
> account (because they use a central server), such as Google Voice, Apple's
> Messages app (which uses an iMessage server), WhatsApp, FaceBook,
> Talkatone, etc.
>
> But the _main_ messaging app on Android (for SMS/MMS) does not (as far as I
> know but I don't know if RCS changes that equation).
>
> That means I don't need an "account" to log into but of course, the phone
> itself is tied to an account on T-Mobile (or Verizon, AT&T, etc.). The
> MMS/SMS "messaging" app goes through them, but there isn't a login, per se.
>
> As for "Inventory, saving your settings, keeping track of progress", why
> can't you store that stuff locally on the phone itself?

Displaying it to other people? idk

> Note that almost everything that "says" it needs an account... doesn't.
>
> ---< here are screenshots I had promised you a while ago >---
> <https://i.postimg.cc/7P7NCctS/locked-01.jpg> AppleID is locked by Apple
> <https://i.postimg.cc/4dHQQFfk/locked-02.jpg> Password was always good
> <https://i.postimg.cc/vTdfLY2f/locked-03.jpg> Apple wants a gov license!!!
> <https://i.postimg.cc/rpmJKw7p/locked-04.jpg> Then, iCloud works again
> <https://i.postimg.cc/rwyGPpV9/locked-05.jpg> Then, Messages works again
> ---< Above and below it shows Apple requires periodic log in & ID >---
> <https://i.postimg.cc/9fPjQpr3/nag01.jpg> 3 iOS nag items
> <https://i.postimg.cc/wxwgN0Fg/nag02.jpg> 2 iOS nag items
> <https://i.postimg.cc/3NVqB4dC/nag03.jpg> 1 iOS nag item (permanent)
>
> I forget what thread I need to append those to (but the iKooks, who are
> all incredibly ignorant) don't know the first thing of how Apple works.

Thanks.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 11/28/23 18:37, Wally J wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>
>> Well, that's another reason I use an FM radio instead of internet radio:
>> I refuse to register, login, and be counted to listen to the radio.
>
> As well you should, as anyone who creates a login and logs into an account
> to do something that does not need that account, is a sheep led to
> slaughter (IMHO).
>
> There are very few (almost none) app functionalities that need an account.
>
> While some things need an account (e.g., mail, banking, medical record
> lookups, cloud storage, etc.,) most things do not need an account.
>
> Even the Android phone doesn't need an account.
> It works just fine without it.
>
> What types of functionality _requires_ an account anyway?

Messaging, Inventory, saving your settings, keeping track of progress.
At least those are the main stuff I see accounts used for.

oh and of course buying stuff for it
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2023-11-29 17:44, Wally J wrote:
> candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
>
>>> What types of functionality _requires_ an account anyway?
>>
>> Messaging, Inventory, saving your settings, keeping track of progress.
>
> Thanks for that information where I would truly love to know what apps
> absolutely require an account since I can barely think of any that do.
>
> BTW, we haven't spoken for a while, so at the end of this message are some
> screenshots I just made today for another thread, but which you asked for.
>
> Back to your point about what types of functionality require an account,
> I can only think of a few that require it, one of which is email.
>
> But notice there is email... and there is the mail user agent (MUA), where
> only the Google MUA _requires_ the Google Account on the phone itself. And
> even then, only on Android phones (not on iPhones)... my point being there
> are ways around these requirements (like use a different MUA than "GMail").
>
> You mentioned "messaging", where _some_ messaging platforms do require an
> account (because they use a central server), such as Google Voice, Apple's
> Messages app (which uses an iMessage server), WhatsApp, FaceBook,
> Talkatone, etc.
>
> But the _main_ messaging app on Android (for SMS/MMS) does not (as far as I
> know but I don't know if RCS changes that equation).

No.

There is no need, the app only gets the messages sent by the provider to
that phone number. There is a password, mind: the SIM card PIN number
(ok, it can be blanked).

Things change when you want to read/write messages on the computer; they
can use an authorization by taking a photo with the phone of a dot
pattern on the computer, but if the computer has independent access, it
needs a login/pass.

>
> That means I don't need an "account" to log into but of course, the phone
> itself is tied to an account on T-Mobile (or Verizon, AT&T, etc.). The
> MMS/SMS "messaging" app goes through them, but there isn't a login, per se.

There is a login, only that you don't notice it.

> As for "Inventory, saving your settings, keeping track of progress", why
> can't you store that stuff locally on the phone itself?

Of course you can, but the point is "across devices".

In the case of "radio apps" you get the same list of favourites or saved
stations on your different phones, "automatically".

Those things can be, theoretically be saved on google servers (google
drive) with a google account (I don't know the requirements), or at some
server of the application provider.

And it can be absolutely innocent. You save your configuration/status,
and they never ever have a peek at it or use it for anything at all. It
is just some feature that in many apps is optional.

Some developers only want to know how many people use the feature, or
how many subscribe per month. Ie, statistics of some sort.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote

>> What types of functionality _requires_ an account anyway?
>
> Messaging, Inventory, saving your settings, keeping track of progress.
> At least those are the main stuff I see accounts used for.
>
> oh and of course buying stuff for it

The only things that need accounts are stuff that requires data on the
cloud, or compute power on the cloud - but they're few & far between.

SMS/MMS messaging, as far as I know, does not require creating an account
to log into on the phone (although, of course, it requires a carrier SIM).

Certainly all the messaging that goes through servers requires an account,
such as Apple's Messages, Facebook's WhatsApp, Google Voice, etc.

Inventory? Why can't inventory be stored on the phone?
Settings saved? What's wrong with saving them to the phone?
Progress? Again, what's wrong with saving them to the phone.

Note: If you're afraid of losing the saved stuff, save it to the sdcard and
then copy the saved data to a safe storage when you feel like it.

Buying stuff doesn't generally need an account (but it does need a credit
card), but of course, if you want Amazon Prime Free Shipping, it does.

Bear in mind, the less intelligent people are, the more accounts they have.
And vice versa.

For example, I download apps off the Google Play Store all the time without
having to create a Google Account, just as I make YouTube playlists and
subscribe to channels without having to create a Google Account to do it.

The smarter someone is, the fewer accounts they will be logging into
(IMHO).
--
Most of what I know about iOS & Android is learned from empirical testing.

On 29 Nov 2023 16:00:35 -0000 (UTC) Dave Royal wrote:
>On 29 Nov 2023 15:05:19 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>On 2023-11-29 13:37, Dave Royal wrote:
>>> On 29 Nov 2023 12:12:26 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> They do stream it.
>>>>
>>>> OpenRadio app listens to it, no problem. Simple Radio app, no problem.
>>>> You can listen to it on Firefox, no problem.
>>>>
>>>> The problem is listening to the alternate stream that is not futbol, no
>>>> app broadcasts it, except the station own app, which requires
>>>> registration. Firefox also listens to it.
>>>>
>>>> And today I found the possible URL of that alternate stream, so that I
>>>> may be able to listen to it on the car with VLC.
>>>
>>> Perhaps the streaming service checks your IP.
>>
>>You can try yourself the urls:
>>
>>vlc https://emisoras.cadenaser.com/CADENASER
>>vlc https://emisoras.cadenaser.com/CADENASER2
>
>Those play fine. They appear to be the same program. Let me know if one of
>them broadcasts football.

They're both broadcasting football ATM. I heard 'sevilla' and 'Ramos'.

--
(Remove numerics from email address)

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

>> But the _main_ messaging app on Android (for SMS/MMS) does not (as far as I
>> know but I don't know if RCS changes that equation).
>
> No.
>
> There is no need, the app only gets the messages sent by the provider to
> that phone number. There is a password, mind: the SIM card PIN number
> (ok, it can be blanked).

Thanks for clarifying that RCS doesn't add any extra account requirement.

> Things change when you want to read/write messages on the computer; they
> can use an authorization by taking a photo with the phone of a dot
> pattern on the computer, but if the computer has independent access, it
> needs a login/pass.

I use a computer all the time to manage my Android phone, and all I have to
do is accept the "trust challenge" which takes on a variety of forms.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZK9B82gP/adb15.jpg> adb pair [IP][Port] [code]
<https://i.postimg.cc/SRRXtvKh/adb16.jpg> Android 12 Wireless Pairing
<https://i.postimg.cc/CLWZmJT3/adb17.jpg> Allow wireless debugging

There's no need to "log into" any account to "manage" my phone on a PC.

Hell, I can install and delete apps and modify settings, and everything.
<https://i.postimg.cc/wvsbcNBz/scrcpy05.jpg> Drag APK from Windows

Since none of that needs an account to be created, I have to wonder what on
earth on an Android phone truly "requires" an account to be created.

Of course, billions of apps _want_ an account - but that's a completely
different question of wanting you to create one versus actually needing it.

>> That means I don't need an "account" to log into but of course, the phone
>> itself is tied to an account on T-Mobile (or Verizon, AT&T, etc.). The
>> MMS/SMS "messaging" app goes through them, but there isn't a login, per se.
>
> There is a login, only that you don't notice it.

Yes. Let's not get picky (we'll leave that to the iPhone people to play
those games). Suffice to say nobody is getting cellular service for free,
and everyone who is getting it has an account of some format.

Although it's created with the credit card, in my case anyway, and there's
no login (although if I wanted to get billing paperless their would be).

>> As for "Inventory, saving your settings, keeping track of progress", why
>> can't you store that stuff locally on the phone itself?
>
> Of course you can, but the point is "across devices".

Hmmm... true. But not really. If you're good at computers, you can sync to
your own computers. Why do you need to sync to someone else's computer?

My problem with OwnCloud is that it really doesn't run on Windows.
So I'd have to set up a desktop as a Linux server to use it fruitfully.
> In the case of "radio apps" you get the same list of favourites or saved
> stations on your different phones, "automatically".
>
> Those things can be, theoretically be saved on google servers (google
> drive) with a google account (I don't know the requirements), or at some
> server of the application provider.

I haven't set up my own server, but the way I'd approach that problem set,
if I wanted to implement it, would be to set up my router on the net.

Then I could use my own router as the OwnCloud server and accomplish what
you're seeking. As always, it takes intelligence & effort to maintain
privacy. I haven't expended that effort. But that's how I'd do it if I did.
> And it can be absolutely innocent. You save your configuration/status,
> and they never ever have a peek at it or use it for anything at all. It
> is just some feature that in many apps is optional.
>
> Some developers only want to know how many people use the feature, or
> how many subscribe per month. Ie, statistics of some sort.

Understood that the account need can be innocent - but - you know as well
as I do that plenty of things ask for an account that don't really need it.

On 2023-11-29 20:49, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 29 Nov 2023 16:00:35 -0000 (UTC) Dave Royal wrote:
>> On 29 Nov 2023 15:05:19 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-11-29 13:37, Dave Royal wrote:
>>>> On 29 Nov 2023 12:12:26 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> They do stream it.
>>>>>
>>>>> OpenRadio app listens to it, no problem. Simple Radio app, no problem.
>>>>> You can listen to it on Firefox, no problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is listening to the alternate stream that is not futbol, no
>>>>> app broadcasts it, except the station own app, which requires
>>>>> registration. Firefox also listens to it.
>>>>>
>>>>> And today I found the possible URL of that alternate stream, so that I
>>>>> may be able to listen to it on the car with VLC.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps the streaming service checks your IP.
>>>
>>> You can try yourself the urls:
>>>
>>> vlc https://emisoras.cadenaser.com/CADENASER
>>> vlc https://emisoras.cadenaser.com/CADENASER2
>>
>> Those play fine. They appear to be the same program. Let me know if one of
>> them broadcasts football.
>
> They're both broadcasting football ATM. I heard 'sevilla' and 'Ramos'.

Yep.

I succeeded in having "Open Radio" app running on the car Android Auto,
but both streams are the same, slightly different volume though. As i
was parked, I opened the radio web page on Firefox, chose the alternate
stream, and it played fine on the car speakers.

Back home I tried developer tools on Firefox, and got its URL, but it is
an impossible one:

<https://22673.live.streamtheworld.com/CADENASER_ALT1AAC.aac?csegid=REDACTED>

"REDACTED" is a very long stream that the news server thinks is binary
and refuses my post.

which I can open on a new Firefox tab and it plays fine.

On <https://emisoras.cadenaser.com/> there is no mention of this
alternate stream. There is this entry:

Mount Point /internet2A M3U XSPF

Stream Name: Cadena SER ALT2
Stream Description: Cadena SER ALT2
Content Type: audio/mpeg
Stream started: Tue, 28 Nov 2023 03:16:19 +0100
Bitrate: 75
Listeners (current): 0
Listeners (peak): 0
Genre: various
Currently playing:

There is no "Stream URL" entry as on the other stations. The M3U file
contains:

http://emisoras.cadenaser.com:8085/internet2A

which doesn't play. This: <http://emisoras.cadenaser.com/internet2A>
would make sense, but doesn't play.

AH!

This one works:

<https://22673.live.streamtheworld.com/CADENASER_ALT1AAC.aac>

But I have no guarantee the link will be the same another day. I will
put it on Open Radio, to try.

Why do they have to do things this complicated? They do not want people
to listen via internet unless we open the web page and eat the visual
commercials — which I don't, the page is so heavy on adds that the
tablet or phone is overloaded without UBlock Origin. And once I start
the play, I put FF in background.

Oh, the link always starts with an audio commercial that doesn't come
from the station itself, but from another entity. Always the same
commercial. You pause the play for some time, start it again, and the
advert plays again, spoiling the fun of the radio.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-11-29 21:16, Wally J wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>
>>> But the _main_ messaging app on Android (for SMS/MMS) does not (as far as I
>>> know but I don't know if RCS changes that equation).
>>
>> No.
>>
>> There is no need, the app only gets the messages sent by the provider to
>> that phone number. There is a password, mind: the SIM card PIN number
>> (ok, it can be blanked).
>
> Thanks for clarifying that RCS doesn't add any extra account requirement.
>
>> Things change when you want to read/write messages on the computer; they
>> can use an authorization by taking a photo with the phone of a dot
>> pattern on the computer, but if the computer has independent access, it
>> needs a login/pass.
>
> I use a computer all the time to manage my Android phone, and all I have to
> do is accept the "trust challenge" which takes on a variety of forms.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/ZK9B82gP/adb15.jpg> adb pair [IP][Port] [code]
> <https://i.postimg.cc/SRRXtvKh/adb16.jpg> Android 12 Wireless Pairing
> <https://i.postimg.cc/CLWZmJT3/adb17.jpg> Allow wireless debugging

502 Bad Gateway

on most photos.

>
> There's no need to "log into" any account to "manage" my phone on a PC.
>
> Hell, I can install and delete apps and modify settings, and everything.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/wvsbcNBz/scrcpy05.jpg> Drag APK from Windows
>
> Since none of that needs an account to be created, I have to wonder what on
> earth on an Android phone truly "requires" an account to be created.
>
> Of course, billions of apps _want_ an account - but that's a completely
> different question of wanting you to create one versus actually needing it.
>
>
>>> That means I don't need an "account" to log into but of course, the phone
>>> itself is tied to an account on T-Mobile (or Verizon, AT&T, etc.). The
>>> MMS/SMS "messaging" app goes through them, but there isn't a login, per se.
>>
>> There is a login, only that you don't notice it.
>
> Yes. Let's not get picky (we'll leave that to the iPhone people to play
> those games). Suffice to say nobody is getting cellular service for free,
> and everyone who is getting it has an account of some format.
>
> Although it's created with the credit card, in my case anyway, and there's
> no login (although if I wanted to get billing paperless their would be).

Your "login" is your phone identifying itself to your provider via its
phone number and some other codes. And at some point you have to enter
the SIM PIN.

>
>>> As for "Inventory, saving your settings, keeping track of progress", why
>>> can't you store that stuff locally on the phone itself?
>>
>> Of course you can, but the point is "across devices".
>
> Hmmm... true. But not really. If you're good at computers, you can sync to
> your own computers. Why do you need to sync to someone else's computer?

Confort, easy of use. Why should I bother putting my own computer online
on internet (it must be internet, not my LAN), with some daemon. Not
everybody can do that. And it costs money.

>
> My problem with OwnCloud is that it really doesn't run on Windows.
> So I'd have to set up a desktop as a Linux server to use it fruitfully.
>
>> In the case of "radio apps" you get the same list of favourites or saved
>> stations on your different phones, "automatically".
>>
>> Those things can be, theoretically be saved on google servers (google
>> drive) with a google account (I don't know the requirements), or at some
>> server of the application provider.
>
> I haven't set up my own server, but the way I'd approach that problem set,
> if I wanted to implement it, would be to set up my router on the net.
>
> Then I could use my own router as the OwnCloud server and accomplish what
> you're seeking. As always, it takes intelligence & effort to maintain
> privacy. I haven't expended that effort. But that's how I'd do it if I did.

An effort I refuse to undertake. And a privacy leak that is perfectly
ignorable. Thy don't get any information that I care about. And yes, I'm
not stupid, it is a conscious choice, I am very well aware of what it
entails and I choose to do it this way. They offer a service and I
accept it freely in sound mind.

>
>> And it can be absolutely innocent. You save your configuration/status,
>> and they never ever have a peek at it or use it for anything at all. It
>> is just some feature that in many apps is optional.
>>
>> Some developers only want to know how many people use the feature, or
>> how many subscribe per month. Ie, statistics of some sort.
>
> Understood that the account need can be innocent - but - you know as well
> as I do that plenty of things ask for an account that don't really need it.

If it is really really really no needed, then I can say "no". As I say
"no" to register to the radio station to listen to their streams. Life
would be far easier using their app, which demands registration, and I
say no. Radio listening has always been anonymous and I keep it.

See? There are limits. On this I see a privacy limit being crossed and I
react.

Another conscious choice taken with me free will taken in sound mind.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-11-29 18:51, Wally J wrote:
> candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
>
>>> What types of functionality _requires_ an account anyway?
>>
>> Messaging, Inventory, saving your settings, keeping track of progress.
>> At least those are the main stuff I see accounts used for.
>>
>> oh and of course buying stuff for it
>
> The only things that need accounts are stuff that requires data on the
> cloud, or compute power on the cloud - but they're few & far between.
>
> SMS/MMS messaging, as far as I know, does not require creating an account
> to log into on the phone (although, of course, it requires a carrier SIM).
>
> Certainly all the messaging that goes through servers requires an account,
> such as Apple's Messages, Facebook's WhatsApp, Google Voice, etc.
>
> Inventory? Why can't inventory be stored on the phone?
> Settings saved? What's wrong with saving them to the phone?
> Progress? Again, what's wrong with saving them to the phone.

That we want them to be the same on any of our phones and tablets, easy
and in comfort. It is a conscious choice with sound mind taken with our
free will.

We already said this. We have said this years ago, yet you keep
hammering at it.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

| Internet Radio still lets a lot to be desired...
|

I would nominate an alternate solution: I replaced
my car radio with a small storage cabinet that I made
to fit the opening. I don't have a computer in the car
and don't turn on my cellphone most of the time...
Very peaceful, and no logins. :)

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

> We already said this. We have said this years ago, yet you keep
> hammering at it.

We never "hammered" this question, which is what _requires_ an account, by
its very nature (an account being a login/password on an Internet server).

Email is one example.
Radio is not.

The list of what requires an account by its very nature is extremely short.
--
The number of accounts people have is inversely proportional to their IQ.

On 11/29/23 07:45, Newyana2 wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>
> | Internet Radio still lets a lot to be desired...
> |
>
> I would nominate an alternate solution: I replaced
> my car radio with a small storage cabinet that I made
> to fit the opening. I don't have a computer in the car
> and don't turn on my cellphone most of the time...
> Very peaceful, and no logins. :)

Is it an older car? Most current cars have a built in screen instead of
a solo radio, which would be hard/impossible to remove and would
probably destroy something.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

"candycanearter07" <no@thanks.net> wrote

| > I would nominate an alternate solution: I replaced
| > my car radio with a small storage cabinet that I made
| > to fit the opening. I don't have a computer in the car
| > and don't turn on my cellphone most of the time...
| > Very peaceful, and no logins. :)
| | Is it an older car? Most current cars have a built in screen instead of
| a solo radio, which would be hard/impossible to remove and would
| probably destroy something.

It had a screen but that didn't do much other
than control the radio. What I removed was basically
a big, blocky radio and CD player. I think I got in under
the wire. All it took was a few screws and pulling some
plugs to give me extra real estate in the dashboard.

I expect you're right about newer cars. You can
probably unplug the screen box, but if you're controlling
things like heat on a touchpad screen then you'd lose
critical functionality.

I'm hoping that I won't need to buy a new car.
The spying. The superfluous complexity. The extra
nags. I hate to think of how expensive repairs are
going to be. For example, the $42K repair for a
Rivian bumper:

https://www.theautopian.com/heres-why-that-rivian-r1t-repair-cost-42000-after-just-a-minor-fender-bender/

And how long will the sensors and computer chips
be available? I'm hoping that if I ever need another car
it will be after this Rube Goldberg mania and it won't
have a massager in the arm rest or a built-in, bossy
lady telling me that I'm not driving the proper route
to my destination. :)

On 2023-11-30 02:21, Wally J wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>
>> We already said this. We have said this years ago, yet you keep
>> hammering at it.
>
> We never "hammered" this question, which is what _requires_ an account, by
> its very nature (an account being a login/password on an Internet server).
>
> Email is one example.
> Radio is not.

We told you.

Radio does, for the feature of having the same favourites and settings
across all the devices with the same account.

It is optional. You want harmonization across devices, then register and
login. You don't want it, then don't register.

>
> The list of what requires an account by its very nature is extremely short.

No, it isn't.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-11-30 05:40, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 11/29/23 07:45, Newyana2 wrote:
>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>
>> | Internet Radio still lets a lot to be desired...
>> |
>>
>>    I would nominate an alternate solution: I replaced
>> my car radio with a small storage cabinet that I made
>> to fit the opening. I don't have a computer in the car
>> and don't turn on my cellphone most of the time...
>> Very peaceful, and no logins. :)
>
> Is it an older car? Most current cars have a built in screen instead of
> a solo radio, which would be hard/impossible to remove and would
> probably destroy something.

I think that in Europe there is some kind of standardization. I don't
know what it covers.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 11/30/23 08:40, Newyana2 wrote:
> "candycanearter07" <no@thanks.net> wrote
>
> | > I would nominate an alternate solution: I replaced
> | > my car radio with a small storage cabinet that I made
> | > to fit the opening. I don't have a computer in the car
> | > and don't turn on my cellphone most of the time...
> | > Very peaceful, and no logins. :)
> |
> | Is it an older car? Most current cars have a built in screen instead of
> | a solo radio, which would be hard/impossible to remove and would
> | probably destroy something.
>
> It had a screen but that didn't do much other
> than control the radio. What I removed was basically
> a big, blocky radio and CD player. I think I got in under
> the wire. All it took was a few screws and pulling some
> plugs to give me extra real estate in the dashboard.
>
> I expect you're right about newer cars. You can
> probably unplug the screen box, but if you're controlling
> things like heat on a touchpad screen then you'd lose
> critical functionality.
>
> I'm hoping that I won't need to buy a new car.
> The spying. The superfluous complexity. The extra
> nags. I hate to think of how expensive repairs are
> going to be. For example, the $42K repair for a
> Rivian bumper:
>
> https://www.theautopian.com/heres-why-that-rivian-r1t-repair-cost-42000-after-just-a-minor-fender-bender/
>
> And how long will the sensors and computer chips
> be available? I'm hoping that if I ever need another car
> it will be after this Rube Goldberg mania and it won't
> have a massager in the arm rest or a built-in, bossy
> lady telling me that I'm not driving the proper route
> to my destination. :)

Most industries seem to be going that way, not just cars.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

>> The list of what requires an account by its very nature is extremely short.
>
> No, it isn't.

The evidence for or against that claim is in the number of functionalities
that absolutely require an account to be created on someone else's server.

Since you can't list anything more - and neither can I - not only do we
have our answer ex post facto, but that means we don't need to delve any
further because the lack of any _is_ likely the correct answer after all.
--
Always following what marketing wants is what leads the sheep to slaughter.

"candycanearter07" <no@thanks.net> wrote

| > And how long will the sensors and computer chips
| > be available? I'm hoping that if I ever need another car
| > it will be after this Rube Goldberg mania and it won't
| > have a massager in the arm rest or a built-in, bossy
| > lady telling me that I'm not driving the proper route
| > to my destination. :)
| | Most industries seem to be going that way, not just cars.

Yes. Many people want those features. I once knew a
developer of the Android OS who told me that his dream was
to have a cellphone tht would tell him what to do, so that
he wouldn't have to relate to such things as running
out of milk and bread. Those are the people designing these
devices. And much of the public wants the pizzazz.

I'm curious what Rivian drivers pay for insurance.

On 11/30/23 7:17 AM, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 11/30/23 08:40, Newyana2 wrote:
>> "candycanearter07" <no@thanks.net> wrote
>>
>> | > I would nominate an alternate solution: I replaced
>> | > my car radio with a small storage cabinet that I made
>> | > to fit the opening. I don't have a computer in the car
>> | > and don't turn on my cellphone most of the time...
>> | > Very peaceful, and no logins. :)
>> |
>> | Is it an older car? Most current cars have a built in screen instead of
>> | a solo radio, which would be hard/impossible to remove and would
>> | probably destroy something.
>>
>> It had a screen but that didn't do much other
>> than control the radio. What I removed was basically
>> a big, blocky radio and CD player. I think I got in under
>> the wire. All it took was a few screws and pulling some
>> plugs to give me extra real estate in the dashboard.
>>
>> I expect you're right about newer cars. You can
>> probably unplug the screen box, but if you're controlling
>> things like heat on a touchpad screen then you'd lose
>> critical functionality.
>>
>> I'm hoping that I won't need to buy a new car.
>> The spying. The superfluous complexity. The extra
>> nags. I hate to think of how expensive repairs are
>> going to be. For example, the $42K repair for a
>> Rivian bumper:
>>
>> https://www.theautopian.com/heres-why-that-rivian-r1t-repair-cost-42000-after-just-a-minor-fender-bender/
>>
>> And how long will the sensors and computer chips
>> be available? I'm hoping that if I ever need another car
>> it will be after this Rube Goldberg mania and it won't
>> have a massager in the arm rest or a built-in, bossy
>> lady telling me that I'm not driving the proper route
>> to my destination. :)
>
> Most industries seem to be going that way, not just cars.

The dumbing down of the world, especially the US. How are we going to
produce enough smart people to keep it running?

--
Cheers, Bev
"Don't force it, use a bigger hammer!"
--M. Irving

On 30.11.23 19:13, Newyana2 wrote:
> "candycanearter07" <no@thanks.net> wrote
>
> | > And how long will the sensors and computer chips
> | > be available? I'm hoping that if I ever need another car
> | > it will be after this Rube Goldberg mania and it won't
> | > have a massager in the arm rest or a built-in, bossy
> | > lady telling me that I'm not driving the proper route
> | > to my destination. :)
> |
> | Most industries seem to be going that way, not just cars.
>
> Yes. Many people want those features. I once knew a
> developer of the Android OS who told me that his dream was
> to have a cellphone tht would tell him what to do, so that
> he wouldn't have to relate to such things as running
> out of milk and bread. Those are the people designing these
> devices. And much of the public wants the pizzazz.

My goodness! Is this subthread the congregation of the nations's idiots?

--
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