Hi all,

I'm going to be moving soon and after I get settled in, I would like to find an
dumb terminal that I can use with a serial connection to a raspberry pi. I'd
like any suggestions you might have for such a machine.

The only thing that I ask is that it has a serial port that doesn't require a
lot of modifications to get going, isn't too rare and therefore expensive, and
I am partial to amber screens instead of green screens.

Like I said, I'm not looking to buy anything yet but if you have any
suggestions on what to keep an eye out for, please let me know.

Jason

Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> writes:
>Hi all,
>
>I'm going to be moving soon and after I get settled in, I would like to find an
>dumb terminal that I can use with a serial connection to a raspberry pi. I'd
>like any suggestions you might have for such a machine.
>
>The only thing that I ask is that it has a serial port that doesn't require a
>lot of modifications to get going, isn't too rare and therefore expensive, and
>I am partial to amber screens instead of green screens.
>
>Like I said, I'm not looking to buy anything yet but if you have any
>suggestions on what to keep an eye out for, please let me know.
>
>Jason

Lear-Siegler ADM-3A.

Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm going to be moving soon and after I get settled in, I would like to find an
> dumb terminal that I can use with a serial connection to a raspberry pi. I'd
> like any suggestions you might have for such a machine.
>
> The only thing that I ask is that it has a serial port that doesn't require a
> lot of modifications to get going, isn't too rare and therefore expensive, and
> I am partial to amber screens instead of green screens.
>
> Like I said, I'm not looking to buy anything yet but if you have any
> suggestions on what to keep an eye out for, please let me know.

My experience is old, but most dumb terminals were pretty good toward the
end of their run. I liked the VT-220, but the IBM 3101 an HP terminals.
were OK. There should be lots of those around.

--
Pete

Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> writes:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm going to be moving soon and after I get settled in, I would like to find an
>> dumb terminal that I can use with a serial connection to a raspberry pi. I'd
>> like any suggestions you might have for such a machine.
>>
>> The only thing that I ask is that it has a serial port that doesn't require a
>> lot of modifications to get going, isn't too rare and therefore expensive, and
>> I am partial to amber screens instead of green screens.
>>
>> Like I said, I'm not looking to buy anything yet but if you have any
>> suggestions on what to keep an eye out for, please let me know.
>>
>> Jason
>
> Lear-Siegler ADM-3A.
>

That too.

--
Pete

Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Lear-Siegler ADM-3A.

I saw one of those on YouTube and they looked really neat and almost exactly
what I would like to have. I'll just need to find one that isn't rediculously
expensive.

Jason Evans wrote:

If it doesn't put out too much RF interference, a Heathkit terminal might be
nice. Put it next to a HW-101 for logging.

https://i.redd.it/hjoj2wxtcfh21.png

scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:

> Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> writes:
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I'm going to be moving soon and after I get settled in, I would like to find an
>>dumb terminal that I can use with a serial connection to a raspberry pi. I'd
>>like any suggestions you might have for such a machine.
>>
>>The only thing that I ask is that it has a serial port that doesn't require a
>>lot of modifications to get going, isn't too rare and therefore expensive, and
>>I am partial to amber screens instead of green screens.
>>
>>Like I said, I'm not looking to buy anything yet but if you have any
>>suggestions on what to keep an eye out for, please let me know.
>>
>>Jason
>
> Lear-Siegler ADM-3A.

xterm! rxvt! putty!

Can't imagine actually wanting a tube CRT in my house.

--
Dan Espen

Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>
>> Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> writes:
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>I'm going to be moving soon and after I get settled in, I would like to find an
>>>dumb terminal that I can use with a serial connection to a raspberry pi. I'd
>>>like any suggestions you might have for such a machine.
>>>
>>>The only thing that I ask is that it has a serial port that doesn't require a
>>>lot of modifications to get going, isn't too rare and therefore expensive, and
>>>I am partial to amber screens instead of green screens.
>>>
>>>Like I said, I'm not looking to buy anything yet but if you have any
>>>suggestions on what to keep an eye out for, please let me know.
>>>
>>>Jason
>>
>> Lear-Siegler ADM-3A.
>
>xterm! rxvt! putty!
>
>Can't imagine actually wanting a tube CRT in my house.

While emulators are nice (I wrote one for the Unisys T27),
I really enjoy using the real thing sometimes (I have two).

scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:

> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>
>>> Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> writes:
>>>>Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>I'm going to be moving soon and after I get settled in, I would like to find an
>>>>dumb terminal that I can use with a serial connection to a raspberry pi. I'd
>>>>like any suggestions you might have for such a machine.
>>>>
>>>>The only thing that I ask is that it has a serial port that doesn't require a
>>>>lot of modifications to get going, isn't too rare and therefore expensive, and
>>>>I am partial to amber screens instead of green screens.
>>>>
>>>>Like I said, I'm not looking to buy anything yet but if you have any
>>>>suggestions on what to keep an eye out for, please let me know.
>>>>
>>>>Jason
>>>
>>> Lear-Siegler ADM-3A.
>>
>>xterm! rxvt! putty!
>>
>>Can't imagine actually wanting a tube CRT in my house.
>
> While emulators are nice (I wrote one for the Unisys T27),
> I really enjoy using the real thing sometimes (I have two).

For very small values of enjoy I suppose.

I'm using a 27 inch flat panel with 5K resolution.

Now, that's a "real thing" I can get behind.

--
Dan Espen

Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>>
>>>> Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> writes:
>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm going to be moving soon and after I get settled in, I would like to find an
>>>>>dumb terminal that I can use with a serial connection to a raspberry pi. I'd
>>>>>like any suggestions you might have for such a machine.
>>>>>
>>>>>The only thing that I ask is that it has a serial port that doesn't require a
>>>>>lot of modifications to get going, isn't too rare and therefore expensive, and
>>>>>I am partial to amber screens instead of green screens.
>>>>>
>>>>>Like I said, I'm not looking to buy anything yet but if you have any
>>>>>suggestions on what to keep an eye out for, please let me know.
>>>>>
>>>>>Jason
>>>>
>>>> Lear-Siegler ADM-3A.
>>>
>>>xterm! rxvt! putty!
>>>
>>>Can't imagine actually wanting a tube CRT in my house.
>>
>> While emulators are nice (I wrote one for the Unisys T27),
>> I really enjoy using the real thing sometimes (I have two).
>
>For very small values of enjoy I suppose.
>
>I'm using a 27 inch flat panel with 5K resolution.
>
>Now, that's a "real thing" I can get behind.

I've a pair of 27" 1920x1200 color calibrated
flat panels in front on an articulated stand
and a 4k 32" to the right.

But when I'm running the burroughs emulator, using the real
T27 lends verisimilitude to the emulation.

On Tue, 17 May 2022 10:47:20 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>
>> Lear-Siegler ADM-3A.
>
> xterm! rxvt! putty!

minicom is offered by Linux here. Back in the late 1990s and early 2000s
I used it for things like connecting to BBS and even online banking.

> Can't imagine actually wanting a tube CRT in my house.

Yeah, takes too much space next to the PDP here. ;-)
--
Andreas

On Tue, 17 May 2022 12:57:02 +0200, Jason Evans
<jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I'm going to be moving soon and after I get settled in, I would like to find an
>dumb terminal that I can use with a serial connection to a raspberry pi. I'd
>like any suggestions you might have for such a machine.
>
>The only thing that I ask is that it has a serial port that doesn't require a
>lot of modifications to get going, isn't too rare and therefore expensive, and
>I am partial to amber screens instead of green screens.
>
>Like I said, I'm not looking to buy anything yet but if you have any
>suggestions on what to keep an eye out for, please let me know.

I believe I've got a couple of new in box ASCII terminals of some sort
or other in the attic. Many decades ago Tech Data sent them to me by
mistake and didn't want them back and I never had a use for them. If
you're interested I'll see if I can dig them out and get the details.
If you're not in North America though the shipping may be more than
they're worth. That assumes of course that the squirrels haven't been
at them.

Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> writes:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm going to be moving soon and after I get settled in, I would like to find an
> dumb terminal that I can use with a serial connection to a raspberry pi. I'd
> like any suggestions you might have for such a machine.
>
> The only thing that I ask is that it has a serial port that doesn't require a
> lot of modifications to get going, isn't too rare and therefore expensive, and
> I am partial to amber screens instead of green screens.
>
> Like I said, I'm not looking to buy anything yet but if you have any
> suggestions on what to keep an eye out for, please let me know.
>
> Jason

New serial terminals are, as far as I know, extinct. My favorite
terminals back in the stone age were the DEC VT-220 and the Zenith Z19
(also available as a kit from Heathkit as the H19). I actually have a
Z19 in my collection (no, I'm not selling it).

On those rare occasions I've needed a serial terminal in the last couple
of decades, I've used minicom on a Linux laptop.

I have no experience with the Pi, but I do with other similar boards.
Every single one has had a perfectly acceptable ssh server I've been
able to access over my home network easily right out of the box.
Several (all? Don't know enough to claim this but it wouldn't surprise
me) Pis have HDMI outputs and can talk to USB keyboards, also out of the
box. So I'm not quite sure why you want to talk to one over a serial
port.

Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:

> Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> writes:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm going to be moving soon and after I get settled in, I would like to find an
>> dumb terminal that I can use with a serial connection to a raspberry pi. I'd
>> like any suggestions you might have for such a machine.
>>
>> The only thing that I ask is that it has a serial port that doesn't require a
>> lot of modifications to get going, isn't too rare and therefore expensive, and
>> I am partial to amber screens instead of green screens.
>>
>> Like I said, I'm not looking to buy anything yet but if you have any
>> suggestions on what to keep an eye out for, please let me know.
>>
>> Jason
>
> New serial terminals are, as far as I know, extinct. My favorite
> terminals back in the stone age were the DEC VT-220 and the Zenith Z19
> (also available as a kit from Heathkit as the H19). I actually have a
> Z19 in my collection (no, I'm not selling it).
>
> On those rare occasions I've needed a serial terminal in the last couple
> of decades, I've used minicom on a Linux laptop.
>
> I have no experience with the Pi, but I do with other similar boards.
> Every single one has had a perfectly acceptable ssh server I've been
> able to access over my home network easily right out of the box.
> Several (all? Don't know enough to claim this but it wouldn't surprise
> me) Pis have HDMI outputs and can talk to USB keyboards, also out of the
> box. So I'm not quite sure why you want to talk to one over a serial
> port.

It's clearly a quest for low resolution.

I haven't ordered my first PI yet but I've been studying.
Some have bluetooth and wifi. Lots of ways to ssh
into one of them or connect a keyboard.

I assume this whole thing is for the nostalgia value. Whatever that is.

A few years back I converted over 500 vinyl albums to flac files.
So, I have 500 albums with all that artwork on the covers.
The records themselves were not in good condition.
I trashed them. Can you imagine how much nostalgia got wrecked?

Not a problem, I can press one key and listen to any record I ever had.
Right now, Dion and the Belmonts, Where or when.

If I was so inclined I could convince my music player to show me the
album cover. In 5K.

--
Dan Espen

On 2022-05-17, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
>
>> Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> writes:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm going to be moving soon and after I get settled in, I would like to find an
>>> dumb terminal that I can use with a serial connection to a raspberry pi. I'd
>>> like any suggestions you might have for such a machine.
>>>
>>> The only thing that I ask is that it has a serial port that doesn't require a
>>> lot of modifications to get going, isn't too rare and therefore expensive, and
>>> I am partial to amber screens instead of green screens.
>>>
>>> Like I said, I'm not looking to buy anything yet but if you have any
>>> suggestions on what to keep an eye out for, please let me know.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>
>> New serial terminals are, as far as I know, extinct. My favorite
>> terminals back in the stone age were the DEC VT-220 and the Zenith Z19
>> (also available as a kit from Heathkit as the H19). I actually have a
>> Z19 in my collection (no, I'm not selling it).
>>
>> On those rare occasions I've needed a serial terminal in the last couple
>> of decades, I've used minicom on a Linux laptop.
>>
>> I have no experience with the Pi, but I do with other similar boards.
>> Every single one has had a perfectly acceptable ssh server I've been
>> able to access over my home network easily right out of the box.
>> Several (all? Don't know enough to claim this but it wouldn't surprise
>> me) Pis have HDMI outputs and can talk to USB keyboards, also out of the
>> box. So I'm not quite sure why you want to talk to one over a serial
>> port.
>
> It's clearly a quest for low resolution.

"24x80 ought to be enough for anyone."

I still have a couple of H19s myself...

> I haven't ordered my first PI yet but I've been studying.
> Some have bluetooth and wifi. Lots of ways to ssh
> into one of them or connect a keyboard.
>
> I assume this whole thing is for the nostalgia value. Whatever that is.
>
> A few years back I converted over 500 vinyl albums to flac files.
> So, I have 500 albums with all that artwork on the covers.
> The records themselves were not in good condition.
> I trashed them. Can you imagine how much nostalgia got wrecked?
>
> Not a problem, I can press one key and listen to any record I ever had.
> Right now, Dion and the Belmonts, Where or when.
>
> If I was so inclined I could convince my music player to show me the
> album cover. In 5K.

That reminds me, I have to find a scanner that does 12x12,
for the really obscure albums - or the ones with lots of inserts
(e.g. Guess Who's _Artificial Paradise_).

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

On Tue, 17 May 2022 18:43:22 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
>
>> Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> writes:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm going to be moving soon and after I get settled in, I would like to find an
>>> dumb terminal that I can use with a serial connection to a raspberry pi. I'd
>>> like any suggestions you might have for such a machine.
>>>
>>> The only thing that I ask is that it has a serial port that doesn't require a
>>> lot of modifications to get going, isn't too rare and therefore expensive, and
>>> I am partial to amber screens instead of green screens.
>>>
>>> Like I said, I'm not looking to buy anything yet but if you have any
>>> suggestions on what to keep an eye out for, please let me know.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>
>> New serial terminals are, as far as I know, extinct. My favorite
>> terminals back in the stone age were the DEC VT-220 and the Zenith Z19
>> (also available as a kit from Heathkit as the H19). I actually have a
>> Z19 in my collection (no, I'm not selling it).
>>
>> On those rare occasions I've needed a serial terminal in the last couple
>> of decades, I've used minicom on a Linux laptop.
>>
>> I have no experience with the Pi, but I do with other similar boards.
>> Every single one has had a perfectly acceptable ssh server I've been
>> able to access over my home network easily right out of the box.
>> Several (all? Don't know enough to claim this but it wouldn't surprise
>> me) Pis have HDMI outputs and can talk to USB keyboards, also out of the
>> box. So I'm not quite sure why you want to talk to one over a serial
>> port.
>
>It's clearly a quest for low resolution.
>
>I haven't ordered my first PI yet but I've been studying.
>Some have bluetooth and wifi. Lots of ways to ssh
>into one of them or connect a keyboard.

Pis are fun. I have one that I normally access through RDP. But it
displays fine on a 4K TV. And one time just for the heck of it I got
Z/OS running on it. Was ungodly slow, not even good enough to play
with, but it booted and ran and I could log into it.

>I assume this whole thing is for the nostalgia value. Whatever that is.
>
>A few years back I converted over 500 vinyl albums to flac files.
>So, I have 500 albums with all that artwork on the covers.
>The records themselves were not in good condition.
>I trashed them. Can you imagine how much nostalgia got wrecked?
>
>Not a problem, I can press one key and listen to any record I ever had.
>Right now, Dion and the Belmonts, Where or when.
>
>If I was so inclined I could convince my music player to show me the
>album cover. In 5K.

Once upon a time, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> said:
>I'm going to be moving soon and after I get settled in, I would like to find an
>dumb terminal that I can use with a serial connection to a raspberry pi. I'd
>like any suggestions you might have for such a machine.

Note that the Pi serial port is not going to work directly on a classic
terminal. The Pi signalling is not RS-232 (typically +12/-12V IIRC) but
3.3V/0V. Sending more than 3.3V into a Pi serial pin will fry it.

There are pre-made Pi-to-USB serial adapters for connecting to a PC, but
I don't know if there are pre-made Pi-to-read-RS-232 adapters.

--
Chris Adams <cmadams@cmadams.net>

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> That reminds me, I have to find a scanner that does 12x12, for the
> really obscure albums - or the ones with lots of inserts (e.g. Guess
> Who's _Artificial Paradise_).

For a while, during my vinyl conversion, I'd also cut a CD with the
album content. Of course I had to create a CD label too. One of the
easiest images to obtain is the album cover.

--
Dan Espen

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

> Pis are fun. I have one that I normally access through RDP. But it
> displays fine on a 4K TV. And one time just for the heck of it I got
> Z/OS running on it. Was ungodly slow, not even good enough to play
> with, but it booted and ran and I could log into it.

I suspect z/VSE would have been a lot better.

--
Dan Espen

On 2022-05-18, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>
>> That reminds me, I have to find a scanner that does 12x12, for the
>> really obscure albums - or the ones with lots of inserts (e.g. Guess
>> Who's _Artificial Paradise_).
>
> For a while, during my vinyl conversion, I'd also cut a CD with the
> album content. Of course I had to create a CD label too. One of the
> easiest images to obtain is the album cover.

Agreed, and I snaffle them myself from various places. What isn't so
easy to find are all the extras that are sometimes included, such as
in _Artificial Paradise_. The original album came packaged like one
of those Publishers' Clearing House offers, with so much stuff that
I didn't play the album that often for the simple reason that it took
so long to get at it. I challenge you to find all that stuff on the
'net. (That's why I want a 12x12 scanner.)

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

On 2022-05-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 12:57:02 +0200, Jason Evans
><jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>
>>Hi all,
>>
> or other in the attic. Many decades ago Tech Data sent them to me by
> mistake and didn't want them back and I never had a use for them. If
> you're interested I'll see if I can dig them out and get the details.
> If you're not in North America though the shipping may be more than
> they're worth. That assumes of course that the squirrels haven't been
> at them.

I have a sudden vision of Squirrels tapping away at dumb terminals, and
wondering why they were getting no reply. Thanks for that.

NO CARRIER

--
greymausg@mail.com
Human Life will not end with a `Bang', but with a `D'oh'
Romantic Ireland is done and gone, it's with O'Leary in the grave.

On Tue, 17 May 2022 10:47:20 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

> Can't imagine actually wanting a tube CRT in my house.

One of the current hot nerd topics is the idea of putting together retro-
futuristic cyberdeck devices as secondary or project devices. Cyberdecks
are machines with tiny lcd screens with nearly full sized keyboards.

I got the idea that I would like to so something similar in the same
vein. Much of my day to day work life is in the the terminal so I thought
how about using an old machine (dumb terminal) to do real day to day
work. A raspberry pi zero-w could easily be placed into an dumb terminal
and connected directly by serial and still have access to bluetooth and
wifi. I would just need to wire up the serial connection and 5v for power
for the pi. Any work that requires more computational power than the pi
can provide is just an ssh command away.

Is it a stupid idea? Probably. However, it would be a cool piece for a
man cave and it could possibly keep one more piece of equipment out of
the landfill.

BTW, my main work setup is also 2x 27" monitors. Those are nice for my
graphical needs, so I'm not completely against anything modern.

Jason

Once upon a time, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> said:
>New serial terminals are, as far as I know, extinct. My favorite
>terminals back in the stone age were the DEC VT-220 and the Zenith Z19
>(also available as a kit from Heathkit as the H19). I actually have a
>Z19 in my collection (no, I'm not selling it).

I have a C. Itoh 101 (rebadged on the front by Intergraph) in great
condition collecting dust. I really have no use for it, or the Sun and
Alpha servers its sitting on. I don't know if I could find somebody
local interested in any of this, but I can't imagine paying to ship it.
Sooner or later, it'll all go to the recycler.

--
Chris Adams <cmadams@cmadams.net>

Well, it's a matter of personal preferences, of course, but I can think of two reasons (apart from the one the OP wrote about downthread, that of making new hardware that's deliberately retro, a bit like those "steampunk" interfaces that look like they were made in 1890):

1. The joy of keeping a "living museum piece" up and running, similar to the joy of having a vintage car in your garage and taking it out for a spin every now and then, even if you don't use it for your everyday travel.

2. Nostalgia value, if you first cut your teeth on that kind of equipment.

Personally, I can see the appeal in all these reasons but CRTs have a rather large footprint and I don't really have the desk space for one.

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:47:23 PM UTC+2, Dan Espen wrote:
> Can't imagine actually wanting a tube CRT in my house.

On Wed, 18 May 2022 00:09:54 -0000 (UTC), Chris Adams wrote:
>
> Note that the Pi serial port is not going to work directly on a classic
> terminal. The Pi signalling is not RS-232 (typically +12/-12V IIRC) but
> 3.3V/0V. Sending more than 3.3V into a Pi serial pin will fry it.
>
> There are pre-made Pi-to-USB serial adapters for connecting to a PC, but
> I don't know if there are pre-made Pi-to-read-RS-232 adapters.

Curious, somebody threw out a 2011 LED TV. One jack on the backside is
labeled RS-232. What would you do with that on a TV?

It also had some USB jacks; that I can understand.
--
Andreas