On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 18:03:53 -0700
Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote:

> Mike Easter wrote:
> > You might be able to do that w/ just using your regular LM w/ mkusb
> > installed which I know it will and use mkusb to make a Debian live w/
> > persistence.  It will complain about the target .iso not being Ub, but I
> > think I recall doing that w/ LMDE4.
>
> I booted a live LM21.1, added the mkusb .ppa and installed all of the
> assorted mkusb files, then I used that mkusb to write a LMDE5 live w/
> persistence to a USB.
>
> mkusb gives a lot of warnings because it doesn't recognize Mint as
> Ubuntu, but since it really is, it is just a 'semantics' issue.
>
> I think there are faster ways to make a live w/ persistence.
>
> Since rufus (Win) often offers to make persistence w/ some .iso/s, I
> checked on that and Rufus also offers persistence w/ LMDE5. Rufus is
> faster than mkusb.
>
> I don't have Ventoy rigged for persistence, but it would be the fastest.
>
>
> --
does rufus work on w7/32?

Nic wrote:
> does rufus work on w7/32?

The most recent rufus which works w/ w7 is 3.22. There is a rufus 4
which requires W8+.

But my advice for rufus w/ your situation was to help w/ the formatting
problem; I suspect that the rufus 'persistence' is probably just
persistent storage. I haven't actually checked that out to make a
persistent one w/ rufus and then examine the partition structure.

--
Mike Easter

Nic wrote:
> There has to be some other way to use persistent storage on a live thumb
> drive, something built in to the LMDE5 OS.

Speaking of something built in; MX has a built in USB maker which
includes persistence, but it is only for MX (or AntiX). That is, it has
a built in for making bootable live USBs which works 'for anything'
(using dd underneath) but that doesn't make the bootable distro able to
be persistent, and/or it works for MX & AntiX to make it - the bootable
live USB - optionally able to do persistence.

I have a MX stick w/ Fluxbox which is a 'frugal install' which means
there is a directory on a Win hdd which contains its 'persistent' stuff.
When the USB boots live, it finds the directory and its persistent stuff.

MX is a Debian distro.

--
Mike Easter

Mike Easter wrote:
> I have a MX stick w/ Fluxbox which is a 'frugal install' which means
> there is a directory on a Win hdd which contains its 'persistent' stuff.
>  When the USB boots live, it finds the directory and its persistent stuff.

That frugal is also the way, another way, Puppy can do its persistence.

--
Mike Easter

On 5/2/23 11:51, Mike Easter wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>>
>
> That frugal is also the way, another way, Puppy can do its persistence.
>
This seems to be the best way, it allows for larger data storage, as
opposed to the usb thumb drive which could fill up very fast with some
program installations.

Nic wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>>
>> That frugal is also the way, another way, Puppy can do its persistence.
>>
> This seems to be the best way, it allows for larger data storage, as
> opposed to the usb thumb drive which could fill up very fast with some
> program installations.

This whole business depends on what you are 'trying to do'.

On the one hand, it is /possible/ to use a live USB w/ persistence
pretty much just like you use a conventional install; but, on the other
hand, there's 'nothing wrong w/' a conventional install to hdd.

The activity I do /most/ is the kind of activity one can do w/ a
conventional install or a live w/ persistence.

The activities I do the next most is 'messing around w/' lots of
different live distro/s w/o making much in the way of changes or tweaks.
That activity can be met by a 'conventional' live boot, no
persistence, using such as Ventoy with a variety of distro/s on a USB
stick. Altho' I haven't gotten around to it yet, it is my intention to
'shift' my Ventoy + live boot no persistence of 'myriad' different
distro/s from USB to SSD which would not only be faster but could hold a
LOT more distro/s.

In the recent example of the MX frugal install; I hadn't booted it in a
while and I forgot that I had such a stick and such a dir on the hdd.

--
Mike Easter

On 5/2/23 12:45, Mike Easter wrote:
> Nic wrote:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>>
>>> That frugal is also the way, another way, Puppy can do its persistence.
>>>
>> This seems to be the best way, it allows for larger data storage, as
>> opposed to the usb thumb drive which could fill up very fast with
>> some program installations.
>
> This whole business depends on what you are 'trying to do'.
>
> On the one hand, it is /possible/ to use a live USB w/ persistence
> pretty much just like you use a conventional install; but, on the
> other hand, there's 'nothing wrong w/' a conventional install to hdd.
>
> The activity I do /most/ is the kind of activity one can do w/ a
> conventional install or a live w/ persistence.
>
> The activities I do the next most is 'messing around w/' lots of
> different live distro/s w/o making much in the way of changes or
> tweaks.  That activity can be met by a 'conventional' live boot, no
> persistence, using such as Ventoy with a variety of distro/s on a USB
> stick.  Altho' I haven't gotten around to it yet, it is my intention
> to 'shift' my Ventoy + live boot no persistence of 'myriad' different
> distro/s from USB to SSD which would not only be faster but could hold
> a LOT more distro/s.
>
> In the recent example of the MX frugal install; I hadn't booted it in
> a while and I forgot that I had such a stick and such a dir on the hdd.
>
>
The only advantage would be in using email and other web activities
(banking, medical...) and retaining the passwords and other logging
credentials, other than that there would be no other advantage to
persistence.

Nic wrote:
> The only advantage would be in using email and other web activities
> (banking, medical...) and retaining the passwords and other logging
> credentials, other than that there would be no other advantage to
> persistence.

Well, I don't have a 'picture' of your 'conditions' -- environment.

My environment is that I do ALL of my online activity at *home*, I have
no need (almost no need) for portability. My other 'feature' that makes
me /different/ from almost everyone else in the world is that I don't
(normally) carry a phone.

So everything I do online is either done by a desktop computer w/ a full
sized keyboard and screen, or sometimes on a laptop because I'm at a
different station in the house which station uses a laptop instead of a
desktop. 5 stations mixed laptop desktop.

There are currently (theoretically) 7 operational computers in the
house, but practically speaking I only use 3-5 of them, generally 2 at a
time. Occasionally that is a W7; in the past I used to include an occsl
XP, but I haven't done that in a while. Almost never a W10 which is on
a laptop at a station which usually boots MX.

I *never* use a smart phone for communication; my smart phone doesn't
even have a plan and I use it for other stuff than comm. Once in a blue
moon I do some kind of traveling which necessitates a phone for which I
have an ancient dumb non-touch flip phone used only for voice; I don't
text on it.

My home phone connectivity is using a bunch (more than half a dozen
around the house and garage) of previously landline phones corded and
cordless which connect via VoIP and I use googlevoice for sending and
receiving text messages via fullsized keyboard & screen at such as the
same station I'm typing this msg.

When I'm 'out and about' and not out of town or out of state, no phone.
I'm not interested in phone comm text or voice during those times. Out
of state or out of town I need some phone voice comm. I also use my
smart phone via wifi when I'm out of state or town, but not for online,
for which I use a laptop via wifi.

--
Mike Easter

On 5/2/23 14:22, Mike Easter wrote:
> Nic wrote:
>> The only advantage would be in using email and other web activities
>> (banking, medical...) and retaining the passwords and other logging
>> credentials, other than that there would be no other advantage to
>> persistence.
>
> Well, I don't have a 'picture' of your 'conditions' -- environment.
>
> My environment is that I do ALL of my online activity at *home*, I
> have no need (almost no need) for portability.  My other 'feature'
> that makes me /different/ from almost everyone else in the world is
> that I don't (normally) carry a phone.
>
> So everything I do online is either done by a desktop computer w/ a
> full sized keyboard and screen, or sometimes on a laptop because I'm
> at a different station in the house which station uses a laptop
> instead of a desktop.  5 stations mixed laptop desktop.
>
> There are currently (theoretically) 7 operational computers in the
> house, but practically speaking I only use 3-5 of them, generally 2 at
> a time.  Occasionally that is a W7; in the past I used to include an
> occsl XP, but I haven't done that in a while.  Almost never a W10
> which is on a laptop at a station which usually boots MX.
>
> I *never* use a smart phone for communication; my smart phone doesn't
> even have a plan and I use it for other stuff than comm. Once in a
> blue moon I do some kind of traveling which necessitates a phone for
> which I have an ancient dumb non-touch flip phone used only for voice;
> I don't text on it.
>
> My home phone connectivity is using a bunch (more than half a dozen
> around the house and garage) of previously landline phones corded and
> cordless which connect via VoIP and I use googlevoice for sending and
> receiving text messages via fullsized keyboard & screen at such as the
> same station I'm typing this msg.
>
> When I'm 'out and about' and not out of town or out of state, no
> phone. I'm not interested in phone comm text or voice during those
> times.  Out of state or out of town I need some phone voice comm. I
> also use my smart phone via wifi when I'm out of state or town, but
> not for online, for which I use a laptop via wifi.
>
It is interesting that you mention having a smart phone with no phone
plan, I have wondered how such a phone could be used for some of the
apps, for example: There are some exercise machines -stationary bicycle
that has there data compiled on a smart phone, does this mean that you
do not need a phone plan to use the phone for that purpose? As for
internet, the phone could be used in some free internet zone ,
(McDonalds,Panera Bread, ) to d/l the apps.

Nic wrote:
> There are some exercise machines -stationary bicycle that has there data
> compiled on a smart phone, does this mean that you do not need a phone
> plan to use the phone for that purpose?

I think a great many of the phone apps assume that everyone has a smart
phone which is continuously connected to the internet via a phone plan.

However, a facility /could/ do things by wifi if it so chose.

--
Mike Easter

Mike Easter wrote:
> Nic wrote:
>> There are some exercise machines -stationary bicycle that has there
>> data compiled on a smart phone, does this mean that you do not
>> need a phone plan to use the phone for that purpose?
>
> I think a great many of the phone apps assume that everyone has a
> smart phone which is continuously connected to the internet via a
> phone plan.
>
> However, a facility /could/ do things by wifi if it so chose.
>
Or, it could bluetooth it; range ~30' for conventional, the BT site says:

> The effective, reliable range between Bluetooth devices is anywhere
> from more than a kilometer down to less than a meter.

--
Mike Easter

On 02-05-2023 21:19, Mike Easter wrote:
> Nic wrote:
>> There are some exercise machines -stationary bicycle that has there
>> data compiled on a smart phone, does this mean that you do not need a
>> phone plan to use the phone for that purpose?
>
> I think a great many of the phone apps assume that everyone has a smart
> phone which is continuously connected to the internet via a phone plan.
>
> However, a facility /could/ do things by wifi if it so chose.
>
My smart phone does have a sim-only no data plan which only has to be
topped-up once a year with at least (and for me, at most) € 2,50.
Internet access is by WiFi, at home, by friends and in public nets. All
apps I use can be used without continuous internet access. Saves (a lot
of) money compared to my young(ish) family members.

On 5/2/23 15:19, Mike Easter wrote:
> Nic wrote:
>> There are some exercise machines -stationary bicycle that has there
>> data compiled on a smart phone, does this mean that you do not need a
>> phone plan to use the phone for that purpose?
>
> I think a great many of the phone apps assume that everyone has a
> smart phone which is continuously connected to the internet via a
> phone plan.
>
> However, a facility /could/ do things by wifi if it so chose.
>
What is your definition of 'facility'?

jjb wrote:
> My smart phone does have a sim-only no data plan which only has to be
> topped-up once a year with at least (and for me, at most) € 2,50.
> Internet access is by WiFi, at home, by friends and in public nets.  All
> apps I use can be used without continuous internet access.  Saves (a lot
> of) money compared to my young(ish) family members.

My ancient 'feature' (not smart) non-touch flip phone's plan which I
'never' use costs me about $4/mo paid yearly. It has usages incl data
which I never use and which accumulates.

--
Mike Easter

Nic wrote:
> What is your definition of 'facility'?

I was thinking of your exercise equipment example being in a 'facility';
but now that you raise the question I realize that you might be
referring to a piece of home equipment w/ such a feature.

In any case, I'm certainly not a good source of info about phone apps
for smart phones; the only ones I know about are the ones I've loaded
into my smart phone over my home wifi.

That 'phone's' wifi and bluetooth are 'plenty' for the things I do w/
it, including phone comm on it when I'm visiting out of state and
connected via my friends' wifi. I even have a bluetooth earpiece/mic
which can be used w/ either the smart or the dumb phone.

I use its wifi to upload its pics to storage and also to download music
CD collections I've ripped w/ my desktop so I can use it like an 'iPod'.
I've used its bluetooth to act as a remote for watching 'TV'/media on
my RPi running Kodi.

--
Mike Easter

On 5/2/23 18:00, Mike Easter wrote:
> Nic wrote:
>> What is your definition of 'facility'?
>
> I was thinking of your exercise equipment example being in a
> 'facility'; but now that you raise the question I realize that you
> might be referring to a piece of home equipment w/ such a feature.
>
> In any case, I'm certainly not a good source of info about phone apps
> for smart phones; the only ones I know about are the ones I've loaded
> into my smart phone over my home wifi.
>
> That 'phone's' wifi and bluetooth are 'plenty' for the things I do w/
> it, including phone comm on it when I'm visiting out of state and
> connected via my friends' wifi.  I even have a bluetooth earpiece/mic
> which can be used w/ either the smart or the dumb phone.
>
> I use its wifi to upload its pics to storage and also to download
> music CD collections I've ripped w/ my desktop so I can use it like an
> 'iPod'.  I've used its bluetooth to act as a remote for watching
> 'TV'/media on my RPi running Kodi.
>
Do you think there is anything to all this health concern for wifi?

Nic wrote:
> Do you think there is anything to all this health concern for wifi?

No, but like a lot of other things, there is an exaggeration of 'truth'
or science or physiology. It is about RF radio frequency 'health risks'.

In the case of wifi, personally my biggest exposure is from my proximity
to my router for hours per day.

For someone else, their biggest exposure is to their phone next to their
head 'all the time'.

Then there is the larger picture of electromagnetic radiation and
health. I get cosmic and solar radiation when I lie out sun bathing
which damages and injures my skin and increases my risks of skin cancer.

IMO I consider my risks but I don't 'worry about it'. When I'm out
walking in the sunshine I wear a hat and sunglasses, for comfort not
protection.

--
Mike Easter

On 5/2/23 20:36, Mike Easter wrote:
> Nic wrote:
>> Do you think there is anything to all this health concern for wifi?
>
> No, but like a lot of other things, there is an exaggeration of
> 'truth' or science or physiology.  It is about RF radio frequency
> 'health risks'.
>
> In the case of wifi, personally my biggest exposure is from my
> proximity to my router for hours per day.
>
> For someone else, their biggest exposure is to their phone next to
> their head 'all the time'.
>
> Then there is the larger picture of electromagnetic radiation and
> health.  I get cosmic and solar radiation when I lie out sun bathing
> which damages and injures my skin and increases my risks of skin cancer.
>
> IMO I consider my risks but I don't 'worry about it'.  When I'm out
> walking in the sunshine I wear a hat and sunglasses, for comfort not
> protection.
>
And yet medical experts say that older people are deficient in vitamin d
(the sunshine vitamin). I guess that depending on ones latitude some
deliberate exposure should be in order. Don't forget to let us know how
you make out with installing Ventoy to a ssd and that persistence

Nic wrote:
> Don't forget to let us know how you make out with installing Ventoy to a
> ssd and that persistence

I don't expect any trouble w/ the Ventoy + ssd; I suspect that Ventoy
'persistence' is only 'persistent storage' which is of no value to me.
Well, it might have some value for something, but not much. For my
purposes, the kind of persistence I want is to be able to make changes
in the system which persist on reboot.

That requires a partition structure which is consistent w/ the process.
The way Ventoy works for providing a means to be able to boot multiple
different linux .iso/s simply by copying the .iso to the USB (or ssd
etc) does not provide such a sub-structure; all it can do is make some
space for storage.

--
Mike Easter

On 5/3/23 08:57, Mike Easter wrote:
> Nic wrote:
>> Don't forget to let us know how you make out with installing Ventoy
>> to a ssd and that persistence
>
> I don't expect any trouble w/ the Ventoy + ssd; I suspect that Ventoy
> 'persistence' is only 'persistent storage' which is of no value to me.
> Well, it might have some value for something, but not much.  For my
> purposes, the kind of persistence I want is to be able to make changes
> in the system which persist on reboot.
>
> That requires a partition structure which is consistent w/ the
> process. The way Ventoy works for providing a means to be able to boot
> multiple different linux .iso/s simply by copying the .iso to the USB
> (or ssd etc) does not provide such a sub-structure; all it can do is
> make some space for storage.
>
What if you copied a 'Swap File Partition" to Ventoy?? Would that be
available to all the OS's on your V-Drive

Nic wrote:
> What if you copied a 'Swap File Partition" to Ventoy?? Would that be
> available to all the OS's on your V-Drive

The subject of swap files is a different subject. For my 'everyday'
activity, I'm not interested in swap file. I'm generally interested in
running things in ram.

If I were doing 'big stuff' like compiling I would be doing it w/ a
spinning hdd or an ssd and not things like live off USB and persistence.

And, I don't have equipment w/ 'tons' of ram; everything I can do I do
w/ 8G max. I don't even like to use VMs because I don't have 'spare'
ram to be running two OSes at the same time.

--
Mike Easter