Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> On 3/8/2022 8:49 AM, Rob wrote:
>> J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 at 10:14:35, Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote (my
>>> responses usually FOLLOW):
>>>> J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>>>> I collect my email on one device (this computer), and manually move
>>>>> emails into folders occasionally. (Actually, I do have some
>>>>> autorouteing.) I do backups. For me, the touted advantages of IMAP are
>>>>> zero.
>>>>
>>>> It means that when you are away, you are not able to access your mail.
>>>> Of course when you never leave the home for e.g. a holiday, that does
>>>> not matter. But lots of people do.
>>>
>>> I take this computer with me, and continue to collect by POP when away;
>>> I don't notice any difference (to email; news varies slightly).
>>
>> You go on holiday taking your entire archive of previously sent and
>> received messages with you???
>> Don't forget to pack your backup drive as well!
>
> The individuals in question, use USB sticks for portable
> backup. Until they get to their home base and do something else.

I am more worried about their device and/or backup media getting stolen
and all their private data ending up in the wrong hands.

Joerg Lorenz wrote:

> Paranoia and using an Android?

ASSESSMENT:
The iKooks only know the propaganda Apple has _fed_ them to believe.
And yet, Apple's R&D is the lowest of all high tech (highest marketing).
As a result, Apple iOS is the most bug ridden common consumer software.

FACT:
Android security holes are far more expensive than iOS because there are so
many iOS zero-day holes, hackers even stopped accepting them for testing!
*Stop sending us Apple bugs, we have enough already*
<https://www.cyberscoop.com/ios-zero-day-zerodium-high-supply/>

Worse, while Android is now updated forever, no matter how old the device,
Apple summarily drops support for their devices after only a few years.
*Most of Android is now updated forever with no EOL in sight*
<https://www.droid-life.com/2022/03/01/google-system-update-march-improvements/>

Worse than that, when iOS needs to update, Apple has to create an entirely
new code stream for all users just to fix even a _single_ line of code!

Earlier this year, researchers were frustrated by Apple not fixing huge bugs
so they published the vulnerabilities and then it _still_ took Apple weeks
to scramble to create an entirely new iOS release which left billions of
users with _known_ (and hence actively exploited!) holes for a long time!
*Why Apple should provide standalone updates for native iOS apps*
<https://9to5mac.com/2022/01/21/heres-why-apple-should-provide-standalone-updates-for-native-ios-apps/>

No other common consumer operating system uses that primitive monolithic
method, and, in fact, it's _why_ Apple iOS code keeps zero-day bugs longer
(*even many months _after_ they've been reported to Apple!*).

That would _never_ happen with Android since Google can update _all_ Android
phones that are connected to the Internet completely independently of the
carrier and the OEM of that phone (they can even update the _firmware_).

Andy Burns and I have been testing this for weeks, by the way:
*Does Google really update Android forever with no EOL in sight?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/_ZUiLVtLbsg>

And yet, Apple codes more than a zero-day bug a month on average per year.
In fact, iOS alone often averages two zero-day holes a month.

Which, let's remind people of the facts, Apple _never_ finds in its QA.
In fact, Apple has at even re-released vulnerabilities, in later releases.

That's how atrocious Apple's QA really is.

Even the VP of Software Engineering, Craig Federighi said so.
(His internal email decrying QA was published & we discussed it at length.)

Apple's strategy is basically propaganda.
Claim they have privacy, without ever providing it.

Don't believe me?
Look at what the Tor Project says about privacy with iOS devices.
*Can I run Tor Browser on an iOS device?*
<https://support.torproject.org/tormobile/tormobile-3/>
"Apple requires browsers on iOS to use something called Webkit,
which prevents Onion Browser from having the same privacy
protections as Tor Browser."

In summary, the only people who believe iOS is more private than Android,
are the iKooks (who only know what Apple has fed them to believe).
--
The problem with low IQ people like Joerg isn't that they're incredibly
stupid, but that they believe everything that they are fed by marketing.

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Am 07.03.22 um 23:34 schrieb J. P. Gilliver (John):
> > On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 at 12:02:47, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote
> > (my responses usually FOLLOW):
> >> On 3/6/2022 8:20 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> >>
> >>> Regardless of whether you use IMAP or POP3, if you do regular backups,
> >>> it is ALSO on the backup media. If you don't do regular backups to
> >>> eternal media, you're playing with fire, and not just for that reason.
> >>> So as far as I'm concerned, that's not a big advantage of IMAP.
> >>> I use IMAP, but to me there's no real advantage to using it.
> >>
> >> OMG, I don't think anyone still uses POP3. The advantages of IMAP are
> >> enormous.
> >
> > I collect my email on one device (this computer), and manually move
> > emails into folders occasionally. (Actually, I do have some
> > autorouteing.) I do backups. For me, the touted advantages of IMAP are
> > zero.
>
> You do not understand the concept of IMAP and obviously the value of
> your time and the security of your mails has a value of zero for you.
>
> Poor John!

Poor Joerg! Hasn't a clue that e-mail is just information/data. Guess
how all that *other* information/data is kept secure? IMAP is doing
diddly squat for that!

On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 22:34:09 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 at 12:02:47, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote
>(my responses usually FOLLOW):
>>On 3/6/2022 8:20 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>
>>> Regardless of whether you use IMAP or POP3, if you do regular backups,
>>> it is ALSO on the backup media. If you don't do regular backups to
>>> eternal media, you're playing with fire, and not just for that reason.
>>> So as far as I'm concerned, that's not a big advantage of IMAP.
>>> I use IMAP, but to me there's no real advantage to using it.
>>
>>OMG, I don't think anyone still uses POP3. The advantages of IMAP are
>>enormous.
>
>I collect my email on one device (this computer),

Same for me, except when I travel and read it on my phone (I almost
never travel anymore; I think those days are behind me).

>and manually move
>emails into folders occasionally. (Actually, I do have some
>autorouteing.) I do backups. For me, the touted advantages of IMAP are
>zero.

Same for me, although that's what I use.

--
The real, original Ken Blake, not some other newcomer

On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 10:14:35 +0100, Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote:

>J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> I collect my email on one device (this computer), and manually move
>> emails into folders occasionally. (Actually, I do have some
>> autorouteing.) I do backups. For me, the touted advantages of IMAP are
>> zero.
>
>It means that when you are away, you are not able to access your mail.
>Of course when you never leave the home for e.g. a holiday, that does
>not matter.

Why not? When I used to travel (always on a holiday for the last 29
years) I always wanted to and always did read my mail, most recently
on my smart phone.

> But lots of people do.

--
The real, original Ken Blake, not some other newcomer

On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 11:01:33 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 at 10:14:35, Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote (my
>responses usually FOLLOW):
>>J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>> I collect my email on one device (this computer), and manually move
>>> emails into folders occasionally. (Actually, I do have some
>>> autorouteing.) I do backups. For me, the touted advantages of IMAP are
>>> zero.
>>
>>It means that when you are away, you are not able to access your mail.
>>Of course when you never leave the home for e.g. a holiday, that does
>>not matter. But lots of people do.
>
>I take this computer with me,

It must be a laptop. Mine is a giant very heavy full tower. No way
would I want to or could I take it with me on a plane.

> and continue to collect by POP when away;
>I don't notice any difference (to email; news varies slightly).

--
The real, original Ken Blake, not some other newcomer

On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 16:26:14 +0100, Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote:

>Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>> On 3/8/2022 8:49 AM, Rob wrote:
>>> J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 at 10:14:35, Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote (my
>>>> responses usually FOLLOW):
>>>>> J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> I collect my email on one device (this computer), and manually move
>>>>>> emails into folders occasionally. (Actually, I do have some
>>>>>> autorouteing.) I do backups. For me, the touted advantages of IMAP are
>>>>>> zero.
>>>>>
>>>>> It means that when you are away, you are not able to access your mail.
>>>>> Of course when you never leave the home for e.g. a holiday, that does
>>>>> not matter. But lots of people do.
>>>>
>>>> I take this computer with me, and continue to collect by POP when away;
>>>> I don't notice any difference (to email; news varies slightly).
>>>
>>> You go on holiday taking your entire archive of previously sent and
>>> received messages with you???
>>> Don't forget to pack your backup drive as well!
>>
>> The individuals in question, use USB sticks for portable
>> backup. Until they get to their home base and do something else.
>
>I am more worried about their device and/or backup media getting stolen
>and all their private data ending up in the wrong hands.

Yes, I've known more than one person who has had his laptop stolen
when traveling.

--
The real, original Ken Blake, not some other newcomer

On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 03:08:04 -0700, ...w�񧱤� <winstonmvp@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Ken Blake wrote:
>>> Which provider is it that only provides IMAP?
>>
>>
>> Godaddy. I *think* it only provides IMAP but it was long ago enough
>> that I might be misremembering.
>>
>> By the way, lest you think I meant my ISP, they're my e-mail provider,
>> not an ISP.
>
>>
>
>Afaik, requires a GoDaddy hosted and/or registered Domain or Workspace
>enabled GoDaddy Account.

Yes. I have a GoDaddy hosted and registered Domain.

>-
>Lowest plan ~$6/mo(Essentials) though initial creation is discounted to
>~$2/mo. for first 12 months then renews at the ~$6/mo. rate.

Yes, it costs a few dollars, but I've been happy with it.

>Ever try to sell or been solicited to sell yours.

Nope.

>I've been contacted twice in the last 3 years by a commercial business
>via a domain broker. The last offered a 4 figure premium price for one
>of my .com domains(have had it for years, way back when Outlook Premium
>offered domains before requiring migration to GoDaddy).
>- GoDaddy rates its value(4 figures) but much less than the offer.
>- I countered by adding an extra zero to their offer.
>Never heard back!
>
>FYI - both Workspace and Essentials provide IMAP and POP3.
>Not sure if still available, at one time 'free' GoDaddy email accounts
>were available but limited to only POP3.

--
The real, original Ken Blake, not some other newcomer

Am 08.03.22 um 18:00 schrieb Ken Blake:
> On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 16:26:14 +0100, Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote:
>> I am more worried about their device and/or backup media getting stolen
>> and all their private data ending up in the wrong hands.
>
>
> Yes, I've known more than one person who has had his laptop stolen
> when traveling.

Tell that our flying Dutchman ...
*ROTFLSTC*

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

In article <t082kh.16j0.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank
Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> > > I collect my email on one device (this computer), and manually move
> > > emails into folders occasionally. (Actually, I do have some
> > > autorouteing.) I do backups. For me, the touted advantages of IMAP are
> > > zero.
> >
> > You do not understand the concept of IMAP and obviously the value of
> > your time and the security of your mails has a value of zero for you.
> >
> > Poor John!
>
> Poor Joerg! Hasn't a clue that e-mail is just information/data. Guess
> how all that *other* information/data is kept secure? IMAP is doing
> diddly squat for that!

actually, it is doing quite a bit. imap requires login credentials to
access email, whereas the local hd/ssd does not unless it's encrypted,
which at least for windows, is not that common. backup drives (usb
stick, external hd/ssd) are also generally not encrypted. if the laptop
and/or external media is lost or stolen, everything is exposed.

On 3/6/2022 9:01 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 03/06/2022 08:31 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>
>>> > Andy Burns wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Thunderbird certainly supports oAuth
>>> >
>>> > Thunderbird indeed supports OAuth2 for IMAP accounts. But does it as
>>> > well for POP accounts?
>>>
>>> yes it does, I'm using it with TB v91, I have no idea how old a
>>> version you have to go back to where POP doesn't support oAuth
>>
>>    Thanks for the confirmation. (Not that I need or want OAuth2.)
>>
>>> > That was not the case on older versions (and my
>>> > version is old (60.9.0), because I don't want to update).
>>>
>>> Those who don't update are just storing-up future pain :-P
>>
>>    Sofar, not updating caused me *less* pain. *If* I need new
>> *functionality*, I'll have another look. But I can well do without TB's
>> slew of gratuitous UI changes and other (non-)'improvements'. YMMV/YMWV.
>
> I did regular updates until I got tired of losing extensions and
> capabilities that were valuable to me.  Like decluttering, you cry at
> first and then forget -- the only one that I really remember and which
> really hurt was losing the ability to show a .jpg as the background of
> the message pane (I had a texture rather than an actual photo), which
> made the text stand out more clearly than a plain solid background.
>

The one that annoys me is that the "allow HTML temp" add-on for
thunderbird has not worked right for the last several thunderbird updates.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <t082kh.16j0.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank
> Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > > I collect my email on one device (this computer), and manually move
> > > > emails into folders occasionally. (Actually, I do have some
> > > > autorouteing.) I do backups. For me, the touted advantages of IMAP are
> > > > zero.
> > >
> > > You do not understand the concept of IMAP and obviously the value of
> > > your time and the security of your mails has a value of zero for you.
> > >
> > > Poor John!
> >
> > Poor Joerg! Hasn't a clue that e-mail is just information/data. Guess
> > how all that *other* information/data is kept secure? IMAP is doing
> > diddly squat for that!
>
> actually, it is doing quite a bit. imap requires login credentials to
> access email, whereas the local hd/ssd does not unless it's encrypted,
> which at least for windows, is not that common. backup drives (usb
> stick, external hd/ssd) are also generally not encrypted. if the laptop
> and/or external media is lost or stolen, everything is exposed.

<whoosh!>

Clue-by-four: "*other*" ... "that".

Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 11:01:33 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
> <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 at 10:14:35, Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote (my
> >responses usually FOLLOW):
> >>J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> >>> I collect my email on one device (this computer), and manually move
> >>> emails into folders occasionally. (Actually, I do have some
> >>> autorouteing.) I do backups. For me, the touted advantages of IMAP are
> >>> zero.
> >>
> >>It means that when you are away, you are not able to access your mail.
> >>Of course when you never leave the home for e.g. a holiday, that does
> >>not matter. But lots of people do.
> >
> >I take this computer with me,
>
>
> It must be a laptop. Mine is a giant very heavy full tower. No way
> would I want to or could I take it with me on a plane.

Actually, an acquaintance *did* take his tower PC on a plane (from NL
to AU). No, it wasn't his carry-on luggage! :-) Granted it was a long
time ago - 2004 IIRC - and for a very long stay, but it was still quite
special and funny, especially because I was already using laptops since
the late(r) 90's. Can't remember if he took the keyboard. He didn't take
the monitor.

But of course he used IMAP on it, not that inferior, outdated,
obsolete, crappy, malfunctioning, insecure POS called 'POP3'!

> > and continue to collect by POP when away;
> >I don't notice any difference (to email; news varies slightly).

Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 16:26:14 +0100, Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote:
>
>>Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 3/8/2022 8:49 AM, Rob wrote:
>>>> J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 at 10:14:35, Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote (my
>>>>> responses usually FOLLOW):
>>>>>> J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> I collect my email on one device (this computer), and manually move
>>>>>>> emails into folders occasionally. (Actually, I do have some
>>>>>>> autorouteing.) I do backups. For me, the touted advantages of IMAP are
>>>>>>> zero.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It means that when you are away, you are not able to access your mail.
>>>>>> Of course when you never leave the home for e.g. a holiday, that does
>>>>>> not matter. But lots of people do.
>>>>>
>>>>> I take this computer with me, and continue to collect by POP when away;
>>>>> I don't notice any difference (to email; news varies slightly).
>>>>
>>>> You go on holiday taking your entire archive of previously sent and
>>>> received messages with you???
>>>> Don't forget to pack your backup drive as well!
>>>
>>> The individuals in question, use USB sticks for portable
>>> backup. Until they get to their home base and do something else.
>>
>>I am more worried about their device and/or backup media getting stolen
>>and all their private data ending up in the wrong hands.
>
>
> Yes, I've known more than one person who has had his laptop stolen
> when traveling.

In that case you would be happy when the computer did not contain
a copy of all e-mail, but this resides safely on the IMAP server,
protected by a password.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10 Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 22:34:09 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
> <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> >On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 at 12:02:47, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote
> >(my responses usually FOLLOW):
> >>On 3/6/2022 8:20 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> >>
> >>> Regardless of whether you use IMAP or POP3, if you do regular backups,
> >>> it is ALSO on the backup media. If you don't do regular backups to
> >>> eternal media, you're playing with fire, and not just for that reason.
> >>> So as far as I'm concerned, that's not a big advantage of IMAP.
> >>> I use IMAP, but to me there's no real advantage to using it.
> >>
> >>OMG, I don't think anyone still uses POP3. The advantages of IMAP are
> >>enormous.
> >
> >I collect my email on one device (this computer),

> Same for me, except when I travel and read it on my phone (I almost
> never travel anymore; I think those days are behind me).

Same here. I keep my e-mails locally. I do use IMAP when I go out so I
can download my e-mails later at home.

> >and manually move
> >emails into folders occasionally. (Actually, I do have some
> >autorouteing.) I do backups. For me, the touted advantages of IMAP are
> >zero.

> Same for me, although that's what I use.

Yep!
--
Happy busy? international women's day! Weird/Odd night for me. Kept waking up to pee and poop (thrice so far). :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Am 08.03.22 um 21:26 schrieb Rob:
> Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 16:26:14 +0100, Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 3/8/2022 8:49 AM, Rob wrote:
>>>>> J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 at 10:14:35, Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote (my
>>>>>> responses usually FOLLOW):
>>>>>>> J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I collect my email on one device (this computer), and manually move
>>>>>>>> emails into folders occasionally. (Actually, I do have some
>>>>>>>> autorouteing.) I do backups. For me, the touted advantages of IMAP are
>>>>>>>> zero.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It means that when you are away, you are not able to access your mail.
>>>>>>> Of course when you never leave the home for e.g. a holiday, that does
>>>>>>> not matter. But lots of people do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I take this computer with me, and continue to collect by POP when away;
>>>>>> I don't notice any difference (to email; news varies slightly).
>>>>>
>>>>> You go on holiday taking your entire archive of previously sent and
>>>>> received messages with you???
>>>>> Don't forget to pack your backup drive as well!
>>>>
>>>> The individuals in question, use USB sticks for portable
>>>> backup. Until they get to their home base and do something else.
>>>
>>> I am more worried about their device and/or backup media getting stolen
>>> and all their private data ending up in the wrong hands.
>>
>>
>> Yes, I've known more than one person who has had his laptop stolen
>> when traveling.
>
> In that case you would be happy when the computer did not contain
> a copy of all e-mail, but this resides safely on the IMAP server,
> protected by a password.

*SIC*

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 08.03.22 um 18:32 schrieb nospam:
> In article <t082kh.16j0.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank
> Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> I collect my email on one device (this computer), and manually move
>>>> emails into folders occasionally. (Actually, I do have some
>>>> autorouteing.) I do backups. For me, the touted advantages of IMAP are
>>>> zero.
>>>
>>> You do not understand the concept of IMAP and obviously the value of
>>> your time and the security of your mails has a value of zero for you.
>>>
>>> Poor John!
>>
>> Poor Joerg! Hasn't a clue that e-mail is just information/data. Guess
>> how all that *other* information/data is kept secure? IMAP is doing
>> diddly squat for that!
>
> actually, it is doing quite a bit. imap requires login credentials to
> access email, whereas the local hd/ssd does not unless it's encrypted,
> which at least for windows, is not that common. backup drives (usb
> stick, external hd/ssd) are also generally not encrypted. if the laptop
> and/or external media is lost or stolen, everything is exposed.

The way he reacted let me doubt that he will understand what you say.
There is no safer place for emails and personal data than on a
professionally managed server.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 08.03.22 um 21:35 schrieb Ant:
> In alt.comp.os.windows-10 Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 22:34:09 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
>> <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 at 12:02:47, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote
>>> (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>>>> On 3/6/2022 8:20 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Regardless of whether you use IMAP or POP3, if you do regular backups,
>>>>> it is ALSO on the backup media. If you don't do regular backups to
>>>>> eternal media, you're playing with fire, and not just for that reason.
>>>>> So as far as I'm concerned, that's not a big advantage of IMAP.
>>>>> I use IMAP, but to me there's no real advantage to using it.
>>>>
>>>> OMG, I don't think anyone still uses POP3. The advantages of IMAP are
>>>> enormous.
>>>
>>> I collect my email on one device (this computer),
>
>
>> Same for me, except when I travel and read it on my phone (I almost
>> never travel anymore; I think those days are behind me).
>
> Same here. I keep my e-mails locally. I do use IMAP when I go out so I
> can download my e-mails later at home.

What?

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 2022-03-08 16:01, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> WE don't. Most people don't. It is a feature we do want.
>
> I'm well aware of what Carlos claims is true, and I do believe him.
> a. Most people are incredibly lazy, as is Carlos by his own admission
> b. *That's why MARKETING can lead them by the nose, as a sheep to
> slaughter*
> c. Most people hand _your_ kids's contacts & yours to those MARKETING
> groups

Wrong.

I have done my assessment and took the decision to do what I do.
Intentionally.

Don't resort to insults, Arlen.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> I have done my assessment and took the decision to do what I do.
> Intentionally.

Did you _ask_ each of your contacts if _they_ wanted you to upload their
private information to the web, where it _will_ be hacked, rest assured?

If the answer is "no", then it's _rude_ to upload their contacts to the net.

Besides, what app actually requires the contacts to be uploaded anyway?
--
If you're intelligent, you do _not_ do what MARKETING wants you to do.

On 2022-03-08 23:55, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> I have done my assessment and took the decision to do what I do.
>> Intentionally.
>
> Did you _ask_ each of your contacts if _they_ wanted you to upload their
> private information to the web, where it _will_ be hacked, rest assured?
>
> If the answer is "no", then it's _rude_ to upload their contacts to the
> net.
>
> Besides, what app actually requires the contacts to be uploaded anyway?

I live in Europe. The data protection laws here prohibit that, so it is
not happening.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

"NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote

| > imap can easily download email to your computer.
| | Can it? How do you configure it to do that? I thought that if you received
| your email by IMAP it never left the server, apart from when the client
| downloads a transient copy of it to read, which was erased when you closed
| the mail app.
| | What is the big advantage of IMAP over POP?
|

IMAP is designed for webmail. POP3 is designed for
reading email in client software. Each defaults to being
what makes most sense for those uses. Originally all email
was downloaded to a client and then deleted from the
server. People were not allowed to have much space on
the server. Then with webmail and targetted advertising
the idea was to be able to read your email in a browser. In
order to act like a real software client, the email needed
to be stored online. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to look
at yesterday's email.

If you use client software it shouldn't matter. I think
both can be deleted from the server, and a client will
download locally. IMAP offers nothing that's needed for
"real" email. Folders and such are in the client, not on
the server.

I like POP3 just because I'm used to it
and have a superstition about IMAP not being truly deletable.
(Which gmail is not.) Sometimes it also makes sense to
set up different programs on different computers. For
instance, if I set up email on a laptop I set it up to leave
it on the server, so that I always have a copy downloaded
to my main PC. If I ever decided to read email on a cellphone
I'd also set that to leave it on the server. While on my main
PC I set it to delete the email from the server. I'm not "mobile"
in the sense of having no physical base. My data are all based
on my home computer and backed up from there. I don't use
any web-based software. So I neither want nor need data
stored online.

Some people are just so used to webmail and cellphones
that, for them, all email is online and most computing is online.
For many of those people online storage makes the most sense,
because they'll read it from different locations. And in the case
of business email they may not be allowed to delete it from the
server.

On 09/03/2022 at 13:36, Mayayana wrote:
> "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote
>
> | > imap can easily download email to your computer.
> |
> | Can it? How do you configure it to do that? I thought that if you received
> | your email by IMAP it never left the server, apart from when the client
> | downloads a transient copy of it to read, which was erased when you closed
> | the mail app.
> |
> | What is the big advantage of IMAP over POP?
> |
>
> IMAP is designed for webmail. POP3 is designed for
> reading email in client software. Each defaults to being
> what makes most sense for those uses. Originally all email
> was downloaded to a client and then deleted from the
> server. People were not allowed to have much space on
> the server. Then with webmail and targetted advertising
> the idea was to be able to read your email in a browser. In
> order to act like a real software client, the email needed
> to be stored online. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to look
> at yesterday's email.
>
> If you use client software it shouldn't matter. I think
> both can be deleted from the server, and a client will
> download locally. IMAP offers nothing that's needed for
> "real" email. Folders and such are in the client, not on
> the server.
>
> I like POP3 just because I'm used to it
> and have a superstition about IMAP not being truly deletable.
> (Which gmail is not.) Sometimes it also makes sense to
> set up different programs on different computers. For
> instance, if I set up email on a laptop I set it up to leave
> it on the server, so that I always have a copy downloaded
> to my main PC. If I ever decided to read email on a cellphone
> I'd also set that to leave it on the server. While on my main
> PC I set it to delete the email from the server. I'm not "mobile"
> in the sense of having no physical base. My data are all based
> on my home computer and backed up from there. I don't use
> any web-based software. So I neither want nor need data
> stored online.
>
> Some people are just so used to webmail and cellphones
> that, for them, all email is online and most computing is online.
> For many of those people online storage makes the most sense,
> because they'll read it from different locations. And in the case
> of business email they may not be allowed to delete it from the
> server.
>
>

I don't know. I use IMAP for multiple accounts from multiple platforms
(Google, Microsoft, BT) on my iPhone, iPad, and Windows laptop
(Thunderbird). Any changes I make on one, e.g., add a mail folder, move
or delete an email, are reflected in the others. Equally, read/unread
mail status is identical on all platforms. So, just from my experience,
I'd say IMAP was very much designed for reading and manipulating email
in client software.

--
Wilf

On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 08:36:56 -0500
"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote
>
> | > imap can easily download email to your computer.
> |
> | Can it? How do you configure it to do that? I thought that if you
> received | your email by IMAP it never left the server, apart from
> when the client | downloads a transient copy of it to read, which was
> erased when you closed | the mail app.
> |
> | What is the big advantage of IMAP over POP?
> |
>
> IMAP is designed for webmail. POP3 is designed for
> reading email in client software. Each defaults to being
> what makes most sense for those uses. Originally all email
> was downloaded to a client and then deleted from the
> server. People were not allowed to have much space on
> the server. Then with webmail and targetted advertising
> the idea was to be able to read your email in a browser. In
> order to act like a real software client, the email needed
> to be stored online. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to look
> at yesterday's email.
>
> If you use client software it shouldn't matter. I think
> both can be deleted from the server, and a client will
> download locally. IMAP offers nothing that's needed for
> "real" email. Folders and such are in the client, not on
> the server.
>
> I like POP3 just because I'm used to it
> and have a superstition about IMAP not being truly deletable.
> (Which gmail is not.) Sometimes it also makes sense to
> set up different programs on different computers. For
> instance, if I set up email on a laptop I set it up to leave
> it on the server, so that I always have a copy downloaded
> to my main PC. If I ever decided to read email on a cellphone
> I'd also set that to leave it on the server. While on my main
> PC I set it to delete the email from the server. I'm not "mobile"
> in the sense of having no physical base. My data are all based
> on my home computer and backed up from there. I don't use
> any web-based software. So I neither want nor need data
> stored online.
>
> Some people are just so used to webmail and cellphones
> that, for them, all email is online and most computing is online.
> For many of those people online storage makes the most sense,
> because they'll read it from different locations. And in the case
> of business email they may not be allowed to delete it from the
> server.
>
>

I have an IMAP Email account with ProtonMail that cost fifty dollars a
year. It's encrypted, and ProtonMail claims they can't even read it.

I also have a POP3 Email account with AT&T, and like you I like the
POP3 for daily use.

I can't imagine anyone stupid enough to have an Email account with
Google.

In article <t0aaif$u46$1@dont-email.me>, Mayayana
<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> | What is the big advantage of IMAP over POP?
> |
>
> IMAP is designed for webmail.

imap began life in the 1980s, long before webmail was even an idea, let
alone an actual thing, designed to go beyond the limitations of pop.

webmail came much later, and is nothing more than an implementation of
a mail client in a browser.

> POP3 is designed for
> reading email in client software.

pop was designed for only one client, which made sense long ago.

things have changed since then. these days, people have multiple
devices and want to access the same content from any of them, which
means pop is very much the wrong choice.

> Each defaults to being
> what makes most sense for those uses. Originally all email
> was downloaded to a client and then deleted from the
> server. People were not allowed to have much space on
> the server.

true.

> Then with webmail and targetted advertising
> the idea was to be able to read your email in a browser. In
> order to act like a real software client, the email needed
> to be stored online.

imap has nothing to do with webmail, nor does webmail mean advertising.

webmail is simply an email client implemented in a browser, which like
everything, has advantages and disadvantages.

> Otherwise you wouldn't be able to look
> at yesterday's email.

that's something many people do, and not just from yesterday either.

> If you use client software it shouldn't matter. I think
> both can be deleted from the server, and a client will
> download locally.

both imap and pop can do that.

> IMAP offers nothing that's needed for
> "real" email. Folders and such are in the client, not on
> the server.

imap offers a lot of things for 'real' email, including folders, which
*are* on the server. imap folders can also be created locally, but
that's not often done.

pop does not support folders, however, they might be part of an email
client.

> I like POP3 just because I'm used to it
> and have a superstition about IMAP not being truly deletable.

that is definitely a superstition.

email can easily be 'truly deleted' with both pop and imap. it has to
be, or the servers would eventually fill to capacity.

> (Which gmail is not.)

false. it's possible to 'truly delete' email with gmail, which is just
one email provider and not what defines imap or pop.

keep in mind that gmail can also be accessed via pop and imap using an
email app, in addition to a browser.

> Sometimes it also makes sense to
> set up different programs on different computers. For
> instance, if I set up email on a laptop I set it up to leave
> it on the server, so that I always have a copy downloaded
> to my main PC.

exactly the situation for which imap was designed!

> If I ever decided to read email on a cellphone
> I'd also set that to leave it on the server. While on my main
> PC I set it to delete the email from the server. I'm not "mobile"
> in the sense of having no physical base. My data are all based
> on my home computer and backed up from there. I don't use
> any web-based software. So I neither want nor need data
> stored online.

web-based software is not the only reason for storing content online.

> Some people are just so used to webmail and cellphones
> that, for them, all email is online and most computing is online.

most computing is online, not just email and not just phones either.

> For many of those people online storage makes the most sense,
> because they'll read it from different locations. And in the case
> of business email they may not be allowed to delete it from the
> server.

it doesn't matter if they delete it, since businesses will archive it
upstream.